Alright Boyzzzz Here We Go!: DDS Basketball Edition

[JPhillips]

I noticed a huge dropoff of talent from the pre draft to the first generated draft. By the time I got to pick six in the second round all the players left were scouted by the draft folks as 1.

The stats also don't match up well for players drafted late in the lottery. I picked up a SF from Arizona who averaged 26+ points, 12+ rebounds and 7+ assists and was rated three stars from the draft folks and four by my scouts. There were a number of other players with great "college" stats that weren't rated very highly.

[Brian Swartz]

The arrows showing if a trade will go through or not seem to be almost worthless in indicating if it actually will

Any examples of this? If the arrows show the trade is in your favor, they will usually reject it, vice versa for the opposite situation. No arrows are a fairly even trade.

I set to sim until the All Star break and turned notify for injuries off. I was stopped and so I assumed it was a trade offer. The email was lit up and when I checked there was no new mail. I deleted all the email and started again with notify injuries off. Same thing happened, but this time it was clear that the email was empty.

Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug?

Recently discovered bug that is being investigated. Ditto for the talent level in small leagues.

As far as college stats on draftees -- isn't this the way it should be? It isn't like Redick and Morrison(great college stats) are generally considered to be future Hall-of-Famers. Great college stats don't mean great pro.

[bselig]

Typically the AI will reject a trade where the arrows are in their favor due to bad contracts, not giving up the best player or a young player with a lot potential, rarely due to 'weakness' at a position. It seems like the arrows indicate 'value' in the strictess sense of how the player ratings add up, whereas there is a checklist of things that can nix a trade regardless of what the value says. Most of my proposals end up being rejected despite the arrows being in the AI's favor, usually due to the AI thinking I'm not giving up a comparable piece to the best piece they're giving up. Which is perfectly fine and makes sense, but it makes the arrows of limited utility

[JPhillips]

I guess my problem with the college stats and the draft is that there are too many college studs and at least for my generated drafts nobody more than four stars in the pros. I haven't seen any pros equal to the top seven or eight players in the pre draft. I haven't played a lot of seasons, but the projected pro talent is very low. In my last draft by pick four there was no one that the draft or my scouts ranked higher than a three.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Sorry about that. It always bugged the hell out of me and I guess I assumed someone had to have brought it up. I think a notification in the results window would be much better and seemingly simple to do.

I'd also love a notification when offers are made so that I can see how much interest there is in each free agent.

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

That's more than fair, stevew.



Devil's advocate here: how do you think this would play out, in terms of realism. GM calls a player's agent: "Hey, could you tell me what offers you've got in right now -- after all I don't want to overpay?"

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Brian: I don't want to see amounts, but it's fair to see interest. We already get to see the best offer and it's perfectly reasonable to think that teams knw who's after most free agents. I can find out most offers and a general sense of price from ESPN.

Originally Posted by John Galt

One other thing I would love - have the player's desired contract automatically loaded into the offer screen. It is such a pain to enter the dollars, years, and % increase every week for every player you are interested in. And when I'm doing player extensions, I almost always accept the player's desire, so it is so much easier if it is automatically entered.

Originally Posted by stevew

Yes, great idea +++

Here is what I have posted over at DDS:PB board:
I have come across a couple small things/ issues that I will pass onto you :

1) Draft is great only complaint is the pop-up screen when a player is selected right after the "Let's go to the commissioner" pop-up should have the little x in the upper right or a close button something so if you don't want to keep reading you can do a quick scan and close it. I found that took away slightly when watching the draft and I do watch the drafts pick by pik taking me sometimes 2 hours, but it is fun.

2) This is something I believe mentioned before with TPB 05 and also TCB, when looking at the player stats screen either at halftime or at the end of the game as well as any time you go back to the boxscore. It would be nice to have their primarly position so if they are a PG, listed right after their name. It makes it a little easier to see where teams are scoring against you inside with C and PFs or on the perimeter with the Gs. I guess next version you might put in somekind of shooting chart or map with all the shots made mapped out which would give a visual of a teams shooting tendencie.

