Jesus is Love. Allah is Not. - Page 4

Izulde · 08-14-2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

I've found the Islamic golden rule the first time I've read the Koran

lungs, do you know exactly where that 9:111 quote is? I counted 111 lines into Surat 9 and can't find it anywhere.

JediKooter · 08-14-2009, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

I've found the Islamic golden rule the first time I've read the Koran

Sweet. It's kind of funny how some of the same 'themes' can be found in the koran, bible and the torah.

tarcone · 08-14-2009, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter

That's kind of what I'm talking about. I'm assuming, the way you are looking into the koran is with a skeptical 'eye', which is the exact same way (in my opinion) you should be looking at the bible.

Is it important to know why Jacob had many wives? Think of the context and the time it what was written. Relavent then, maybe not so much now, unless you are a mormon. Maybe there's a lesson or moral to the story, I don't really know. The problem is, there have been revisions to the bible and who knows if the translations were done 100% accurately.

Bingo. But it is still Gods word. In Jacobs time it was okay for this too happen.
There are things I will always question. But I will also believe this is Gods word .

Epi_862 · 08-14-2009, 01:03 AM

I swear to god (YES) that i never quite did figure out why completely nice and intelligent people turn into such fuckwads when they are talking about religion. Fear of death, fear of unkown? Dunno. It all seems to serve a single purpose, and that is to conform their own faith. But i digress...

Now, in most cases the people who go on these illogical, insane tirades are usually the people least informed about the subject they are talking about. Im willing to bet money the original poster has never read the bible. If he did, it was the "King Rick James" -version. But, again, i digress...

Now, the point is, people like you, the original poster, are whats wrong with society. No, really. What your essentially saying is "I love everyone and fuck you if you disagree, you fucking murderer". And since this is religion, you choose to not see your own fucking illogicality and lack of common sense. Ever occur to you, that different religions are just fragments of native culture and branches of the same basic belief? You really think if you were born in an Islamic family, that you would fucking ditch it for Jesus? JESUS CHRIST, these people sometimes.

A disclaimer: i myself, i do not represent a religion, but i wholly accept all of them. I can pray with a Christian minister like my mother, and right after that, i can kneel towards mecca and pray with my Islamic friend. Neither thinks im wrong, neither think they are wrong, nobody is wrong, and everyone gets to satisfy their humane need for religion in their own way - in a way that makes them feel right. Now that shit there, that is love. Fuck what YOU talking about.

You, you havent propably seen this.. Or maybe this IS you?

YouTube - My Preacher

Izulde · 08-14-2009, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Sweet. It's kind of funny how some of the same 'themes' can be found in the koran, bible and the torah.

And in other religions as well.

For example, one of the fundamental premises of Wicca and other related neopagan religions is, "Harm none."

lungs · 08-14-2009, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izulde

lungs, do you know exactly where that 9:111 quote is? I counted 111 lines into Surat 9 and can't find it anywhere.

This is all English so it's called The Immunity

[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement.

Here is the Koran I am working with.

lungs · 08-14-2009, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

[60:6] A good example has been set by them for those who seek GOD and the Last Day. As for those who turn away, GOD is in no need (of them), Most Praiseworthy.

[60:7] GOD may change the animosity between you and them into love. GOD is Omnipotent. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

[60:9] GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

In this context it doesnt seem to forgiving.

?

Don't befriend those who try to kill you because of your religion? I guess I don't see a big deal with that.

tarcone · 08-14-2009, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epi_862

I swear to god (YES) that i never quite did figure out why completely nice and intelligent people turn into such fuckwads when they are talking about religion. Fear of death, fear of unkown? Dunno. It all seems to serve a single purpose, and that is to conform their own faith. But i digress...

Now, in most cases the people who go on these illogical, insane tirades are usually the people least informed about the subject they are talking about. Im willing to bet money the original poster has never read the bible. If he did, it was the "King Rick James" -version. But, again, i digress...

Now, the point is, people like you, the original poster, are whats wrong with society. No, really. What your essentially saying is "I love everyone and fuck you if you disagree, you fucking murderer". And since this is religion, you choose to not see your own fucking illogicality and lack of common sense. Ever occur to you, that different religions are just fragments of native culture and branches of the same basic belief? You really think if you were born in an Islamic family, that you would fucking ditch it for Jesus? JESUS CHRIST, these people sometimes.

