Best. Pro. Team. Ever. (an all-time pro football tournament) - Page 4

SplitPersonality1 · 06-14-2004, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Heh. When I was considering the restart and playing by seed, Minnesota came out as the #1 seed, so by the game's ratings, they may very well be the best team in the field. They certainly blitzed the Raiders in this series. Interesting to note is that one of the other best teams according to what I was doing to seed the teams was none other than the arch-nemesis of this team, the 1998 Falcons.

Interesting. I sort of want to see a rematch, but then again, I don't think I could handle another loss to those %*&%$ Falcons. Even it it would be a fictional game.

Not that I dwell on that game or anything.

(How the heck did he miss that field goal????)

Wolfpack · 06-14-2004, 12:16 PM

Just realized this thread has reached a fourth page. I don't think I've made any thread last more than two before on any board. *sniff* I'm so proud! (no...not really...)

At any rate, game threes will be posted shortly.

Wolfpack · 06-14-2004, 12:48 PM

Results of game threes:

Code:

Baltimore Ravens 2001 (10-6, WC)	24- 6	Phoenix Cardinals 1992 (4-12)
Green Bay Packers 1963 (11-2-1)		38-37	New England Patriots 1989 (5-11)
Houston Oilers 1992 (10-6, WC)		14-48	San Francisco 49ers 1995 (11-5, D)
New England Patriots 1981 (2-14)	26-29	San Francisco 49ers 1999 (4-12)
Baltimore Colts 1964 (12-2,C)		40-23	New England Patriots 1986 (11-5, D)
Detroit Lions 1991 (12-4, D)		 7-14	Baltimore Colts 1968 (13-1, NFL-L)
Philadelphia Eagles 1992 (11-5, WC)	14-10	New York Jets 2001 (10-6, WC)
Los Angeles Raiders 1994 (9-7)		14-21	New Orleans Saints 1993 (8-8)
New York Giants 1972 (8-6)		23-20*	Los Angeles Raiders 1987 (5-10)
Houston Oilers 1976 (5-9)		17- 7	New York Jets 1976 (3-11)
Minnesota Vikings 1994 (10-6, D)	30-10	Cleveland Browns 1989 (9-6-1, D)
Los Angeles Rams 1977 (10-4, D)		23-17	New England Patriots 2000 (5-11)
Arizona Cardinals 2001 (7-9)		31-42	Miami Dolphins 1986 (8-8)
New Orleans Saints 1984 (7-9)		41-24	Chicago Bears 1967 (7-6-1)
Chicago Bears 1939 (8-3)		 7-31	Washington Redskins 2003 (5-11)
Oakland Raiders 1995 (8-8)		21-20	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1998 (8-8)

*-in OT
Series winners bolded

Headliner: 1991 Detroit vs. 1968 Baltimore
*Game three played out similarly to game two in this affair, which is to say that it wasn't a blowout. Instead, it was a physical, tight contest that came down to the wire. Both teams scored touchdowns in the first quarter, but that would be it for scoring in the half. In the third, the Colts took the lead with a touchdown and then made it stand the rest of the way. Detroit made a great push at the end, reaching the Baltimore 12 before turning it over on downs. Baltimore wins the game 14-7 and the series 2-1.

Other playoff team matchups:
*1995 San Francisco 48, 1992 Houston 14 (San Francisco wins series 2-1)
*1964 Baltimore Colts 40, 1986 New England 23 (Baltimore Colts win series 2-1)
*1992 Philadelphia 14, 2001 NY Jets 10 (Philadelphia wins series 2-1)
*1994 Minnesota 30, 1989 Cleveland 10 (Minnesota wins series 2-1)

Upset update (follow-up to big upsets of games one and two):
*1995 San Francisco 48, 1992 Houston 14 (San Francisco wins series 2-1)
*1972 NY Giants 23, 1987 LA Raiders 20 (OT) (NY Giants win series 2-1)
*1976 Houston 17, 1976 NY Jets 7 (Houston wins series 2-1)
*1992 Philadelphia 14, 2001 NY Jets 10 (Philadelphia wins series 2-1)
*2003 Washington 31, 1939 Chicago 7 (Washington wins series 2-1)

Big upsets in game three:
None to report (any upsets were against slight favorites)

Matchup nobody wants tickets to see:
*1999 San Francisco 29, 1981 New England 26 (San Francisco wins series 2-1)

sterlingice · 06-14-2004, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SplitPersonality1

Interesting. I sort of want to see a rematch, but then again, I don't think I could handle another loss to those %*&%$ Falcons. Even it it would be a fictional game.

Not that I dwell on that game or anything.

(How the heck did he miss that field goal????)

I really felt gypped by that Super Bowl. Minnesota/Denver would have been a much better matchup. Tho it was nothing compared to the Ravens/Giants crapfest.

SI

Warhammer · 06-14-2004, 03:15 PM

I'm actually surprised that those Vikings are the #1 and the Falcons are the #2. I would have expected the 99 Rams to at least be #2. They were certainly better than that Falcons team.

Then again, they might not be rated well since their defensive passing numbers were not that great, mainly due to everyone passing to try and catch them.

Wolfpack · 06-14-2004, 03:19 PM

The Falcons weren't a #2 (as I recall) but they were I think in the top 10 of the game's ratings. These ratings did include the normalization grade, BTW. Without it, a lot of the old teams suddenly become very, very good.

As I recall, the 1999 Rams with normalization ranked about #35. I think I'll spend a couple of minutes and get the numbers from Excel to spit out a Top 10 in both arrangements.

Wolfpack · 06-14-2004, 03:37 PM

I mis-spoke. The Falcons were ranked second in the normalized version of the rankings.

Top 25 w/ normalization
Minnesota Vikings 1998
Atlanta Falcons 1998
New England Patriots 2003
St. Louis Rams 2001
Denver Broncos 1998
Indianapolis Colts 1999
Jacksonville Jaguars 1999
Kansas City Chiefs 1995
Pittsburgh Steelers 2001
San Francisco 49ers 1984
San Francisco 49ers 1989
San Francisco 49ers 1992
Tennessee Titans 1999
Washington Redskins 1991
Chicago Bears 1985
Chicago Bears 2001
Denver Broncos 1996
Green Bay Packers 1997
Kansas City Chiefs 1997
Kansas City Chiefs 2003
Los Angeles Raiders 1982
New York Giants 1986
San Francisco 49ers 1990
San Francisco 49ers 1997
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2002

Other teams of note in top 50: 2001 Chicago #26, 1994 San Francisco #28, 1992 Dallas #32, 1990 NY Giants #34, 1999 St. Louis Rams #35, 1997 Denver #37, 1968 Baltimore Colts #40, 1962 Green Bay #41, 1996 Green Bay #42, 1978 Pittsburgh #47 (1972 Miami comes in way down at #69)

Top 25 w/o normalization
Chicago Bears 1942
Chicago Bears 1941
Minnesota Vikings 1998
San Francisco 49ers 1984
Baltimore Colts 1968
Green Bay Packers 1962
Cleveland Browns 1948
Atlanta Falcons 1998
New England Patriots 2003
St. Louis Rams 2001
Los Angeles Raiders 1982
Minnesota Vikings 1970
Chicago Cardinals 1948
Green Bay Packers 1941
Philadelphia Stars 1984
San Francisco 49ers 1989
San Francisco 49ers 1992
Washington Redskins 1991
Chicago Bears 1985
New York Giants 1986
Washington Redskins 1983
Pittsburgh Steelers 1978
Miami Dolphins 1972
Oakland Raiders 1967
New York Giants 1950

Other teams of note in the top 50: 1998 Denver #27, 1977 Dallas #33, 1975 Pittsburgh #34, 1976 Oakland #36, 1966 Green Bay #40

Normalization seems pretty weighted in favor of the modern NFL teams, but it also does a number against the teams from the USFL, AAFC, and AFL. Without it, the 1984 Philadelphia Stars check in at #14. With it, they plunge to #385. It seems fairly obvious that the #385 ranking is closer to the truth than #14 of all time.

Wolfpack · 06-14-2004, 03:39 PM

Oh, and for those curious, the worst team with normalization figured in is the 1942 Lions, far and away. With no normalization, the Lions do move up one place to #1491. The basement dweller in this arrangement is the 1976 Buccaneers.

Warhammer · 06-14-2004, 03:52 PM

Interesting, the 1999 Titans, Colts, and Jaguars are seeded higher than the 1999 Rams. Not that those teams were not that great, but I would think the Rams would have been a little closer to them in seeding. I also think the numbers without normalization are very interesting, almost a who's who of NFL football, with the exception of the 98 Falcons and 84 Stars.

Wolfpack · 06-14-2004, 03:58 PM

I should clarify Falcons ranking again by stating that they are tied for second with the 2003 Patriots and the 2001 Rams (this is why I didn't remember them being second before, because of the sort order in Excel).

Out of curiosity, let's stack the 1998 Vikings against the 1999 Rams. This will also give some opportunity to explain the ratings that are used by the game.

Code:

Team				OFF	DEF	CGF	NRM
Minnesota Vikings 1998		25	8	7	17
St. Louis Rams 1999		21	6	1	17

The teams are equal in normalization so that can be disregarded. Minnesota has the better offense, while the Rams are somewhat better on defense (lower number in the DEF column means better defense). In a neutral site affair, the Vikings are expected to score 31 points (25 from Vikes OFF plus 6 from Rams DEF), while the Rams are expected to score 29 (21 from Rams OFF plus 8 from Vikings DEF), which generates a line of -2 for Minnesota. The one thing that sets Minnesota apart is their ability to win close games. I don't know the exact formula for it, but as I recall it had something to do with expected wins based on point differential versus actual wins. Do note that the 7 value Minnesota gets is about average. 2003 New England, for example, merits a "15" rating in close games, which means they are a pretty good bet to score at the end of a ballgame. At the other end, the 1981 Patriots have a CGF of -5, which means they pretty much have no chance at scoring and are blessed only by the fact that a CGM cannot be greater than -12, which is what they'd get facing any team with a CGF of 7 or better.

In reality, the differences between the best teams in either rankings are slight at best. We are talking about 1492 teams overall and from the cold, cold realm of space occupied by the orbit of the 1942 Lions, the bright sun represented by the Vikings and the inner planetary orbit the Rams inhabit are practically touching one another.

JeeberD · 06-14-2004, 04:11 PM

No love for the '93 Cowboys? I've always felt that they were a better team than the '92 bunch...

Wolfpack · 06-14-2004, 04:15 PM

I just came up with a different seeding formula. This one is based on expected line versus the "average team" in the field, defined as the average of each of the game's ratings (close game factors don't come into the equation in this instance):

Normalized Rankings
Minnesota Vikings 1998
St. Louis Rams 1999
St. Louis Rams 2001
Washington Redskins 1991
Green Bay Packers 1996
Denver Broncos 1998
San Francisco 49ers 1984
Chicago Bears 1985
San Francisco 49ers 1994
Baltimore Colts 1968
Green Bay Packers 1962
Denver Broncos 1997
Oakland Raiders 2000
San Francisco 49ers 1995
Atlanta Falcons 1998
Jacksonville Jaguars 1999
San Francisco 49ers 1989
San Francisco 49ers 1992
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2002
San Francisco 49ers 1987
Baltimore Ravens 2000
Oakland Raiders 2002
Pittsburgh Steelers 1975
Pittsburgh Steelers 1976
San Francisco 49ers 1993

Un-normalized rankings
Chicago Bears 1942
Chicago Bears 1941
Baltimore Colts 1968
Green Bay Packers 1962
Chicago Bears 1948
Cleveland Browns 1946
Minnesota Vikings 1998
Washington Redskins 1991
Minnesota Vikings 1969
St. Louis Rams 1999
San Francisco 49ers 1984
Pittsburgh Steelers 1975
Pittsburgh Steelers 1976
Minnesota Vikings 1970
Oakland Raiders 1968
Oakland Raiders 1967
Philadelphia Eagles 1949
San Francisco 49ers 1948
Houston Oilers 1961
St. Louis Rams 2001
Green Bay Packers 1996
Chicago Bears 1985
Los Angeles Rams 1973
Baltimore Colts 1964
Cleveland Browns 1950
Chicago Cardinals 1948
Philadelphia Eagles 1948
San Francisco 49ers 1949
Philadelphia Stars 1984
Cleveland Browns 1947
(extra five teams at the bottom due to ties)

Provides a slightly different look to things. In that last ranking, the Falcons slide all the way to #80 behind such USFL luminaries as the 1984 Stallions and the 1984 Arizona Wranglers.

Wolfpack · 06-14-2004, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD

No love for the '93 Cowboys? I've always felt that they were a better team than the '92 bunch...

The 1992 team tied for 27th in the first list, while the 1993 team was among many tied at #54 in the same list. In the second list, 1992 Dallas falls to a tie for 52nd and 1993 Dallas drops to 135th (along with teams like the 1999 Rams). In the third list, 1992 Dallas is tied for 25th, and 1993 Dallas is tied at 35th. In the last list, 1992 Dallas is tied for 60th and 1993 Dallas is tied for 117th.

According to the game's ratings, the 1992 team had a slightly better offense, whereas both teams were each other's equal on defense. In a normalized neutral site game, it would actually be a "Pick 'em" contest (both teams expected to score 20 points).

