Mad Men Season 4 Discussion

[GrantDawg]

I am so late to the party it is funny. But I just watched all 4 seasons, then watched the Matt Wiener commentaries for all four seasons, so I guess you can say I am addicted. I just read thru this discussion and wanted to comment on some things.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Man, I tell you, Sally is going to be screwed up. I know that we all saw it coming, but she's crying out for attention, and Betty is the one who is always around... poor girl!

I joked with my wife while watching season two that Sally was going to end up on a pole. I am not as sure anymore. Bad parenting doesn't always equal a completely broken grown-up, and I think Sally is showing she may be smart enough and strong enough to over-come Betty.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yeah, the thing about Pete is that while he's a dick, he seems to be more and more 'right' about things. He's getting big accounts and he was right that dealing with the Japanese is the smart thing to do.

Spot on. The theme of Pete this season is that he has become the "grown up" in this company of childish egos. Not that he still isn't a egotist himself, or doesn't get petty at times. Still, he has a better business sense than most of the others (really his wife has an even better business sense than he does). Pete, though, gives up more, takes more risks, and ends up doing things for the betterment of the company more than anyone else. He may bitch about it, but he does it. Plus, after the au pair incident, is there a stronger marriage in the show? Pete grew up, and is now the father of this mess.

Originally Posted by jeff061

Yeah, it wasn't so much about trying to sabotage Pete because he doesn't want Pete specifically to succeed. He doesn't want the company to get to a point where it can exist without Lucky Strike. Which I think was Pete's point.

This. Pete was wrong in reading his motivation (Pete never served, and really doesn't believe that Rodger really just can't get over WW2.) It is understandable that Pete jumped to that conclusion, though I really don't think that was what was moving Rodger. I knew men who fought in the Pacific that still thought like Rodger did to their dying day.

Originally Posted by DataKing

That was Pete's point, but the way I saw it Lucky Strike had nothing to do with Roger's motivations. He obviously still maintains a (somewhat understandable) hatred against the Japanese for the hardships he and his friends endured during World War II. I never saw Lucky Strike as the reason for Roger's sabotage efforts. That's what Pete saw, but it's not what I saw, which I think is part of the reason I still see Pete as somewhat petty.

And it certainly speaks to the quality of both the acting and the writing of the show that people can watch the same scene and see entirely different things going on "behind the scenes."

Basically, look at the above comment. Pete is just the right age that he barely remembers WW2, and missed Korea because he was too young. He just thinks Rodger has another motivation than he actually did.

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I got this same vibe and i'm kind of hoping they don't go there. There's enough material in seeing a girl come of age sexually in that era without adding on the melodrama of grandpa diddling her.

I can promise you that is not the case. I think it is interesting/sad that people would even go there and think Sally's/Eugene's relationship was creepy. The whole story there, including how Gene died, came straight from Weiner's life. And I also related to it (my grandmother moved in with us after her stroke, and died soon after). Gene was a prick, but he was actually just relating to Sally more than Bobby much like he did with Betty over her brother. Daddy's little girl/Grandpaw's little girl. Not sexual at all.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, so a couple of questions:
1.) Thoughts on Anna with the suitcase? Was there something there I was missing?
2.) Similarly, was there some symbolism with the mouse? I thought it was going to come back around to Samsonite, but that did not materialize
3.) Did Don's campaign suck? Peggy was asking him same questions Don asked and Don more or less bullied her at the end ... which is his right as the boss, but was the campaign a loser?

Anna and the suitcase was a tie to Samsonite. It was showing that when creative people have a problem it totally pervades in the whole lives while they work on it. No doubt there was symbolism there (checking on Don as she moved on to eternity), but Samsonite played into it. And yeah, Don's idea had problems.

Originally Posted by thesloppy

So, I've been discussing Mad Men at a few places, and this last episode, and the last shot in particular seem to have generated a divide among folks, as for what it means regarding Don's future.

