NFL Week 15 - Pacman's career over?

[EagleFan]

Wow, that was an AWFUL spot and an even worse decision under replay of "the play stands".

[SirFozzie]

That's like five times the Raiders pass rush has gotten their hands on Cassell without bringing him down.

And how in the hell can Wes Welker be that wide open?

edit: Welker with his 100th catch of the year for the TD

[ISiddiqui]

I am literally stunned that the Falcons are 9-5 right now with games at Minny and against StL at home left. There is a good chance they win 10 games.

Just give Matt Ryan the MVP already.

[SirFozzie]

And the Raiders take back the KO for the touchdown. 42 points in 18 minutes. Insane

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I am literally stunned that the Falcons are 9-5 right now with games at Minny and against StL at home left. There is a good chance they win 10 games.

Just give Matt Ryan the MVP already.

I am ecstatic... After Elam's kick today I had to restrain from doing a jig in my home office where I was watching.

Ryan isn't really the MVP, Turner has been just as important this year, but Falcons offensive line has been very underrated I think and a big key to their success.

It makes me feel dirty, but oh I am rooting for the Giants tonight.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

And the Raiders take back the KO for the touchdown. 42 points in 18 minutes. Insane

If this was jeopardy, then the answer would be:

What happens when two teams with dreadful defenses meet

(yes I know that was a special teams score there, but just wait.. Pats secondary is just as bad)

[Alan T]

Hahah.. Pats with a kickoff return now. THis is rediculous.

[EagleFan]

Refs screwed the pooch on that drive. First they give Pittsburgh a Christmas gift of a spot than they call the Ravens offside on a play that should have been blown dead before that as the play clock ran out, should have been delay of game.

"It looked like he was trying to jump the snap"

Yeah, because the ball should have been snapped by then.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Hahah.. Pats with a kickoff return now. THis is rediculous.

Someone's going to hit the reset buton on this game

[Raiders Army]

They'll score way over 100 points combined now. 49 points and over 12 minutes left in the 2nd quarter.

[Radii]

Steve Smith has 5 catches for 120 yards already. Neither Denver nor Carolina seems to have a pass defense today. 17-10 Panthers with 5:45 left in the half.

[Thomkal]

Well Cards might as well let Leinart play the rest of the game, down 28-0 geeze

[DeToxRox]

For the record ..

my WR's in FF today (and every day) are Andre Johnson and Steve Smith.

Booyakaka.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I am literally stunned that the Falcons are 9-5 right now with games at Minny and against StL at home left. There is a good chance they win 10 games.

Just give Matt Ryan the MVP already.

i think you meant to say "very good chance they go 11-5"

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Wow, that was an AWFUL spot and an even worse decision under replay of "the play stands".

Agree terrible spot, and I am a Steelers fan. But show me where conclusive evidence was to overturn.

I can't believe with all the camera angles, there isn't always two cameras walking right along side the chain gang to get the LOS and first down marker.

[Radii]

Deangelo Williams breaks a run for 55ish yards and a TD, 27-10 Carolina early in the 3rd quarter.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Man... not to kick the Raiders while they're down, but can we relegate them and the Lions to the CFL (I would have said the Arena Football League, but apparently they ain't gonna play this year)

The Lions and Raiders didn't play this year so what difference would it make?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I am literally stunned that the Falcons are 9-5 right now with games at Minny and against StL at home left. There is a good chance they win 10 games.

Just give Matt Ryan the MVP already.

He has easily become one of the top favorite 3 players in our household.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Missed FG. Norv's stupidity saved.

And that's a crying shame.

[kingfc22]

How is this Raiders game not blacked out like the rest! GRRRR... I much rather be watching the BAL/PIT game

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i think you meant to say "very good chance they go 11-5"

NOT getting ahead of myself too much .

It's a Falcons fan thing .

[Cringer]

The Packers pulled through with another loss for me, as I knew they would. They find great ways to lose every week now, it really is fantastic to watch.

My biggest problem with the team this week? Play calling. I hated the play calling a lot of the time. I also am upset Brandon Jackson is getting know carries. After none last week he had 1 I think this week. This after a comment from McCarthy about wanting to get him the ball some more. 1 is more I guess.

Rodgers was crap on the last drive of the game. After an article came out in Green Bay during the week about how he still doesn't have a 4th quarter comeback win, he blows one. That will bring some negative comments I am sure. He did well though overall. Missed a couple long balls that could have been huge, but also hit James Jones twice on long ones (nice to see Jones involved again). The o-line made things hard for him once again today with little protection.