3) This one I just noticed when I tried to go and sign a guy who was a free agent. I guess you can't click on a free agent players name in the free agent list and get their players card to come up. The only work around I found was to go to the search palyer feature and search for the player than double click on his name to get the player card.

4) I noticed that in-game when you check the 3 pointer strategy on at least late in the game , but it appeared like at anytimes teams were not following that much. I lost two games where I was down by 3 points and had the ball with over 20 seconds left but my team held the ball to the last shot, though I didn't have the hold for last shot checked and than took two point shots in close post ups to centers as opposed to kicking it out for a game tying 3 pointer? So maybe the strategies should be looked at especially the important ones like last shot, 3 pointers (the intentional foul works fine it seems).

5) I think it would be great on the contract screen for offering a contract to player when you hit minimum button it makes the minmum for the number of years you specify over to the right or lets you click each box for ayear and click minimum to fill the minimum or max for that year.

6) Last thing for now is during free agency we really need some screen to show us players who have received pending offers, i thnk. So a guy has recieved offers from "X" number of teams and the best offer is "X". Otherwise free agency seems kind of blind and pointless without some kind of info screen as it goes on.

7) I noticed a display bug when doing a kind of double switch of players. For example, I have a setup in the submatrix to have my starting point guard ("PGX ") move over to the small forward ( at the 2:00 minute mark of a quarter and bring in another player ("PGY") at the starting PG position.I see listed on the ingame lineup the first strating PG listed twice in both the PG and SF position. That stays until that player comes out of the game. So the game doesn't tarck a palyer moving over and changing positons in game in the lineup screen correctly.

[TroyF]

Is there anyway to change the owner attributes when you've started a game? The default ones are way of base for some teams. I know you can randomize, but can you tweak the defaults?

[Brian Swartz]

You should be able to do this by editing the default.dat file(recommend backing it up first) with any database program.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

You should be able to do this by editing the default.dat file(recommend backing it up first) with any database program.

I can do that, but it'd be nice if there would be a way to do it from the in game screens.

No biggie. Restarting a league and randomizing now.

[John Galt]

There is a bug in mid-level and low exceptions that is a pain. When I offer the mid-level exception and it is turned down, I lose the ability to offer it to another player.

I'll try to post other suggestions and bugs later today.

[Brian Swartz]

On the exceptions, we have heard that reported but it is working fine on our end repeatedly. If you have are able to repeat this and could send a save into Gary(from the point in time where you are unable to offer the exception) then we can see why that's happening.

[Young Drachma]

How far -- like, how many seasons -- have folks managed to get through? Or are we still too buggy to proceed? I want to buy it, but not if I have to wait a few more days to play. Then I'll just wait until the kinks are worked out.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

On the exceptions, we have heard that reported but it is working fine on our end repeatedly. If you have are able to repeat this and could send a save into Gary(from the point in time where you are unable to offer the exception) then we can see why that's happening.

I don't have a save file (and in the season I'm currently playing, Telfair accepted the exception so I didn't get to test it out). In the prior season, I was slightly under the cap, offered the mid-level to Billups who rejected it (he ended up signing a big deal with the Pistons). However, the exception was grayed out for the rest of the free agency period.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by John Galt

I don't have a save file (and in the season I'm currently playing, Telfair accepted the exception so I didn't get to test it out). In the prior season, I was slightly under the cap, offered the mid-level to Billups who rejected it (he ended up signing a big deal with the Pistons). However, the exception was grayed out for the rest of the free agency period.

What exactly was greyed out? The button to offer the mid level or the amount of year 1 of the contract? I tried the same experiment with Billups (except that I was Detroit) and every time I offered it he turned it down but I could continue to offer it - and when he signed with another team I could still offer the exception to someone else.

If you are seeing the button itself greyed out - I've yet to see that. If you are talking about the first year contract box being greyed out that is by design. It simply means you cannot change the amount of the 1st year of the exception not that you cannot offer it. So if you could clarify what you are seeing for me I would appreciate it.

