New NHL EHM game first impressions

[Pumpy Tudors]

How am I going to make time for EHM, WWSM, Civ4, and The Movies? Good grief!

[Simms]

Or you can take NoSkillz's word for it, which is probably the safer option.

[Simms]

Am I imagining things, or was the new silver/black NHL Shield logo included in the original post-lockout N.A. update?

'Cause if it was, it's back to the orange and black one now.

[Sweed]

Downloading now on my high speed connection. Flying along at about 9kb\sec I almost forgot what dial-up felt like

[Godzilla Blitz]

Great that the patch is out.

Bummer that the fictional names' bug doesn't seem to have been adressed yet. Or at least, it doesn't work in my game:

[Pumpy Tudors]

Has anybody besides Godzilla Blitz run into that problem? It seems so weird that he's never been able to get past it, yet I've never seen a complaint about it from anyone else.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Has anybody besides Godzilla Blitz run into that problem? It seems so weird that he's never been able to get past it, yet I've never seen a complaint about it from anyone else.

That's what gets me, too. How come I'm the only one that sees this?

Seems bizarre.

Unless no one uses fictional players?

I'd be very happy if it were simply a problem with my game, as I'd like to give the game a shot.

If anyone else wants to give it a try, here's what I've been doing to start a game. I'd be interested to see if the same thing happens to anyone else. One caveat: You can't see this clearly by looking at individual teams. You've got to go to scouting, and make sure you include all the players in your database. Then the issue is clear as day:

Game Setup
Leagues
All North American and Canadian leagues:
NHL, AHL, ECHL, All-American League 3, All-American League 4, CHL.

No other leagues.

All the above leagues set at "enhanced".

Real Players: unchecked.
Mask Attributes: unchecked or checked. Doesn't matter.

The game options screen I never saw, so the database is at normal size, and all other options are at their defaults as well.

When I start a new game, I'm defaulted as an American, which I leave as is, then I select an NHL team.

Right after the game starts, I click on scouting, player search, and start looking through the database of players. There are about 18,000 players in view at that point, and such screens as I posted above occur repeatedly. One or two screens may only have a few identical names on them, but large clusters of identical last names are immediately apparent. Before you get to your tenth screen you'll see large clusters of players with identical full names. Almost seems as if the code gets stuck on a subset of last/first names and then only generates names within that subset.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I'm going to check it out when I get home tonight. I'm sure that I'll run across the same problem. I just haven't seen it yet, probably because I don't start with all fictional players.

[JeffR]

I think you're going to need to use the Maximum db when selecting fictional players to keep that from happening. I just tried that, and I didn't get anything close to 20+ players with the same name. Looking through all of the A's, the most I had was 6 Kevin Allens and 6 James Atkinsons, neither of which is that unreasonable (neither's an uncommon name, and in the real db there are a few names that appear with the same frequency.) And a lot of the duplicates are low-level junior guys that'll never go anywhere and get recycled without the player ever seeing them, so I don't think it'll have a big impact on playability.

Besides, I just spent a month-plus getting the rosters for ten junior leagues as close to perfect as I could. Use the real names, damnit.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by BuffaloHuskey

A L - Don't you know you are in Buffalo, they can't do anything right there . Hell it has taken more than five years to come up with a design for the damn Peace Bridge and forget about the water front, that development will take 30 years.

Although I still have Buffalo pride, they have got to get their shit together otherwise they will continue to lose the younger generations.

They are already gone, the good ones I mean. Being a bus driver I can tell you there is definitly no future for Buffalo seeing how the "next generation" acts. that being said I'm still annoyed that such a "hockey hotbed" like Abeline has/had copies while there are none whatsoever here. I wish we could leave but the little woman has to much going on here and there is always a chance her family connections can land me a nice cushy city job eating donuts and drinking coffee if our city financial fiasco ever gets resolved. Lets hear it for nepotism.

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by Godzilla Blitz

Unless no one uses fictional players?

I think you hit the nail on the head right there... EHM isn't really set up like other sports sims for fantasy leagues, so I think most people who would have used that feature have stayed away from it, I know I have. Hopefully Riz can sit down with Markus and this can be implemented in a future version...

