2014 NFL Regular Season, Week 7

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I've been on the refs myself a bit, but the average fan is taking it to whole other levels - conspiracy theories, it's the ref's fault they lost the game, etc. pretty sad.

A whole new level? Was there ever an innocent time where fans never complained about the refs? Who never thought that refs were bought off or whatever?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I just hope we can find a way to lock him up as I think he among a ton of our stars : Julius Thomas, DT, Orlando Franklin, Von Miller, Chris Harris and I think Rahim Moore. Plus Welker is finished his contract too so not sure what happens after this year. Hope they can lock Miller, Harris and the Thomas up long term but tend to doubt it might only get 2 of those five resigned. I guess we should enjoy it while it lasts.

From what I've been able to gather reading through capology stuff, it's likely they'll be able to keep 4 of the 5. The Broncos hold an option year on Miller, they should be able to ink him to a deal as they have some leverage there.

With all of that said, this team is built for Manning. If he calls it a career, who knows what happens.

Welker is gone. They have the second round pick they traded up for who will be ready next year. Hell, Welker is already more of a bit part of this offense than what he was last year.

[Matthean]

NFC West might be a big enough bloodbath that only one gets in. It will be interesting to see who that is. So far if the playoffs started today, Seattle and San Fran would be out.

[NobodyHere]

I don't think anyone will ever punt to the Rams again, that was probably my favorite punt return of all time.

I wonder what was going through the punter's mind as this play was developing.

[Matthean]

I honestly don't understand how that many players on the kicking lose track of the ball.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by TroyF

From what I've been able to gather reading through capology stuff, it's likely they'll be able to keep 4 of the 5. The Broncos hold an option year on Miller, they should be able to ink him to a deal as they have some leverage there.

With all of that said, this team is built for Manning. If he calls it a career, who knows what happens.

Welker is gone. They have the second round pick they traded up for who will be ready next year. Hell, Welker is already more of a bit part of this offense than what he was last year.

Latimer? I think he's got potential, but he's not a Welker replacement. He's Thomas insurance at this point. (Its OK though, slot guys are pretty fungible and cheap.)

You guys really think Moore is worth a big deal? I'm well aware how the media will tear down a DB for things that aren't his fault (saw it with McCourty for 2 years), but I've never gotten the impression Moore is actually enough above replacement level to be worth the $5m/year Jacksonville or Oakland will pay him.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Matthean

I honestly don't understand how that many players on the kicking lose track of the ball.

This.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Who the hell is throwing rocks? Hell, it's one of the best stories of the year. But they are incredibly reliant on one player who is not a QB right now. Anytime you have that situation as a team, it's scary. It is an asset you want to protect as much as you can.

6-1 starts are wonderful. They are a hell of a lot better when they end in 13-3 seasons with your key guys healthy for the playoffs. 400+ carries is dangerous. Not many guys have that many carries and can hold up. Murray has not exactly been the beacon of health either. I think what they are doing is incredibly risky. I can raise the concern now or wait until he starts to wear down and have his yards per carry dwindle and say "I thought this would happen"

Do you think he'll break or he'll break down? I think everyone agrees giving an RB 500+ carries is a recipe for disaster eventually, but I've never seen anything that indicates the RB loses effectiveness that year.

Unless the Cowboys are dumb enough to give him a big contract they don't, and shouldn't, care about his long term well being. Ride him until he drops then plug in Joseph Randle for 90% of the effectiveness. (And that's coming from someone who has semi-seriously argued the Pats should sit Gronk vs weaker teams even when healthy)

[BishopMVP]

(Apologies for the multiple posts - on a phone and can't consolidate.)

BTW, only saw the end of Seattle/STL in passing, but did the refs give a convincing rationale for the ending? Sure looked like Seattle *probably* recovered the fumble, and definitely to the point it should've been reviewed. Dislike Pete Carroll, but he was right to be flipping out there IMO unless there was something I missed.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Matthean

I honestly don't understand how that many players on the kicking lose track of the ball.