I was surprised to see a number of people simply take Don's final gaze at Megan as some sort of wistful/casual/benign thing, another step on his path of enlightenment towards Don the Good Guy. On the other hand, it seemed pretty obvious to me that Don had come to question his entire being (or rather the life/being he had taken from the real Don Draper) and as everything was prepared to come crashing down, instead appeared to rebuild itself as a newer-better-stronger house of cards, his response was not to finally confront or abandon his assumed identity, but throwing himself back into it, once his bulletproof status had been re-affirmed. Likewise, to take Don's gaze on face value ignore that the entire episode had been spent showing how everything is SUPER on the surface at SCDP, but a shitstorm is definitely on the horizon.

Likewise, his postponement of a date with Faye right before the gaze seems an important image to me....if it meant nothing, there was no reason for it to even be mentioned, but for him to (somewhat coldly) dismiss Faye, so soon after both telling her his great secret and having the secret of their illicit relationship revealed (and Pete not particularly caring), says to me that her value may now be null (or at least lessened) to the new-old Don Draper. I think Don's gaze at Megan was definitely meant to hold some lust, towards something young, shiny and as-of-yet untouched by the creeping tendrils of his crappy life.

You caught it right on. Don really needed Faye when he was in trouble, but he's revealing the truth to her which should have made them closer, pretty much destroyed the chance that relationship was going to work. The way Weiner described it was that all of that work he was doing to be a "new man" was short-circuited with the trauma of this and the Lucky Strike pull-out. That left Faye as the odd-man out.

Originally Posted by AENeuman

I always thought the "jumper" in the opening credits would be a real person. Seems like it could be Roger... what a way to end the season if so

Actually, it was supposed to be Harry Crane at the end of the first season, but they liked the actor too much to kill him.

Originally Posted by kcchief19

You're not alone. I have a horrible sense of dread involving Sally. There's been a foreshadowing of something bad happening with Glen, and it may becoming to a head now that Betty wants to move to keep Sally and Glen apart. Don's a terrible father but Sally is her father's daughter -- something happening to Sally would hit him hard.

You know there's always a mindfreak in the Mad Men series finale ... we've already had SCDP go through the layoffs (is Bert Cooper really gone or did we see him back in the office at the end?).

As for Betty, I never cared for her even when we were supposed to. She's always seemed cold and ineffectual -- then again, maybe that's because January Jones is just an overrated actress.

This is one of those things that disturbs Weiner. Glenn is not supposed to be "creppy" and his and Sally's relationship is not a unhealthy one at all. The creepy came from Betty's relationship with him, not Glenn's reaction to it. Betty was/is a child and treated him as an equal. And now, Betty's treating him like a former boyfriend and is jealous of him and Sally. But Glenn just reaches out to Sally because they both are children of divorce. He is sort of mentoring her, and trying to help her in a way that a kid of his age could (like breaking into her house to vandalize it. It was wrong, but his motive was actually sweet). He and Sally are supposed to be a kid version of Peggy and Don. Not some kind of stalker-creepy sexual thing.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I guess I was hoping for more plotline about the business in the finale, given the state of the stories over the past year. I certainly expected something more dramatic.

I also think Don gravitated towards the secretary because she had demonstrated some good mothering skills with his kids, before this episode and again in California. Sure, the hot trophy wife thing was important and all, but I doubt that this was the only driver for him. I don't think hotness would have been enough to trump the advertising woman that he was with, as he seemed pretty satisfied with that relationship.

No surprise at all with Joan carrying the kid. Fun to think that "they are even bigger".

The Joan thing was more predictable than this show usually is. Then again, I knew Peggy was pregnant in the first season, and am surprised that the writers really thought they fooled people.

As for the Faye versus Megan: I was so upset that Don proposed. I was also expecting that it was a dream and that Don would wake up (or she would). But in the end, it shouldn't have been such a shock. Remember Faye told him the first episode of the season that he wouldn't remain single for more than year? Men at this time and in this business just didn't. And marrying the secretary was a cliche that came from truth. They almost always did.