[Honolulu_Blue]

Just to confirm.

I have the European Box verison of the game. I have held off on downloading the major North America update until this latest patch.

So, I think, I am still running versions 2.0.2.

I see that there are the following updates available:

2.1.1
2.1.2 (just came out today)

I understand that once I install the NA patches, my old games are kaput. That's fine.

Do I need to download anything other than 2.1.1 and 2.1.2, or is that enough to convert the game to the NA edition?

Does any of this make sense?

[NoSkillz]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Just to confirm.

I have the European Box verison of the game. I have held off on downloading the major North America update until this latest patch.

So, I think, I am still running versions 2.0.2.

I see that there are the following updates available:

2.1.1
2.1.2 (just came out today)

I understand that once I install the NA patches, my old games are kaput. That's fine.

Do I need to download anything other than 2.1.1 and 2.1.2, or is that enough to convert the game to the NA edition?

Does any of this make sense?

Yes it makes sense. Downloading the 'PC' version of the new patch should get you updated with everything you need, including the stuff done for the NA update from last month.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally Posted by JeffR

I think you're going to need to use the Maximum db when selecting fictional players to keep that from happening. I just tried that, and I didn't get anything close to 20+ players with the same name. Looking through all of the A's, the most I had was 6 Kevin Allens and 6 James Atkinsons, neither of which is that unreasonable (neither's an uncommon name, and in the real db there are a few names that appear with the same frequency.) And a lot of the duplicates are low-level junior guys that'll never go anywhere and get recycled without the player ever seeing them, so I don't think it'll have a big impact on playability.

Sorry, Jeff, you seem like a good guy, but I disagree.

The problem is similar using the the maximum database. Also, the problem is not only identical names, but players with the same last name. I just started a game with a large database to see, and there are large groups of players with the same last name. The identical name issue does seem to be slightly less, but there are still large numbers of players with identical names.

For example, in the new game I just generated with a large database, there are--in the NHL alone, and just looking at last names beginning with the letter "B":

1. 10 NHL players with a last name of Bernier. Two Ray Berniers and two Michael Berniers.
2. 7 NHL players with a last name of Boe. Two Derek Boes.
3. 10 NHL players with a last name of Boutin. Two Dan Boutins.
4. 15 NHL players with a last name of Buckley. Three Randy Buckleys. Two Samuel Buckleys. Two Dan Buckleys.

And that is just a smattering of the samples, as there are at least a half dozen or more players with identical names, and numerous smaller groupings of players with the same last names. And that's just the letter "B".

I agree, of course, that there should be some similarity of names and an occasional identical name, but the problem goes far beyond that in the current version of the game.

I would also argue that the issue greatly impacts playability when you've got so many players with the same names. Heck, I noticed the problem in the first five minutes of playing the game, as I saw a player on one team and said to myself, "Wait a minute, didn't I just see him on another team? Did he get traded somehow?" Once I looked at the database, the problem became apparent.

[sachmo71]

The naming algorithim can be improved. GBs results are silly.

[sachmo71]

Some of the attributes for the Stars have not been changed since I was researching for the first EHM. Just odd.

EDIT: This is *NOT* an accurate statment. I just can't figure some of them out, but they have changed. Apologies to the researchers!

[NoSkillz]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Some of the attributes for the Stars have not been changed since I was researching for the first EHM. Just odd.

EDIT: This is *NOT* an accurate statment. I just can't figure some of them out, but they have changed. Apologies to the researchers!

Hahaha...I was just about to ask you who was out of whack!

If you have any problems with the Stars, feel free to post them here. My main responsibilities lie with the Northeast Division but for this particular patch, I was in charge of the Northeast, the Central and the Pacific.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Godzilla Blitz

For example, in the new game I just generated with a large database, there are--in the NHL alone, and just looking at last names beginning with the letter "B":

Yeah, now that I look at the NHL in the fictional-name game I started, there's definitely problems with name overuse. I don't know what's going wrong there; I remember Graeme working on this and sending me a build to test, which I got much better results with, so either that somehow didn't make it into a patch or got broken again farther along the line. At least it isn't affecting the names for regenerated players; the code for that seems to be separate (e.g., when starting with fake names the players from Quebec won't have mainly French names, but the regenerated players do.) Knowing that, one way to get yourself a good fictional database might be to let it run hands-off for 10-15 seasons, which should get rid of most of those duplicated names, and then take over a team and start playing.