Try running by a 250 pound guy who's fighting you, while knowing its possible to get blown up from either side at any time - you're not gonna slow up and try to predict where that balls going. Heck, take the best centerfielders in MLB and ask them to track a ball that's coming over their shoulder while running full speed. You really can't (the Willie Mays and Jim Edmonds catches are celebrated for a reason), so in general why wouldn't you follow the crowd? Great play design, and sneakily great catch by Bailey.

[stevew]

People do remember the Hester/Knox fake PR TD that got calldd back for a phantom hold, right? It was exactly the same as the Bailey one and was largely covered on Sportsdigs back in the day.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Try running by a 250 pound guy who's fighting you, while knowing its possible to get blown up from either side at any time - you're not gonna slow up and try to predict where that balls going. Heck, take the best centerfielders in MLB and ask them to track a ball that's coming over their shoulder while running full speed. You really can't (the Willie Mays and Jim Edmonds catches are celebrated for a reason), so in general why wouldn't you follow the crowd? Great play design, and sneakily great catch by Bailey.

Maybe because they run this play hundreds of times and without issue. If it was so easy to disguise, then maybe more teams would be trying it. Maybe because the kicker could simply tell the team where he is likely to kick the ball.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Latimer? I think he's got potential, but he's not a Welker replacement. He's Thomas insurance at this point. (Its OK though, slot guys are pretty fungible and cheap.)

You guys really think Moore is worth a big deal? I'm well aware how the media will tear down a DB for things that aren't his fault (saw it with McCourty for 2 years), but I've never gotten the impression Moore is actually enough above replacement level to be worth the $5m/year Jacksonville or Oakland will pay him.

Agree on Lattimer. He has looked fantastic in the preseason. I think he is the likely replacement for DT as I don't think they can sign him. I expect them to resign Franklin, Julius Thomas , Miller, and I hope Chris Harris. Raheem Moore big deal I don't know he is worth that and we may draft someone else.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Maybe because they run this play hundreds of times and without issue. If it was so easy to disguise, then maybe more teams would be trying it. Maybe because the kicker could simply tell the team where he is likely to kick the ball.

It's disguised all the time, even in college and I would guess High School - particularly for punts that come down near the end zone. The returner will waive for a fair catch and drift to one side while the ball comes down in somewhere else and bounces into the end zone.

I don't think a punter can guarantee that if he's meant to kick it to the left, that he will be able to do so. He may have to change the trajectory to miss a block attempt, shank it, whatever. If you're covering a punt, you certainly can't run down there staring up in the air at the ball. All you've got to go on is the returner.

This case was a little special in that the punt was short enough and one of the guys who covers the gunner was fast enough and a reliable enough returner to get to the ball and make something of it.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Matthean

NFC West might be a big enough bloodbath that only one gets in. It will be interesting to see who that is. So far if the playoffs started today, Seattle and San Fran would be out.

I would be very happy about that.

[albionmoonlight]

If true, this sort of encapsulates why Manning is (one of) the best ever AND why he annoys so many people: Manning's Keep-Away Celebration Was Planned, Practiced, Therefore Corny

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If true, this sort of encapsulates why Manning is (one of) the best ever AND why he annoys so many people: Manning's Keep-Away Celebration Was Planned, Practiced, Therefore Corny

He's like the whitest guy in the room, he knows it, and keeps taking advantage of it.

[gstelmack]

Agreed with Rivera - the Keuchly ejection (missed it at the time, finally found the replay) was BS. No idea why the official was touching him in the first place, Keuchly had no reason to suspect that was an official touching him, and there was no punch or shove, just an arm spin to get the hands off him as he's trying to walk away from the pile.

[Sun Tzu]

Whew. I'd be hard pressed to remember a time when the Niners had so many starters out. 9 Starters missed last night's game by my count, including literally more than half of the defense.