Faye was not going to work out. It was over when he revealed himself to her, and he was relieved in a way when she first refused to help him with a business contact. Then, he slept with Megan. That fact that she was so mature in how she handled it, made her more attractive to him. She was still buzzing on his mind when he went back to Faye. Then the fates stepped in (and it was Betty's petty childishness that actually got them together is just awesome).

I was so mad about how this worked out till I had time to let it simmer on my mind. Then by the time I watched the commentaries, I saw it like the writers saw it (btw, this was the plan from the first episode, and Matt tried to back out a number of times, and the other writers kept him on task).

Like I stated above, Don's growth was halted by the trauma of losing Lucky Strike and his near miss at being revealed. Faye was becoming not what he needed at that point in his mind (she's bugging about handling his problem while all his energy was being spent on saving his business might have been right, but not want he could deal with at that time). Add to the fact that she was awkward at best, down right bad at worst with his kids made her a non-starter as a potential wife. He wanted at that point what his accountant suggested he needed ("Don't you want to come home to a steak in the pan?"). Faye was not going to be that for Don.

Enter Megan. She is young, but not too young (like the little blonde debutant that he dated, but was never really serious about). She was just an angel with his kids (I think the final nail in the proposal coffin was how she reacted to the kids spilling that milkshake. The look of shock at Don's and the kid's faces was priceless). And she didn't know and just really didn't care what Don had done before. If Don were to tell her, imho, I think her response would be almost just like Cooper's was in the first season. "Who you are is what room you are in." That was the past, I know and love the man you are now, would be her reaction.

As shocking, crazy, impulsive that engagment was, the final line is it is totally believable. And not really in the end as terrible a decision as you would think. If you made a list of Faye's and Megan's benefits/negatives, Megan wins. And that she is a young hotty doesn't hurt. But I think that is short-selling the real reason it happened. It helped, but was far from the only cause.

Where does that leave the characters going in to what will be a two year time jump? Megan has replaced Peggy in Don's life. Remember, her dream is to be a copy-writer. Peggy also wasn't the only one that saw what Don did with the letter, Megan did as well. Plus, she is going to be able to fulfill Don's needs in ways Peggy never could. She will be working as a writer by the time we come back. Don was setting that up with the "she looks up to you" thing. How will Peggy handle the loss of Don and dealing with her "rival" (business wise)? Where will the company be without Lucky Strike? (struggling but surviving would be my guess, even two years later). Will Betty's marriage survive? (That one I'm not sure of, but I;d be just as happy if she drops off a cliff). And Joan is going have a toddler. Where is her husband, and how's Rodger going to take it? Lots of interesting questions as we move into the mid-60's (race relations, Bobby and MLK assassinations, Vietnam escalation all coming).

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

I've been reading that we won't be getting our summer fix (season 5). I've been reading it could even be 2012 before we get our season due to money disputes

And you read right. But thank God, we are just looking at a month from now.

[Scoobz0202]

REMINDER

[jeff061]

Will be interesting to see what they came come up with to salvage the lame ending from last season.

[Radii]

can't wait!

[Scoobz0202]

Lets do this!

[hoopsguy]

I had to find AMC on AT&T U-verse just now ... was getting a little panicked for a sec until looking up the online channel guide and finding it was in some deserted island of channels.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

so...

Spoiler

she's using him?

great episode. just bummed where it's headed. also, open your blouse

[Bigsmooth]

Good episode but christ they actually managed to find Don a wife that is a worse actress than January Jones. Brutal.