[John Galt]

Other things I have noticed:

1) My draft files have had a pretty low talent level. By that I mean that by midway through the first round, there are only 1 or 2 star players and they are all pretty indistinguishable. There are usually no more than 3 of the 4 or 5 star players (one year, I had only 1). I've only done drafts total, so it could be small sample size, but it appears the first season's draft (with pre-loaded players) is much more talent rich than subsequent years.

2) As to the thing Coffee Warlord and I noticed, I realized the problem isn't that you can't sort by position. The problem is that you either 1) can't just look at one position; or 2) execute a double-sort where you could sort first by potential and then by position. The result is that I can never find out who the best available PG's are, for example, from just viewing my player evaluation screens.

3) It would be nice if the developmental league draft would run in the background if we don't want to watch it.

4) Little interface issues that make a big difference:

a) I've already mentioned the automatically filling in the player requested contract. That should extend to coaches as well.

b) On the startup screens "FirstName" and "LastName" should be highlighted so that a person types over them automatically (so you don't have to first highlight with the mouse and then begin typing). This is something that is true in other places as well (like number ratings for the GM).

c) There are inconsistencies between the button labels and the labels in your GM's office (ie "staff" v. "personnel" and "team roster" v. "players") even though the options bring you to the same screens.

d) I would prefer the advance arrow would allow you to bypass importing rookie files and scheduling files (either allow the user to have this option or make it a default). Having to go into your email is just an unecessary step each year.

5) I have my first CTD. It occurred at the start of the season when I tried to sign David Wesley from the free agent pool because Raja Bell was still injured. The error was something like "type mismatch," but I forgot to write it down.

6) The trade AI still has some major problems, IMO.

a) This is something I posted about last year, and the problem still screws up the trade AI in a major way, IMO. This is an example of one of the biggest problems. I needed a PG half way through the season. Dallas had Jason Terry on the bench and on its trade block. So, I offer, Tyron Lue, Raja Bell, and a first round pick (maybe another player as well). The quality arrow says the trade favors Dallas. Raja had the same number of years on his contract as Terry (4 I think) and Lue only had 2 years on his. By doing this trade, Dallas would be shedding salary in EVERY year of the deal and would be gaining quality (according to the arrows). And Terry is on the trading block, so they should be amenable to unloading his contract. However, the AI rejects the trade because Dallas won't take on either Bell or Lue's contract. That doesn't make any sense when we are taking on the "worse" contract. This AI problem makes impossible for many (if not most) of the trades in the real world to occur in the game. It also makes it almost impossible to play teams like the T-Wolves for a few years even if you are willing to absorb other ugly contracts in return.

b) The trade AI is too forgiving in other areas. I managed to turn the Hawks into an Eastern Confernce finalist (lost in game 7 to the Pistons) in their first season. I did this entirely through trades. I ended up with a starting lineup of Yao, Boozer, Adam Morrison, R. Bell, and Diaw (the AI started Diaw at PG where he did well). I had Shaun Livingston, Brandon Roy, Matt Harpring, Reggie Evans, and a couple of other decent players on the bench. I did all this without trading any first round draft picks.

7) It would be nice to sort transactions by types (ie trades) on the news screen.

8) Ticket prices seem kind of random. Am I supposed to know what to do here? I'd like an option for this to be automatic.

9) The "opponents" drawer seems unnecessary since it just takes you to the team roster screen.

That's it for now. I think I'll end up buying, but this is my last day of the trial, so I wanted to make a few notes now before I forget.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

What exactly was greyed out? The button to offer the mid level or the amount of year 1 of the contract? I tried the same experiment with Billups (except that I was Detroit) and every time I offered it he turned it down but I could continue to offer it - and when he signed with another team I could still offer the exception to someone else.

If you are seeing the button itself greyed out - I've yet to see that. If you are talking about the first year contract box being greyed out that is by design. It simply means you cannot change the amount of the 1st year of the exception not that you cannot offer it. So if you could clarify what you are seeing for me I would appreciate it.