A disclaimer: i myself, i do not represent a religion, but i wholly accept all of them. I can pray with a Christian minister like my mother, and right after that, i can kneel towards mecca and pray with my Islamic friend. Neither thinks im wrong, neither think they are wrong, nobody is wrong, and everyone gets to satisfy their humane need for religion in their own way - in a way that makes them feel right. Now that shit there, that is love. Fuck what YOU talking about.

You, you havent propably seen this.. Or maybe this IS you?

YouTube - My Preacher

Im in the process of reading the Bible. NIV. And again I dont think I said anything of the sort about disagreeing. I pray for you. Not F. you. That would be wrong.
Fear of death. Nope. Death is sleep. I will evetually wake up in Heavan. Death is the least of my worries.

JediKooter · 08-14-2009, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

Bingo. But it is still Gods word. In Jacobs time it was okay for this too happen.
There are things I will always question. But I will also believe this is Gods word .

Ok, let's stick with, 'it is gods word'...If god is infallable, then he/she/it would have known that in the future, it would be against society norms to have more than one wife. So, why have it commited to print if things are going to change?

I know the answer, personally, but, I have to ask the question.

tarcone · 08-14-2009, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

?

Don't befriend those who try to kill you because of your religion? I guess I don't see a big deal with that.

But the Bible says to forgive your enemies.

DaddyTorgo · 08-14-2009, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

Jesus was a man. He did not bring bears on anyone.

you're inconsistent here. earlier you state that jesus was divine. here you are stating he is not divine. you can't have it both ways.

JediKooter · 08-14-2009, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izulde

And in other religions as well.

For example, one of the fundamental premises of Wicca and other related neopagan religions is, "Harm none."

True. I think it's buddism (I could be wrong) where it's, you don't harm any living thing, flies, birds, dogs, etc...

tarcone · 08-14-2009, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Ok, let's stick with, 'it is gods word'...If god is infallable, then he/she/it would have known that in the future, it would be against society norms to have more than one wife. So, why have it commited to print if things are going to change?

I know the answer, personally, but, I have to ask the question.

God gave us free will. God sees all at all times. There is no future, past or present to Him.
Free will is what man uses in all his decisions and actions. God has a plan for us all. But you choose your path.

tarcone · 08-14-2009, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

you're inconsistent here. earlier you state that jesus was divine. here you are stating he is not divine. you can't have it both ways.

Yes. Jesus is Man and God.

Groundhog · 08-14-2009, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

But the Bible says to forgive your enemies.

To paraphrase a very wise man (Duffman); The Bible says a lot of things.... Oooooh yeah!

lungs · 08-14-2009, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

But the Bible says to forgive your enemies.

I think the Koran is a little more honest about human nature.

RainMaker · 08-14-2009, 01:15 AM

Tarcone, all I will say is this. You should read the Bible someday. I'm not talking about websites from people who have read the Bible and given you their interpretation. I'm talking about sitting down and reading the Bible on your own. Perhaps it will give you stronger resolve, but you seem to have this belief that the Bible is something it is not.

tarcone · 08-14-2009, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

I think the Koran is a little more honest about human nature.

God wants us to be Christ-like. That is the goal. Human nature is to sin. We all sin.

Groundhog · 08-14-2009, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter

True. I think it's buddism (I could be wrong) where it's, you don't harm any living thing, flies, birds, dogs, etc...

Yeah, that's Buddhist. "All creatures hang from the thread of life with the same urgency, so respect all creatures." or something like that is the best way I've seen it phrased.

tarcone · 08-14-2009, 01:18 AM

Im going to suggest a book to read. It is a great read. It was written by a hard core atheist. One who found Jesus.
It is very well written and enlightening.

Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis

If you have any interest in this conversation which some of you do. Check this book out.

Groundhog · 08-14-2009, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

God wants us to be Christ-like. That is the goal. Human nature is to sin. We all sin.

An impossible goal. Nice.

JediKooter · 08-14-2009, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

God gave us free will. God sees all at all times. There is no future, past or present to Him.
Free will is what man uses in all his decisions and actions. God has a plan for us all. But you choose your path.

Ah but, there is a past, present and future for us and it is that context and the only context we humans understand and have experienced. Don't get me wrong, would love to get a hold of a Delorean that's a time machine, but, I'm not holding my breath.

Free will doesn't exist if god has a plan for us. Sounds like a plot hole if you think about it...regardless of which path you take, you will end up in the place that was already chosen for you.

