Crazy wierd thing with rookie contracts...anyone ever seen this? - Page 4

Chubby · 10-13-2005, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WrongWay

I don't understand your example. I compared this to the Denver/Elway situation where they entered into an illegal agreement so they could cheat the NFL's salary cap.

And, actually, I am the Whistle Blower on this one.

well it's a little impossible to kick a team out of the NFL now isn't it? so try again.

yet you seem to think a slap on the wrist for something this major is fine. mindboggling.

WrongWay · 10-13-2005, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

well it's a little impossible to kick a team out of the NFL now isn't it? so try again.

yet you seem to think a slap on the wrist for something this major is fine. mindboggling.

Seems I remember MLB kicking an owner out? Marge Schott?

I have not said anything about punishment, except I haope the rules committe throws the book at him.

Nwobhm · 10-13-2005, 01:18 AM

There's 20 AI controlled teams in the FastFL currently.. perhaps they just need to keep him for the league's sake?

RailsFS · 10-13-2005, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nwobhm

There's 20 AI controlled teams in the FastFL currently.. perhaps they just need to keep him for the league's sake?

Numbers-wise, we should keep him. My ethics/morals (whatever you want to call them) tell me not to keep him, however. The real question is: Is there a fair way to punish him, other than removing him from the league. The word fair I'm sure means different things to different people. GMac's idea of fair is probably different from say, most of the members on this board. I personally have been unable to come up with a punishment that seems fair to me, other than removal from the league. This matter will be handled very soon, I can assure you.

The league's number of participants has been an issue since our original commisioner decided to quit without notifying the league. We once were about 90% full, but many decided to quit the league after that show of instability. Thankfully, Packrat stepped up and got the league going again. Our league is the closest thing out there to a SP paced league (that being it's main draw), and it will keep on going whether or not GMac is a part of it. We can, and have, made due with less owners. So losing one owner is not much of an issue here.

WrongWay · 10-13-2005, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

Like I said, you show me an NFL team that goes releases a player from another team and then signs them for themselves before anyone else gets a chance (or something similar) and we'll talk.

This example right here would be grounds for a Death Penalty as you have an owner cheating another owner out of a player in order to better his team.

Getting back to the actual foul, you have an owner cheating one of his own players out of his base salary. No other owners in this league were directly harmed by this action. And, I bet this contract currently complies with the FFL's 66% bonus rule.

There is a difference between trying to cheat the Salary Cap and trying to cheat an Owner.

BTW-- I think if Both Rookies have their salaries renogiated next year for exactly what the computer is asking and the team loses their 1st round pick in the draft that would be a fair punishment.

Chubby · 10-13-2005, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WrongWay

Seems I remember MLB kicking an owner out? Marge Schott?

I have not said anything about punishment, except I haope the rules committe throws the book at him.

no, you have said you don't think it's fair to give him the death penalty.

so now you're comparing it to someone spouting off about nazis. you're all over the board, it's comical, really.

clearly you are on another planet on this.

WrongWay · 10-13-2005, 01:43 AM

Chubby, once again I will have to say I don't understand. I was answering your question about it being impossible to kick a team out of the NFL. It may be impossible to kick a team out, but it is possible to kick an owner out.

I was not comparing what Pat Bowlin and the Denver Broncos did to what Marge Schott did. I was just showing that a league can kick an owner out.

BTW I think I am incorrect because Marge Schott was just suspended right? Or maybe is was one of those crazy Life-Time Bans, which means you can come back in a couple of years.

MrBigglesworth · 10-13-2005, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RailsFS

Numbers-wise, we should keep him. My ethics/morals (whatever you want to call them) tell me not to keep him, however. The real question is: Is there a fair way to punish him, other than removing him from the league. The word fair I'm sure means different things to different people. GMac's idea of fair is probably different from say, most of the members on this board. I personally have been unable to come up with a punishment that seems fair to me, other than removal from the league. This matter will be handled very soon, I can assure you.

The league's number of participants has been an issue since our original commisioner decided to quit without notifying the league. We once were about 90% full, but many decided to quit the league after that show of instability. Thankfully, Packrat stepped up and got the league going again. Our league is the closest thing out there to a SP paced league (that being it's main draw), and it will keep on going whether or not GMac is a part of it. We can, and have, made due with less owners. So losing one owner is not much of an issue here.