CB - Tremaine Brock
CB - Chris Culliver
ILB - Navorro Bowman - All Pro
ILB - Patrick Willis - All Pro
OLB - Aldon Smith - All Pro
DT - Glenn Dorsey
OG - Mike Iupati - All Pro
OT - Anthony Davis - Pro Bowl Alternate
C - Daniel Kilgore

With that said, if we're going to lose to anyone with half of our starters hurt, I'd want it to be the Broncos, in Denver, in front of a national audience, when Manning is gunning for the all-time TD record.

Recipe for a blowout much?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Whew. I'd be hard pressed to remember a time when the Niners had so many starters out. 9 Starters missed last night's game by my count, including literally more than half of the defense.

CB - Tremaine Brock
CB - Chris Culliver
ILB - Navorro Bowman - All Pro
ILB - Patrick Willis - All Pro
OLB - Aldon Smith - All Pro
DT - Glenn Dorsey
OG - Mike Iupati - All Pro
OT - Anthony Davis - Pro Bowl Alternate
C - Daniel Kilgore

With that said, if we're going to lose to anyone with half of our starters hurt, I'd want it to be the Broncos, in Denver, in front of a national audience, when Manning is gunning for the all-time TD record.

Recipe for a blowout much?

Isn't that when a good coach should be able to rally the troops and at least make the game respectable?

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Isn't that when a good coach should be able to rally the troops and at least make the game respectable?

...

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Isn't that when a good coach should be able to rally the troops and at least make the game respectable?

I think his point is that if you are going to have so many injuries nail your starting roster, that the best time to have it is in the game you were probably going to lose anyway. That way you arent; risking the Raiders game or somesuch.

[Sun Tzu]

Yeah.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

...

Not at all, it was an honest question. After there being reports of Harbaugh losing the locker room, I think it's fair to wonder if what happened last night is a symptom of that. If Harbaugh behind-the-scenes is anything like Harbaugh on the sidelines, I could see that act wearing thin on the players.

While many of the players out there were backups, they were still NFL backups and they simply look lost even though the backups are watching the same film as the starters. Yeah, they'll be a step slower but last night looked like an NAIA team vs. Alabama.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Pretty solid article on Steelers, directed to the group of fans who think the solution is always bringing back Cowher

http://pit.scout.com/story/1470510-d...all-over-again

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If true, this sort of encapsulates why Manning is (one of) the best ever AND why he annoys so many people: Manning's Keep-Away Celebration Was Planned, Practiced, Therefore Corny

I thought planned / choreographed celebrations were penalties?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I thought planned / choreographed celebrations were penalties?

It's not like Peyton is a muslim who wanted to pray.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Yeah, they'll be a step slower but last night looked like an NAIA team vs. Alabama.

It was basically the equivalent, starters-wise, of one team playing the game like it's the pre-season (mostly backups) against one team playing the game like it's their biggest game of the year (pretty much right on).

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Pretty solid article on Steelers, directed to the group of fans who think the solution is always bringing back Cowher

http://pit.scout.com/story/1470510-d...all-over-again

Nice read, tahnks for the linkie

[Abe Sargent]

Let's go....um....Texans? I need to think about that one though.

[Abe Sargent]

Yeah Houston, get that score.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Bobble

If you're covering a punt, you certainly can't run down there staring up in the air at the ball. All you've got to go on is the returner.

This. The punt coverage team never looks up for the ball. They hold their blocks for 1 or 2 seconds then take off off running. Now the way you defend trickeration like this is to have a disciplined coverage team. You don't take off running to the returner, each player has a specific lane they are responsible for, and if they tried a trick return like this with most of the punt block team on one side and the ball comes down on the other, it simply won't work if everyone is doing their job. In fact, it'd be a good way to get an inexperienced return man blowed the fuck up.

What happened here is that most of SEA's punt coverage team tried to cheat (or they're badly coached) and closed down before the returner got the ball, thus you have a wide open field on the other side. If the players on the backside are in their lanes, they'd see the ball come down on the other side. Here, they were already solely focused on the returner and running towards him. I'll bet Fisher saw that this was common for Seattle's punt team and decided to break this gem out against them.