In my opinion, free will would exist if god has a complete and total hands off approach from begining to end.

Izulde · 08-14-2009, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

This is all English so it's called The Immunity

[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement.

Here is the Koran I am working with.

Okay, found it.

Here's what my translation (which is from Saudi Arabia and appears to have been put together through extensive and exhaustive work from multiple scholars, so I'd imagine it's pretty good) says:

S.9.A.111 - "Allah hath purchased of the Believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise): They fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain: A promise beinding on Him in Truth, through the Torah, The gospel, and th Qur-an: And who is more faithful to his Covenant than Allah?"

RainMaker · 08-14-2009, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

I think I am not helping. Things are getting muddled between the Old Testamnet and the New Testament.

I will refrain from the Old Testamnet. Jesus is Love, its that simple.

It is the same God. How can you differentiate the two? How can you sit here and argue about evolution and life by using Genesis but then deny the Old Testament in discussion about whether God is loving?

It's like taking a serial murderer and saying "well he helped out with his local charity a lot". In the end you can't differentiate the two and say that the murdering aspect gets completely ignored. If you believe in that God, you have to believe in the good and bad. You can't just ignore the parts of God you don't like.

tarcone · 08-14-2009, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog

An impossible goal. Nice.

Not impossible. No one will acheive it until Heaven. the idea is too work and live Christ-like.

This my impression.

lungs · 08-14-2009, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

God wants us to be Christ-like. That is the goal. Human nature is to sin. We all sin.

Look, it's getting late and I'll be going around in circles all night if I don't stop soon.

So let me get back to the original title of this thread that got me going.

'Jesus is Love. Allah is not.'

There is plenty of love from Allah to his believers. They may not go about it in the same way as you do. You may not think it is the right way. But the title of this thread is simply false and I've hope I've educated you a bit, because I know I've educated myself a bit tonight. If Allah was not loving, but a hateful vengeful God commanding his followers to kill non-believers, I think I'd be dead by now due to my association with a few Muslims, as a non-believer myself.

Pray for them all you want, it's your prerogative. But don't spew false things about their beliefs.

Fidatelo · 08-14-2009, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

Im in the process of reading the Bible.

It's bad enough you trash the Koran based on a couple random passages, but if you haven't even finished the damn Bible, what the fuck are we all doing here? Jesus fucking Christ on a stick.

lungs · 08-14-2009, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izulde

Okay, found it.

Here's what my translation (which is from Saudi Arabia and appears to have been put together through extensive and exhaustive work from multiple scholars, so I'd imagine it's pretty good) says:

S.9.A.111 - "Allah hath purchased of the Believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise): They fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain: A promise beinding on Him in Truth, through the Torah, The gospel, and th Qur-an: And who is more faithful to his Covenant than Allah?"

Both of our translations seem to be a bit different than tarcone's. Wonder where he got his?

tarcone · 08-14-2009, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Ah but, there is a past, present and future for us and it is that context and the only context we humans understand and have experienced. Don't get me wrong, would love to get a hold of a Delorean that's a time machine, but, I'm not holding my breath.

Free will doesn't exist if god has a plan for us. Sounds like a plot hole if you think about it...regardless of which path you take, you will end up in the place that was already chosen for you.

In my opinion, free will would exist if god has a complete and total hands off approach from begining to end.

But you have to get there. You can choose which way to go. And maybe Gods plan will change. Plans can change.

We cannot begin to understand God. He sees all, all the time. Time is a man made tool.

Izulde · 08-14-2009, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

Im going to suggest a book to read. It is a great read. It was written by a hard core atheist. One who found Jesus.
It is very well written and enlightening.

Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis

If you have any interest in this conversation which some of you do. Check this book out.

Actually, from what I remember, C.S. Lewis was originally Catholic and converted to Anglicism, which greatly upset J.R.R. Tolkien. I don't recall anything about his being atheist.

I could be wrong, though.

Izulde · 08-14-2009, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

Both of our translations seem to be a bit different than tarcone's. Wonder where he got his?

Through someone who played re-arrange with the words to create a different slant and meaning, it looks like.

tarcone · 08-14-2009, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

It's bad enough you trash the Koran based on a couple random passages, but if you haven't even finished the damn Bible, what the fuck are we all doing here? Jesus fucking Christ on a stick.