My guess is, you won't have to worry about it. He's logged in since the commissioner tried to contact him, and since the thread was posted on the FastFL board (btw, I don't think whoever did that should have done that, it should have been dealt with by members of the league). You may never hear from him again, he'll just be another guy signing up for a league somewhere under a different name. Make a note of his IP.

Alf · 10-13-2005, 04:19 AM

my point here : some guys are morons and I don't want to play with them. It is either them being sumped out of the league, or I quit. This is a game, and I play games for fun. I don't want to play with morons.

Darkiller · 10-13-2005, 04:27 AM

I'm amazed someone would do that...
There is no question that he cheated on purpose so he has to be kicked off of his leagues.

As a matter of fact, I don't even see the point in Jim fixing that issue because if a guy wants to cheat, well...he cheats and he is stupid.
Playing online leagues is great fun and if the guy feels he can have more fun by cheating on the other owners then there is nothing much you can do for that.

cthomer5000 · 10-13-2005, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

I'm just starting to look through some of his other leagues. I'm not able to look at previous seasons for the PFL as they don't have their league files archived on the site (and they haven't done the draft yet this season), but this guy is a real piece of work as far as I can tell.

There's some seriously frightening stuff in this thread (stuff i had no freakin' idea was possible, but i wouldn't say this contract is necessarily a red flag. In general you can get a player to accept a contract of significantly lower overall value if you really pump up the bonus dollars. It's a realistic tradeof too, IMHO.

Still, if someone can hack their way in as commish, it would mean they could keep re-running stages until they found the exact breaking point for contracts, meaning they would never need to spend a penny more than necessary on any player.

Again, some scary, scary stuff in here. I was oblivious to the fact that this was possible.

Joe · 10-13-2005, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WrongWay

This example right here would be grounds for a Death Penalty as you have an owner cheating another owner out of a player in order to better his team.

Getting back to the actual foul, you have an owner cheating one of his own players out of his base salary. No other owners in this league were directly harmed by this action. And, I bet this contract currently complies with the FFL's 66% bonus rule.

There is a difference between trying to cheat the Salary Cap and trying to cheat an Owner.

BTW-- I think if Both Rookies have their salaries renogiated next year for exactly what the computer is asking and the team loses their 1st round pick in the draft that would be a fair punishment.

You don't think that by cheating the salary cap he was cheating the other owners who play by the rules? What about the additional free agents he was probably able to bring in due to his paying less for rookies than he should have been able to? Shit, he probably did this the season he won the championship in that league.

Bee · 10-13-2005, 06:56 AM

I don't even see how people can consider this an issue as to whether or not he should be kicked out. If I were in the league and he wasn't gone, I'd be sending in my resignation to the league. There's too many leagues out there to deal with this kind of crap.

Blackadar · 10-13-2005, 07:03 AM

We're not talking about using an AI exploit. We're talking about blatent cheating.

It's been shown before. If he'll cheat once, he'll cheat again. And he has. The dickless weenie should be kicked out of all leagues forever.

Samdari · 10-13-2005, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Still, if someone can hack their way in as commish, it would mean they could keep re-running stages until they found the exact breaking point for contracts, meaning they would never need to spend a penny more than necessary on any player.

Its not exactly hacking Corey - its pretty easy to start a game as a commish and as a team on the same machine (don't many leagues have an owner as commish). I think many of us did this in the early days of FOF2k4's release, before any leagues really started, being curious about the mechanics of multiplayer. Didn't you do this yourself, testing how the draft sliders worked?

stevew · 10-13-2005, 07:10 AM

Man, i cant believe that someone sat at their desk and figured out how to do something like this, to basically invent a cheat. Once it cheat was out there, it wasnt hard to replicate....I guess i just cant see doing something like this to save a few million dollars over a few years. Wow.

jeff061 · 10-13-2005, 07:19 AM

Remind me not to play in any league that WrongWay has any authority in. This is a no brainer, I'd quit my league if someone did this and wasn't kicked out immediatly. There is no explanation or excuse.

WrongWay · 10-13-2005, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061

Remind me not to play in any league that WrongWay has any authority in.

Your in luck, because I do not have authority in any leagues, nor do I want it. I guess I am just to easy on people.

But, you really believe that the NFL should of kicked both John Elway and PAt Bowlin out of football for trying to cheat the Salary Cap?

jeff061 · 10-13-2005, 07:27 AM

I really don't care what the NFL would do. It has nothing to do with this.

stevew · 10-13-2005, 07:32 AM

This has nothing to do with the NFL. What it has to do with is some dork who exploited a piece of code in a video game for his own personal gain. He's a douchebag, plain and simple.