Wolfpack · 06-15-2004, 11:17 AM

Here are the pairings for group two:

Code:

Cleveland Browns 1966 (9-5)		vs.	Los Angeles Rams 1975 (12-2, D)
Kansas City Chiefs 1980 (8-8)		vs.	Buffalo Bills 1996 (10-6, WC)
Dallas Cowboys 1970 (10-4, C)		vs.	Minnesota Vikings 1970 (12-2, D)
Indianapolis Colts 2003 (12-4, D)	vs.	Detroit Lions 1965 (6-7-1)
Houston Oilers 1993 (12-4, D)		vs.	Denver Broncos 1973 (7-5-2)
Cleveland Browns 1973 (7-5-2)		vs.	Green Bay Packers 1999 (8-8)
Seattle Seahawks 2002 (7-9)		vs.	New York Giants 1985 (10-6, WC)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1980 (5-10-1)	vs.	Cleveland Browns 1975 (3-11)
Philadelphia Eagles 1999 (5-11)		vs.	Seattle Seahawks 1998 (8-8)
Phoenix Cardinals 1989 (5-11)		vs.	Houston Oilers 1988 (10-6, WC)
Oakland Raiders 1999 (8-8)		vs.	San Diego Chargers 1997 (4-12)
San Diego Chargers 1995	(9-7, WC)	vs.	San Francisco 49ers 1959 (7-5)
Minnesota Vikings 1973 (12-2, C)	vs.	St. Louis Cardinals 1975 (11-3, D)
Atlanta Falcons 1999 (5-11)		vs.	New Orleans Saints 1992 (12-4, WC)
New Orleans Saints 1969	(5-9)		vs.	Cincinnati Bengals 2000 (4-12)
Kansas City Chiefs 1995	(13-3, D)	vs.	Houston Oilers 1994 (2-14)
Minnesota Vikings 1996 (9-7, WC)	vs.	St. Louis Cardinals 1984 (9-7)
Detroit Lions 1980 (9-7)		vs.	Minnesota Vikings 2002 (6-10)
New Orleans Saints 1987 (12-3, WC)	vs.	Cincinnati Bengals 2003 (8-8)
Philadelphia Eagles 1995 (10-6, WC)	vs.	Phoenix Cardinals 1990 (5-11)
Birmingham Stallions 1985 (13-5,USFL-C)	vs.	Washington Redskins 1992 (9-7)
Denver Broncos 1989 (11-5, C)		vs.	Jacksonville Jaguars 1999 (14-2, D)
Seattle Seahawks 1991 (7-9)		vs.	Pittsburgh Steelers 1995 (11-5, C)
Pittsburgh Steelers 2000 (9-7)		vs.	Dallas Cowboys 1975 (10-4, C)
Denver Broncos 2002 (9-7)		vs.	Los Angeles Rams 1992 (6-10)
Philadelphia Eagles 1984 (6-9-1)	vs.	Minnesota Vikings 1993 (9-7, WC)
San Diego Chargers 2003 (4-12)		vs.	Buffalo Bills 1998 (10-6, WC)
Cleveland Browns 1978 (8-8)		vs.	New England Patriots 1998 (9-7, WC)
New England Patriots 1978 (11-5, D)	vs.	Carolina Panthers 2002 (7-9)
Denver Broncos 1991 (12-4, D)		vs.	Pittsburgh Steelers 1998 (7-9)
Green Bay Packers 1983 (8-8)		vs.	Arizona Cardinals 1998 (9-7, WC)
Minnesota Vikings 1989 (10-6, D)	vs.	Seattle Seahawks 1990 (9-7)

Headliner: 1970 Dallas vs. 1970 Minnesota
*This should be a good one. No concerns about cross-era normalization or anything. Just two of the best of the 1970 season going at it. Minnesota was 12-2, the best in the NFL that year, but were upset by NFC West winner San Francisco at home. Dallas took the NFC East at 10-4, won the playoff opener 5-0 over Detroit on a two-run shot and a three-run homer, then beat San Francisco in the NFC Championship 17-10, but lost in Super Bowl V to Baltimore 16-13 in a mistake-prone game won on a last second field goal. A bit more? Okay. Minnesota demolished Dallas 54-13 at Metropolitan Stadium on October 18, 1970.

Other playoff team matchups:
*1973 Minnesota (NFC Champions) vs. 1975 St. Louis Cardinals (NFC East Champions)
*1989 Denver (AFC Champions) vs. 1999 Jacksonville (AFC Central Champions)
(surprisingly, these are the only two)

Matchup no one wants tickets to see: 1980 Tampa Bay vs. 1975 Cleveland
By a hair, this wins the award. The only other worthy pairing was 1969 New Orleans and 2000 Cincinnati, but the tie by Tampa in their season clinches it. Both teams combined for a record of 8-21-1. 42 other teams in the group have that many wins by themselves.

Wolfpack · 06-15-2004, 01:27 PM

Results of the first game in each series are in:

Code:

Cleveland Browns 1966 (9-5)		21-23	Los Angeles Rams 1975 (12-2, D)
Kansas City Chiefs 1980 (8-8)		23-10	Buffalo Bills 1996 (10-6, WC)
Dallas Cowboys 1970 (10-4, C)		 7-14	Minnesota Vikings 1970 (12-2, D)
Indianapolis Colts 2003 (12-4, D)	38- 3	Detroit Lions 1965 (6-7-1)
Houston Oilers 1993 (12-4, D)		45- 7	Denver Broncos 1973 (7-5-2)
Cleveland Browns 1973 (7-5-2)		 7-17	Green Bay Packers 1999 (8-8)
Seattle Seahawks 2002 (7-9)		14-49	New York Giants 1985 (10-6, WC)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1980 (5-10-1)	31-19	Cleveland Browns 1975 (3-11)
Philadelphia Eagles 1999 (5-11)		 9-34	Seattle Seahawks 1998 (8-8)
Phoenix Cardinals 1989 (5-11)		 9-41	Houston Oilers 1988 (10-6, WC)
Oakland Raiders 1999 (8-8)		23-30	San Diego Chargers 1997 (4-12)
San Diego Chargers 1995	(9-7, WC)	31-28	San Francisco 49ers 1959 (7-5)
Minnesota Vikings 1973 (12-2, C)	14- 7	St. Louis Cardinals 1975 (11-3, D)
Atlanta Falcons 1999 (5-11)		14-24	New Orleans Saints 1992 (12-4, WC)
New Orleans Saints 1969	(5-9)		14-23	Cincinnati Bengals 2000 (4-12)
Kansas City Chiefs 1995	(13-3, D)	20-14*	Houston Oilers 1994 (2-14)
Minnesota Vikings 1996 (9-7, WC)	 6-31	St. Louis Cardinals 1984 (9-7)
Detroit Lions 1980 (9-7)		21-14	Minnesota Vikings 2002 (6-10)
New Orleans Saints 1987 (12-3, WC)	34-16	Cincinnati Bengals 2003 (8-8)
Philadelphia Eagles 1995 (10-6, WC)	21- 7	Phoenix Cardinals 1990 (5-11)
Birmingham Stallions 1985 (13-5,USFL-C)	 0-21	Washington Redskins 1992 (9-7)
Denver Broncos 1989 (11-5, C)		 9-20	Jacksonville Jaguars 1999 (14-2, D)
Seattle Seahawks 1991 (7-9)		16-34	Pittsburgh Steelers 1995 (11-5, C)
Pittsburgh Steelers 2000 (9-7)		34-16	Dallas Cowboys 1975 (10-4, C)
Denver Broncos 2002 (9-7)		 3-20	Los Angeles Rams 1992 (6-10)
Philadelphia Eagles 1984 (6-9-1)	11-21	Minnesota Vikings 1993 (9-7, WC)
San Diego Chargers 2003 (4-12)		19-30	Buffalo Bills 1998 (10-6, WC)
Cleveland Browns 1978 (8-8)		20-34	New England Patriots 1998 (9-7, WC)
New England Patriots 1978 (11-5, D)	 9- 6	Carolina Panthers 2002 (7-9)
Denver Broncos 1991 (12-4, D)		21- 7	Pittsburgh Steelers 1998 (7-9)
Green Bay Packers 1983 (8-8)		38-43	Arizona Cardinals 1998 (9-7, WC)
Minnesota Vikings 1989 (10-6, D)	21- 7	Seattle Seahawks 1990 (9-7)

*-in OT

Headliner: 1970 Dallas at 1970 Minnesota
*The Vikings came in a pretty strong favorite (-11), somewhat deserved as they had flattened the Cowboys on the same field during the 1970 regular season. This time, the Cowboys offered up a fight. A defensive war was engaged for the entire first half as neither team was able to break through to put up so much as a field goal on the scoreboard, leaving things at halftime the way they started, 0-0. In the third, the Cowboys briefly took the lead with a touchdown, but the Vikings answered immediately to tie things up at 7. The game remained tied until the very last minutes of the fourth quarter as the Vikings suddenly broke the Dallas defense on a big 63-yard touchdown pass to take a 14-7 lead. The Cowboys made an effort to answer, but only got to the Minnesota 31 before running out of time. A last-second heave to the end zone fell incomplete. Minnesota takes game one, 14-7.

Other playoff team matchups:
*1973 Minnesota 14, 1975 St. Louis Cardinals 7 (Minnesota leads series 1-0)
*1999 Jacksonville 20, 1989 Denver 9 (Jacksonville leads series 1-0)

Upsets:
*1980 Kansas City 23, 1996 Buffalo 10 (Buffalo -15)
*1997 San Diego 30, 1999 Oakland 23 (Oakland -8)
*1973 Minnesota 14, 1975 St. Louis Cardinals 7 (Cardinals -3)
*1980 Detroit 21, 2002 Minnesota 14 (Minnesota -4)
*1992 LA Rams 20, 2002 Denver 3 (Denver -7)
*1978 New England 9, 2002 Carolina 6 (Carolina -10)
*1989 Minnesota 21, 1990 Seattle 7 (Seattle -4)
(I've decided to list all upsets rather than just big ones)

Matchup no one wants tickets to see:
*1980 Tampa Bay 31, 1975 Cleveland 19 (Tampa Bay leads series 1-0)

Wolfpack · 06-15-2004, 01:54 PM

Results of the second game of each series are in:

Code:

Los Angeles Rams 1975 (12-2, D)		10- 3	Cleveland Browns 1966 (9-5)
Buffalo Bills 1996 (10-6, WC)		27-21*	Kansas City Chiefs 1980 (8-8)
Minnesota Vikings 1970 (12-2, D) 	 3-14	Dallas Cowboys 1970 (10-4, C)
Detroit Lions 1965 (6-7-1)		 0-44	Indianapolis Colts 2003 (12-4, D)
Denver Broncos 1973 (7-5-2)		17-37	Houston Oilers 1993 (12-4, D)
Green Bay Packers 1999 (8-8) 		23-13	Cleveland Browns 1973 (7-5-2)
New York Giants 1985 (10-6, WC)		33-14	Seattle Seahawks 2002 (7-9)
Cleveland Browns 1975 (3-11)		31-33	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1980 (5-10-1)
Seattle Seahawks 1998 (8-8) 		31-10	Philadelphia Eagles 1999 (5-11)
Houston Oilers 1988 (10-6, WC) 		31-24	Phoenix Cardinals 1989 (5-11)
San Diego Chargers 1997 (4-12)		10-27	Oakland Raiders 1999 (8-8)
San Francisco 49ers 1959 (7-5)		 6-30	San Diego Chargers 1995 (9-7, WC)
St. Louis Cardinals 1975 (11-3, D)	24-12	Minnesota Vikings 1973 (12-2, C)
New Orleans Saints 1992 (12-4, WC)	22-26	Atlanta Falcons 1999 (5-11)
Cincinnati Bengals 2000 (4-12)		34-28	New Orleans Saints 1969	(5-9)
Houston Oilers 1994 (2-14)		 7-40	Kansas City Chiefs 1995 (13-3, D)
St. Louis Cardinals 1984 (9-7) 		 7-27	Minnesota Vikings 1996 (9-7, WC)
Minnesota Vikings 2002 (6-10)		10-38	Detroit Lions 1980 (9-7)
Cincinnati Bengals 2003 (8-8)		13-30	New Orleans Saints 1987 (12-3, WC)
Phoenix Cardinals 1990 (5-11)		20-10	Philadelphia Eagles 1995 (10-6, WC)
Washington Redskins 1992 (9-7) 		42- 0	Birmingham Stallions 1985 (13-5,USFL-C)
Jacksonville Jaguars 1999 (14-2, D) 	27-10	Denver Broncos 1989 (11-5, C)
Pittsburgh Steelers 1995 (11-5, C)	23-20	Seattle Seahawks 1991 (7-9)
Dallas Cowboys 1975 (10-4, C)		13-31	Pittsburgh Steelers 2000 (9-7)
Los Angeles Rams 1992 (6-10) 		33-25	Denver Broncos 2002 (9-7)
Minnesota Vikings 1993 (9-7, WC)	27-24	Philadelphia Eagles 1984 (6-9-1)
Buffalo Bills 1998 (10-6, WC)		21-34	San Diego Chargers 2003 (4-12)
New England Patriots 1998 (9-7, WC)	41-10	Cleveland Browns 1978 (8-8)
Carolina Panthers 2002 (7-9) 		10-14	New England Patriots 1978 (11-5, D)
Pittsburgh Steelers 1998 (7-9)		10-18	Denver Broncos 1991 (12-4, D)
Arizona Cardinals 1998 (9-7, WC)	44-32	Green Bay Packers 1983 (8-8)
Seattle Seahawks 1990 (9-7)		 3-34	Minnesota Vikings 1989 (10-6, D)

*-in OT
Series winners bolded

Headliner: 1970 Minnesota at 1970 Dallas
*Thus far, the series hasn't failed to live up to expectations. Another defensive war between these two as this time, only Minnesota drummed up a field goal to complete the first half scoring. In the second half, the Cowboy defense continued to play spectacularly, but the Viking defense broke down on two separate occasions, once in the third to give the Cowboys a 7-3 lead and then a more crippling collapse in the fourth that yielded a second touchdown that cemented the game for the Cowboys. Dallas wins the second game 14-3 and squares the series at one. Minnesota will be a six-point favorite in the neutral site game to decide the series.

Other playoff team matchups:
*1975 St. Louis Cardinals 24, 1973 Minnesota 12 (series tied 1-1)
*1999 Jacksonville 27, 1989 Denver 10 (Jacksonville wins series 2-0)

Upset update:
*1996 Buffalo 27, 1980 Kansas City 21 (OT) (series tied 1-1)
*1999 Oakland 27, 1997 San Diego 10 (series tied 1-1)
*1975 St. Louis Cardinals 24, 1973 Minnesota 12 (series tied 1-1)
*1980 Detroit 38, 2002 Minnesota 10 (Detroit wins series 2-0)
*1992 LA Rams 33, 2002 Denver 25 (LA Rams win series 2-0) (SERIES UPSET)
*1978 New England 14, 2002 Carolina 10 (New England wins series 2-0) (SERIES UPSET)
*1989 Minnesota 34, 1990 Seattle 7 (Minnesota wins series 2-0)

Upsets in game two:
*1970 Dallas 14, 1970 Minnesota 3 (Minnesota -3)
*1985 NY Giants 33, 2002 Seattle 14 (Seattle -1)
*1975 St. Louis Cardinals 24, 1973 Minnesota 12 (Minnesota -5)
*1999 Atlanta 26, 1992 New Orleans 22 (New Orleans -6)
*1990 Phoenix Cardinals 20, 1995 Philadelphia 10 (Philadelphia -10)
*1992 LA Rams 33, 2002 Denver 25 (Denver -15)
*2003 San Diego 34, 1998 Buffalo 21 (Buffalo -8)
*1978 New England 14, 2002 Carolina 10 (Carolina -2)

Matchup nobody wants tickets to see:
*1980 Tampa Bay 33, 1975 Cleveland 31 (Tampa Bay wins series 2-0)

Wolfpack · 06-15-2004, 02:01 PM

A moment of silence, please. The 1985 Birmingham Stallions have been eliminated. As a result, the USFL is now completely eliminated from the tournament.

.

.

.

.

Thank you.

sterlingice · 06-15-2004, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

A moment of silence, please. The 1985 Birmingham Stallions have been eliminated. As a result, the USFL is now completely eliminated from the tournament.

.

.

.

.

Thank you.

INHERENT BIAS!

SI

Wolfpack · 06-15-2004, 03:16 PM

Game threes are played out...