[Scoobz0202]

I really enjoyed it. I'm just happy to have it back, really. One of the funnier episodes I've seen in awhile. They did a pretty good job of setting the foundation of some storylines. It'd been so long that I am kinda glad that they didn't come out swinging (not that Mad Men ever really comes out with a bang)

I'm slightly leery of which direction some of the plots will go, though. I'm not sure how I feel about this Don "I just don't really care anymore" Draper. While I thought the party was amazing, and the ZoobiZu (or whatever the hell it was) was amazing, I could see myself growing tired of the new wife FAST. Roger was great. Pete was back to his whiny self, but he is right this time.

Need more Sally Draper.

[Suicane75]

I'm loving the evolution of Pete Campbell.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I'm loving the evolution of Pete Campbell.

Yep, I thought he dominated the episodes.

So what the heck is the Brit doing? He seemed really incompetent without Joan around to help with the books, and that seemed like a fairly significant departure in his character.

Don being less invested in his work seems like a strange twist as well. That was the part of him that the viewer could unabashedly like; it was his personal life that inspired all the (to varying degrees) misgivings.

I wonder if Roger will actually invest time into getting business at some point, rather than pretty much everything but picking up the phone and calling people.

[JonInMiddleGA]

4.4m for the premiere (both airings combined) up 21% over last season premiere, apparently absence did indeed make the heart grow fonder.

That said, still slightly less than half the audience that The Walking Dead drew the week before.

[kcchief19]

Funny thing is that Mad Men put AMC on the map for original programming, yet the show has consistently been clobbered by other shows on the network. And it's bizarre because it seems like everyone I know watches the show.

As for the premiere, I thought it was bloated. This could have been edited down to a tight, fast-paced one-hour episode rather than a slow, bloated two-hour show.

Weiner obviously has planted the seeds for a lot of different plots, so let's see if anything becomes of them.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Funny thing is that Mad Men put AMC on the map for original programming, yet the show has consistently been clobbered by other shows on the network. And it's bizarre because it seems like everyone I know watches the show.

As I chuckled at last year, it's referred to in some circles as the best show to never reach a 1.0 rating This should be around a 1.25 A18-49, for the 1.6m watching the actual premiere, i.e. not including the repeat

The audience has actually been pretty narrow from the beginning. The qualitative ratings are quite good, the show is a hit with high income HH but beyond that it has scuffled in the mainstream. It's somewhere between being a niche show and a boutique show

Looking at last week's Sunday cable finals (haven't seen this week's yet), not only does it pale in comparison to TWD but also had a smaller total audience than Talking Dead and Discovery's Frozen Planet.

[Scoobz0202]

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Yep, I thought he dominated the episodes.

So what the heck is the Brit doing? He seemed really incompetent without Joan around to help with the books, and that seemed like a fairly significant departure in his character.

Don being less invested in his work seems like a strange twist as well. That was the part of him that the viewer could unabashedly like; it was his personal life that inspired all the (to varying degrees) misgivings.

I wonder if Roger will actually invest time into getting business at some point, rather than pretty much everything but picking up the phone and calling people.

Pete is a lot of fun. I'm glad to see the show returning to what was promised in the very first episode with Pete - a worthy opponent who lacks social understanding. He doesn't have to be a caricature, as he's sometimes been in the past.

Every season has focused on a different side of Don. This side may be the most jarring image. He has no interest in work because he's completely involved with Megan. We've never seen him in love before. He always has a hand on her - subtle touches like him guiding her through a room with a hand on her back.

This show has been accused of misogyny in the past, and I think it's misguided. Megan realized how her dancing affected how people relate to her and Don. Lane realized how his pursuing photo-Delores was despicable. Roger, of course, remains obtuse and about as offensive as humanly possible. It's a very pro-feminist look at a time when relations between the sexes were different.

I think the actress playing Megan is doing a good job. This is a very complex character. She hasn't yet revealed her motivations to anyone, so we're going to see her purposefully a bit wooden at times.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

Pete was back to his whiny self, but he is right this time.

What do you mean "this time"? I think its slowly but surely established that Pete, while a boar, is the one who is vindicated.