Green bay locks up a losing record for the year. Cheers Packer fans.

[miami_fan]

Wow Santonio has butterfingers today

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

And Haynesworth got injured, doesn't look good for the Titans.

Wat playcall was worse, Bills putting the game in Losman's hands with less than 2:00 left on 2nd and 5, or Jeff Fischer calling a 30 yard pass on 4th and short from the 32 yard line down by 1?

Yup. Titans will be this year 14-2 one and done playoff home field advantage team to get knocj=ked out of the playoffs with that injury with the word being MCL tear.........As for the 4and 3 from Houston's 33 yard line. The play call are all offensive coordinator Heimerdinger's calls. he should be shown the door after this year. They have won despite his very very predicatable play selection (except this time ) Steelers next week

[EagleFan]

There is some serious hitting going on in this game.

[Neuqua]

Who would have guessed the Bears would finish with a better record than the Packers at the end of the year?

[Radii]

Carolina shuts out Denver in the 2nd half and comes away with a solid 30-10 win to finish 8-0 at home. 11-3 now with two games left on the road. I can't wait for the big showdown with the Giants next week.

[Jas_lov]

He's not in the endzone! Terrible spike would have given them another down to go 1 inch.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Radii

Carolina shuts out Denver in the 2nd half and comes away with a solid 30-10 win to finish 8-0 at home. 11-3 now with two games left on the road. I can't wait for the big showdown with the Giants next week.

do I smell a sig bet?

[EagleFan]

WTF? It doesn't matter where his feet were. The ball wasn't in the end zone.

[molson]

Very frustrating to watch the Bills and 49ers blow their games against Jets and Dolphins, who seemed happy to hand the games over.

That 3rd at 17 Favre converted in overtime at Foxboro is going to come back to haunt them. That and getting blown out by San Diego.

[miami_fan]

okay I have seen Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco both play in a few games. I hope everyone stops linking them together as rookie QB whose teams are winning. The Falcons are winning in large part because of Ryan. The Ravens are winning in large part in spite of Flacco.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Lathum

do I smell a sig bet?

Pride and home field advantage should be more than enough riding on that game!

[Logan]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

WTF? It doesn't matter where his feet were. The ball wasn't in the end zone.

Different when you're talking about catching a pass. Imagine the receiver catching a ball that is technically out of bounds, but because his feet come down in the end zone, it's a touchdown.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Logan

Different when you're talking about catching a pass. Imagine the receiver catching a ball that is technically out of bounds, but because his feet come down in the end zone, it's a touchdown.

Yeah, if the question was if he caught itat the back of the end zone, the ball still HAS to cross the plane which it didn't.

[molson]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Yeah, if the question was if he caught itat the back of the end zone, the ball still HAS to cross the plane which it didn't.

So if you're saying if it's the back of the end zone, the ball doesn't have to break the plane, but if it's in the front, it does?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by molson

So if you're saying if it's the back of the end zone, the ball doesn't have to break the plane, but if it's in the front, it does?

I thought that was just for determining whether a player is in bounds. I'd love to hear a better explanation here, as far as I understood a touchdown *always* involves the ball crossing the plane of the goal line, regardless of where the player is.

[Izulde]

What a great day footballwise.

The Dolphins gut out the win and stay in playoff and division title contention and I advance to the league championship in fantasy football.

Now if I only could be having that kind of success with this paper I'm writing. :o

[Hurst2112]

Steelers

92 yard drive to win it against the 2nd best defense in football. Yeah, I'd say they're the team to beat in the AFC...possibly the NFL.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Radii

I thought that was just for determining whether a player is in bounds. I'd love to hear a better explanation here, as far as I understood a touchdown *always* involves the ball crossing the plane of the goal line, regardless of where the player is.

I did some quick skimming, there may be a pass/run distinction.

To run the ball in, obviously the ball has to cross the plane.

For a pass, it's more complicated. Obviously you can catch a ball in the back of the end zone, even if you reach out of bounds to get it. The ball NEVER has to cross the plane in that example. The ball can travel completely to the side of the endzone, but if the player catches it while both feet are in, it's a TD. I don't see why that would be any different in the front of the end zone.