Code:

Kansas City Chiefs 1980 (8-8)		17-10	Buffalo Bills 1996 (10-6, WC)
Dallas Cowboys 1970 (10-4, C)		14-17*	Minnesota Vikings 1970 (12-2, D)
Oakland Raiders 1999 (8-8)		34-10	San Diego Chargers 1997 (4-12)
Minnesota Vikings 1973 (12-2, C)	17- 7	St. Louis Cardinals 1975 (11-3, D)
Atlanta Falcons 1999 (5-11)		27-34	New Orleans Saints 1992 (12-4, WC)
Minnesota Vikings 1996 (9-7, WC)	41-28	St. Louis Cardinals 1984 (9-7)
Philadelphia Eagles 1995 (10-6, WC)	17-20	Phoenix Cardinals 1990 (5-11)
San Diego Chargers 2003 (4-12)		28-52	Buffalo Bills 1998 (10-6, WC)

*-in OT
Series winners bolded

Headliner: 1970 Dallas vs. 1970 Minnesota
*One of the best series in a while has a game three so good and so close, it needs more time beyond the sixty minutes to decide who'll win. The game starts quickly, unlike the prior two games in the series, with both teams scoring touchdowns in the first, leaving the game tied at 7 after one. Defenses re-assert themselves, however, in the second, producing 15 scoreless minutes of football before halftime. In the third, the Vikings took the lead on a touchdown and made that stand up until late in the fourth quarter, when Dallas struck for a touchdown from 34 yards out to tie the game at 14. Minnesota made a risky play by going for a 60-yard field goal on the last play of the game and nearly had it backfire as it was blocked, but Dallas failed to recover and score. The Vikings got the ball first in overtime and moved into field goal range, where they lined up for a more reasonable 40-yard attempt. Snap, hold, it's up...it's good! It's good! The Vikings win! Minnesota wins game three 17-14 in overtime and takes the series 2-1!

Other playoff team matchups:
*1973 Minnesota 17, 1975 St. Louis Cardinals 7 (Minnesota wins series 2-1)

Upset updates:
*1980 Kansas City 17, 1996 Buffalo 10 (Kansas City wins series 2-1) (SERIES UPSET)
*1970 Minnesota 17, 1970 Dallas 14 (OT) (Minnesota wins series 2-1)
*1999 Oakland 34, 1997 San Diego 10 (Oakland wins series 2-1)
*1973 Minnesota 17, 1975 St. Louis Cardinals 7 (Minnesota wins series 2-1)
*1992 New Orleans 34, 1999 Atlanta 27 (New Orleans wins 2-1)
*1990 Phoenix Cardinals 20, 1995 Philadelphia 17 (Cardinals win 2-1) (SERIES UPSET)
*1998 Buffalo 52, 2003 San Diego 28 (Buffalo wins series 2-1)

Upsets in game three:
*1980 Kansas City 17, 1996 Buffalo 10 (Buffalo -11)
*1996 Minnesota 41, 1984 St. Louis Cardinals 28 (Cardinals -1) (SERIES UPSET)
*1990 Phoenix Cardinals 20, 1995 Philadelphia 17 (Philadelphia -6)

SplitPersonality1 · 06-15-2004, 03:20 PM

All 5 Minnesota teams advance. Woohoo.

Wolfpack · 06-15-2004, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SplitPersonality1

All 5 Minnesota teams advance. Woohoo.

Keep reading. They had another five in this next batch, though they weren't quite as successful this time. (Then again, when you start 5-for-5, anything is a fall-off.)

JeeberD · 06-15-2004, 03:46 PM

Bah, fucking Vikings...

Wolfpack · 06-16-2004, 10:44 AM

Pairings for group three:

Code:

Kansas City Chiefs 1991 (10-6, WC)	vs.	St. Louis Cardinals 1970 (8-5-1)
New York Giants 1950 (10-2)		vs.	New England Patriots 1990 (1-15)
Kansas City Chiefs 1993 (11-5, D)	vs.	St. Louis Cardinals 1979 (5-11)
New York Jets 1979 (8-8)		vs.	Carolina Panthers 2000 (7-9)
Kansas City Chiefs 1978 (4-12)		vs.	Arizona Cardinals 1999 (6-10)
Tennessee Oilers 1997 (8-8)		vs.	Miami Dolphins 2000 (11-5, D)
Washington Redskins 2000 (8-8)		vs.	Kansas City Chiefs 1973 (7-5-2)
New Orleans Saints 1999	(3-13) 		vs.	Kansas City Chiefs 1982 (3-6)
St. Louis Rams 2002 (7-9)		vs.	Minnesota Vikings 1995 (8-8)
Indianapolis Colts 1987 (9-6, D)	vs.	Miami Dolphins 1994 (10-6, D)
Minnesota Vikings 1987 (8-7, WC)	vs.	Chicago Bears 1986 (14-2, D)
Jacksonville Jaguars 2001 (6-10)	vs.	Philadelphia Eagles 1964 (6-8)
Chicago Bears 1988 (12-4, D)		vs.	San Diego Chargers 1989 (6-10)
San Diego Chargers 1994 (11-5, C)	vs.	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1990 (6-10)
St. Louis Cardinals 1960 (6-5-1)	vs.	Seattle Seahawks 1985 (8-8)
Chicago Bears 2001 (13-3, D)		vs.	Houston Texans 2003 (5-11)
Seattle Seahawks 1981 (6-10)		vs.	Miami Dolphins 1979 (10-6, D)
Kansas City Chiefs 1994 (9-7, WC)	vs.	St. Louis Cardinals 1977 (7-7)
Seattle Seahawks 1997 (8-8)		vs.	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2000 (10-6, WC)
Houston Oilers 1989 (9-7, WC)		vs.	Washington Redskins 1981 (8-8)
Kansas City Chiefs 1983	(6-10)		vs.	Oakland Raiders 2000 (12-4, D)
Los Angeles Rams 1990 (5-11)		vs.	Miami Dolphins 1992 (11-5, D)
New Orleans Saints 1988	(10-6)		vs.	San Diego Chargers 1999 (8-8)
Denver Broncos 1995 (8-8)		vs.	Green Bay Packers 2003 (10-6, D)
Kansas City Chiefs 1990 (11-5, WC)	vs.	Denver Broncos 1994 (7-9)
Dallas Cowboys 2000 (5-11)		vs.	San Diego Chargers 1991 (4-12)
New York Giants 1939 (9-1-1, C)		vs.	San Diego Chargers 1986 (4-12)
Minnesota Vikings 1964 (8-5-1)		vs.	Washington Redskins 1973 (10-4, WC)
Oakland Raiders 1969 (12-1-1, AFL-D)	vs.	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2003 (7-9)
San Diego Chargers 1966 (7-6-1)		vs.	Los Angeles Rams 1994 (4-12)
Cleveland Browns 2003 (5-11)		vs.	Pittsburgh Steelers 1973 (10-4, WC)
Green Bay Packers 1989 (10-6)		vs.	San Francisco 49ers 1996 (12-4, WC)

Random selection is bizarre at times. Following a group that featured some pretty solid teams, including a number of conference champs, this group seems much weaker as a whole. Maybe it's that 1-15 mark the 1990 Pats are sporting or something, but there seems to be less meat here. Another quirk of random selection is the fact that the Kansas City Chiefs have eight, count 'em, eight matchups in this group alone. Even more strange is the fact that they play the Cardinals in four of those matchups (three against St. Louis, one against Arizona).

Headliner: 1987 Indianapolis vs. 1994 Miami
*There isn't much to choose from, really. The Colts won the AFC East in the strike-marred 1987 season, but got bounced in the divisional round by Cleveland. The Dolphins won the AFC East at 10-6 in 1994, beat the Chiefs in the wild card round, but then lost to eventual AFC Champion San Diego the next weekend.

Other playoff team matchups:
*1987 Minnesota (wild card) vs. 1986 Chicago (NFC Central champions)
(Just the one pairing, sorry.)

Matchup nobody wants tickets to see: 1999 New Orleans vs. 1982 Kansas City
*A wonderful gem of a matchup between a lousy Saints team that went 3-13 and a Chiefs team that went 3-6 and was one of the six in the AFC that missed the playoffs in the strike-shortened 1982 season. Even in this weak group, 52 teams managed to get six wins by themselves.

Wolfpack · 06-16-2004, 01:07 PM

Scores from game one:

Code:

Kansas City Chiefs 1991 (10-6, WC)	27- 3	St. Louis Cardinals 1970 (8-5-1)
New York Giants 1950 (10-2)		30-16	New England Patriots 1990 (1-15)
Kansas City Chiefs 1993 (11-5, D)	33- 3	St. Louis Cardinals 1979 (5-11)
New York Jets 1979 (8-8)		21-24*	Carolina Panthers 2000 (7-9)
Kansas City Chiefs 1978 (4-12)		14-24	Arizona Cardinals 1999 (6-10)
Tennessee Oilers 1997 (8-8)		14-26	Miami Dolphins 2000 (11-5, D)
Washington Redskins 2000 (8-8)		20-14*	Kansas City Chiefs 1973 (7-5-2)
New Orleans Saints 1999	(3-13) 		20-17	Kansas City Chiefs 1982 (3-6)
St. Louis Rams 2002 (7-9)		41-31	Minnesota Vikings 1995 (8-8)
Indianapolis Colts 1987 (9-6, D)	21-33	Miami Dolphins 1994 (10-6, D)
Minnesota Vikings 1987 (8-7, WC)	 3-30	Chicago Bears 1986 (14-2, D)
Jacksonville Jaguars 2001 (6-10)	41-21	Philadelphia Eagles 1964 (6-8)
Chicago Bears 1988 (12-4, D)		17-13	San Diego Chargers 1989 (6-10)
San Diego Chargers 1994 (11-5, C)	19-10	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1990 (6-10)
St. Louis Cardinals 1960 (6-5-1)	24-38	Seattle Seahawks 1985 (8-8)
Chicago Bears 2001 (13-3, D)		27- 7	Houston Texans 2003 (5-11)
Seattle Seahawks 1981 (6-10)		14-34	Miami Dolphins 1979 (10-6, D)
Kansas City Chiefs 1994 (9-7, WC)	38-20	St. Louis Cardinals 1977 (7-7)
Seattle Seahawks 1997 (8-8)		37-34*	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2000 (10-6, WC)
Houston Oilers 1989 (9-7, WC)		24-38	Washington Redskins 1981 (8-8)
Kansas City Chiefs 1983	(6-10)		 6-47	Oakland Raiders 2000 (12-4, D)
Los Angeles Rams 1990 (5-11)		17-24	Miami Dolphins 1992 (11-5, D)
New Orleans Saints 1988	(10-6)		27-21*	San Diego Chargers 1999 (8-8)
Denver Broncos 1995 (8-8)		18-41	Green Bay Packers 2003 (10-6, D)
Kansas City Chiefs 1990 (11-5, WC)	27- 7	Denver Broncos 1994 (7-9)
Dallas Cowboys 2000 (5-11)		 9-31	San Diego Chargers 1991 (4-12)
New York Giants 1939 (9-1-1, C)		10-35	San Diego Chargers 1986 (4-12)
Minnesota Vikings 1964 (8-5-1)		19- 3	Washington Redskins 1973 (10-4, WC)
Oakland Raiders 1969 (12-1-1, AFL-D)	 7-33	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2003 (7-9)
San Diego Chargers 1966 (7-6-1)		 6-27	Los Angeles Rams 1994 (4-12)
Cleveland Browns 2003 (5-11)		27-33*	Pittsburgh Steelers 1973 (10-4, WC)
Green Bay Packers 1989 (10-6)		 7-17	San Francisco 49ers 1996 (12-4, WC)

*-in OT

As it turns out, I did find another bug related to the close game table, but it only occurs in the rare instance of a team trailing by eight points. Teams weren't going for two to tie like they should have if they scored a touchdown in that instance. That is fixed in the code now and I corrected the results of a pair of games affected by this in this group manually.

Headliner: 1987 Indianapolis at 1994 Miami
*A pretty good affair for a half as the Colts and Dolphins traded punches during the opening two quarters. The net result left the Colts in front 14-13. The second half was pretty much all Miami, though. They scored 10 unanswered in the third and then answered a Colt touchdown with 10 more in the fourth to put the game out of reach. Miami take the first game 33-21.

Other playoff team matchups:
*1986 Chicago 30, 1987 Minnesota 3 (Chicago leads series 1-0)

Upsets in game one:
*1991 Kansas City 27, 1970 St. Louis Cardinals 3 (Cardinals -1)
*1999 New Orleans 20, 1982 Kansas City 17 (Kansas City -7)
*2002 St. Louis Rams 41, 1995 Minnesota 31 (Minnesota -10)
*1997 Seattle 37, 2000 Tampa Bay 34 (OT) (Tampa Bay -8)
*1988 New Orleans 27, 1999 San Diego 21 (OT) (San Diego -7)
*1964 Minnesota 19, 1973 Washington 3 (Washington -8)

Matchup nobody wants tickets to see:
*1999 New Orleans 20, 1982 Kansas City 17 (New Orleans leads series 1-0)

Wolfpack · 06-16-2004, 01:38 PM

Game two results:

Code:

St. Louis Cardinals 1970 (8-5-1)	24-12	Kansas City Chiefs 1991 (10-6, WC)
New England Patriots 1990 (1-15)	19-16	New York Giants 1950 (10-2)
St. Louis Cardinals 1979 (5-11)		10-17	Kansas City Chiefs 1993 (11-5, D)
Carolina Panthers 2000 (7-9)		17-20	New York Jets 1979 (8-8)
Arizona Cardinals 1999 (6-10)		17- 7	Kansas City Chiefs 1978 (4-12)
Miami Dolphins 2000 (11-5, D)		17-14	Tennessee Oilers 1997 (8-8)
Kansas City Chiefs 1973 (7-5-2)		 3- 9	Washington Redskins 2000 (8-8)
Kansas City Chiefs 1982 (3-6)		30-27*	New Orleans Saints 1999	(3-13)
Minnesota Vikings 1995 (8-8)		24-27*	St. Louis Rams 2002 (7-9)
Miami Dolphins 1994 (10-6, D)		28- 3	Indianapolis Colts 1987 (9-6, D)
Chicago Bears 1986 (14-2, D)		30-24*	Minnesota Vikings 1987 (8-7, WC)
Philadelphia Eagles 1964 (6-8)		13-15	Jacksonville Jaguars 2001 (6-10)
San Diego Chargers 1989 (6-10)		19-25*	Chicago Bears 1988 (12-4, D)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1990 (6-10)	14-35	San Diego Chargers 1994 (11-5, C)
Seattle Seahawks 1985 (8-8)		33-30*	St. Louis Cardinals 1960 (6-5-1)
Houston Texans 2003 (5-11)		 0-27	Chicago Bears 2001 (13-3, D)
Miami Dolphins 1979 (10-6, D)		26-23**	Seattle Seahawks 1981 (6-10)
St. Louis Cardinals 1977 (7-7)		10-27	Kansas City Chiefs 1994 (9-7, WC)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2000 (10-6, WC)	40-14	Seattle Seahawks 1997 (8-8)
Washington Redskins 1981 (8-8)		30-36*  Houston Oilers 1989 (9-7, WC)
Oakland Raiders 2000 (12-4, D)		53-14	Kansas City Chiefs 1983	(6-10)
Miami Dolphins 1992 (11-5, D)		20-24	Los Angeles Rams 1990 (5-11)
San Diego Chargers 1999 (8-8)		12-21	New Orleans Saints 1988 (10-6)
Green Bay Packers 2003 (10-6, D)	33-30*	Denver Broncos 1995 (8-8)
Denver Broncos 1994 (7-9)		10-24	Kansas City Chiefs 1990 (11-5, WC)
San Diego Chargers 1991 (4-12)		24-35	Dallas Cowboys 2000 (5-11)
San Diego Chargers 1986 (4-12)		31-13	New York Giants 1939 (9-1-1, C)
Washington Redskins 1973 (10-4, WC)	14-17	Minnesota Vikings 1964 (8-5-1)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2003 (7-9)		35-10	Oakland Raiders 1969 (12-1-1, AFL-D)
Los Angeles Rams 1994 (4-12)		10-15	San Diego Chargers 1966 (7-6-1)
Pittsburgh Steelers 1973 (10-4, WC)	14-19	Cleveland Browns 2003 (5-11)
San Francisco 49ers 1996 (12-4, WC)	31-10	Green Bay Packers 1989 (10-6)

*-in OT
**-in two OTs
Series winners bolded

What this group lacks in clout, it definitely made up for in entertainment as a staggering number of games go to overtime and the tournament finally has a double-overtime affair, a 26-23 marathon contest between 1979 Miami and 1981 Seattle that wasn't settled until the Dolphins converted a 40-yard field goal midway through the second OT.