I thought it was a solid episode. I kind of like the dynamic of Don and Megan and how it makes Don care less about work and how one deals with a relationship between an older man and younger woman. Roger and Jane have a few years on them (and a larger age difference) and you can see how he's completely tired of Jane (and what an awesome prank Pete played on Roger with the Staten Island Coca-Cola meeting penciled in).

[Scoobz0202]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

What do you mean "this time"? I think its slowly but surely established that Pete, while a boar, is the one who is vindicated.

I was mainly referring to early in the show. The past season or so, while still not the most charming person, he has started to tone down the childish behavior. Perhaps that is because of him receiving the respect that he felt he always deserved, or the new family life, I don't know.

But early in the show, season one especially, Pete always came across as childish. He always seemed entitled and this was especially apparent due to his privileged upbringing. He always seemed like he lacked certain social skills. He was immature.

Perhaps whiny was poor choice of word, perhaps even the wrong word. His immaturity appeared to be coming back out, and his entitlement, but for me it appeared that his resentment is understood this time around. His lack of tact is apparent with Roger, but then again, he is only doing what Roger would do.

[ISiddiqui]

Regardless of how he was acting, he's been the most right about the future of the business since the beginning (seemingly).

[OldGiants]

It's been so long since this has been on that I'd completely forgotten Allison Brie of Community plays Pete's wife. Hope she gets her black lingerie moment.

[ISiddiqui]

Unfortunately I think she's going to continue to look slovenly so Pete's eye starts wandering again.

[ISiddiqui]

Speaking of Pete, while he may be right, his overconfidence is going to get smacked down.

Also when Roger told Peggy "Forget everything I told you, that's the last guy I hired", that it may have been somewhat foreshadowing?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ep 2 ratings down 17% A18-49 (from 1.2 to 1.0), Adults down pretty much the same, to 2.9m from 3.5m

[Radii]

I am late getting started here, we got AMC in HD in the last few months, my Mad Men season pass was on the non HD channel, so I waited until I could get an HD recording to watch.

The second hour of the premier was one of the funniest hours of Mad Men ever I do believe. Harry in Roger's office discussing Pete taking over Harry's office was classic from multiple angles. Harry: Ok, but you're gonna owe me. Roger: No I won't! I just gave you a bunch of money! this was a transaction.

I really like Megan and am curious to see what they do with her and with the relationship with Don this year. Though after last night I have a bad feeling Betty will be heavily involved and really who wants that?

The hitfix reviewer said it much nicer than I can:

"Mad Men" tends to move at a very measured, leisurely pace, but most of the time, I love that. I could have taken a good five more minutes of Don and Harry in Don's car after the Rolling Stones debacle, with Harry desperate to avoid going home, for instance. About the only time I actually become impatient with the pace is when we're spending as much time with Betty as we did tonight.

Also, Sally doesn't get a ton of screen time but it seems like she really shines any time she has something to do. One of the better kids on a TV show in my memory.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Radii

Also, Sally doesn't get a ton of screen time but it seems like she really shines any time she has something to do. One of the better kids on a TV show in my memory.

Agreed. She is really good. And I was disappointed that Betty didn't have cancer. Maybe she could get hit by a truck soon?

[DataKing]

Just when I think I might finally be able to develop some sympathy for Betty, I am reminded of why I detest her so much. Yes, please, have her get hit by a truck...

[thesloppy]

So....you're done with your sundae, then?

[DataKing]

It was actually the comment about the obese mother that reminded me why I detest Betty so...

[thesloppy]

I've seen lots of internet discussion about Don & Megan, and will it last, and when Don will fuck things up, but I think this one is going to go in a different direction. I think Megan is going to tire of Don and leave him, for once. To me, Megan seems to be taking on the shape of the first generation of the independent, 'enlightened' '60s woman, and although he's flirted with similar types he's still usually maintained the 'alpha' position in those relationships. Certainly Betty took a stand towards Don and sought out her own path, but not until Don's behavior forced her hand, and the situation to which she ran is hardly remarkable for her independence.

