Android vs iPhone

[stevew]

Screen 26%
Cell Standby 26%
Chrome 14%
Android System 8%
Android OS 7%
Epic MealTime 4%
Espn FFL 3%
Media Server 3%
Maps 3%
Polaris Viewer 4.0 3%

[stevew]

I don't usually call anyone

[Ksyrup]

So this morning I powered on my fully-charged phone at 7am. Just short of 5 hours in, I'm at 46% battery having done nothing but take 2 calls for about 3 minutes and 10 minutes and checked emails every so often.

Here's what I'm showing:

Android OS: 44% (!!!)
Voice calls: 17%
Exchange Services: 12%
Screen: 7%
Email: 5%
Cell standby: 4%
Phone 4%
Phone idle: 3%
Android System: 2%


This is with one "active application" (email) - which is different, of course, from the buried-in-the-settings running applications of which there are, again, about 3 dozen.

WTF?

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, your phone is fucked.

[Ksyrup]

And for the second straight day, at about 5 hours in, it shut competely down. When I pulled the battery and restarted it, the battery is now down to 22%. Looks like I'll be calling again here shortly. Can'wait for them to blame this one on all the apps I have running.

[Ksyrup]

Based on more of my own information than anything they could tell me, it definitely sounds like an ICS issue. The only thing left to try before they would send me a new phone is a complete factory reset, so I'm going to do that. It will wipe out ICS, which is good. I hate having to lose everything, though. I only have a handful of pictures, whih I downloaded, and we saved my contacts to Gmail (they should sync wih mywork email anyway), but I'm talking about all the apps and stuff. Hate starting over.

[Scoobz0202]

Id be awfully assertive on your next phone call about getting a new phone.

[Scoobz0202]

The apps are fairly straight forward I think. All the paid ones will be on your account and just have to press install. Id maybe write down the free apps to easier search and download quickly

The pain that i hate is having to do the first run through on all the apps but honestly it shouldnt take more than 30 minutes.

[Daimyo]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Android is winning based on sales but Apple will also have that niche.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/08/tech...d=HP_Highlight

Apple has 17% of the revenue, but 70+% of the profits! I think they'll take that "niche".

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/03/...phone-vendors/

[ISiddiqui]

I haven't heard of it being an ICS issue. Basically, lots of devices these days have ICS and usually it tends to help battery life, not fuck it up.

[Ksyrup]

I've seen a bunch of references in articles and forums about battery draining isues with ICS. But nothing specific as to what's causing it. I guess I'll find out for sure after I reset, but I'm pretty sure this all started happening after I upgraded the OS. There weren't THAT many noticeable upgrades with ICS anyway, so I don't think it's that big a deal.

[Ksyrup]

Here, check this out from December 2011:

Google Groups

Different phone, but on ICS 4.0.3. One of the posters showed these stats:

Android OS - 46%
- CPU total 58min
- Keep Awake 1hr 44min
Screen - 25%
- Time on 29min
Phone idle - 10%
Cell Standby - 8%
(Several other all less than 5%)


Look familiar? Right now my phone is at 5 hours 2 minutes on battery, and Android OS is at 40% with a stay awake time of 2 hours 59 minutes.

[rjolley]

Ksyrup, are you on 4.0.3? Looks like there were some fixes in 4.0.4 for an Android OS bug. Not sure if it was a memory issue or not, didn't see many details on the page I was on.

[Ksyrup]

Yes. AT&T just approved 4.0.3 in July and I just tried to update, but it says that's the latest version. Is it a recent version?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Here, check this out from December 2011:

Google Groups

Different phone, but on ICS 4.0.3. One of the posters showed these stats:

Android OS - 46%
- CPU total 58min
- Keep Awake 1hr 44min
Screen - 25%
- Time on 29min
Phone idle - 10%
Cell Standby - 8%
(Several other all less than 5%)


Look familiar? Right now my phone is at 5 hours 2 minutes on battery, and Android OS is at 40% with a stay awake time of 2 hours 59 minutes.