But the real db will still have the best selection of names - do you really want to play without the option of signing Troy Weasel Fat?

[riz]

Originally Posted by Godzilla Blitz

Sorry, Jeff, you seem like a good guy, but I disagree.

The problem is similar using the the maximum database. Also, the problem is not only identical names, but players with the same last name. I just started a game with a large database to see, and there are large groups of players with the same last name. The identical name issue does seem to be slightly less, but there are still large numbers of players with identical names.

For example, in the new game I just generated with a large database, there are--in the NHL alone, and just looking at last names beginning with the letter "B":

1. 10 NHL players with a last name of Bernier. Two Ray Berniers and two Michael Berniers.
2. 7 NHL players with a last name of Boe. Two Derek Boes.
3. 10 NHL players with a last name of Boutin. Two Dan Boutins.
4. 15 NHL players with a last name of Buckley. Three Randy Buckleys. Two Samuel Buckleys. Two Dan Buckleys.

And that is just a smattering of the samples, as there are at least a half dozen or more players with identical names, and numerous smaller groupings of players with the same last names. And that's just the letter "B".

I agree, of course, that there should be some similarity of names and an occasional identical name, but the problem goes far beyond that in the current version of the game.

I would also argue that the issue greatly impacts playability when you've got so many players with the same names. Heck, I noticed the problem in the first five minutes of playing the game, as I saw a player on one team and said to myself, "Wait a minute, didn't I just see him on another team? Did he get traded somehow?" Once I looked at the database, the problem became apparent.

Hmm...I'll take some time of my own schedule this week and have a dig into this. I'll run some tests with the all fictional players and try to find the underlying cause as that does not look like the behaviour I would expect either. Like JeffR said, the main game works fine with regen names and their frequencies. It has to be something very specific to creating a fully fictional database that unbalances the frequency of the name usage. We are down to basically just me looking into issues arising in the current version of the game (while also trying to get up to full speed with the development of the next full version) as Graeme is lending a hand in another project, but I'll see what I can do. Anything else you guys have problems with, just post here and I'll keep my ears open.

[Booj]

I posted this on the SI forums, but I downloaded and installed the Mac patch with no problems, but when I load the game, the rosters don't seem to be changed at all (I heard Mark Streit is now named, but he is still Gilles Imhof and Theodore, Markov are RFAs) but the Game Setup says I am running 2.1.2.

Any help would be appreciated.

[NoSkillz]

Originally Posted by Booj

I posted this on the SI forums, but I downloaded and installed the Mac patch with no problems, but when I load the game, the rosters don't seem to be changed at all (I heard Mark Streit is now named, but he is still Gilles Imhof and Theodore, Markov are RFAs) but the Game Setup says I am running 2.1.2.

Any help would be appreciated.

Did you start a brand new game or is this an existing save? You need to start from scratch to have the new data take effect.

[Booj]

Originally Posted by NoSkillz

Did you start a brand new game or is this an existing save? You need to start from scratch to have the new data take effect.

I did start a new game... which makes it even odder.

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Booj

I posted this on the SI forums, but I downloaded and installed the Mac patch with no problems, but when I load the game, the rosters don't seem to be changed at all (I heard Mark Streit is now named, but he is still Gilles Imhof and Theodore, Markov are RFAs) but the Game Setup says I am running 2.1.2.

Any help would be appreciated.

So, are guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk still playing for foreign teams? When I updated my PC version, they were on the Wing's roster. I have not updated my Mac yet so I can't verify.

[NoSkillz]

Originally Posted by Booj

I did start a new game... which makes it even odder.

Very strange...

You said that Mark Streit's scrambled name was the same as it was with the old version of the game?

I'm almost positive that when Riz updates builds, the scrambled names change...this leads me to believe that something is up with the Mac Patch...