Megan has taken every opportunity to shrug off Don's dominance in the relationship, and perhaps most importantly, she's not afraid of him. In the 'party' episode, every woman on the cast took an opportunity to show their deference to Don, telling Megan in hushed tones that Don doesn't like parties or surprises, or worriedly wondering how he took such embarrassment, but Megan didn't care...or more to the point, she cared about HER feelings in the aftermath, rather than Don's, and she's consistently shown that she places herself on the same plane as Don, as far as their relationship is concerned. She's unwilling to take on Don's morose response to Betty's possible cancer, and won't allow him to settle into the funk he tries on immediately. "Aww, nobody loves Dick Whitman!" she says as she playfully mocks Don's most dear secret, with a levity that suggests he's not the most important person in the world, or even her life.

As Megan and the world surrounding them begin to outgrow the trappings of Don and his generation, I think he's going to be left behind, for once.

[wade moore]

Not sure how you guys are loving this.

I've found the first 3 hours of this season to be incredible boring. The more time the spend outside of the agency, the worse it becomes imo.

[thesloppy]

I haven't been counting the minutes or anything, but I'd be surprised if they actually were outside of the agency that much more than any season. Are you missing more of the advertising details specifically? I could see that, as the time they seem to have been devoting more time to the politics of the workplace, rather than the work itself.

[ISiddiqui]

Personally I love the exploration of the politics of the workplace. It tends to accomplish a similar goal of exploring who these individuals are underneath just as well as how they work through an advertizing job (I have heard a lot of folk lately say that Mad Men is a triumph of style over substance, and I'm sure that has to do with just focusing on advertizing details and nothing much happening - but slow moving shows can have a lot going on underneath).

[AENeuman]

Every season I expect the "jumper" from opening credits to actually happen.

The last episode may have given a clue when Roger said while looking out the window with the new guy: "we both want to throw something out this window."

[Radii]

-- Henry's mother is terrifying, holy crap. Poor Sally Draper.

-- Hooray Joan, fuck you Joan's rapey husband.

-- Both of the big scenes with Peggy were brilliant imo, and as is often the case, Peggy is heavily featured in my favorite parts of the show. Getting the money out of Roger and giddily counting it once she was alone was a wonderful scene, and the awkwardness of her conversation with Dawn in her apartment about how difficult it is to be a woman followed by the instinctual/almost involuntary look at the purse, so great.

[kcchief19]

Yeah, you really wonder how in the world Sally is ever going to be normal. Her adult influences appear to be setting her on the path to be just like Don, always toeing the line between genius and psychopath.

Speaking of blurring the line toward psychopath, I sure hope that was a fever dream and Megan didn't simply cover for Don. There is something "likable" about Don for all his horrendous faults because he has redeeming qualities. Regardless, it shows a dark side of Don.

The Peggy scenes were brilliant. I hope there is a gif file somewhere of Peggy counting Roger's money.

[Grover]

I want to know more about Ginsberg.

I'm assuming (correctly?) that he is gay, based on the end of his last episode. I liked the way he screwed things up after brilliantly sealing the deal for the footwear.

I liked the hallucination with Don choking out Andrea. I thought it was real at first, and then thought maybe it was Megan, but he thought it was Andrea.

I also agree with everything Radii said above. Henry's mother scares the shit out of me. Sally's going to be a messed up girl. I see a teenage pregnancy in her future.

Seems like everyone is beating up on Roger now, I suppose he's had it coming for a long time. Peggy's interaction with him was excellent, as was her scene with Dawn.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Not sure how you guys are loving this.