Headliner: 1994 Miami at 1987 Indianapolis
*Of course, none of those entertaining games would happen in this particular series. Unlike game one, the Dolphins controlled this one from the outset, surrendering only a field goal in the second while the offense churned out a touchdown in each quarter. Miami wins game two 28-3 and takes the series 2-0.

Other playoff team matchups:
*1986 Chicago 30, 1987 Minnesota 24 (OT) (Chicago wins series 2-0)

Upset updates:
*1970 St. Louis Cardinals 24, 1991 Kansas City 12 (series tied 1-1)
*1982 Kansas City 30, 1999 New Orleans 27 (OT) (series tied 1-1)
*2002 St. Louis Rams 27, 1995 Minnesota 24 (OT) (Rams win series 2-0) (SERIES UPSET)
*2000 Tampa Bay 40, 1997 Seattle 14 (series tied 1-1)
*1988 New Orleans 21, 1999 San Diego 21 (New Orleans wins series 2-0)
*1964 Minnesota 17, 1973 Washington 14 (Minnesota wins series 2-0)

Upsets in game two:
*1970 St. Louis Cardinals 24, 1991 Kansas City 12 (Kansas City -7)
*1990 New England 19, 1950 New York Giants 16 (Giants -13)
*1979 New York Jets 20, 2000 Carolina 17 (Carolina -7)
*1982 Kansas City 30, 1999 New Orleans 27 (New Orleans -1)
*2002 St. Louis Rams 27, 1995 Minnesota 24 (OT) (Minnesota -2)
*1966 San Diego 15, 1994 LA Rams 10 (Rams -9)

Matchup nobody wants tickets to see:
*1982 Kansas City 30, 1999 New Orleans 27 (OT) (series tied 1-1)

Wolfpack · 06-16-2004, 03:22 PM

Game threes for this group:

Code:

Kansas City Chiefs 1991 (10-6, WC)	16-40	St. Louis Cardinals 1970 (8-5-1)
New York Giants 1950 (10-2)		 6-21	New England Patriots 1990 (1-15)
New York Jets 1979 (8-8)		 7-24	Carolina Panthers 2000 (7-9)
New Orleans Saints 1999	(3-13) 		17-24	Kansas City Chiefs 1982 (3-6)
Seattle Seahawks 1997 (8-8)		24-23	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2000 (10-6, WC)
Houston Oilers 1989 (9-7, WC)		 9-16	Washington Redskins 1981 (8-8)
Los Angeles Rams 1990 (5-11)		21-37	Miami Dolphins 1992 (11-5, D)
Dallas Cowboys 2000 (5-11)		20-38	San Diego Chargers 1991 (4-12)
San Diego Chargers 1966 (7-6-1)		28-30	Los Angeles Rams 1994 (4-12)
Cleveland Browns 2003 (5-11)		21- 3	Pittsburgh Steelers 1973 (10-4, WC)

It's the ghastly truth. The 1990 New England Patriots pull the upset of the group by knocking out the 1950 Giants, who were heavily favored in all three contests. A 1-15 team marches on to round four. Not only that, but so do a 7-9 team, a 3-6 team, and a pair of 4-12 teams. They join a pair of 6-10 teams and a 7-9 team that advanced earlier. That's eight teams that finished below .500 moving on from this group. Told you it wasn't the best group.

Upsets in game three:
*1970 St. Louis Cardinals 40, 1991 Kansas City 16 (Kansas City -3) (SERIES UPSET)
*1990 New England 21, 1950 New York Giants 6 (Giants -9) (SERIES UPSET)
*1997 Seattle 24, 2000 Tampa Bay 23 (Tampa Bay -4) (SERIES UPSET)
*1991 San Diego 38, 2000 Dallas 20 (Dallas -2) (SERIES UPSET)

Wolfpack · 06-16-2004, 03:24 PM

One other note about the group. The Houston Texans become the first current NFL team to lose all their teams from the tournament after the 2003 squad was routed out by the 2001 Bears. Granted, they only had two to start with.

Wolfpack · 06-16-2004, 04:16 PM

Here's the pairings for group four. After the winners are determined, we'll be halfway done with the round and I'll post the list of the 128 teams that are moving on to round four.

Code:

Green Bay Packers 2002 (12-4, D)	vs.	Pittsburgh Steelers 1980 (9-7)
Seattle Seahawks 2000 (6-10)		vs.	Buffalo Bills 1985 (2-14)
Kansas City Chiefs 1997 (13-3, D)	vs.	Chicago Bears 1976 (7-7)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1994 (6-10)	vs.	St. Louis Rams 2000 (10-6, WC)
Cincinnati Bengals 1979 (4-12)		vs.	New England Patriots 1996 (11-5, C)
Green Bay Packers 2001 (12-4, D)	vs.	New York Jets 1999 (8-8)
Atlanta Falcons 1997 (7-9)		vs.	Detroit Lions 1981 (8-8)
Detroit Lions 1970 (10-4, WC)		vs.	Chicago Bears 1962 (9-5)
San Francisco 49ers 1979 (2-14)		vs.	Detroit Lions 1986 (5-11)
Indianapolis Colts 2002 (10-6, WC)	vs.	Detroit Lions 1974 (7-7)
Atlanta Falcons 2003 (5-11)		vs.	Detroit Lions 2003 (5-11)
New England Patriots 1993 (5-11)	vs.	Atlanta Falcons 1998 (14-2, C)
St. Louis Cardinals 1961 (7-7)		vs.	San Francisco 49ers 1993 (10-6)
Dallas Cowboys 1981 (12-4, D)		vs.	New Orleans Saints 1974 (5-9)
Washington Redskins 1986 (12-4, WC)	vs.	New York Jets 1984 (7-9)
Washington Redskins 1972 (11-3, C)	vs.	Carolina Panthers 2003 (11-5, C)
Dallas Cowboys 1994 (12-4, D)		vs.	Kansas City Chiefs 1967 (9-5)
New York Jets 1990 (6-10)		vs.	New England Patriots 1971 (6-8)
Washington Redskins 1976 (10-4, WC)	vs.	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1989 (5-11)
Los Angeles Rams 1949 (8-2-2, C)	vs.	Dallas Cowboys 1999 (8-8)
Philadelphia Eagles 1990 (10-6, WC)	vs.	New England Patriots 1984 (9-7)
Baltimore Ravens 2002 (7-9)		vs.	Detroit Lions 2001 (2-14)
New England Patriots 2002 (9-7)		vs.	Pittsburgh Steelers 2003 (6-10)
Arizona Cardinals 1994 (8-8)		vs.	New Orleans Saints 1968 (4-9-1)
Washington Redskins 1983 (14-2, C)	vs.	Pittsburgh Steelers 1967 (4-9-1)
Washington Redskins 1979 (10-6)		vs.	Philadelphia Eagles 2001 (11-5, D)
Miami Dolphins 1985 (12-4, D)		vs.	Dallas Cowboys 1997 (6-10)
San Francisco 49ers 1987 (13-2, D)	vs.	New England Patriots 1999 (8-8)
Green Bay Packers 1960 (8-4, C)		vs.	New York Jets 1996 (1-15)
New Orleans Saints 1989 (9-7)		vs.	New York Giants 1992 (6-10)
Los Angeles Rams 1976 (10-3-1, D)	vs.	San Diego Chargers 2002 (8-8)
San Diego Chargers 1993 (8-8)		vs.	San Francisco 49ers 1998 (12-4, WC)

This group portends better matchups than the last one, though curiously there is only one playoff team matchup in the entire group. This is not to say that all the other playoff teams have walkovers. Far from it. It looks like many of them have drawn near-playoff teams who typically finished 9-7 or 8-8 but lost out on tiebreakers or whatever.

Headliner: 1972 Washington vs. 2003 Carolina
*It's the only playoff team matchup, so it wins by default. The 1972 Redskins won the NFC East with an 11-3 mark, though they lost two straight at the end of the year. They went on to whip both Green Bay and Dallas, but were beaten by the only perfect team in NFL history, the 1972 Dolphins, 14-7 in Super Bowl VII. The Panthers had risen from the ashes of a 1-15 season in 2001 to 7-9 in 2002 to a surprising 11-5 record and winners of the NFC South in 2003. They beat up Dallas at home in the wild card round, stunned St. Louis in OT on the road, then beat down Philadelphia (also on the road), before falling to the New England Patriots in the wildest finish to a Super Bowl yet seen in Super Bowl XXXVIII. Because of normalization factors, I do expect the Panthers to chug through this matchup like they did against the 1973 Dolphins in the last round.

Matchup nobody wants tickets to see: 1979 San Francisco vs. 1986 Detroit
*By one game, this matchup earns the dubious distinction for this group. The 49ers were a truly awful 2-14 in 1979, little foreshadowing what was to come for the franchise in the 1980s. The 1986 Lions were 5-11, but surprisingly enough finished 3rd in a pretty wretched NFC Central completely dominated by the Bears that year. In all, 44 teams in this group have the same number of wins (7) or more as these two teams combined.

JeeberD · 06-16-2004, 04:30 PM

I'm expecting three of the four Cowboys teams to advance this round...

Wolfpack · 06-16-2004, 04:39 PM

You don't make many reaches, do you?

They do seem to have a pretty good shot at it, though.

Wolfpack · 06-18-2004, 10:41 AM

Game one is played out in group four:

Code:

Green Bay Packers 2002 (12-4, D)	33- 7	Pittsburgh Steelers 1980 (9-7)
Seattle Seahawks 2000 (6-10)		27-14	Buffalo Bills 1985 (2-14)
Kansas City Chiefs 1997 (13-3, D)	37- 6	Chicago Bears 1976 (7-7)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1994 (6-10)	 6-40	St. Louis Rams 2000 (10-6, WC)
Cincinnati Bengals 1979 (4-12)		14-37	New England Patriots 1996 (11-5, C)
Green Bay Packers 2001 (12-4, D)	27-10	New York Jets 1999 (8-8)
Atlanta Falcons 1997 (7-9)		21- 7	Detroit Lions 1981 (8-8)
Detroit Lions 1970 (10-4, WC)		31-21	Chicago Bears 1962 (9-5)
San Francisco 49ers 1979 (2-14)		14-16	Detroit Lions 1986 (5-11)
Indianapolis Colts 2002 (10-6, WC)	29-10	Detroit Lions 1974 (7-7)
Atlanta Falcons 2003 (5-11)		17-30	Detroit Lions 2003 (5-11)
New England Patriots 1993 (5-11)	 7-30	Atlanta Falcons 1998 (14-2, C)
St. Louis Cardinals 1961 (7-7)		 7-22	San Francisco 49ers 1993 (10-6)
Dallas Cowboys 1981 (12-4, D)		24-21	New Orleans Saints 1974 (5-9)
Washington Redskins 1986 (12-4, WC)	 9- 7	New York Jets 1984 (7-9)
Washington Redskins 1972 (11-3, C)	17-31	Carolina Panthers 2003 (11-5, C)
Dallas Cowboys 1994 (12-4, D)		41- 7	Kansas City Chiefs 1967 (9-5)
New York Jets 1990 (6-10)		24-10	New England Patriots 1971 (6-8)
Washington Redskins 1976 (10-4, WC)	30-23	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1989 (5-11)
Los Angeles Rams 1949 (8-2-2, C)	14-27	Dallas Cowboys 1999 (8-8)
Philadelphia Eagles 1990 (10-6, WC)	31- 7	New England Patriots 1984 (9-7)
Baltimore Ravens 2002 (7-9)		17-21	Detroit Lions 2001 (2-14)
New England Patriots 2002 (9-7)		21-14	Pittsburgh Steelers 2003 (6-10)
Arizona Cardinals 1994 (8-8)		17- 3	New Orleans Saints 1968 (4-9-1)
Washington Redskins 1983 (14-2, C)	54-13	Pittsburgh Steelers 1967 (4-9-1)
Washington Redskins 1979 (10-6)		 6-27	Philadelphia Eagles 2001 (11-5, D)
Miami Dolphins 1985 (12-4, D)		27-33	Dallas Cowboys 1997 (6-10)
San Francisco 49ers 1987 (13-2, D)	39-21	New England Patriots 1999 (8-8)
Green Bay Packers 1960 (8-4, C)		28-19	New York Jets 1996 (1-15)
New Orleans Saints 1989 (9-7)		23-14	New York Giants 1992 (6-10)
Los Angeles Rams 1976 (10-3-1, D)	27-38	San Diego Chargers 2002 (8-8)
San Diego Chargers 1993 (8-8)		 3-31	San Francisco 49ers 1998 (12-4, WC)

Overall, not to many upsets as the better teams typically won.

Headliner: 1972 Washington at 2003 Carolina
*The Panthers may be a solid favorite in the series, but the Redskins are going to play them hard. They put up a touchdown in the first, while the Panthers only managed a field goal. But, the second quarter was all Carolina as they sandwiched a Redskin field goal with two touchdowns to build a 17-10 halftime advantage. In the third, the Panthers expanded their lead with the quarter's only score, a touchdown. The Redskins drew close with a touchdown in early in the fourth, but Carolina added an insurace score to claim victory in game one, 31-17.