I'm sure Riz will be around soon...

[Booj]

I took Graeme's advice at the SI forums, and it worked... just had to delete the .dam files.

Thanks for the help

[Hurst2112]

those dam files!

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

those dam files!

Where can i get some dam bait?

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Where can i get some dam bait?

bait's away!

[scooter]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Some of the attributes for the Stars have not been changed since I was researching for the first EHM. Just odd.

EDIT: This is *NOT* an accurate statment. I just can't figure some of them out, but they have changed. Apologies to the researchers!

That was probably my fault. I tried to help you with the Stars on the first version of the game (and probably just made more work for you and Juni). I didn't touch them in EHM2005 though. This time around I was the fire-stomper for Atlanta.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by scooter

That was probably my fault. I tried to help you with the Stars on the first version of the game (and probably just made more work for you and Juni). I didn't touch them in EHM2005 though. This time around I was the fire-stomper for Atlanta.

Did you like Atlanta better?

My big gripe (which I didn't change either, btw) is Antti Miettinen and his 20 checking. Because of this, I always keep him on my 4th line.

[scooter]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Did you like Atlanta better?

My big gripe (which I didn't change either, btw) is Antti Miettinen and his 20 checking. Because of this, I always keep him on my 4th line.

Atlanta was ok. Once again, I came on as a substitute researcher as the first person flaked. Most of the work had already been done for me and the database of players in general had already had one round of research done on them (for the first EHM). So it was mainly inputing histories and tracking down where guys were playing overseas during the lockout.

When SI were updating the database for the NA release, nobody asked me to do anything more, so my contributions to this game are pretty minimal. To tell you the truth, I haven't really looked at their roster much since the original game came out. I was just trying to help out with the game however I could.

As far as their roster in general goes, they have some impressive young talent (early 1st round draft picks will do that for you), but they are a little heavy on foreign talent for my tastes. Being up here in the NW though, I don't get a lot of opportunities to watch them play.

Antti Miettinen has a 16 for checking in my current game of EHM2005, so it may be one of those attributes that the computer generates with each new game. My understanding of the way he plays: he's a bit of a 2-way player but definitely not that physical. He should probably be more of a 12.

I hope you can get past that though and enjoy the rest of the game

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by scooter

Atlanta was ok. Once again, I came on as a substitute researcher as the first person flaked. Most of the work had already been done for me and the database of players in general had already had one round of research done on them (for the first EHM). So it was mainly inputing histories and tracking down where guys were playing overseas during the lockout.

When SI were updating the database for the NA release, nobody asked me to do anything more, so my contributions to this game are pretty minimal. To tell you the truth, I haven't really looked at their roster much since the original game came out. I was just trying to help out with the game however I could.

As far as their roster in general goes, they have some impressive young talent (early 1st round draft picks will do that for you), but they are a little heavy on foreign talent for my tastes. Being up here in the NW though, I don't get a lot of opportunities to watch them play.

Antti Miettinen has a 16 for checking in my current game of EHM2005, so it may be one of those attributes that the computer generates with each new game. My understanding of the way he plays: he's a bit of a 2-way player but definitely not that physical. He should probably be more of a 12.

I hope you can get past that though and enjoy the rest of the game

I have. I wonder why I have him as a 20 still?

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by scooter

When SI were updating the database for the NA release, nobody asked me to do anything more, so my contributions to this game are pretty minimal.

By way of explanation there, the research team was cut down to a smaller team of experienced head researchers for the North American update. With the deadlines much shorter than usual, we needed people who had proven repeatedly they could get the work done on-time and accurately. With the bigger team, most team researchers do fine, but there are inevitably problems with a small number of people not getting things back in by deadlines and/or making serious mistakes that require a fair bit of work to fix. Wasn't time to deal with that stuff this time around.

Regardless, there probably would have been latitude for the selected HR's to get more team researcher input if the minieditor hadn't been broken (broken even more than usual, that is) as a result of some changes in the database format. Getting it fixed would have required borrowing manpower from the FM team, and with them in their final push before release, that wasn't going to happen. So that ruled out most outside help, except in a few cases where researchers were willing to take on entire leagues and could get a Non-Disclosure Agreement (required of anybody getting a full-league database file) signed and back to SI very quickly.