Why try and help others see the light? Because thats what Jesus wants.

Fidatelo · 08-14-2009, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

Why try and help others see the light? Because thats what Jesus wants.

How do you know Jesus doesn't recant all his prior lessons and start killing hobos around page 1272?

cyril · 08-14-2009, 01:27 AM

Tarcone,

Your persistance on this subject is to be admired. if you are truly in the process of learning and questioning as you claimed you are, why not enlist a friend who is not affiliated with either (or any) religion. Have him or her pick up a dozens of verses from both the Bible and Koran. Also have him/her change those give-away words (like Jesus), type them up in a uniform way, re-order all the verses and let you read them.

You may be surprised to see more commonalities than differences between these, and you may be even more surprised at yourself not be able to tell which verses are from which with accuracy.

Neon_Chaos · 08-14-2009, 01:30 AM

COME ON.

If you're going to recommend a CS Lewis book, at least recommend The Chronicles of Narnia.

JediKooter · 08-14-2009, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

But you have to get there. You can choose which way to go. And maybe Gods plan will change. Plans can change.

We cannot begin to understand God. He sees all, all the time. Time is a man made tool.

Right, you have to get there, but, if it's already known to god where you are going to go...see what I'm getting at? I'll have to disagree with you on the change of plans though. If god can change his/her/its mind, then maybe he/she/it is wrong about gays and gay marriage or may change his/hers/its mind? Not trying to change the subject to gay marriage, just using it as an example.

I thought understanding god, was one of the reasons for the bible? Time is definitely a tool and so are some men.

Neon_Chaos · 08-14-2009, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

Time is a man made tool.

So is the Bible.

Cringer · 08-14-2009, 01:33 AM

All I know is Jesus will return next week to sign for this ladies new car...

Quote:

Emma Kim-Tashis Harrison, 25, walked into the Coggin Pontiac dealership in Jacksonville looking for some new wheels.
She settled on a car that cost nearly $70,000, but things hit a snag when she grabbed her checkbook, reports the Jacksonville Times-Union.
A representative from a California bank told the dealership's financial guy that the account Harrison supplied was bad.
So were the names on the check, which was signed "Mr. and Mrs. Jesus and Emma Christ."
Oh, and Harrison has never had a driver's license.
And where was her husband in all this?
She said Jesus Christ would return next week to sign the paperwork and pick up the car.

hxxp://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/specials/weirdflorida/blog/2009/08/emma_kimtashis_harrison_25_wal.html

Fidatelo · 08-14-2009, 01:33 AM

I think tool was the wrong word to bring up at this point.

tarcone · 08-14-2009, 01:34 AM

[9:111] GOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of GOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph.

Here is another from the authorized English translation of the Koran.

Fidatelo · 08-14-2009, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cringer

All I know is Jesus will return next week to sign for this ladies new car...

...
A representative from a California bank told the dealership's financial guy that the account Harrison supplied was bad.
...

hxxp://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/specials/weirdflorida/blog/2009/08/emma_kimtashis_harrison_25_wal.html

That is some quality writing right there. I wonder how many resumes get sent in when that dealership puts out a "wanted: financial guy" ad?

lungs · 08-14-2009, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

[9:111] GOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of GOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph.

Here is another from the authorized English translation of the Koran.

Funny, it references the Jewish, the Christian and the Muslim holy books in this verse.

Izulde · 08-14-2009, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

[9:111] GOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of GOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph.

Here is another from the authorized English translation of the Koran.

Authorized by who? That's a terrible translation.

tarcone · 08-14-2009, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I think tool was the wrong word to bring up at this point.

Why? Im having a hard time with this statement.

Fidatelo · 08-14-2009, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

Why? Im having a hard time with this statement.

Of course you are.

RainMaker · 08-14-2009, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

[9:111] GOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of GOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph.

Here is another from the authorized English translation of the Koran.

I don't get the point. Both books have tons of nasty passages like this. We can go back and forth posting quotes from the Qur'an and the Bible. Both will end up looking like shit. Is your defense of the Bible simply that the Qur'an is more ruthless?

The point shouldn't be that one is better than the other, it should be that they were books written many years ago that are outdated and should have no bearing on society.

tarcone · 08-14-2009, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Right, you have to get there, but, if it's already known to god where you are going to go...see what I'm getting at? I'll have to disagree with you on the change of plans though. If god can change his/her/its mind, then maybe he/she/it is wrong about gays and gay marriage or may change his/hers/its mind? Not trying to change the subject to gay marriage, just using it as an example.