Upsets in game one:
*1997 Atlanta 21, 1981 Detroit 7 (Detroit -3)
*2001 Detroit 21, 2002 Baltimore 17 (Baltimore -1)

Matchup nobody wants tickets to see:
*1986 Detroit 16, 1979 San Francisco 14 (Detroit leads series 1-0)

Wolfpack · 06-18-2004, 12:57 PM

Game twos:

Code:

Pittsburgh Steelers 1980 (9-7)		 7-26	Green Bay Packers 2002 (12-4, D)
Buffalo Bills 1985 (2-14)		14-20*	Seattle Seahawks 2000 (6-10)
Chicago Bears 1976 (7-7)		 0-27	Kansas City Chiefs 1997 (13-3, D)
St. Louis Rams 2000 (10-6, WC)		45-31	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1994 (6-10)
New England Patriots 1996 (11-5, C)	41-27	Cincinnati Bengals 1979 (4-12)
New York Jets 1999 (8-8)		17-14	Green Bay Packers 2001 (12-4, D)
Detroit Lions 1981 (8-8)		27-21	Atlanta Falcons 1997 (7-9)
Chicago Bears 1962 (9-5)		27-16	Detroit Lions 1970 (10-4, WC)
Detroit Lions 1986 (5-11)		24-13	San Francisco 49ers 1979 (2-14)
Detroit Lions 1974 (7-7)		 9-13	Indianapolis Colts 2002 (10-6, WC)
Detroit Lions 2003 (5-11)		31-34*	Atlanta Falcons 2003 (5-11)
Atlanta Falcons 1998 (14-2, C)		31-28	New England Patriots 1993 (5-11)
San Francisco 49ers 1993 (10-6)		27-14	St. Louis Cardinals 1961 (7-7)
New Orleans Saints 1974 (5-9)		 6-36	Dallas Cowboys 1981 (12-4, D)
New York Jets 1984 (7-9)		23-17	Washington Redskins 1986 (12-4, WC)
Carolina Panthers 2003 (11-5, C)	20-19	Washington Redskins 1972 (11-3, C)
Kansas City Chiefs 1967 (9-5)		10-37	Dallas Cowboys 1994 (12-4, D)
New England Patriots 1971 (6-8)		10-27	New York Jets 1990 (6-10)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1989 (5-11)	10-13	Washington Redskins 1976 (10-4, WC)
Dallas Cowboys 1999 (8-8)		40- 6	Los Angeles Rams 1949 (8-2-2, C)
New England Patriots 1984 (9-7)		 7-38	Philadelphia Eagles 1990 (10-6, WC)
Detroit Lions 2001 (2-14)		26-48	Baltimore Ravens 2002 (7-9)
Pittsburgh Steelers 2003 (6-10)		 3-31	New England Patriots 2002 (9-7)
New Orleans Saints 1968 (4-9-1)		 7-20	Arizona Cardinals 1994 (8-8)
Pittsburgh Steelers 1967 (4-9-1)	27-62	Washington Redskins 1983 (14-2, C)
Philadelphia Eagles 2001 (11-5, D)	13- 0	Washington Redskins 1979 (10-6)
Dallas Cowboys 1997 (6-10)		27- 9	Miami Dolphins 1985 (12-4, D)
New England Patriots 1999 (8-8)		35-31	San Francisco 49ers 1987 (13-2, D)
New York Jets 1996 (1-15)		13-23	Green Bay Packers 1960 (8-4, C)
New York Giants 1992 (6-10)		17-27	New Orleans Saints 1989 (9-7)
San Diego Chargers 2002 (8-8)		10- 7	Los Angeles Rams 1976 (10-3-1, D)
San Francisco 49ers 1998 (12-4, WC)	 7-17	San Diego Chargers 1993 (8-8)

*-in OT
Series winners bolded

As expected, it was generally sweeps all around, with only a handful going to a third game.

Headliner: 2003 Carolina at 1972 Washington
*One that won't be going to a third game is this one. Again, though, the Redskins don't make it easy. Carolina took the early 7-0 lead with a touchdown in the first quarter, then added a field goal. Washington then scored 10 straight points, the last on a field goal at the end of the half to tie things up at 10. Washington then took the lead in the third with a field goal, the only points of the quarter. In the fourth, the Redskins booted a pair of field goals around a lone Carolina field goal to expand their lead to 19-13 late. Carolina made one last drive, and as they did throughout 2003, came up with the big plays when they needed it. This time, they get the win on the strength of a 19-yard touchdown run on a gutsy draw play. The Redskins didn't have enough time to get the ball back down field and the Panthers take the game 20-19 and the series 2-0.

Upset updates:
*1981 Detroit 27, 1997 Atlanta 21 (series tied 1-1)
*2002 Baltimore 48, 2001 Detroit 26 (series tied 1-1)

Upsets in game two:
*1999 New York Jets 17, 2001 Green Bay 14 (Green Bay -9)
*1981 Detroit 27, 1997 Atlanta 21 (Atlanta -5)
*1962 Chicago 27, 1970 Detroit 16 (Detroit -13)
*1984 New York Jets 23, 1986 Washington 17 (Washington -13)
*1997 Dallas 27, 1985 Miami 9 (Miami -6)
*1999 New England 35, 1987 San Francisco 31 (San Francisco -9)
*2002 San Diego 10, 1976 LA Rams 7 (Rams -4)
*1993 San Diego 17, 1998 San Francisco 7 (San Francisco -3)

Matchup nobody wants tickets to see:
*1986 Detroit 24, 1979 San Francisco 13 (Detroit wins series 2-0)

Wolfpack · 06-18-2004, 01:11 PM

Game threes are played:

Code:

Green Bay Packers 2001 (12-4, D)	24- 6	New York Jets 1999 (8-8)
Atlanta Falcons 1997 (7-9)		24-41	Detroit Lions 1981 (8-8)
Detroit Lions 1970 (10-4, WC)		24-25	Chicago Bears 1962 (9-5)
Atlanta Falcons 2003 (5-11)		 0-17	Detroit Lions 2003 (5-11)
Washington Redskins 1986 (12-4, WC)	 6-20 	New York Jets 1984 (7-9)
Baltimore Ravens 2002 (7-9)		31-12	Detroit Lions 2001 (2-14)
San Francisco 49ers 1987 (13-2, D)	14-23	New England Patriots 1999 (8-8)
San Diego Chargers 1993 (8-8)		27-30	San Francisco 49ers 1998 (12-4, WC)

A small number of games, but a number of surprises.

Upsets in game three:
*1981 Detroit 41, 1997 Atlanta 24 (Atlanta -1)
*1962 Chicago 25, 1970 Detroit 24 (Detroit -9)
*1984 NY Jets 20, 1986 Washington 6 (Washington -9)
*1999 New England 23, 1987 San Francisco 14 (San Francisco -5)

I'll post the list of the 128 teams that have advanced next.

Wolfpack · 06-18-2004, 01:15 PM

The 128 survivors thus far:

Arizona Cardinals 1994
Arizona Cardinals 1998
Arizona Cardinals 1999
Atlanta Falcons 1998
Atlanta Falcons 2001
Baltimore Colts 1964
Baltimore Colts 1968
Baltimore Ravens 2001
Baltimore Ravens 2002
Buffalo Bills 1996
Buffalo Bills 1998
Carolina Panthers 2000
Carolina Panthers 2003
Chicago Bears 1962
Chicago Bears 1986
Chicago Bears 1988
Chicago Bears 2001
Cincinnati Bengals 2000
Cleveland Browns 2003
Dallas Cowboys 1981
Dallas Cowboys 1994
Dallas Cowboys 1997
Dallas Cowboys 1999
Dallas Cowboys 2003
Denver Broncos 1984
Denver Broncos 1991
Denver Broncos 1999
Detroit Lions 1980
Detroit Lions 1981
Detroit Lions 1986
Detroit Lions 2003
Green Bay Packers 1960
Green Bay Packers 1963
Green Bay Packers 1997
Green Bay Packers 1999
Green Bay Packers 2001
Green Bay Packers 2002
Green Bay Packers 2003
Houston Oilers 1976
Houston Oilers 1988
Houston Oilers 1993
Houston Oilers 1996
Indianapolis Colts 2002
Indianapolis Colts 2003
Jacksonville Jaguars 1997
Jacksonville Jaguars 1999
Jacksonville Jaguars 2001
Kansas City Chiefs 1982
Kansas City Chiefs 1990
Kansas City Chiefs 1992
Kansas City Chiefs 1993
Kansas City Chiefs 1994
Kansas City Chiefs 1995
Kansas City Chiefs 1997
Los Angeles Rams 1975
Los Angeles Rams 1977
Los Angeles Rams 1992
Los Angeles Rams 1994
Miami Dolphins 1978
Miami Dolphins 1979
Miami Dolphins 1981
Miami Dolphins 1986
Miami Dolphins 1992
Miami Dolphins 1994
Miami Dolphins 1995
Miami Dolphins 2000
Minnesota Vikings 1964
Minnesota Vikings 1970
Minnesota Vikings 1973
Minnesota Vikings 1989
Minnesota Vikings 1990
Minnesota Vikings 1992
Minnesota Vikings 1993
Minnesota Vikings 1994
Minnesota Vikings 1996
Minnesota Vikings 1998
New England Patriots 1978
New England Patriots 1990
New England Patriots 1996
New England Patriots 1998
New England Patriots 1999
New England Patriots 2002
New Orleans Saints 1984
New Orleans Saints 1987
New Orleans Saints 1988
New Orleans Saints 1989
New Orleans Saints 1992
New Orleans Saints 1993
New York Giants 1972
New York Giants 1985
New York Jets 1984
New York Jets 1990
Oakland Raiders 1995
Oakland Raiders 1999
Oakland Raiders 2000
Philadelphia Eagles 1975
Philadelphia Eagles 1990
Philadelphia Eagles 1992
Philadelphia Eagles 2001
Phoenix Cardinals 1990
Pittsburgh Steelers 1995
Pittsburgh Steelers 2000
San Diego Chargers 1986
San Diego Chargers 1991
San Diego Chargers 1994
San Diego Chargers 1995
San Diego Chargers 2002
San Francisco 49ers 1993
San Francisco 49ers 1995
San Francisco 49ers 1996
San Francisco 49ers 1998
San Francisco 49ers 1999
Seattle Seahawks 1985
Seattle Seahawks 1986
Seattle Seahawks 1997
Seattle Seahawks 1998
Seattle Seahawks 2000
St. Louis Cardinals 1970
St. Louis Rams 2000
St. Louis Rams 2002
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1980
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2003
Washington Redskins 1976
Washington Redskins 1981
Washington Redskins 1983
Washington Redskins 1992
Washington Redskins 2000
Washington Redskins 2003

JeeberD · 06-18-2004, 04:34 PM

Woot! Dallas sweeps all around!!!

sachmo71 · 06-28-2004, 08:27 AM

Wolfpack · 06-28-2004, 10:18 AM

I see your bump and raise you a busy work schedule.

Seriously, I've had my downtime at work go, well, down quite a bit over the last couple of weeks, so I haven't been able to get into this like I want. I should also note that I will be heading out of town Thursday and won't be back until the 12th. I'm pondering whether I should pop the game on a zip disk and take it with me and perhaps post a couple of times from my parents' house in NC since we'll be there most of next week.

At any rate, I'll try to see if I can get this round done before I leave, but I've still got a lot to get through before then, so it may not be until I get back that the round gets completely done.

So, that's where things are at the moment.

Wolfpack · 07-20-2004, 03:52 PM

Onward with the tournament after a long hiatus (still busy at work, but don't want people to think I'll never get this done). Group five pairings:

Code:

New England Patriots 1988 (9-7)		vs.	Seattle Seahawks 2001 (9-7)
Buffalo Bills 1992 (11-5, C)		vs.	Atlanta Falcons 1980 (12-4, D)
Houston Oilers 1980 (11-5, WC)		vs.	Cleveland Browns 1968 (10-4, D)
Cleveland Browns 1969 (10-3-1, D)	vs.	Dallas Cowboys 1973 (10-4, D)
Los Angeles Rams 1983 (9-7, WC)		vs.	Phoenix Cardinals 1993 (7-9)
Los Angeles Rams 1985 (11-5, D)		vs.	Denver Broncos 2001 (8-8)
Arizona Cardinals 1995 (4-12)		vs.	New England Patriots 1987 (8-7)
New Orleans Saints 1998	(6-10)		vs.	Green Bay Packers 1951 (3-9)
Indianapolis Colts 1995 (9-7, WC)	vs.	Green Bay Packers 1993 (9-7, WC)
St. Louis Cardinals 1974 (10-4, D)	vs.	Cleveland Browns 1982 (4-5, P)
Washington Redskins 1996 (9-7)		vs.	Minnesota Vikings 1972 (7-7)
Minnesota Vikings 2001 (5-11)		vs.	Baltimore Colts 1971 (10-4, WC)
Indianapolis Colts 1996 (9-7, WC)	vs.	Kansas City Chiefs 1974 (5-9)
Denver Broncos 1974 (7-6-1)		vs.	Los Angeles Raiders 1982 (8-1, P)
Chicago Bears 1956 (9-2-1, C)		vs.	Detroit Lions 1996 (5-11)
Green Bay Packers 1980 (5-10-1)		vs.	Philadelphia Eagles 1982 (3-6)
Minnesota Vikings 1975 (12-2, D)	vs.	Cincinnati Bengals 1990 (9-7, WC)
Buffalo Bills 1988 (12-4, D)		vs.	Miami Dolphins 1991 (8-8)
New York Jets 2000 (9-7)		vs.	Chicago Cardinals 1946 (6-5)
Chicago Bears 1994 (9-7, WC)		vs.	San Francisco 49ers 2003 (7-9)
Oakland Raiders 1977 (11-3, WC)		vs.	Minnesota Vikings 1963 (5-8-1)
Atlanta Falcons 1995 (9-7, WC)		vs.	Minnesota Vikings 1969 (12-2, NFL-L)
Denver Broncos 2000 (11-5, WC)		vs.	St. Louis Cardinals 1976 (10-4)
San Francisco 49ers 1972 (8-5-1, D)	vs.	Denver Broncos 1978 (10-6, D)
Tennessee Oilers 1998 (8-8)		vs.	New England Patriots 1977 (9-5)
Cleveland Browns 1957 (9-2-1, C)	vs.	New York Giants 1997 (10-5-1, D)
Washington Redskins 1984 (11-5, D)	vs.	St. Louis Rams 2001 (14-2, C)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1997 (10-6, WC)	vs.	Cleveland Browns 2002 (9-7, WC)
Philadelphia Eagles 1991 (10-6)		vs.	Denver Broncos 1996 (13-3, D)
Minnesota Vikings 1974 (10-4, C)	vs.	Philadelphia Eagles 2002 (12-4, D)
Philadelphia Eagles 1988 (10-6, D)	vs.	Buffalo Bills 1976 (2-12)
Oakland Raiders 2002 (11-5, C)		vs.	New Orleans Saints 1979 (8-8)
Oakland Raiders 1973 (9-4-1, D)		vs.	Los Angeles Rams 1967 (11-1-2, D)
Green Bay Packers 1995 (11-5, D)	vs.	Minnesota Vikings 1986 (9-7)
Cincinnati Bengals 1994	(3-13)		vs.	Washington Redskins 1952 (4-8)
Tennessee Titans 2003 (12-4, WC)	vs.	Cleveland Browns 1977 (6-8)
Cincinnati Bengals 1995	(7-9)		vs.	Atlanta Falcons 1977 (7-7)
San Francisco 49ers 1983 (10-6, D)	vs.	Dallas Cowboys 1996 (10-6, D)
Miami Dolphins 2001 (11-5, WC)		vs.	New Orleans Saints 1991 (11-5, D)
New York Jets 1993 (8-8)		vs.	Denver Broncos 1977 (12-2, C)
New York Giants 1970 (9-5)		vs.	Los Angeles Raiders 1985 (12-4, D)
Miami Dolphins 1990 (12-4, WC)		vs.	San Diego Chargers 1978 (9-7)
Buffalo Bills 1983 (8-8)		vs.	Cleveland Browns 1981 (5-11)
New York Giants 1960 (6-4-2)		vs.	Washington Redskins 1956 (6-6)
Pittsburgh Steelers 1962 (9-5)		vs.	Cincinnati Bengals 1973 (10-4, D)
Jacksonville Jaguars 1998 (11-5, D)	vs.	Washington Redskins 1964 (6-8)
New England Patriots 1994 (10-6, WC)	vs.	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1981 (9-7, D)
Atlanta Falcons 1972 (7-7)		vs.	New Orleans Saints 2000 (10-6, D)
Houston Oilers 1987 (9-6, WC)		vs.	Kansas City Chiefs 1984 (8-8)
St. Louis Rams 1995 (7-9)		vs.	Jacksonville Jaguars 1996 (9-7, WC)
Arizona Cardinals 1997 (4-12) 		vs.	Atlanta Falcons 1983 (7-9)
San Francisco 49ers 1954 (7-4-1)	vs.	Indianapolis Colts 2001 (6-10)
Cincinnati Bengals 1997	(7-9)		vs.	Oakland Raiders 1968 (12-2, AFL-D)
Dallas Cowboys 1972 (10-4, WC)		vs.	New Orleans Saints 2001 (7-9)
Kansas City Chiefs 1981	(9-7)		vs.	Los Angeles Raiders 1991 (9-7, WC)
Indianapolis Colts 1990	(7-9)		vs.	Washington Redskins 2001 (8-8)
Baltimore Ravens 1996 (4-12)		vs.	Seattle Seahawks 1999 (9-7, D)
Chicago Bears 1995 (9-7)		vs.	Philadelphia Eagles 1981 (10-6, WC)
Pittsburgh Steelers 2002 (10-5-1, D)	vs.	Minnesota Vikings 1983 (8-8)
Cincinnati Bengals 1986	(10-6)		vs.	San Francisco 49ers 1977 (5-9)
Los Angeles Raiders 1989 (8-8)		vs.	Carolina Panthers 1997 (7-9)
Dallas Cowboys 1987 (7-8)		vs.	Indianapolis Colts 1999 (13-3, D)
Washington Redskins 1985 (10-6)		vs.	St. Louis Cardinals 1968 (9-4-1)
Kansas City Chiefs 2003	(13-3, D)	vs.	Tennessee Titans 2002 (11-5, D)