It was definitely the button grayed out for mid-level exception. If I can recreate it, I'll show you.

[Brian Swartz]

On the talent level of the drafts, you'll see this even out over a larger sample size. For example my last draft had 2 4/5-star guys, 4 4-star guys, and a sizable number of 3-stars. We may still tweak it but the talent level does vary year-to-year.

Trades -- if you have specific examples of the unfair trades with Atlanta you are referring to that would help in improving it. Some of the other ideas are possible patch additions, thanks for posting them.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

On the talent level of the drafts, you'll see this even out over a larger sample size. For example my last draft had 2 4/5-star guys, 4 4-star guys, and a sizable number of 3-stars. We may still tweak it but the talent level does vary year-to-year.

Trades -- if you have specific examples of the unfair trades with Atlanta you are referring to that would help in improving it. Some of the other ideas are possible patch additions, thanks for posting them.

I can't remember all of the trades I made. Basically, though, I was able to trade Joe Johnson for Yao, a bunch of young players for Boozer, Diaw, Bell, and Livingston. My concern is that many real world trades (ie dumping bad contracts for other bad contracts are prohibited) while Yao, Diaw, and Boozer are attainable for young "talent." In Yao's first season with the Hawks, he was the league MVP and the Rockets certainly didn't need Johnson at SG since they do have McGrady. If I have time, I'll try to recreate some of the bad trades (unless there is a history file for seasons past I can access to just post here).

[Brian Swartz]

In each player's profile it has transaction history, you should be able to see from there what the trades included.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

In each player's profile it has transaction history, you should be able to see from there what the trades included.

Ok. Here are some of the trades:

Rockets trade C Yao Ming for Hawks SG Joe Johnson, C John Edwards (06/26/06)

Suns trade SG Boris Diaw, SG Raja Bell for Hawks PF Zaza Pachulia, 2007 2nd round pick(ATL), 2007 2nd round pick(ATL), 2008 2nd round pick(ATL) (06/30/06)

Jazz trade PF Carlos Boozer, C Patrick O'Bryant for Hawks SF Josh Smith, C Loukas Mavrokefalidis, 2009 2nd round pick(ATL) (06/30/06)

This last trade ended up even stranger because Mavrokefalidis and O'Bryant were both in the free agent pool after being released within a year later. I re-signed O'Bryant again and was able to make this trade:

Bobcats trade PF Tyrus Thomas, 2008 2nd round pick(CHA), 2009 2nd round pick(CHA), 2010 2nd round pick(CHA) for Hawks C Altron Forman, C Patrick O'Bryant (07/02/07)

Forman was nothing special - a late first round 2 star potential player.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Ok. Here are some of the trades:

Rockets trade C Yao Ming for Hawks SG Joe Johnson, C John Edwards (06/26/06)

Suns trade SG Boris Diaw, SG Raja Bell for Hawks PF Zaza Pachulia, 2007 2nd round pick(ATL), 2007 2nd round pick(ATL), 2008 2nd round pick(ATL) (06/30/06)

Jazz trade PF Carlos Boozer, C Patrick O'Bryant for Hawks SF Josh Smith, C Loukas Mavrokefalidis, 2009 2nd round pick(ATL) (06/30/06)

This last trade ended up even stranger because Mavrokefalidis and O'Bryant were both in the free agent pool after being released within a year later. I re-signed O'Bryant again and was able to make this trade:

Bobcats trade PF Tyrus Thomas, 2008 2nd round pick(CHA), 2009 2nd round pick(CHA), 2010 2nd round pick(CHA) for Hawks C Altron Forman, C Patrick O'Bryant (07/02/07)

Forman was nothing special - a late first round 2 star potential player.

Not a good sign as I start getting into this. Not a single one of those trades should have happened. Is this on the toughest level?

[TroyF]

Oh and a dola. . . there is no way Diaw should have been able to have had a decent year at PG. Yes, he's a good passer, but there is no way in hell he'd stay with any PG on defense and his lack of playmaking off the dribble would kill the offense.