I'm not entirely sure that proves ICS is the culprit. Before I had to replace my Thunderbolt, it was showing stats like Android OS and Phone higher than screen level & it was on Gingerbread. Basically when the numbers go that way it means your phone is messed up. AFAIK, its not an OS specific thing.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I'm not entirely sure that proves ICS is the culprit. Before I had to replace my Thunderbolt, it was showing stats like Android OS and Phone higher than screen level & it was on Gingerbread. Basically when the numbers go that way it means your phone is messed up. AFAIK, its not an OS specific thing.

Its possible that you installed something which was triggering OS level activities and causing the percentage to rise.

For instance if I write a new application which continually requests the OS tell me something its entirely possible that the 'request' duration might be allocated to OS rather than my application (this is speculation tbh as its not something I've looked into myself, but in general with supporting android I've found a LOT of problems are user inflicted - its a powerful OS but its like Linux its damned easy to shoot yourself in the foot using it ).

[Ksyrup]

Well, we'll find out in the next 24-48 hours, I guess. I have to wait until after 5 to reset because my only connection to one of my work email addresses is on the phone, since I'm working from home today. So they'll have to reconfigure the phone to get my email tomorrow.

[ISiddiqui]

That's true... I didn't think of a potential rogue application causing the issues.

[Ksyrup]

So I guess I'll need to install new apps a couple at a time and keep track of what I'm installing each day in case it starts happening again.

[DanGarion]

I didn't read everything regarding your issue, but have you completely wiped your phone and reset it to defaults?

Settings - Backup and Reset - Factory Data Reset?

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Yes. AT&T just approved 4.0.3 in July and I just tried to update, but it says that's the latest version. Is it a recent version?

4.0.3 may be the newest version that AT&T provides, but there is an 4.0.4 release as well.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, I found info about it. Considering AT&T just rolled out 4.0.3 about 45 days ago, I doubt 4.0.4 is coming any time soon.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

I didn't read everything regarding your issue, but have you completely wiped your phone and reset it to defaults?

Settings - Backup and Reset - Factory Data Reset?

I'll be doing that later today. It will eliminate ICS, of course, so if that is the issue, it should go away. But I guess I won't know for sure until I've added back all of the apps I use, because it might be caused by one of them (although I can't think of many apps I've added in the past couple of months - most of them I grabbed pretty early on).

[rjolley]

Looking at XDA, it's a problem with 4.0.3 and some phones. They do mention an issue with the Dolphin browser as well. Are you using it?

Some say a factory reset helps.

http://www.google.com/cse?q=4.0.3+ba...ain&gsc.page=1

[Ksyrup]

I don't know what that is, so I'm going to say no.

[rjolley]

The Dolphin browser is a web browser on Android. Does the job pretty well.

[Ksyrup]

Ha! That was interesting. I went to do a factory reset and it told me that I had to delete my Samsung account first. Um...what Samsung account? Try it a few more times and it keeps telling me the same thing. I call AT&T back to have them walk me through the reset, and literally 3 seconds after I describe it the lady tells me she'll have to get Samsung on the phone because she's never heard of that before. No attempt to figure it out, no putting me on hold to ask someone...she just dials Samsung.

OK, we get the Samsung chick on the line, I describe the problem, and SHE tells me she's never heard of that before and needs to put us on hold. At this point, AT&T lady starts laughing. Three minutes later, Samsung chick comes back on and explains that it's some sort of failsafe to make sure no one accidentally wipes their phone. But she's never heard of it before. So I ask her if it's basically the stupid button. That gets AT&T lady downright giggling.

So Samsung chick tells me we have to wipe my "Samsung account" info. She takes me into my apps, I find the account, and it doesn't have the options that Samsung chick expected. I can either force stop it or uninstall. No wipe. She's perplexed. AT&T lady is gasping for air at this point. So we power the phone down, pull the battery, put it back in, and do a hard reset with the phone powered off. That does the trick.