WrongWay · 10-13-2005, 07:35 AM

BTW it is not "cheating".

The NFL calls it "salary cap circumvention"

gottimd · 10-13-2005, 07:44 AM

It doesn't matter what the NFL says it is. The NFL is real life. This is just a sim game. The comparison should be made to other games, where people are competing for fun, on the basis that they are all competing on the same level and no one has an advantage.

WrongWay · 10-13-2005, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottimd

It doesn't matter what the NFL says it is. The NFL is real life. This is just a sim game. The comparison should be made to other games, where people are competing for fun, on the basis that they are all competing on the same level and no one has an advantage.

Edit: Nevermind, because you are talking about an actual "Game" and not some kind of sporting event.

WSUCougar · 10-13-2005, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bee

I don't even see how people can consider this an issue as to whether or not he should be kicked out. If I were in the league and he wasn't gone, I'd be sending in my resignation to the league. There's too many leagues out there to deal with this kind of crap.

Ditto

sovereignstar · 10-13-2005, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

There's some seriously frightening stuff in this thread (stuff i had no freakin' idea was possible, but i wouldn't say this contract is necessarily a red flag. In general you can get a player to accept a contract of significantly lower overall value if you really pump up the bonus dollars. It's a realistic tradeof too, IMHO.

Were you skimming this thread?

wade moore · 10-13-2005, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

I am 99% sure this guy applied for a spot in the CFL.

I have so much cap room in the CFL, everyone probably thinks I cheat.

No, we just think you stink

A-Husker-4-Life · 10-13-2005, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

I am 99% sure this guy applied for a spot in the CFL.

I have so much cap room in the CFL, everyone probably thinks I cheat.

Thank the lord he's not part of the CFL, we dodged a bullet with this shady character... Oh and BTW we don't think you cheat GE, we just think you're cheap.

Blackadar · 10-13-2005, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WrongWay

Your in luck, because I do not have authority in any leagues, nor do I want it. I guess I am just to easy on people.

But, you really believe that the NFL should of kicked both John Elway and PAt Bowlin out of football for trying to cheat the Salary Cap?

WW, your point makes no sense. The NFL is goverened not just by bylaws, but by real legal preceedents, legal standings, negotiated labor deals, contracts and also has to consider image, money, TV contracts and so on and so forth. The sums of money are vast. They just can't kick out Pat Bowlin for trying to circumnavigate the salary cap. They'd get sued out the ass - and rightfully so.

An online league contains none of that. It's just a gentlemen's agreement to follow the rules. This loser purposely and deliberately broke those rules in an effort to improve his team. There's no mistake about it and no excuse for it. He should be instantly banned from all his teams and his IP noted so that he never gets another chance to play with anyone again.

If you won't understand the difference between the NFL and a simple online FOF league, then you're being purposely obtuse. If you can't understand the difference, then you're just an idiot.

QuikSand · 10-13-2005, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Still, if someone can hack their way in as commish, it would mean they could keep re-running stages until they found the exact breaking point for contracts, meaning they would never need to spend a penny more than necessary on any player.

This, to me, is a pretty big deal -- and regrettably is probably something that can't be easily caught by members of an ordinary online league. Very worrisome.

The best thing you can do is pick your colleagues well, I guess. To the extent you control that.

Raiders Army · 10-13-2005, 09:38 AM

Makes me glad I play SP only. I did dabble in the HFL for a season, but didn't have the time to keep it up.

PackerFanatic · 10-13-2005, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nwobhm

There's 20 AI controlled teams in the FastFL currently.. perhaps they just need to keep him for the league's sake?

If only it were that easy.

Plain and simple, no matter HOW many computer teams we had, I could not, in my right mind, keep a blantant cheater on board with us. Yes, it hurts to lose a valued member of our league, one that has been around just as long as I have, but I cannot have a member in my league that is making things unfun for the rest of the league. You may think its harsh, you may think its rash, but my balls are on the bandsaw right now, there is no other punishment that can be handed out here.

On that note, if anyone wants to join the FastFL, we have plenty of openings

We put up with no shit

QuikSand · 10-13-2005, 09:45 AM

Looks like the offending FastFL team owner has jumped before he was (possibly) pushed. But he did suggest that it's been a prevalent cheat in that league and others.