I'm not a guy who believes in a lot of position modifiers in basketball. It's five on five and that's the way it goes. But the exception is PG. You have to have a guy who can handle the ball well and set up the offense.

A lineup of Yao, Boozer, Morrison, Bell and Diaw should fail miserably over the long haul. It's not like the 6'8" Diaw is surrounded by Jordan and Pippen here. Bell is the only average passer of the bunch in that group of five. There just isn't anyway the offense would be able to function with that in the real world.

[Gary Gorski]

A new version of the beta patch is up (1.0.2 - yes the other was called 1.1 but I decided it would make more sense to continually update it and when it was official call it 1.1)

http://www.wolverinestudios.com/down...BPatch_102.EXE is the direct link to the patch. Fixes include

Beta Patch 1.0.2
----------------
- RTE 381 on league finances screen
- RTE 13 on league leaders screen
- RTE 3020 occassionaly after the coach hiring process
- RTE 91 crash during simming in future years
- fixed problem with "s_" import files not starting after summer process
- fixed problem that caused rookie import day to be skipped
- changed trade exception to reflect new 25% limit as opposed to 15%
- fixed ability to access player card from the FA screen
- continued to address sub matrix problem with AI teams in the summer
- now boxes will auto fill with player's demand when offering an extension
- fixed some player data and contract issues in default.dat file

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Ok. Here are some of the trades:

Rockets trade C Yao Ming for Hawks SG Joe Johnson, C John Edwards (06/26/06)

Suns trade SG Boris Diaw, SG Raja Bell for Hawks PF Zaza Pachulia, 2007 2nd round pick(ATL), 2007 2nd round pick(ATL), 2008 2nd round pick(ATL) (06/30/06)

Jazz trade PF Carlos Boozer, C Patrick O'Bryant for Hawks SF Josh Smith, C Loukas Mavrokefalidis, 2009 2nd round pick(ATL) (06/30/06)

This last trade ended up even stranger because Mavrokefalidis and O'Bryant were both in the free agent pool after being released within a year later. I re-signed O'Bryant again and was able to make this trade:

Bobcats trade PF Tyrus Thomas, 2008 2nd round pick(CHA), 2009 2nd round pick(CHA), 2010 2nd round pick(CHA) for Hawks C Altron Forman, C Patrick O'Bryant (07/02/07)

Forman was nothing special - a late first round 2 star potential player.

I'll take a look at what the AI was "thiking" in each of these cases. This may just be an issue with the new things I did to scouting error and GM abilities gone wrong. Basically I wanted to add the "Isiah factor" to trading but I may have over done it in some cases.

[Coffee Warlord]

That's a lot 'o second round picks.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I'll take a look at what the AI was "thiking" in each of these cases. This may just be an issue with the new things I did to scouting error and GM abilities gone wrong. Basically I wanted to add the "Isiah factor" to trading but I may have over done it in some cases.

Love the fact that stupid trades are in there, but there should only be one isiah.

I can deal with goofy trades. I've never played a game I didn't need some sort of house rules with. I am concerned about the Diaw/Bell/Morrison/Boozer/Yao grouping doing well together over a year. That is a killer type thing because if the AI can succeed with a 6'8" 230 pound PG consistently, the only way to match them is to go unrealistic yourself. I think that should be looked at hard.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Love the fact that stupid trades are in there, but there should only be one isiah.

I can deal with goofy trades. I've never played a game I didn't need some sort of house rules with. I am concerned about the Diaw/Bell/Morrison/Boozer/Yao grouping doing well together over a year. That is a killer type thing because if the AI can succeed with a 6'8" 230 pound PG consistently, the only way to match them is to go unrealistic yourself. I think that should be looked at hard.

This might be a ratings issue more than anything else. If Diaw is overrated in PG categories (handling, passing) then he's going to do fine. Size and weight shouldnt determine whether or not he can run an offense (Magic, LeBron...)