Playoff pairings out the wazoo in this group.

Headliner: 2003 Kansas City vs. 2002 Tennessee
This was the pairing that jumped out at me initially. KC started out 9-0 behind an explosive offense and an even more explosive special teams. They managed the AFC's best record at 13-3, but squandered in in a home loss to Indianapolis in the divisional round of the playoffs. Tennessee went the opposite way. They started out 1-4 and were given up for dead before winning ten of their last 11, a loss to Baltimore in late November being the only blemish. They ousted Pittsburgh to reach the AFC title game, but were bounced by the Raiders 41-24.

Other games involving playoff teams:
*1992 Buffalo (AFC champs) vs. 1980 Atlanta (NFC West champs)
*1980 Houston Oilers (AFC wild card) vs. 1968 Cleveland (NFL Century champs)
*1969 Cleveland (NFL Century champs) vs. 1973 Dallas (NFC East champs)
*1995 Indianapolis (AFC wild card) vs. 1993 Green Bay (NFC wild card)
*1974 St. Louis Cardinals (NFC East champs) vs. 1982 Cleveland (AFC playoff team)
*1975 Minnesota (NFC Central champs) vs. 1990 Cincinnati (AFC wild card)
*1995 Atlanta (NFC wild card) vs. 1969 Minnesota (NFL champs, lost to KC in Super Bowl IV)
*1972 San Francisco (NFC West champs) vs. 1978 Denver (AFC West champs)
*1957 Cleveland (NFL West champs) vs. 1997 New York Giants (NFC East champs)
*1984 Washington (NFC East champs) vs. 2001 St. Louis Rams (NFC champs)
*1997 Tampa Bay (NFC wild card) vs. 2002 Cleveland (AFC wild card)
*1974 Minnesota (NFC champs) vs. 2002 Philadelphia (NFC East champs)
*1973 Oakland (AFC West champs) vs. 1967 Los Angeles Rams (NFL Coastal champs)
*1983 San Francisco (NFC West champs) vs. 1996 Dallas (NFC East champs)
*2001 Miami (AFC wild card) vs. 1991 New Orleans (NFC West champs)
*1994 New England (AFC wild card) vs. 1981 Tampa Bay (NFC Central champs)

Matchup nobody wants tickets to see: 1994 Cincinnati vs. 1952 Washington
*A pair of pretty bad teams go at it in this one. The Bengals were a bad 3-13, but that was still good enough for third in the AFC Central ahead of the 2-14 Oilers (the Browns and Steelers had 12 and 11 wins, respectively, at the polar opposite end of the division standings). The Redskins tied the Chicago Cardinals for last in the NFL East in 1952 at 4-8. Their combined wins (7) is less than 29 other teams individually in the group. A bit low as there are a rash of teams in this group with 7 wins, mainly due to fewer games being played in older seasons.

sterlingice · 07-20-2004, 03:54 PM

Woohoo!

SI

JeeberD · 07-20-2004, 04:06 PM

Excellent, glad to see this back.

Go Cowboys!!!!

Wolfpack · 07-22-2004, 09:59 AM

I just realized I goofed in the number of pairings. This group has 64 pairings rather than 32. To save myself the annoyance of having to re-do the schedule sheet above, I'll stick to 64 pairings for this group. I will compensate by shortening the next two groups to 16 pairings each and then return to 32 for the final group, which will have all the champions in it (though a couple will be in the next to last group as there are more than 32 champions left).

Wolfpack · 07-22-2004, 10:43 AM

Game one results:

Code:

New England Patriots 1988 (9-7)		18-14	Seattle Seahawks 2001 (9-7)
Buffalo Bills 1992 (11-5, C)		 7-30	Atlanta Falcons 1980 (12-4, D)
Houston Oilers 1980 (11-5, WC)		23-35	Cleveland Browns 1968 (10-4, D)
Cleveland Browns 1969 (10-3-1, D)	14-50	Dallas Cowboys 1973 (10-4, D)
Los Angeles Rams 1983 (9-7, WC)		20-55	Phoenix Cardinals 1993 (7-9)
Los Angeles Rams 1985 (11-5, D)		20-14	Denver Broncos 2001 (8-8)
Arizona Cardinals 1995 (4-12)		14-23	New England Patriots 1987 (8-7)
New Orleans Saints 1998	(6-10)		36-10	Green Bay Packers 1951 (3-9)
Indianapolis Colts 1995 (9-7, WC)	19-20	Green Bay Packers 1993 (9-7, WC)
St. Louis Cardinals 1974 (10-4, D)	 7-17	Cleveland Browns 1982 (4-5, P)
Washington Redskins 1996 (9-7)		20-29	Minnesota Vikings 1972 (7-7)
Minnesota Vikings 2001 (5-11)		13-26	Baltimore Colts 1971 (10-4, WC)
Indianapolis Colts 1996 (9-7, WC)	37-23	Kansas City Chiefs 1974 (5-9)
Denver Broncos 1974 (7-6-1)		17-20	Los Angeles Raiders 1982 (8-1, P)
Chicago Bears 1956 (9-2-1, C)		24-36	Detroit Lions 1996 (5-11)
Green Bay Packers 1980 (5-10-1)		10-30	Philadelphia Eagles 1982 (3-6)
Minnesota Vikings 1975 (12-2, D)	34-16	Cincinnati Bengals 1990 (9-7, WC)
Buffalo Bills 1988 (12-4, D)		17- 7	Miami Dolphins 1991 (8-8)
New York Jets 2000 (9-7)		31- 6	Chicago Cardinals 1946 (6-5)
Chicago Bears 1994 (9-7, WC)		14-30	San Francisco 49ers 2003 (7-9)
Oakland Raiders 1977 (11-3, WC)		37-21	Minnesota Vikings 1963 (5-8-1)
Atlanta Falcons 1995 (9-7, WC)		13-35	Minnesota Vikings 1969 (12-2, NFL-L)
Denver Broncos 2000 (11-5, WC)		41-10	St. Louis Cardinals 1976 (10-4)
San Francisco 49ers 1972 (8-5-1, D)	22-34	Denver Broncos 1978 (10-6, D)
Tennessee Oilers 1998 (8-8)		15-14	New England Patriots 1977 (9-5)
Cleveland Browns 1957 (9-2-1, C)	10-12	New York Giants 1997 (10-5-1, D)
Washington Redskins 1984 (11-5, D)	27-19	St. Louis Rams 2001 (14-2, C)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1997 (10-6, WC)	 0-30	Cleveland Browns 2002 (9-7, WC)
Philadelphia Eagles 1991 (10-6)		 7-23	Denver Broncos 1996 (13-3, D)
Minnesota Vikings 1974 (10-4, C)	 0-36	Philadelphia Eagles 2002 (12-4, D)
Philadelphia Eagles 1988 (10-6, D)	23-21	Buffalo Bills 1976 (2-12)
Oakland Raiders 2002 (11-5, C)		31-24	New Orleans Saints 1979 (8-8)
Oakland Raiders 1973 (9-4-1, D)		26-24	Los Angeles Rams 1967 (11-1-2, D)
Green Bay Packers 1995 (11-5, D)	27-44	Minnesota Vikings 1986 (9-7)
Cincinnati Bengals 1994	(3-13)		35- 7	Washington Redskins 1952 (4-8)
Tennessee Titans 2003 (12-4, WC)	41- 7	Cleveland Browns 1977 (6-8)
Cincinnati Bengals 1995	(7-9)		17-14	Atlanta Falcons 1977 (7-7)
San Francisco 49ers 1983 (10-6, D)	15-24	Dallas Cowboys 1996 (10-6, D)
Miami Dolphins 2001 (11-5, WC)		15-26	New Orleans Saints 1991 (11-5, D)
New York Jets 1993 (8-8)		10-24	Denver Broncos 1977 (12-2, C)
New York Giants 1970 (9-5)		13-21	Los Angeles Raiders 1985 (12-4, D)
Miami Dolphins 1990 (12-4, WC)		13-12	San Diego Chargers 1978 (9-7)
Buffalo Bills 1983 (8-8)		20-17*	Cleveland Browns 1981 (5-11)
New York Giants 1960 (6-4-2)		23- 7	Washington Redskins 1956 (6-6)
Pittsburgh Steelers 1962 (9-5)		13-36	Cincinnati Bengals 1973 (10-4, D)
Jacksonville Jaguars 1998 (11-5, D)	20-0	Washington Redskins 1964 (6-8)
New England Patriots 1994 (10-6, WC)	20-17	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1981 (9-7, D)
Atlanta Falcons 1972 (7-7)		 7-27	New Orleans Saints 2000 (10-6, D)
Houston Oilers 1987 (9-6, WC)		 7-10	Kansas City Chiefs 1984 (8-8)
St. Louis Rams 1995 (7-9)		24-35	Jacksonville Jaguars 1996 (9-7, WC)
Arizona Cardinals 1997 (4-12) 		24- 9	Atlanta Falcons 1983 (7-9)
San Francisco 49ers 1954 (7-4-1)	44-31	Indianapolis Colts 2001 (6-10)
Cincinnati Bengals 1997	(7-9)		23-24	Oakland Raiders 1968 (12-2, AFL-D)
Dallas Cowboys 1972 (10-4, WC)		14-24	New Orleans Saints 2001 (7-9)
Kansas City Chiefs 1981	(9-7)		10-19	Los Angeles Raiders 1991 (9-7, WC)
Indianapolis Colts 1990	(7-9)		 0-24	Washington Redskins 2001 (8-8)
Baltimore Ravens 1996 (4-12)		20-21	Seattle Seahawks 1999 (9-7, D)
Chicago Bears 1995 (9-7)		24-20	Philadelphia Eagles 1981 (10-6, WC)
Pittsburgh Steelers 2002 (10-5-1, D)	41-20	Minnesota Vikings 1983 (8-8)
Cincinnati Bengals 1986	(10-6)		28-31*	San Francisco 49ers 1977 (5-9)
Los Angeles Raiders 1989 (8-8)		14-28	Carolina Panthers 1997 (7-9)
Dallas Cowboys 1987 (7-8)		14-55	Indianapolis Colts 1999 (13-3, D)
Washington Redskins 1985 (10-6)		31- 9	St. Louis Cardinals 1968 (9-4-1)
Kansas City Chiefs 2003	(13-3, D)	22-20	Tennessee Titans 2002 (11-5, D)

Headliner: 2003 Kansas City at 2002 Tennessee
*The series gets off to a rousing start in a game settled by field goal kickers. Tennessee's offense didn't show up for the first half, leaving the defense to have to keep the Chiefs in check, which they manage to do, but not by much. KC gets a field goal in the first and a pair of them in the second and go to halftime with a 9-0 lead. KC would add a field goal in the third, but the Titans finally battled their way into the end zone to get on the board. They still trailed 12-7 going to the fourth. The fourth was a tense affair as the Titans briefly took a 14-12 lead, but the Chiefs responded with a touchdown to retake the lead. The Titans then booted a field goal to make it 19-17. The Titans took a serious risk with just under two minutes remaining, going for a field goal from the Chief 42. Fortunately for them, the kicker was up to it and nailed a 59-yard attempt to send the crowd in Nashville into a frenzy as Tennesee took the lead at 20-19. However, they may have left too much time on the clock. The Chiefs worked to midfield, and then got to the Titan 40, where they trotted on their aging Hall of Fame kicker for one last attempt, a 57-yarder. Snap, hold...it's up...is it long enough? It is! It's good! Just over the crossbar with the wind at his back! The Chiefs win game one, 22-20!