I've found the first 3 hours of this season to be incredible boring. The more time the spend outside of the agency, the worse it becomes imo.

the past couple seasons have been a little disappointing. it's gotten a little too soapy for me. but it's part of the problem of writing for a series. you end up blowing your wad early because you never know when the end is.

that said, i like matt weiner and there are still plenty of redeeming moments.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Speaking of blurring the line toward psychopath, I sure hope that was a fever dream and Megan didn't simply cover for Don. There is something "likable" about Don for all his horrendous faults because he has redeeming qualities. Regardless, it shows a dark side of Don.

More hitfix review and less original thought by me here... Sepinwall's review was talking about Don's internal struggle between *wanting* to be faithful to Megan but knowing that he is broken in many major ways and is either not capable of not cheating on her long term or at the very least is afraid of what he might do in the future.

Makes as much sense to me as anything.

The Peggy scenes were brilliant. I hope there is a gif file somewhere of Peggy counting Roger's money.

Originally Posted by Grover

Sally's going to be a messed up girl. I see a teenage pregnancy in her future.

Creepy Glen makes a triumphant return in the final season to knock her up. *shudders*

[kcchief19]

Sally has too much power to end up knocked up. I think the end for her is much darker. There is simply too much foreshadowing with her either getting killed or doing the killing. It would be a cop out at this point for Weiner to have a happy ending for Sally, even though that's what we all want.

I don't know, I think Don is capable of cheating on Megan but he's trying to be something he isn't. He's trying to be a good husband, but his work is suffering and I think the dream is his mind telling him that being something he isn't is eventually going to lead to a snap.

[jeff061]

I feel like I'm missing the significance of the purse and the awkwardness after that shot. Maybe I'm over analyzing? Did I glaze over an earlier scene that was setting it up?

[ISiddiqui]

When Peggy pauses (because there is $400 in the purse and she's leaving it in front of a stranger), there is also the thought that "what if Dawn thinks I'm being a racist". That's why it was awkward.

I did like the Ep, but I don't think anything sinister is going to happen to Sally. I think the point of the show is that we all have good and we all have bad (and we all, apparently, have parts of our past we want to strangle to death).

[jeff061]

Got it. Thanks.

[Grover]

Richard Speck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Grover

Richard Speck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah, looked that up while watching. That was some creepy crap.

[OldGiants]

I really love the way Mad Men take a fact from the era -- in this case how the ninth nurse hid under a bed -- and place it in many scenes. Dawn and Peggy sit in a room with a couch just like where the nurses were killed; Don shoves the illusion body under his bed; Sally winds up hiding under the couch Henry's mother is sitting on.

And then the Mystery Date game ad on the TV for the episode title rounding it all off.

[Scoobz0202]

Missed the last couple episodes so I just caught up to the DVR.

Nothing to really add. Regarding the start of the show being slow, I don't know. Mad Men has never been really episodic show, and while it has had more intense season starts, I think we may be in store for a good one. I found the third episode (second week) to be a little weak, but it still had its moments. But then I found the latest episode to be absolutely brilliant, and while it may not have been The Suitcase level, it was not far behind it.

I really feel like this season could get pretty crazy, though. As long as it stays plausible and doesn't just start doing straight bullshit, I'm ready.

[Grover]

The Emasculation of Pete Campbell.

Brilliant.

[Scoobz0202]

Guh. Was busy and DVR'ed. Gotta get up early but a buddy texted me saying it is far and away the best episode of the season and one of his favorites period.

Who needs sleep.

[Scoobz0202]

dola -

I seriously stood up out my seat for the fight scene. That was incredible.

- Has Don truly turned the page? Or is he always going to be broken and the inevitable fall will happen.

- Ken Consgrove is a awesome.

- Pete's the jumper from the credits. You heard it here first. (ok, not really. I'm just covering my bases so I can take credit. But this is probably an absurd assertion)

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

dola -

I seriously stood up out my seat for the fight scene. That was incredible.

You just knew Pete was gonna get his ass kicked.

By far one of my favorite eps of the show. It was efficiently ruthless.