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

This might be a ratings issue more than anything else. If Diaw is overrated in PG categories (handling, passing) then he's going to do fine. Size and weight shouldnt determine whether or not he can run an offense (Magic, LeBron...)

Magic is a once in a generation freak of nature. (though keep in mind he was 15-20 pounds lighter than Diaw.

Lebron needs a true PG worse than any player in the league. Everyone thought the Cavs needed a SG to go with Bron and they were all wrong. The lack of a solid PG is the single biggest factor between them and a championship.

Lebron's stats may look nice, but the overall Cavs offense isn't. They consistenly are in the bottom third of the league in offensive efficiency, even with pace factor equated in. The Cavs are only winning right now because of the horrible conference they play in. That's not a dis on Bron who is doing a superhuman job to keep them where they are.

Sorry Gary, there is no way Boris Diaw should be the starting PG for a conference finalist.

I know, easy fix. Play with fictional players, right? It's things like this that cause me to do it. So long as there aren't a league full of Diaw's, I'm ok.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

That's a lot 'o second round picks.

It's been my experience that 2nd round picks are the perfect things to round out a very close trade. Throwing in more players and keeping the salaries matching can be tricky, so I grew accustomed (in the prior version) to throwing in 2nd round picks (which the game rightly considers to be worth little) and not dealing with 1st round picks (because the game probably values those way too much). But yeah, it does look funny sometimes.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Magic is a once in a generation freak of nature. (though keep in mind he was 15-20 pounds lighter than Diaw.

Lebron needs a true PG worse than any player in the league. Everyone thought the Cavs needed a SG to go with Bron and they were all wrong. The lack of a solid PG is the single biggest factor between them and a championship.

Lebron's stats may look nice, but the overall Cavs offense isn't. They consistenly are in the bottom third of the league in offensive efficiency, even with pace factor equated in. The Cavs are only winning right now because of the horrible conference they play in. That's not a dis on Bron who is doing a superhuman job to keep them where they are.

Sorry Gary, there is no way Boris Diaw should be the starting PG for a conference finalist.

I know, easy fix. Play with fictional players, right? It's things like this that cause me to do it. So long as there aren't a league full of Diaw's, I'm ok.

No, I'm not saying that at all. What I said was the perhaps Diaw is not rated properly which is causing him to perform better as a PG than he should. My point was that it should be his ratings that determine how he performs there and not his height and weight.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Love the fact that stupid trades are in there, but there should only be one isiah.

I can deal with goofy trades. I've never played a game I didn't need some sort of house rules with. I am concerned about the Diaw/Bell/Morrison/Boozer/Yao grouping doing well together over a year. That is a killer type thing because if the AI can succeed with a 6'8" 230 pound PG consistently, the only way to match them is to go unrealistic yourself. I think that should be looked at hard.

I would almost have goofy trades because, like you, I can deal with some level of house rules. My problem is that the game almost completely bans trading bad contracts (even for worse contracts) while allowing these trades. That means playing the Hawks is easy and playing the T-Wolves is impossible. And that's weird.

I think the Diaw problem is in part ratings and in part that the original roster file lists him as a SG (instead of PF/SF). I imagined Bell would be my 6th man and Livingston would be my PG when I made the trades, but Stan Van Gundy (my coach) thought differently.

[MrBug708]

Bad contracts trading is almost essential in the NBA; the expiring ones that is. An expiring contract has more value then a second round pick IMO

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by John Galt

I would almost have goofy trades because, like you, I can deal with some level of house rules. My problem is that the game almost completely bans trading bad contracts (even for worse contracts) while allowing these trades. That means playing the Hawks is easy and playing the T-Wolves is impossible. And that's weird.

I think the Diaw problem is in part ratings and in part that the original roster file lists him as a SG (instead of PF/SF). I imagined Bell would be my 6th man and Livingston would be my PG when I made the trades, but Stan Van Gundy (my coach) thought differently.

Oh, I agree John. I understand what you are saything there 100%. In the world of the NBA you have to be able to deal bad contracts. Also, in the world of the NBA, an expiring bad contract can be golden. You have a guy who is due 15 million in the last year of his deal and he's worth his weight in gold. Any team looking to rebuild will be all over the guy.