In fact, this is probably pretty common overall. There's a reason why punt returners seem to no be able to help themselves, and take off running to the left or right after getting the ball. It's to try to round the corner and get a big return because of coverage players converging on the returner prematurely, leaving one side completely open.

[Abe Sargent]

Houston has just lost this game.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Houston has just lost this game.

And now the pick by the Steelers defense puts paid to those words.

[cuervo72]

The hell, Texans? I step into the kitchen to unload/load the dishwasher for not more than five minutes and you completely shit the bed.

[cartman]

I think Fitzpatrick needs to shave that ridiculous beard before the Texans can be taken seriously.

[cuervo72]

Worked for Orton.

[cuervo72]

Come on, you have to go for that.

[cartman]

That onside kick was on the ground a LONG time

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I don't think anyone will ever punt to the Rams again, that was probably my favorite punt return of all time.

I wonder what was going through the punter's mind as this play was developing.

I totally asked why teams don't do this back on the last page of the week one thread.. Awesome to see my theory proven plausible.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by sabotai

This. The punt coverage team never looks up for the ball. They hold their blocks for 1 or 2 seconds then take off off running. Now the way you defend trickeration like this is to have a disciplined coverage team. You don't take off running to the returner, each player has a specific lane they are responsible for, and if they tried a trick return like this with most of the punt block team on one side and the ball comes down on the other, it simply won't work if everyone is doing their job. In fact, it'd be a good way to get an inexperienced return man blowed the fuck up.

What happened here is that most of SEA's punt coverage team tried to cheat (or they're badly coached) and closed down before the returner got the ball, thus you have a wide open field on the other side. If the players on the backside are in their lanes, they'd see the ball come down on the other side. Here, they were already solely focused on the returner and running towards him. I'll bet Fisher saw that this was common for Seattle's punt team and decided to break this gem out against them.

In fact, this is probably pretty common overall. There's a reason why punt returners seem to no be able to help themselves, and take off running to the left or right after getting the ball. It's to try to round the corner and get a big return because of coverage players converging on the returner prematurely, leaving one side completely open.

It's interesting that after their special teams were so brilliant against Dallas, they were the cause of them losing to St. Louis.

[Warhammer]

If the Rams could hold a lead, they'd be dangerous.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by cartman

I think Fitzpatrick needs to shave that ridiculous beard before the Texans can be taken seriously.

Or they get a better QB.

[bhlloy]

I love that a news station out up a photo of Gary Peyton when discussing the all time TD record. Just imagining the communication breakdown that must have led to that happening makes me chuckle.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I love that a news station out up a photo of Gary Peyton when discussing the all time TD record. Just imagining the communication breakdown that must have led to that happening makes me chuckle.

News director: Hey Gary, we need that video of Peyton like we talked about! Quick!
Gary (the switchboard operator): Which one??
New director: GARY! PEYTON! NOW!

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I totally asked why teams don't do this back on the last page of the week one thread.. Awesome to see my theory proven plausible.

I still think people are overreacting to the play design a little much, and ignoring what an awesome play Stedman Bailey made. That's not an easy ball to track and catch.

[Julio Riddols]

Yeah, the execution and strategy was different to what I had proposed, but I think teams should put 2 returners back though.

He did make a hell of a play there, and I wonder how long they practiced it before deciding to try it in a game.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Yeah, the execution and strategy was different to what I had proposed, but I think teams should put 2 returners back though.

He did make a hell of a play there, and I wonder how long they practiced it before deciding to try it in a game.

I wonder if its something Bailey/Austin had practiced together at West Virginia and talked the coach into trying it.

I know a number of HS's use 2 returners, (and opposing punt coverage teams compensate by going after both until its "obvious" which guy its going to)I just wonder if it would leave you too vulnerable to fakes at the NFL level.