[scooter]

Jeff, don't worry. My feelings weren't hurt because I didn't get to work on the NA release. I figured that you guys had shrunk the researchers down to streamline the process. I'm not even hurt that my name is in the credits in the wrong division (I'm under Pacific from my work on the first EHM). I looked at it as a "temp" job anyway.

You guys have done a great job with the game. And I know how much work it is to work on just one team; I can only imagine what working on a whole league must be like (especially the obscure leagues that don't have much online documentation). So thank you Jeff, Riz and the whole EHM crew.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Found one copy at a gamstop in Buffalo(boulevard mall for those interested) even though the semi-skilled monkey told me it was "delisted" over the phone.Lucky for me the little woman and rugrat HAD to go there for Christmas shopping. I hope Gamestop gets it sh*t together soon.

Excellent game.So very nice to actually see a real manual thats not 1 page folded over . Now to figure out what the hells happening. I 'm in game 27 with the sabres and on my 7th goalie. All of them are falling apart and I got some 20 yr old shmoe from russia letting them in bythe bucketful. sheesh! 0-17 since Biron, Miller AND Mika crapped out for the year.

[Galaril]

Great game. I had a couple of Noob questions. First, How to you find the shortlist and what does it do. I have seen alot of players that were in the news as released but , when I went to sign them or at least offer them an invite to training camp no option was available for it. Also, how do you cut players or is that up to your coaches to make the cut choices in camp. next, what do the numbers under players currnet form mean on the roster screen.? For example, 8-7-7-6? Thanks for any help from anyone on these.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Great game. I had a couple of Noob questions. First, How to you find the shortlist and what does it do. I have seen alot of players that were in the news as released but , when I went to sign them or at least offer them an invite to training camp no option was available for it. Also, how do you cut players or is that up to your coaches to make the cut choices in camp. next, what do the numbers under players currnet form mean on the roster screen.? For example, 8-7-7-6? Thanks for any help from anyone on these.

You can find the shortlist on the "scouting" screen. The button is there. You assign players to the shortlist either by clicking on it or by scouting them. It tends to be used as a list of players your particularly interested in either to trade for or draft. I never use it. Ever. Others do.

Are you playing as a NHL team? If so, and a player is released by an NHL team you should be able to sign them. If they are released by a non-NHL it is possible that some other NHL team has their NHL rights which would make them unsignable. There are also a certain group of players you can't invite to camp. College players for example and some others. I don't know specifically why, but I am sure it has something to do with rules regarding playing for a "professional" team. Even via a tryout.

Those numbers are the player's "ratings" over the course of the last few games. Each game a player is rated by your coaches from 1-10. Most of the time it should be around a "7". Anything from 5 or lower is pretty bad. Anything over 8 is pretty good.

[Hurst2112]

Those numbers are the player's "ratings" over the course of the last few games. Each game a player is rated by your coaches from 1-10. Most of the time it should be around a "7". Anything from 5 or lower is pretty bad. Anything over 8 is pretty good.

Here is a strange question...

if you have something like this: 8-9-7-10-6, was the earlier game the 8? Does the sequence go left to right or right to left? I think the 6 would be the last game I played, the 8 would be the first. I am not sure. I want to know because I like switching up lines and seeing how a person (Crosby) does with different line combos. Its nice to do this at a glance on the player's screen.

other than that, it's a pretty stupid question.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

Here is a strange question...

if you have something like this: 8-9-7-10-6, was the earlier game the 8? Does the sequence go left to right or right to left? I think the 6 would be the last game I played, the 8 would be the first. I am not sure. I want to know because I like switching up lines and seeing how a person (Crosby) does with different line combos. Its nice to do this at a glance on the player's screen.

other than that, it's a pretty stupid question.

the rightmost number is the last game played.. It's an old CM/FM way of displaying "form".