I can see how that's tough to put into a game, but the deal you mentioned above certainly should have went through.

[JPhillips]

One trade problem left over from the previous version is the Ais willingness to trade drafted players for lower draft picks. First round picks are valued so highly by the AI that you can regularly trade a mid-first round pick for one of the top three or four players selected.

First round picks in general are valued too highly. They don't seem to be connected to the talent pool in the draft. I was able to trade a #9 pick when the pool had no one rated over 3 by the draft or scouts for Rudy Gay who was drafted the year before at #4 and was rated at 4.5. I traded the 19 pick and a couple of seconds for Sheldon Williams, drafted #8 and rated at 4. In both of these trades I threw in a two star player to balance salaries.

I also had a strange bug where the first two lottery teams' logos didn't appear in the lottery screen. The rest of the picks worked fine.

I'd love to see just ratings, just stats and stats and ratings options on the filters for players. That would save a lot of clicking little boxes.

I also had a very poor AI trade. I got Josh Howard and two first round picks for Kedrick Perkins and a first round pick. This doesn't sound bad until you realize that the Mavs always finish in the ottery after year one. btw- Why is that?

I'll keep posting things as I find them. I do want to point out that this version hasn't crashed on me and that overall I think this is a really fun game. It's already given me a couple of "Damn it's that late?" nights. The draft is excellent in setup. When I got a message saying I might trade the pick when I was indeed thinking of trading I almost cried.

[Gary Gorski]

Keep the feedback coming guys - Im working very quickly to fix any RTEs that crop up but I will also be taking the time to tweak things like trading and add in new stuff as well so keep the feedback rolling - both positive and negative welcomed

[MrBug708]

Not sure how hard it might be, but once the lotto is done and before the draft, any visit to the trade screen would reveal that pick in the draft. If there was a number value, obviously the first overall pick would be much more valuable then just it saying first round pick? I know it's that way in FOF once the new season is upon a team

[stevew]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Magic is a once in a generation freak of nature. (though keep in mind he was 15-20 pounds lighter than Diaw.

Lebron needs a true PG worse than any player in the league. Everyone thought the Cavs needed a SG to go with Bron and they were all wrong. The lack of a solid PG is the single biggest factor between them and a championship.

Lebron's stats may look nice, but the overall Cavs offense isn't. They consistenly are in the bottom third of the league in offensive efficiency, even with pace factor equated in. The Cavs are only winning right now because of the horrible conference they play in. That's not a dis on Bron who is doing a superhuman job to keep them where they are.

Sorry Gary, there is no way Boris Diaw should be the starting PG for a conference finalist.

I know, easy fix. Play with fictional players, right? It's things like this that cause me to do it. So long as there aren't a league full of Diaw's, I'm ok.

Actually, I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that LeBron is the main problem with their offense, and his lack of movement without the ball, and tendency to run the shot clock down too far and go one on one kills them. Gibson is doing a nice job of spreading the floor when he gets time, Larry Hughes needs a CEI or something, he's f'n worthless.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Not sure how hard it might be, but once the lotto is done and before the draft, any visit to the trade screen would reveal that pick in the draft. If there was a number value, obviously the first overall pick would be much more valuable then just it saying first round pick? I know it's that way in FOF once the new season is upon a team

So what you're saying is that rather than see " 2007 1st round pick" in the trade screen you want to see "2007 1st round pick #4" or something like that?

[Capital]

[quote=JPhillips;1378542]One trade problem left over from the previous version is the Ais willingness to trade drafted players for lower draft picks. First round picks are valued so highly by the AI that you can regularly trade a mid-first round pick for one of the top three or four players selected.

First round picks in general are valued too highly. They don't seem to be connected to the talent pool in the draft. I was able to trade a #9 pick when the pool had no one rated over 3 by the draft or scouts for Rudy Gay who was drafted the year before at #4 and was rated at 4.5. I traded the 19 pick and a couple of seconds for Sheldon Williams, drafted #8 and rated at 4. In both of these trades I threw in a two star player to balance salaries.