I don't know how one goes back to check for this sort of thing... but I know if I were in a league with the likely candidates, I'd be looking for a way... and preparing my post in the "league openings" thread here.

GoldenEagle · 10-13-2005, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wade moore

No, we just think you stink

Memphis: 4-3
Tampa Bay: 1-5

Memphis record all time vs. Tampa Bay: 3-0

Enough said.

wade moore · 10-13-2005, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Memphis: 4-3
Tampa Bay: 1-5

Memphis record all time vs. Tampa Bay: 3-0

Enough said.

Never said I didn't stink more...

twothree · 10-13-2005, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Looks like the offending FastFL team owner has jumped before he was (possibly) pushed. But he did suggest that it's been a prevalent cheat in that league and others.

I don't know how one goes back to check for this sort of thing... but I know if I were in a league with the likely candidates, I'd be looking for a way... and preparing my post in the "league openings" thread here.

Taken from the FastFL board, GMac's reply:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMac

I wasn't in hiding, I've been on the boards checking on what's going happen. When I made the move I didn't think I was cheating, I've seen it happen in this league and others, in fact that's how I saw how it was done.

If I wanted to cheat there are a lot less obvious ways to do it and as I said to the Commish, I don't see a point in cheating in a league that is just for fun. Obviously though, after reading just the first part of that thread, everyone else feels very strongly that I have in fact cheated and I can understand why.

But my reasoning is this, he is my player on my roster, I hate the way the Rookie contracts are structured. If you notice, all my players have similarly structured contracts.

There is very little benefit on my part for doing it, I save a bit of money toward the end of the contract, but I have to pay a lot more the first couple of seasons, plus I am locked into the guy for the length of the contract, even if he turns into a bust. The only benefit I receive is a lower salary at the end of the contract...which I paid for at the beginning of the contract.

No matter what the Commish decides, I think I will have to resign. Which is really hard to do, considering how much time I have put in this league and how much fun I have here. I really hope the league starts to prosper again and good luck to everybody, in the game and in life. I've had fun and hope everybody else continues to do so.

GMac

Unreal.

PackerFanatic · 10-13-2005, 10:02 AM

Heh, I don't have to do anything, everyone is doing it for me!

Blackadar · 10-13-2005, 10:02 AM

If you believe him, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

gottimd · 10-13-2005, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

If you believe him, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

You do? How much? I'll make you an offer.....the tea in china....thats right...ALL OF IT!

QuikSand · 10-13-2005, 10:04 AM

Quote:

When I logged in as the commissioner, made front office moves from that position (for which I am clearly not authorized) saved those changes and then made changes for my own team giving my team a multi-year, multi-million dollar benefit in a league with no injuries...I didn't think I was cheating.

Touched that up a bit for him.

Eaglesfan27 · 10-13-2005, 10:04 AM

I'm concerned about the comment about this happening in other leagues. Hopefully, there aren't other cheaters doing this.

PackerFanatic · 10-13-2005, 10:05 AM

Haha, reminds me of Family Guy.

*protest for Free Tibet*

Peter: "I'll take it! *grabs phone* China, I have something you may want, but it'll cost you. Yes...allll the tea..."

Anthony · 10-13-2005, 10:06 AM

doesn't sound like a scumbag to me. in fact, cheating or not, i see where he's coming from - the only thing he does is save money towards the end of the contract. otherwise he and that player are married to each other, bust or not, for the entire length of the contract. i don't condone what he did, nor do i care since i'm not in that league, he just doesn't come off sounding like a prick.

there *are* a lot of limitations in FOF, i'll agree with that. all rookie contracts are cookie cutter, even when you factor in voidable years. there isn't a lot of room to get creative with rookie contracts. again, not condoning what the guy did. it seems this is simply a matter of giving a ticket to the guy you caught speeding, even though there are/were others going just as fast. i would guess this "cheat" is employed by others, if one person can think it you have to assume then many people have been doing it. i've come across several people who've been all too willing to push the boundary of the game. again, this is a matter of gmac was the one who got caught.

gottimd · 10-13-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I'm concerned about the comment about this happening in other leagues. Hopefully, there aren't other cheaters doing this.

Well I am sure with this out there now, GM's and Commishs will be looking at this very closely now. We just finished our draft in the NAFL, and its time Rookie Contract signing.