Phone's back up, and I'll monitor the battery, but... the damn phone auto-installed every single app I had on there without me even knowing it. So either the issue is with ICS, or it's an app problem and when the battery drain happens again, I'll probably get a new phone out of it.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

auto-installed every single app I had on there without me even knowing it. So either the issue is with ICS, or it's an app problem and when the battery drain happens again, I'll probably get a new phone out of it.

So you know for the future - All you need to do is uncheck google sync right before flashing your new rom. Apps will not come back automaticaly but will still show up on googleplay as purchased so you can download and install them when you want to.

[Ksyrup]

Well, so far things are much improved. Still don't know the cause, but my guess is it's definitely whatever caused the Android OS to stay awake. This morning, the phone's been on for just over 2 hours and the "stay awake" time is less than 20 minutes. The battery is at 88% and that was starting with it at about 95% when I turned it on this morning.

But, I don't know if that was just the OS doing it or an app. I haven't added widgets or anything like that as I used before. I'll give it until tonight before I start customizing it.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

But, I don't know if that was just the OS doing it or an app. I haven't added widgets or anything like that as I used before. I'll give it until tonight before I start customizing it.

Widgets (esp. custom ones) are just the sort of 'app' which tend to muck up battery usage .... something as simple as a 'weather' widget can seriously screw up battery usage if it polls online semi-frequently for updates for instance.

[Ksyrup]

Good news so far - yesterday the battery lasted all day, and I recharged it to 100% last night so I could observe it again today. As of now, it's been on for 5 hours 35 minutes, it's been in "stay awake" mode for only 38 minutes, and the battery's at 87%. And this is with several widgets installed and working. I'm definitely thinking it was ICS that was causing the battery drain/overheat.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Good news so far - yesterday the battery lasted all day, and I recharged it to 100% last night so I could observe it again today. As of now, it's been on for 5 hours 35 minutes, it's been in "stay awake" mode for only 38 minutes, and the battery's at 87%. And this is with several widgets installed and working. I'm definitely thinking it was ICS that was causing the battery drain/overheat.

Wait, when you reset to factory defaults you no longer have ICS? That's weird...

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Wait, when you reset to factory defaults you no longer have ICS? That's weird...

Yeah I'd have thought 'factory defaults' would comprise of ICS default installation if you have it installed already.

Definitely the case for a lot of devices eg. from my Acer Tablet support site:
Note that the reset does not change the current operating system that has been flashed onto your ROM. For example, if you are running ICS (4.0.3), the tablet will stay on ICS, regardless of whether or not an earlier version of Android came pre-installed on the device. The OS software itself is not removed or changed by the procedure, but only temporary OS data, cache and user data are cleared. This causes the tablet to boot up to the initial setup screen, where you will have to again set up your wifi, log into google, etc.

[Ksyrup]

That was the whole point of doing the factory reset. The factory reset put the phone back to where it was when I bought it - Gingerbread. ICS wasn't available until early July on AT&T.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Yeah I'd have thought 'factory defaults' would comprise of ICS default installation if you have it installed already.

My Samsung Galaxy S2 (GT 9100 International version) kept ICS after a factory reset.

[Ksyrup]

Hmm...mine is definitely not the same as it was before. Even the swipe screen is different - the text is in a different place. Another problem (mostly cosmetic, so I never really cared) I had with ICS was swiping screen-to-screen would move the blue screen under the apps. That's not happening anymore, either. Honestly, I didn't notice many changes between GB and ICS, so I'm not sure what else got reset to factory (or didn't get reset).

[Galaxy]

Do you think the premium will be worth it for the iPhone 5, or should I go with a iPhone 4S when it gets a price cut when the iPhone comes out?