This is something I saw in the last version as well. For intsance, I couldn't trade up to the #3 overall pick, but could make the deal for that player without much difficulty. That player did turn out to be a star.

I think it was a matter of valuing the pick more than the actual player.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

So what you're saying is that rather than see " 2007 1st round pick" in the trade screen you want to see "2007 1st round pick #4" or something like that?

Ya, it would be helpful. Not essential of course though

[John Galt]

I ran a couple of tests on the overvaluing of first round picks. During the draft, I was able to trade Orlando's first round pick (11th) for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th player selected in the draft immediately after they were drafted. That is pretty bad. And, immediately before they were picked, I couldn't move up to save my life.

After having another first year draft, I remain convinced that the later years have too little talent and/or the first year has WAY too much talent. The first year is so different than every year after, that it isn't even funny.

Still, I'm playing the game because it does a lot of things right and it is, for the most part, enjoyable.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by John Galt

I ran a couple of tests on the overvaluing of first round picks. During the draft, I was able to trade Orlando's first round pick (11th) for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th player selected in the draft immediately after they were drafted. That is pretty bad. And, immediately before they were picked, I couldn't move up to save my life.

After having another first year draft, I remain convinced that the later years have too little talent and/or the first year has WAY too much talent. The first year is so different than every year after, that it isn't even funny.

Still, I'm playing the game because it does a lot of things right and it is, for the most part, enjoyable.

Thanks JG - we're looking into the draft classes. We've seen a decent balance but perhaps the first one is too good and later ones need some tweaking. I'm going to keep looking at it and tweaking as we go here.

[MrBug708]

One thing I noticed in the coaching pool is that thee are coaches that are aged like 4 years old.

And the descriptions of your coaching staff seems to be kind of confusing as the maximum values are on the right side of each coach. So even though the bar isn't near the right hand side always, the casual glance is that it's alwas excellent or on veterans or always *et al*

And maybe as a suggestion, perhaps a team could have the ability to hire away assistant coaches? To keep things from being too crazy, maybe only the option to hire them as head coaches? I'm pretty sure that in the NBA, no head coach would stand in the way of one of his assistants from being hired as a head coach if the chance arose?

Sorry, just some thoughts as I see them

[MrBug708]

Another trivial thing I noticed. In the second round, I could pick from five different PF's from Illinois and 4 of them were 1 star. Not that it matters in the end, but maybe more small schools added?

Once again, I apologize for pointing out small things, but just things I noticed :

[MrBug708]

JUst had a rookie, who didn't register a stat, win second team all rookie...

[JPhillips]

This is going on the shelf until the drafts and the AI trade offer issues get fixed.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

This is going on the shelf until the drafts and the AI trade offer issues get fixed.

Yeah me too.

[Fidatelo]

I think the 3 day trial is too short. I only had about 3 hours total over the timespan to play, and while I'm tempted to buy it, I wanted a little more time to decide if I like it or not. Would a 7, 10, or 14 day trial really hurt sales? I can't picture someone enjoying the game and then thinking "well, I got a solid week out of this, time to move on". This isn't the kind of game that you 'finish' after all.

[Subby]

Any mp experiences?

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by John Galt

I would almost have goofy trades because, like you, I can deal with some level of house rules. My problem is that the game almost completely bans trading bad contracts (even for worse contracts) while allowing these trades. That means playing the Hawks is easy and playing the T-Wolves is impossible. And that's weird.

I think the Diaw problem is in part ratings and in part that the original roster file lists him as a SG (instead of PF/SF). I imagined Bell would be my 6th man and Livingston would be my PG when I made the trades, but Stan Van Gundy (my coach) thought differently.

This scares me. I tried out the last game that Gary released and while it was impressive, the fact that bad contracts are untradable completely bugged me - you can't deal one bad player for another even if it makes sense for both parties. If that's still an issue, this game goes back on the "no thanks" list.