[Logan]

That's the point I was trying to make.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by molson

Obviously you can catch a ball in the back of the end zone, even if you reach out of bounds to get it. The ball NEVER has to cross the plane in that example. The ball can travel completely to the side of the endzone, but if the player catches it while both feet are in, it's a TD.

My understanding in your example is that the end zone line extends out of bounds. Its not that the ball has to be caught in the area of the end zone, bracketed on all four sides by a boundary(the goal line and the three out of bounds lines in the end zone)... its that the ball has to go past the goal line.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Radii

My understanding in your example is that the end zone line extends out of bounds. Its not that the ball has to be caught in the area of the end zone, bracketed on all four sides by a boundary(the goal line and the three out of bounds lines in the end zone)... its that the ball has to go past the goal line.

This is correct. When a player catches a ball in the back of the endzone, the ball crossed the goal line. It doesn't count, of course, unless the player catches the ball, but the ball crossed the goal line in the air, so it's a touchdown. The same goes if it's on the sideline, the goal line extends out "forever".

But if the ball never crosses the goal line in any way, it's not a touchdown.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Radii

My understanding in your example is that the end zone line extends out of bounds. Its not that the ball has to be caught in the area of the end zone, bracketed on all four sides by a boundary(the goal line and the three out of bounds lines in the end zone)... its that the ball has to go past the goal line.

Gotcha....

It's kind of funny - I found 3 different message boards discussing this exact scenario, all posted well before today's game. None of them reached a consensus.

I'm assuming the refs are right. If the posters here are correct, that means none of the referees on the field knew the rule. And despite the common criticisims of NFL refs, I just can't believe that.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by molson

I did some quick skimming, there may be a pass/run distinction.

To run the ball in, obviously the ball has to cross the plane.

For a pass, it's more complicated. Obviously you can catch a ball in the back of the end zone, even if you reach out of bounds to get it. The ball NEVER has to cross the plane in that example. The ball can travel completely to the side of the endzone, but if the player catches it while both feet are in, it's a TD. I don't see why that would be any different in the front of the end zone.

I don't know if this explanation will help at all. Remember I only know High School rules, I doubt NFL ones would be different for this sort of thing but here are my 2 cents.

Technically the goal lines extend through the out of bounds. So when you catch a ball that is out of bounds but your feet in, you are still crossing the plane of the endzone. That's why you will see touchdowns awarded to players who hit the pylon with the ball. The pylon is out of bounds but since the player was still in the field of play, it makes it a touchdown.

As for today's call, I thought the initial call was the correct one, but it is all based on when the official thinks he had total possession. There was a point right after the ball hit the WR's hand that you could make a case where the very tip hit the goalline. But at the same time I thought that the white of the goalline could have actually been a part of the white in a Raven's player's uniform.

Either way I thought it was a poor explanation of the call. He should have said something about the ball crossing the plane, because in the end that is what matters, not the feet.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm assuming the refs are right. If the posters here are correct, that means none of the referees on the field knew the rule. And despite the common criticisims of NFL refs, I just can't believe that.

A big part of the problem could just be in the way the call was explained at the time. Its very possible we're all right and the ref just did a bad job of explaining exactly what was under review. And of course, the announcers were no help at all, but that shouldn't be a surprise.

[Lathum]

So did anyone else notice during the Sunday night intro song Romo, TO and Witten are horsing around watching a game throwing popcorn at each other?

Pure gold!

[sabotai]

The rulebook that I have is from 2001, so maybe something was changed, but I doubt it.

Rule 2: Definitions
Section 38: TOUCHDOWN
A Touchdown is the situation in which any part of the ball, legally in possession of a player inbounds, is on, above, or behind the opponent's goal line (plane), provided it is not a touchback (11-2).

Rule 11: Scoring
Section 2: TOUCHDOWN
Article 1: It is a touchdown
(a) - when a runner (3-38) advances from the field of play and the ball touches the opponent's goal line (plane); or
(b) - while in bounds any player catches or recovers a loose ball (3-2-3) on or behind the opponent's goal line.

And then the supplemental notes say the ball is dead the instant the ball crosses the goal line and that the refs can award a TD to a team if they are deprived one because of a palpably unfair act by the defense.


There may actually be some vagueness with (b) above. The way it is written, it could mean either the ball or the player has to be on or behind the goal line, but if it just means the player, than it contradicts the definition.

[Logan]

I'll wait for Perreira to explain it.

[Dr. Sak]

HAHA the Dallas fans are booing TO!!