Raiders Army · 10-13-2005, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

doesn't sound like a scumbag to me. in fact, cheating or not, i see where he's coming from - the only thing he does is save money towards the end of the contract. otherwise he and that player are married to each other, bust or not, for the entire length of the contract. i don't condone what he did, nor do i care since i'm not in that league, he just doesn't come off sounding like a prick.

there *are* a lot of limitations in FOF, i'll agree with that. all rookie contracts are cookie cutter, even when you factor in voidable years. there isn't a lot of room to get creative with rookie contracts. again, not condoning what the guy did. it seems this is simply a matter of giving a ticket to the guy you caught speeding, even though there are/were others going just as fast. this "cheat" is imployed by others, i'm positive. i've come across several people who've been all too willing to push the boundary of the game. again, this is a matter of gmac was the one who got caught.

Strangely, this thread and this thread have converged:

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/foru...ad.php?t=43542

QuikSand · 10-13-2005, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottimd

Well I am sure with this out there now, GM's and Commishs will be looking at this very closely now. We just finished our draft in the NAFL, and its time Rookie Contract signing.

And, hopefully, some looks will be given to past year transaction logs... any league where this guy and his mentor(s) have played certainly seems suspect to me. Wouldn't surprise me to find this cheat being used before without notice.

Raiders Army · 10-13-2005, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

And, hopefully, some looks will be given to past year transaction logs... any league where this guy and his mentor(s) have played certainly seems suspect to me. Wouldn't surprise me to find this cheat being used before without notice.

So his mentors advanced his green and red bars, eh?

JasonC23 · 10-13-2005, 10:10 AM

So, basically, GMac's defense is that he doesn't like how the game does rookie contracts?

Cuckoo · 10-13-2005, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottimd

Well I am sure with this out there now, GM's and Commishs will be looking at this very closely now. We just finished our draft in the NAFL, and its time Rookie Contract signing.

Yep. And from his response, perhaps I need to go alter our league rules to point out that you cannot CHEAT just to make sure it's clear. Hopefully, people in the NAFL are a little smarter than this guy.

sovereignstar · 10-13-2005, 10:15 AM

I for one would like his IP Address (or addresses), so I can forward it to anyone concerned. PackerFanatic, if you don't feel right about posting it publically, a PM will do.

Cuckoo · 10-13-2005, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

Make a note of his IP.

Yes please.

10-13-2005, 01:43 AM	#157
WrongWay Banned Join Date: Jan 2005	Chubby, once again I will have to say I don't understand. I was answering your question about it being impossible to kick a team out of the NFL. It may be impossible to kick a team out, but it is possible to kick an owner out. I was not comparing what Pat Bowlin and the Denver Broncos did to what Marge Schott did. I was just showing that a league can kick an owner out. BTW I think I am incorrect because Marge Schott was just suspended right? Or maybe is was one of those crazy Life-Time Bans, which means you can come back in a couple of years. Last edited by WrongWay : 10-13-2005 at 01:53 AM.

10-13-2005, 04:19 AM	#159
Alf Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Rennes, France	my point here : some guys are morons and I don't want to play with them. It is either them being sumped out of the league, or I quit. This is a game, and I play games for fun. I don't want to play with morons. __________________ FOFL - GML - IHOF - FranceStats

10-13-2005, 04:27 AM	#160
Darkiller FOF2 Guy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Paris, France	I'm amazed someone would do that... There is no question that he cheated on purpose so he has to be kicked off of his leagues. As a matter of fact, I don't even see the point in Jim fixing that issue because if a guy wants to cheat, well...he cheats and he is stupid. Playing online leagues is great fun and if the guy feels he can have more fun by cheating on the other owners then there is nothing much you can do for that. __________________ FOF2 lives on / Continue to support the best game ever ! - Owner of the San Francisco 49ers in FOF2 - Charter member of the IHOF and owner of the Paris Musketeers franchise (FOF2004) - Chairman of the IHOF Hall of Fame - Athletic Director of the Brigham Young Cougars in TCY FOF Legend: Hall of Fame QB Brock Sheriff #5, one of the most popular player in Front Office Football history.