[sachmo71]

oldest is to the left

[st.cronin]

Is there a way to clear your shortlist? There was in an older version, but I can't find it on this version. I use my shortlist for the draft, and after the draft, I need to clear it.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Is there a way to clear your shortlist? There was in an older version, but I can't find it on this version. I use my shortlist for the draft, and after the draft, I need to clear it.

Scouting screen, select the shortlist, then Search-Clear.

[bhlloy]

I started a serious game with the Wild post-patch, and this is such an addictive game. Just got through the draft where I picked up homegrown talent Phil Kessel, and heading into my second season we are young and absolutely stocked. Still very inexperienced, but tons of great young players who are getting better all the time. Looking forward to seeing what guys like Pouliot, Kulyash, Burns and O'Sullivan can do in their first full years.

Riz, Jeff or any of the SI Guys... a question. Is it possible there is a bug in the way fatigue is calculated from practice?
I've noticed a few times that the guys who are tired on the more intensive conditioning schedules I set up haven't been guys I would have expected, but now I'm in the offseason the only guy I have consistently tired is Denis Kulyash, who is the only one of my players to have a 20 for stamina. He's consistently at 55-60%, and none of my other players seem to get much below 70%. Wierd. He is young at 23 and this is his first year over from Russia, but I have 18 year old guys on the same schedule who are above 90%.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I started a serious game with the Wild post-patch, and this is such an addictive game. Just got through the draft where I picked up homegrown talent Phil Kessel, and heading into my second season we are young and absolutely stocked. Still very inexperienced, but tons of great young players who are getting better all the time. Looking forward to seeing what guys like Pouliot, Kulyash, Burns and O'Sullivan can do in their first full years.

Riz, Jeff or any of the SI Guys... a question. Is it possible there is a bug in the way fatigue is calculated from practice?
I've noticed a few times that the guys who are tired on the more intensive conditioning schedules I set up haven't been guys I would have expected, but now I'm in the offseason the only guy I have consistently tired is Denis Kulyash, who is the only one of my players to have a 20 for stamina. He's consistently at 55-60%, and none of my other players seem to get much below 70%. Wierd. He is young at 23 and this is his first year over from Russia, but I have 18 year old guys on the same schedule who are above 90%.

I think that might be a clue that a player is injury-prone; I've seen that with guys who are always getting banged up, they also get more tired from practice.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think that might be a clue that a player is injury-prone; I've seen that with guys who are always getting banged up, they also get more tired from practice.

I hope that isn't the case. I was planning to build my D around this guy. On the plus side, I just managed to get Willie Mitchell back for a 7th round pick, after I dealt him to the Ducks just before the deadline last year for a 3rd. Pretty decent investment and he's a good defensive top 4 d-man.

[Hurst2112]

i just realized something post latest patch...

brett hull isn't around! what is up with that?

[Marc Vaughan]

Either injury prone or very hard-working, you'll notice industrious players get tired more quickly than lazy players (makes sense if you think about it) - but then they also do more ..

[Blade6119]

One of the biggest turnoffs for me from the first installment, and subsequently the reason i have still yet to purchase the newest installment was that in 4-5 the draft was dominated by canadaian...to the point of where those players became the norm no other nation could even come close to competing...id have drafts where the first two rounds would go by with maybe one or two non canadians getting drafted...Is this any better in the newer version...and it has to be 4-5 years down the road as 3 years is still players in the game at start...Anyone have any thoughts on if the talent is better spread around this time?

[Young Drachma]

I'm gonna check this out now. If it's cool as it sounds, I'm gonna buy it. Seems exciting.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

One of the biggest turnoffs for me from the first installment, and subsequently the reason i have still yet to purchase the newest installment was that in 4-5 the draft was dominated by canadaian...to the point of where those players became the norm no other nation could even come close to competing...id have drafts where the first two rounds would go by with maybe one or two non canadians getting drafted...Is this any better in the newer version...and it has to be 4-5 years down the road as 3 years is still players in the game at start...Anyone have any thoughts on if the talent is better spread around this time?

20 Canadians in the first round in the 2006 draft in the game I'm playing right now, 23 in 2007, 13 ranked in the top 30 for 2008. Averages out to 18, there were 17 taken in the real 2005 draft.