Other playoff team matchups
*1980 Atlanta 30, 1992 Buffalo 7 (Atlanta leads series 1-0)
*1968 Cleveland 35, 1980 Houston 23 (Cleveland leads series 1-0)
*1973 Dallas 50, 1969 Cleveland 14 (Dallas leads series 1-0)
*1993 Green Bay 20, 1995 Indianapolis 19 (Green Bay leads series 1-0)
*1982 Cleveland 17, 1974 St. Louis 7 (Cleveland leads series 1-0)
*1975 Minnesota 34, 1990 Cincinnati 16 (Minnesota leads series 1-0)
*1969 Minnesota 35, 1995 Atlanta 13 (Minnesota leads series 1-0)
*1978 Denver 34, 1972 San Francisco 22 (Denver leads series 1-0)
*1997 New York Giants 12, 1957 Cleveland 10 (Giants leads series 1-0)
*1984 Washington 27, 2001 St. Louis 19 (Washington leads series 1-0)
*2002 Cleveland 30, 1997 Tampa Bay 0 (Cleveland leads series 1-0)
*2002 Philadelphia 36, 1974 Minnesota 0 (Philadelphia leads series 1-0)
*1973 Oakland 26, 1967 Los Angeles Rams 24 (Oakland leads series 1-0)
*1996 Dallas 24, 1983 San Francisco 15 (Dallas leads series 1-0)
*1991 New Orleans 26, 2001 Miami 15 (New Orleans leads series 1-0)
*1994 New England 20, 1981 Tampa Bay 17 (New England leads series 1-0)

Upsets in game one
*1988 New England 18, 2001 Seattle 14 (Seattle -10)
*1985 Los Angeles Rams 20, 2001 Denver 14 (Denver -7)
*1982 Cleveland 17, 1974 St. Louis 7 (St. Louis -1)
*1972 Minnesota 29, 1996 Washington 20 (Washington -5)
*1984 Washington 27, 2001 St. Louis Rams 19 (Rams -18)
*1973 Oakland 26, 1967 Los Angeles Rams 24 (Rams -9)
*1995 Cincinnati 17, 1977 Atlanta 14 (Atlanta -1)
*1983 Buffalo 20, 1981 Cleveland 17 (OT) (Cleveland -4)
*1954 San Francisco 44, 2001 Indianapolis 31 (Indianapolis -13)
*1995 Chicago 24, 1981 Philadelphia 20 (Philadelphia -4)
*1977 San Francisco 31, 1986 Cincinnati 28 (OT) (Cincinnati -3)

Matchup nobody wants tickets to see: 1994 Cincinnati at 1952 Washington
*1994 Cincinnati 35, 1952 Washington 7 (Cincinnati leads series 1-0)

JeeberD · 07-22-2004, 10:57 AM

As long as we beat the Niners I'll be happy with this bracket...

Vince · 07-22-2004, 12:04 PM

Bummed to see some of our better teams getting bumped...still holding out hope for that '84 team though.

Wolfpack · 07-22-2004, 01:16 PM

Game two scores:

Code:

Seattle Seahawks 2001 (9-7)		20- 6	New England Patriots 1988 (9-7)
Atlanta Falcons 1980 (12-4, D)		28-15	Buffalo Bills 1992 (11-5, C)
Cleveland Browns 1968 (10-4, D)		26-18	Houston Oilers 1980 (11-5, WC)
Dallas Cowboys 1973 (10-4, D)		27-13	Cleveland Browns 1969 (10-3-1, D)
Phoenix Cardinals 1993 (7-9)		34-38	Los Angeles Rams 1983 (9-7, WC)
Denver Broncos 2001 (8-8)		26-24	Los Angeles Rams 1985 (11-5, D)
New England Patriots 1987 (8-7)		10-31	Arizona Cardinals 1995 (4-12)
Green Bay Packers 1951 (3-9)		 7-22	New Orleans Saints 1998 (6-10)
Green Bay Packers 1993 (9-7, WC)	13-19*	Indianapolis Colts 1995 (9-7, WC)
Cleveland Browns 1982 (4-5, P)		14-24	St. Louis Cardinals 1974 (10-4, D)
Minnesota Vikings 1972 (7-7)		10-37	Washington Redskins 1996 (9-7)
Baltimore Colts 1971 (10-4, WC)		23-26	Minnesota Vikings 2001 (5-11)
Kansas City Chiefs 1974 (5-9)		20-40	Indianapolis Colts 1996 (9-7, WC)
Los Angeles Raiders 1982 (8-1, P)	44-38	Denver Broncos 1974 (7-6-1)
Detroit Lions 1996 (5-11)		24-27*	Chicago Bears 1956 (9-2-1, C)
Philadelphia Eagles 1982 (3-6)		14-31	Green Bay Packers 1980 (5-10-1)
Cincinnati Bengals 1990 (9-7, WC)	31-21	Minnesota Vikings 1975 (12-2, D)
Miami Dolphins 1991 (8-8)		14-24	Buffalo Bills 1988 (12-4, D)
Chicago Cardinals 1946 (6-5)		 0-41	New York Jets 2000 (9-7)
San Francisco 49ers 2003 (7-9)		27-30	Chicago Bears 1994 (9-7, WC)
Minnesota Vikings 1963 (5-8-1)		14-53	Oakland Raiders 1977 (11-3, WC)
Minnesota Vikings 1969 (12-2, NFL-L)	21-22	Atlanta Falcons 1995 (9-7, WC)
St. Louis Cardinals 1976 (10-4)		 7-24	Denver Broncos 2000 (11-5, WC)
Denver Broncos 1978 (10-6, D)		14-31	San Francisco 49ers 1972 (8-5-1, D)
New England Patriots 1977 (9-5)		16-35	Tennessee Oilers 1998 (8-8)
New York Giants 1997 (10-5-1, D)	14-17*	Cleveland Browns 1957 (9-2-1, C)
St. Louis Rams 2001 (14-2, C)		27-24	Washington Redskins 1984 (11-5, D)
Cleveland Browns 2002 (9-7, WC)		21- 7	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1997 (10-6, WC)
Denver Broncos 1996 (13-3, D)		17-20	Philadelphia Eagles 1991 (10-6)
Philadelphia Eagles 2002 (12-4, D)	48-21	Minnesota Vikings 1974 (10-4, C)
Buffalo Bills 1976 (2-12)		15-26	Philadelphia Eagles 1988 (10-6, D)
New Orleans Saints 1979 (8-8)		 9-28	Oakland Raiders 2002 (11-5, C)
Los Angeles Rams 1967 (11-1-2, D)	24-30*	Oakland Raiders 1973 (9-4-1, D)
Minnesota Vikings 1986 (9-7)		16-24	Green Bay Packers 1995 (11-5, D)
Washington Redskins 1952 (4-8)		20-30	Cincinnati Bengals 1994 (3-13)
Cleveland Browns 1977 (6-8)		14-26	Tennessee Titans 2003 (12-4, WC)
Atlanta Falcons 1977 (7-7)		 9-21	Cincinnati Bengals 1995 (7-9)
Dallas Cowboys 1996 (10-6, D)		21- 3	San Francisco 49ers 1983 (10-6, D)
New Orleans Saints 1991 (11-5, D)	14-20*	Miami Dolphins 2001 (11-5, WC)
Denver Broncos 1977 (12-2, C)		17- 3	New York Jets 1993 (8-8)
Los Angeles Raiders 1985 (12-4, D)	27-21	New York Giants 1970 (9-5)
San Diego Chargers 1978 (9-7)		20-29	Miami Dolphins 1990 (12-4, WC)
Cleveland Browns 1981 (5-11)		14-19	Buffalo Bills 1983 (8-8)
Washington Redskins 1956 (6-6)		14-30	New York Giants 1960 (6-4-2)
Cincinnati Bengals 1973 (10-4, D)	38- 7	Pittsburgh Steelers 1962 (9-5)
Washington Redskins 1964 (6-8)		14-30	Jacksonville Jaguars 1998 (11-5, D)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1981 (9-7, D)	14-23	New England Patriots 1994 (10-6, WC)
New Orleans Saints 2000 (10-6, D)	28-14	Atlanta Falcons 1972 (7-7)
Kansas City Chiefs 1984 (8-8)		24-14	Houston Oilers 1987 (9-6, WC)
Jacksonville Jaguars 1996 (9-7, WC)	20-24	St. Louis Rams 1995 (7-9)
Atlanta Falcons 1983 (7-9)		17-27	Arizona Cardinals 1997 (4-12)
Indianapolis Colts 2001 (6-10)		41-38	San Francisco 49ers 1954 (7-4-1)
Oakland Raiders 1968 (12-2, AFL-D)	16-27	Cincinnati Bengals 1997	(7-9)
New Orleans Saints 2001 (7-9)		12-27	Dallas Cowboys 1972 (10-4, WC)
Los Angeles Raiders 1991 (9-7, WC)	16- 7	Kansas City Chiefs 1981	(9-7)
Washington Redskins 2001 (8-8)		17-14	Indianapolis Colts 1990	(7-9)
Seattle Seahawks 1999 (9-7, D)		17-37	Baltimore Ravens 1996 (4-12)
Philadelphia Eagles 1981 (10-6, WC)	24-14	Chicago Bears 1995 (9-7)
Minnesota Vikings 1983 (8-8)		14-38	Pittsburgh Steelers 2002 (10-5-1, D)
San Francisco 49ers 1977 (5-9)		35-19	Cincinnati Bengals 1986	(10-6)
Carolina Panthers 1997 (7-9)		13-31	Los Angeles Raiders 1989 (8-8)
Indianapolis Colts 1999 (13-3, D)	37-31	Dallas Cowboys 1987 (7-8)
St. Louis Cardinals 1968 (9-4-1)	 6-35	Washington Redskins 1985 (10-6)
Tennessee Titans 2002 (11-5, D)		19-27	Kansas City Chiefs 2003 (13-3, D)

A number of series will be going the extra game to be decided and a raft of upsets make things interesting.

Headliner: 2002 Tennessee at 2003 Kansas City
*In the main event, the Chiefs got the offense going early, striking for two first quarter touchdowns, while the Titans could only manage a pair of field goals in exchange, leaving them down 14-6 after the first. The Chiefs and Titans continued at the same exchange rate in the second with one TD to the Chiefs to a field goal for the Titans, making the score 21-9 at half and the Chiefs seemingly cruising into the next round. However, the Titans clawed their way back into it. They finally broke through for a touchdown in the third and then put up a field goal early in the fourth to cut the lead to 21-19. The Chiefs didn't break and netted a pair of field goals to extend the lead back to 27-19. The Titans were unable to mount a serious scoring threat after that and the Chiefs complete the 2-0 sweep with a 27-19 win.

Other playoff team matchups:
*1980 Atlanta 28, 1992 Buffalo 15 (Atlanta wins series 2-0)
*1968 Cleveland 26, 1980 Houston 18 (Cleveland wins series 2-0)
*1973 Dallas 27, 1969 Cleveland 13 (Dallas wins series 2-0)
*1995 Indianapolis 19, 1993 Green Bay 13 (OT) (Series tied 1-1)
*1974 St. Louis Cardinals 24, 1982 Cleveland 14 (Series tied 1-1)
*1990 Cincinnati 31, 1975 Minnesota 21 (Series tied 1-1)
*1995 Atlanta 22, 1969 Minnesota 21 (Series tied 1-1)
*1972 San Francisco 31, 1978 Denver 14 (Series tied 1-1)
*1957 Cleveland 17, 1997 New York Giants 14 (OT) (Series tied 1-1)
*2001 St. Louis Rams 27, 1984 Washington 24 (Series tied 1-1)
*2002 Cleveland 211997 Tampa Bay 7 (Cleveland wins series 2-0)
*2002 Philadelphia 48, 1974 Minnesota 21 (Philadelphia wins series 2-0)
*1973 Oakland 30, 1967 Los Angeles Rams 24 (OT) (Oakland wins series 2-0)
*1996 Dallas 21, 1983 San Francisco 3 (Dallas wins series 2-0)
*2001 Miami 20, 1991 New Orleans 14 (OT) (Series tied 1-1)
*1994 New England 23, 1981 Tampa Bay 14 (New England wins series 2-0)

Upsets in game two:
*1980 Atlanta 28, 1992 Buffalo 15 (Buffalo -4)
*1968 Cleveland 26, 1980 Houston Oilers 18 (Oilers -6)
*1983 Los Angeles Rams 38, 1993 Phoenix Cardinals 34 (Cardinals -2)
*2001 Denver 26, 1985 Los Angeles Rams 24 (Rams -1)
*1995 Arizona Cardinals 31, 1987 New England 10 (New England -3)
*1980 Green Bay 31, 1982 Philadelphia 14 (Philadelphia -7)
*1990 Cincinnati 31, 1975 Minnesota 21 (Minnesota -9)
*1994 Chicago 30, 2003 San Francisco 27 (San Francisco -3)
*1957 Cleveland 17, 1997 New York Giants 14 (OT) (Giants -9)
*2002 Cleveland 21, 1997 Tampa Bay 7 (Tampa Bay -5)
*1991 Philadelphia 20, 1996 Denver 17 (Denver -1)
*1973 Oakland 30, 1967 Los Angeles Rams 24 (OT) (Rams -1)
*1996 Dallas 21, 1983 San Francisco 3 (San Francisco -5)
*1977 Denver 17, 1993 New York Jets 3 (Jets -4)
*1984 Kansas City 24, 1987 Houston Oilers 14 (Oilers -3)
*1995 St. Louis Rams 24, 1996 Jacksonville 14 (Jacksonville -1)
*1991 Los Angeles Raiders 16, 1981 Kansas City 7 (Kansas City -4)
*1996 Baltimore 37, 1999 Seattle 17 (Seattle -4)
*1981 Philadelphia 24, 1995 Chicago 14 (Chicago -4)
*1977 San Francisco 35, 1986 Cincinnati 19 (Cincinnati -11) (SERIES UPSET)

Matchup nobody wants tickets to see: 1952 Washington at 1994 Cincinnati
*1994 Cincinnati 30, 1952 Washington 20 (Cincinnati wins series 2-0)

sterlingice · 07-22-2004, 02:32 PM

Darn. The '80 and '87 Oilers went down but at least the Titans lost in the main event game.