10-13-2005, 07:19 AM	#167
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	Remind me not to play in any league that WrongWay has any authority in. This is a no brainer, I'd quit my league if someone did this and wasn't kicked out immediatly. There is no explanation or excuse. __________________

10-13-2005, 07:27 AM	#169
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	I really don't care what the NFL would do. It has nothing to do with this. __________________

10-13-2005, 01:18 AM	#153
Nwobhm Mascot Join Date: Sep 2002	There's 20 AI controlled teams in the FastFL currently.. perhaps they just need to keep him for the league's sake?

10-13-2005, 06:56 AM	#163
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	I don't even see how people can consider this an issue as to whether or not he should be kicked out. If I were in the league and he wasn't gone, I'd be sending in my resignation to the league. There's too many leagues out there to deal with this kind of crap.

10-13-2005, 07:03 AM	#164
Blackadar Retired Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fantasyland	We're not talking about using an AI exploit. We're talking about blatent cheating. It's been shown before. If he'll cheat once, he'll cheat again. And he has. The dickless weenie should be kicked out of all leagues forever.

10-13-2005, 07:10 AM	#166
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Man, i cant believe that someone sat at their desk and figured out how to do something like this, to basically invent a cheat. Once it cheat was out there, it wasnt hard to replicate....I guess i just cant see doing something like this to save a few million dollars over a few years. Wow.

10-13-2005, 07:32 AM	#170
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	This has nothing to do with the NFL. What it has to do with is some dork who exploited a piece of code in a video game for his own personal gain. He's a douchebag, plain and simple.

10-13-2005, 07:35 AM	#171
WrongWay Banned Join Date: Jan 2005	BTW it is not "cheating". The NFL calls it "salary cap circumvention"

10-13-2005, 07:44 AM	#172
gottimd Dearly Missed (9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: DC Suburbs	It doesn't matter what the NFL says it is. The NFL is real life. This is just a sim game. The comparison should be made to other games, where people are competing for fun, on the basis that they are all competing on the same level and no one has an advantage. __________________ NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08

10-13-2005, 09:38 AM	#180
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	Makes me glad I play SP only. I did dabble in the HFL for a season, but didn't have the time to keep it up.

10-13-2005, 09:45 AM	#182
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Looks like the offending FastFL team owner has jumped before he was (possibly) pushed. But he did suggest that it's been a prevalent cheat in that league and others. I don't know how one goes back to check for this sort of thing... but I know if I were in a league with the likely candidates, I'd be looking for a way... and preparing my post in the "league openings" thread here.

10-13-2005, 10:02 AM	#186
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	Heh, I don't have to do anything, everyone is doing it for me! __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

10-13-2005, 10:02 AM	#187
Blackadar Retired Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fantasyland	If you believe him, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

10-13-2005, 10:04 AM	#190
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	I'm concerned about the comment about this happening in other leagues. Hopefully, there aren't other cheaters doing this. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

10-13-2005, 10:05 AM	#191
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	Haha, reminds me of Family Guy. protest for Free Tibet Peter: "I'll take it! grabs phone China, I have something you may want, but it'll cost you. Yes...allll the tea..." __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

10-13-2005, 10:06 AM	#192
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	doesn't sound like a scumbag to me. in fact, cheating or not, i see where he's coming from - the only thing he does is save money towards the end of the contract. otherwise he and that player are married to each other, bust or not, for the entire length of the contract. i don't condone what he did, nor do i care since i'm not in that league, he just doesn't come off sounding like a prick. there are a lot of limitations in FOF, i'll agree with that. all rookie contracts are cookie cutter, even when you factor in voidable years. there isn't a lot of room to get creative with rookie contracts. again, not condoning what the guy did. it seems this is simply a matter of giving a ticket to the guy you caught speeding, even though there are/were others going just as fast. i would guess this "cheat" is employed by others, if one person can think it you have to assume then many people have been doing it. i've come across several people who've been all too willing to push the boundary of the game. again, this is a matter of gmac was the one who got caught. Last edited by Anthony : 10-13-2005 at 10:09 AM.

10-13-2005, 10:10 AM	#197
JasonC23 High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Huntley, IL, USA	So, basically, GMac's defense is that he doesn't like how the game does rookie contracts? __________________ "I'm A god. I'm not THE God...I don't think." Bill Murray, Groundhog Day Last edited by JasonC23 : 10-13-2005 at 10:11 AM.

10-13-2005, 10:15 AM	#199
sovereignstar Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004	I for one would like his IP Address (or addresses), so I can forward it to anyone concerned. PackerFanatic, if you don't feel right about posting it publically, a PM will do.

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