I thought understanding god, was one of the reasons for the bible? Time is definitely a tool and so are some men.

Free will. It is your decision to sin. If you sin and not truly believe in Jesus, you go to Hell. If you renounce your sins and believe. You go to Heavan.

tarcone · 08-14-2009, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Of course you are.

So you cant explain your meaning?

Izulde · 08-14-2009, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't get the point. Both books have tons of nasty passages like this.

It's actually a pretty bad translation. It doesn't read like a native Arabic speaker translated it.

tarcone · 08-14-2009, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't get the point. Both books have tons of nasty passages like this. We can go back and forth posting quotes from the Qur'an and the Bible. Both will end up looking like shit. Is your defense of the Bible simply that the Qur'an is more ruthless?

The point shouldn't be that one is better than the other, it should be that they were books written many years ago that are outdated and should have no bearing on society.

So Love and caring and charity have no bearing on society? Therein lies the problem.

08-14-2009, 01:30 AM	#185
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	COME ON. If you're going to recommend a CS Lewis book, at least recommend The Chronicles of Narnia. __________________ Come and see.

08-14-2009, 01:33 AM	#189
Fidatelo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB	I think tool was the wrong word to bring up at this point. __________________ "Breakfast? Breakfast schmekfast, look at the score for God's sake. It's only the second period and I'm winning 12-2. Breakfasts come and go, Rene, but Hartford, the Whale, they only beat Vancouver maybe once or twice in a lifetime."

08-14-2009, 01:03 AM	#154
Epi_862 Mascot Join Date: Mar 2008	I swear to god (YES) that i never quite did figure out why completely nice and intelligent people turn into such fuckwads when they are talking about religion. Fear of death, fear of unkown? Dunno. It all seems to serve a single purpose, and that is to conform their own faith. But i digress... Now, in most cases the people who go on these illogical, insane tirades are usually the people least informed about the subject they are talking about. Im willing to bet money the original poster has never read the bible. If he did, it was the "King Rick James" -version. But, again, i digress... Now, the point is, people like you, the original poster, are whats wrong with society. No, really. What your essentially saying is "I love everyone and fuck you if you disagree, you fucking murderer". And since this is religion, you choose to not see your own fucking illogicality and lack of common sense. Ever occur to you, that different religions are just fragments of native culture and branches of the same basic belief? You really think if you were born in an Islamic family, that you would fucking ditch it for Jesus? JESUS CHRIST, these people sometimes. A disclaimer: i myself, i do not represent a religion, but i wholly accept all of them. I can pray with a Christian minister like my mother, and right after that, i can kneel towards mecca and pray with my Islamic friend. Neither thinks im wrong, neither think they are wrong, nobody is wrong, and everyone gets to satisfy their humane need for religion in their own way - in a way that makes them feel right. Now that shit there, that is love. Fuck what YOU talking about. You, you havent propably seen this.. Or maybe this IS you? YouTube - My Preacher

08-14-2009, 01:15 AM	#167
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	Tarcone, all I will say is this. You should read the Bible someday. I'm not talking about websites from people who have read the Bible and given you their interpretation. I'm talking about sitting down and reading the Bible on your own. Perhaps it will give you stronger resolve, but you seem to have this belief that the Bible is something it is not.

08-14-2009, 01:18 AM	#170
tarcone Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pacific	Im going to suggest a book to read. It is a great read. It was written by a hard core atheist. One who found Jesus. It is very well written and enlightening. Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis If you have any interest in this conversation which some of you do. Check this book out.

08-14-2009, 01:27 AM	#184
cyril Mascot Join Date: Dec 2008	Tarcone, Your persistance on this subject is to be admired. if you are truly in the process of learning and questioning as you claimed you are, why not enlist a friend who is not affiliated with either (or any) religion. Have him or her pick up a dozens of verses from both the Bible and Koran. Also have him/her change those give-away words (like Jesus), type them up in a uniform way, re-order all the verses and let you read them. You may be surprised to see more commonalities than differences between these, and you may be even more surprised at yourself not be able to tell which verses are from which with accuracy.

08-14-2009, 01:34 AM	#190
tarcone Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pacific	[9:111] GOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of GOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph. Here is another from the authorized English translation of the Koran.

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