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Do you think the premium will be worth it for the iPhone 5, or should I go with a iPhone 4S when it gets a price cut when the iPhone comes out?

The iPhone 5 will have 4G LTE on Verizon's network so if you have Verizon I'd say wait for the new iPhone. The iPhone 5 will have a larger screen, a faster processor and a better camera. Functionally it should be very similar to the iPhone 4S though.

[stevew]

The trade in value for the 5 will be much higher than that of the 4S(in 2 years). Plus with all the new accessories(cables, etc) possibly changing for the 5, I would just buy that one. IOS will probably run significantly better on the new one as well.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I don't know copyright legalese but think this will really hurt Samsung. I'm good with it though, I do think companies piggy backed off Apples ingenuity.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/08/.../?iid=HP_River

Congrats Steve, you were right.

Jury Awards $1 Billion to Apple in Samsung Patent Case - NYTimes.com

A jury awarded Apple more than $1 billion in damages after finding that Samsung infringed a series of Apple patents on smartphones and tablet computers, in a closely watched court case that could have broad implications for the mobile business.

[Buccaneer]

"It will lead to fewer choices, less innovation, and potentially higher prices," the company [Samsung] said in a written statement.

Then fucking come up with your own innovation that doesn't "willfully" infringe upon patents.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Then fucking come up with your own innovation that doesn't "willfully" infringe upon patents.

Because we all know that Apple truly made everything these patents support...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Then fucking come up with your own innovation that doesn't "willfully" infringe upon patents.

Some of these things are incredibly broad. And it's not like Apple came up with rounded corners on a phone.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Some of these things are incredibly broad. And it's not like Apple came up with rounded corners on a phone.

I imagine the actual patent filed is more in depth than that.

[stevew]

Someone coold find links, I remember seeing a bunch of silly patents. How to unlock a screen type nonsense. How to click on a phone number and have it dial, etc.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Then fucking come up with your own innovation that doesn't "willfully" infringe upon patents.

Patent laws in this country are rather stupid.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Congrats Steve, you were right.

Jury Awards $1 Billion to Apple in Samsung Patent Case - NYTimes.com

Not over by a long shot - thats just a home court win which was a given frankly, in a similar manner 'Samsung' won their case against Apple in Korea ..... expect appeals across the board and the real winners to be the lawyers, the real losers to be customers who are seeing innovations and improvements stifled.

(personally I hate bloody tech patents - especially the trivial shite which is often used in the 'mobile wars' ... frankly a lot of the items raised have prior art against them and should just be written off instantly imho)

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I imagine the actual patent filed is more in depth than that.

Unfortunately in many cases they aren't particularly - the 'bounce off the last page when you swipe' one for instance ... not only is it trivial to implement but its got prior art against it by various prior devices, its just Apple were the first to 'patent it'.

There are some really weird patents waiting to bite people - as an example heres one which SEGA own to do with arrows pointing the way in driving games ..

Patent Arcade: Case Analysis: Sega v. Fox

I'm still waiting with baited breath for an obsolete computer corporation to remember they patented clicking on icons

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I imagine the actual patent filed is more in depth than that.

It is, but a lot of the things are quite broad and sort of things that are tough to leave out of any phone. While I don't think companies should blatantly rip off others, I also think the patent wars going on is just going to stifle technology.

Take for instance the pinch and zoom which was found to infringe. Sure it was innovative for Apple to put on a device, but is it really something that no other company would have come up with? How many ways are there to zoom in and out on a touchscreen without pinching? Just feels like we're setting ourselves up for an era where companies file a gazillion patents and are scared to infringe on others leading to subpar technology and products.

The irony of this whole thing though is that Apple build their name by stealing from Xerox.

[Galaxy]

Kind of silly that Apple couldn't beat Microsoft in basically a similar lawsuit (for computers), but they got this.

Business | Apple-Microsoft Lawsuit Fizzles To A Close -- `Nothing Left' To Fight About | Seattle Times Newspaper