SI

Wolfpack · 07-22-2004, 03:41 PM

Game three scores:

Code:

New England Patriots 1988 (9-7)		21-14	Seattle Seahawks 2001 (9-7)
Los Angeles Rams 1983 (9-7, WC)		10- 0	Phoenix Cardinals 1993 (7-9)
Los Angeles Rams 1985 (11-5, D)		16-37	Denver Broncos 2001 (8-8)
Arizona Cardinals 1995 (4-12)		38-24	New England Patriots 1987 (8-7)
Indianapolis Colts 1995 (9-7, WC)	24-34	Green Bay Packers 1993 (9-7, WC)
St. Louis Cardinals 1974 (10-4, D)	 9-10	Cleveland Browns 1982 (4-5, P)
Washington Redskins 1996 (9-7)		44-21	Minnesota Vikings 1972 (7-7)
Minnesota Vikings 2001 (5-11)		21-14	Baltimore Colts 1971 (10-4, WC)
Chicago Bears 1956 (9-2-1, C)		15- 6	Detroit Lions 1996 (5-11)
Green Bay Packers 1980 (5-10-1)		24-23	Philadelphia Eagles 1982 (3-6)
Minnesota Vikings 1975 (12-2, D)	31-10	Cincinnati Bengals 1990 (9-7, WC)
Chicago Bears 1994 (9-7, WC)		24-21	San Francisco 49ers 2003 (7-9)
Atlanta Falcons 1995 (9-7, WC)		14-30	Minnesota Vikings 1969 (12-2, NFL-L)
San Francisco 49ers 1972 (8-5-1, D)	14-17	Denver Broncos 1978 (10-6, D)
Cleveland Browns 1957 (9-2-1, C)	10-13*	New York Giants 1997 (10-5-1, D)
Washington Redskins 1984 (11-5, D)	 9-37	St. Louis Rams 2001 (14-2, C)
Philadelphia Eagles 1991 (10-6)		21-33	Denver Broncos 1996 (13-3, D)
Green Bay Packers 1995 (11-5, D)	37-31	Minnesota Vikings 1986 (9-7)
Miami Dolphins 2001 (11-5, WC)		14-11	New Orleans Saints 1991 (11-5, D)
St. Louis Rams 1995 (7-9)		20-34	Jacksonville Jaguars 1996 (9-7, WC)
San Francisco 49ers 1954 (7-4-1)	14-41	Indianapolis Colts 2001 (6-10)
Cincinnati Bengals 1997	(7-9)		37-40	Oakland Raiders 1968 (12-2, AFL-D)
Dallas Cowboys 1972 (10-4, WC)		24-21	New Orleans Saints 2001 (7-9)
Baltimore Ravens 1996 (4-12)		16-34	Seattle Seahawks 1999 (9-7, D)
Chicago Bears 1995 (9-7)		17-13	Philadelphia Eagles 1981 (10-6, WC)
Los Angeles Raiders 1989 (8-8)		10-20	Carolina Panthers 1997 (7-9)

Games involving playoff teams:
*1982 Cleveland 10, 1974 St. Louis Cardinals 9 (Cleveland wins series 2-1)
*1975 Minnesota 31, 1990 Cincinnati 10 (Minnesota wins series 2-1)
*1969 Minnesota 30, 1995 Atlanta 14 (Minnesota wins series 2-1)
*1978 Denver 17, 1972 San Francisco 14 (Denver wins series 2-1)
*1997 New York Giants 13, 1957 Cleveland 10 (OT) (Giants win series 2-1)
*2001 St. Louis Rams 37, 1984 Washington 9 (Rams win series 2-1)
*2001 Miami 14, 1991 New Orleans 11 (Miami wins series 2-1)

Upsets in game three:
*1988 New England 21, 2001 Seattle 14 (Seattle -6)
*1983 Los Angeles Rams 10, 1993 Phoenix Cardinals 0 (Cardinals -6)
*1995 Arizona Cardinals 38, 1987 New England 24 (New England -7)
*1982 Cleveland 10, 1974 St. Louis Cardinals 9 (Cardinals -5)
*1956 Chicago 15, 1996 Detroit 6 (Detroit -3)
*1980 Green Bay 24, 1982 Philadelphia 23 (Philadelphia -11)
*1994 Chicago 24, 2003 San Francisco 21 (San Francisco -7)
*2001 Miami 14, 1991 New Orleans 11 (New Orleans -2)
*1968 Oakland 40, 1997 Cincinnati 37 (Cincinnati -1)
*1972 Dallas 24, 2001 New Orleans 21 (New Orleans -4)

Wolfpack · 07-22-2004, 05:44 PM

I just noticed something...which of you suck-ups gave me star ratings? This will not get your favorite teams further in the tournament.

Seriously, thanks.

Vince · 07-23-2004, 05:57 AM

Man...the marginal Niners teams are dropping like flies. Losing the '83 team hurt

Wolfpack · 07-23-2004, 11:10 AM

Remember, I overdid the last group, so these next two groups are reduced to sixteen pairings. Group 6:

Code:

Philadelphia Eagles 1997 (6-9-1)	vs.	Cincinnati Bengals 1985 (7-9)
New York Jets 1988 (8-7-1)		vs.	Minnesota Vikings 1985 (7-9)
New York Jets 1985 (11-5, WC)		vs.	Green Bay Packers 1984 (8-8)
Pittsburgh Steelers 1994 (12-4, D)	vs.	San Diego Chargers 1992 (11-5, D)
Detroit Lions 2000 (9-7)		vs.	Los Angeles Rams 1993 (5-11)
St. Louis Rams 1997 (5-11)		vs.	New Orleans Saints 2002 (9-7)
Atlanta Falcons 1978 (9-7, WC)		vs.	Buffalo Bills 1995 (10-6, D)
Philadelphia Eagles 1970 (3-10-1)	vs.	Miami Dolphins 1975 (10-4)
New York Giants 1995 (5-11)		vs.	Philadelphia Eagles 1989 (11-5, WC)
Detroit Lions 1982 (4-5, P)		vs.	Indianapolis Colts 1994 (8-8)
New York Jets 2002 (9-7, D)		vs.	Detroit Lions 1998 (5-11)
San Francisco 49ers 1968 (7-6-1)	vs.	Carolina Panthers 1995 (7-9)
Minnesota Vikings 1982 (5-4, P)		vs.	Los Angeles Rams 1973 (12-2, D)
Arizona Cardinals 2002 (5-11)		vs.	Minnesota Vikings 1997 (9-7, WC)
Indianapolis Colts 2000	(10-6, WC)	vs.	Detroit Lions 1994 (9-7, WC)
Detroit Lions 1966 (4-9-1)		vs.	Minnesota Vikings 1977 (9-5, D)

Headliner: 1994 Pittsburgh vs. 1992 San Diego
A good solid matchup featuring a pair of division champs. The 1994 Steelers never lost more than one game in a row the entire year. However, they lost twice to San Diego, once in the last game of the season in San Diego and then three weeks later in Pittsburgh when the Chargers upset the Steelers 17-13 to go to the Super Bowl. On the other side, the Chargers sucked it up early, starting 0-4, but finished the season 11-1, the only loss being a 16-14 loss to the Chiefs at Arrowhead in early November. They shut out the Chiefs in wild card round but were shut out in turn by Miami 31-0 in the divisional round.

Other playoff team matchups:
*1978 Atlanta (NFC wild card) vs. 1995 Buffalo (AFC East champs)
*1982 Minnesota (NFC playoff team) vs. 1973 Los Angeles Rams (NFC West champs)
*2000 Indianapolis (AFC wild card) vs. 1994 Detroit (NFC wild card)

Matchup nobody wants tickets to see: 1997 Philadelphia vs. 1985 Cincinnati
*Slim pickings for this award with the smaller group size. Probably a sign of things to come as the field narrows. Neither team was flat-out horrible, but neither team made it to .500, either. In a first for the award, the combined win total of the two teams exceeds the all other teams' individual win counts in the group.

06-14-2004, 12:48 PM	#153
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Results of game threes: Code: Baltimore Ravens 2001 (10-6, WC) 24- 6 Phoenix Cardinals 1992 (4-12) Green Bay Packers 1963 (11-2-1) 38-37 New England Patriots 1989 (5-11) Houston Oilers 1992 (10-6, WC) 14-48 San Francisco 49ers 1995 (11-5, D) New England Patriots 1981 (2-14) 26-29 San Francisco 49ers 1999 (4-12) Baltimore Colts 1964 (12-2,C) 40-23 New England Patriots 1986 (11-5, D) Detroit Lions 1991 (12-4, D) 7-14 Baltimore Colts 1968 (13-1, NFL-L) Philadelphia Eagles 1992 (11-5, WC) 14-10 New York Jets 2001 (10-6, WC) Los Angeles Raiders 1994 (9-7) 14-21 New Orleans Saints 1993 (8-8) New York Giants 1972 (8-6) 23-20* Los Angeles Raiders 1987 (5-10) Houston Oilers 1976 (5-9) 17- 7 New York Jets 1976 (3-11) Minnesota Vikings 1994 (10-6, D) 30-10 Cleveland Browns 1989 (9-6-1, D) Los Angeles Rams 1977 (10-4, D) 23-17 New England Patriots 2000 (5-11) Arizona Cardinals 2001 (7-9) 31-42 Miami Dolphins 1986 (8-8) New Orleans Saints 1984 (7-9) 41-24 Chicago Bears 1967 (7-6-1) Chicago Bears 1939 (8-3) 7-31 Washington Redskins 2003 (5-11) Oakland Raiders 1995 (8-8) 21-20 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1998 (8-8) -in OT Series winners bolded* Headliner: 1991 Detroit vs. 1968 Baltimore Game three played out similarly to game two in this affair, which is to say that it wasn't a blowout. Instead, it was a physical, tight contest that came down to the wire. Both teams scored touchdowns in the first quarter, but that would be it for scoring in the half. In the third, the Colts took the lead with a touchdown and then made it stand the rest of the way. Detroit made a great push at the end, reaching the Baltimore 12 before turning it over on downs. Baltimore wins the game 14-7 and the series 2-1. Other playoff team matchups:* 1995 San Francisco 48, 1992 Houston 14 (San Francisco wins series 2-1) 1964 Baltimore Colts 40, 1986 New England 23 (Baltimore Colts win series 2-1) 1992 Philadelphia 14, 2001 NY Jets 10 (Philadelphia wins series 2-1) 1994 Minnesota 30, 1989 Cleveland 10 (Minnesota wins series 2-1) Upset update (follow-up to big upsets of games one and two): 1995 San Francisco 48, 1992 Houston 14 (San Francisco wins series 2-1) 1972 NY Giants 23, 1987 LA Raiders 20 (OT) (NY Giants win series 2-1) 1976 Houston 17, 1976 NY Jets 7 (Houston wins series 2-1) 1992 Philadelphia 14, 2001 NY Jets 10 (Philadelphia wins series 2-1) 2003 Washington 31, 1939 Chicago 7 (Washington wins series 2-1) Big upsets in game three:* None to report (any upsets were against slight favorites) Matchup nobody wants tickets to see: *1999 San Francisco 29, 1981 New England 26 (San Francisco wins series 2-1)

06-14-2004, 03:58 PM	#160
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	I should clarify Falcons ranking again by stating that they are tied for second with the 2003 Patriots and the 2001 Rams (this is why I didn't remember them being second before, because of the sort order in Excel). Out of curiosity, let's stack the 1998 Vikings against the 1999 Rams. This will also give some opportunity to explain the ratings that are used by the game. Code: Team OFF DEF CGF NRM Minnesota Vikings 1998 25 8 7 17 St. Louis Rams 1999 21 6 1 17 The teams are equal in normalization so that can be disregarded. Minnesota has the better offense, while the Rams are somewhat better on defense (lower number in the DEF column means better defense). In a neutral site affair, the Vikings are expected to score 31 points (25 from Vikes OFF plus 6 from Rams DEF), while the Rams are expected to score 29 (21 from Rams OFF plus 8 from Vikings DEF), which generates a line of -2 for Minnesota. The one thing that sets Minnesota apart is their ability to win close games. I don't know the exact formula for it, but as I recall it had something to do with expected wins based on point differential versus actual wins. Do note that the 7 value Minnesota gets is about average. 2003 New England, for example, merits a "15" rating in close games, which means they are a pretty good bet to score at the end of a ballgame. At the other end, the 1981 Patriots have a CGF of -5, which means they pretty much have no chance at scoring and are blessed only by the fact that a CGM cannot be greater than -12, which is what they'd get facing any team with a CGF of 7 or better. In reality, the differences between the best teams in either rankings are slight at best. We are talking about 1492 teams overall and from the cold, cold realm of space occupied by the orbit of the 1942 Lions, the bright sun represented by the Vikings and the inner planetary orbit the Rams inhabit are practically touching one another. Last edited by Wolfpack : 06-14-2004 at 04:02 PM.

06-14-2004, 04:11 PM	#161
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	No love for the '93 Cowboys? I've always felt that they were a better team than the '92 bunch... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

06-15-2004, 03:16 PM	#169
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Game threes are played out... Code: Kansas City Chiefs 1980 (8-8) 17-10 Buffalo Bills 1996 (10-6, WC) Dallas Cowboys 1970 (10-4, C) 14-17* Minnesota Vikings 1970 (12-2, D) Oakland Raiders 1999 (8-8) 34-10 San Diego Chargers 1997 (4-12) Minnesota Vikings 1973 (12-2, C) 17- 7 St. Louis Cardinals 1975 (11-3, D) Atlanta Falcons 1999 (5-11) 27-34 New Orleans Saints 1992 (12-4, WC) Minnesota Vikings 1996 (9-7, WC) 41-28 St. Louis Cardinals 1984 (9-7) Philadelphia Eagles 1995 (10-6, WC) 17-20 Phoenix Cardinals 1990 (5-11) San Diego Chargers 2003 (4-12) 28-52 Buffalo Bills 1998 (10-6, WC) -in OT Series winners bolded* Headliner: 1970 Dallas vs. 1970 Minnesota One of the best series in a while has a game three so good and so close, it needs more time beyond the sixty minutes to decide who'll win. The game starts quickly, unlike the prior two games in the series, with both teams scoring touchdowns in the first, leaving the game tied at 7 after one. Defenses re-assert themselves, however, in the second, producing 15 scoreless minutes of football before halftime. In the third, the Vikings took the lead on a touchdown and made that stand up until late in the fourth quarter, when Dallas struck for a touchdown from 34 yards out to tie the game at 14. Minnesota made a risky play by going for a 60-yard field goal on the last play of the game and nearly had it backfire as it was blocked, but Dallas failed to recover and score. The Vikings got the ball first in overtime and moved into field goal range, where they lined up for a more reasonable 40-yard attempt. Snap, hold, it's up...it's good! It's good! The Vikings win! Minnesota wins game three 17-14 in overtime and takes the series 2-1! Other playoff team matchups:* 1973 Minnesota 17, 1975 St. Louis Cardinals 7 (Minnesota wins series 2-1) Upset updates:* 1980 Kansas City 17, 1996 Buffalo 10 (Kansas City wins series 2-1) (SERIES UPSET) 1970 Minnesota 17, 1970 Dallas 14 (OT) (Minnesota wins series 2-1) 1999 Oakland 34, 1997 San Diego 10 (Oakland wins series 2-1) 1973 Minnesota 17, 1975 St. Louis Cardinals 7 (Minnesota wins series 2-1) 1992 New Orleans 34, 1999 Atlanta 27 (New Orleans wins 2-1) 1990 Phoenix Cardinals 20, 1995 Philadelphia 17 (Cardinals win 2-1) (SERIES UPSET) 1998 Buffalo 52, 2003 San Diego 28 (Buffalo wins series 2-1) Upsets in game three:* 1980 Kansas City 17, 1996 Buffalo 10 (Buffalo -11) 1996 Minnesota 41, 1984 St. Louis Cardinals 28 (Cardinals -1) (SERIES UPSET) *1990 Phoenix Cardinals 20, 1995 Philadelphia 17 (Philadelphia -6)

06-15-2004, 03:46 PM	#172
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Bah, fucking Vikings... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

06-14-2004, 12:16 PM	#152
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Just realized this thread has reached a fourth page. I don't think I've made any thread last more than two before on any board. sniff I'm so proud! (no...not really...) At any rate, game threes will be posted shortly.

06-14-2004, 03:15 PM	#155
Warhammer Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dayton, OH	I'm actually surprised that those Vikings are the #1 and the Falcons are the #2. I would have expected the 99 Rams to at least be #2. They were certainly better than that Falcons team. Then again, they might not be rated well since their defensive passing numbers were not that great, mainly due to everyone passing to try and catch them.

06-14-2004, 03:19 PM	#156
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	The Falcons weren't a #2 (as I recall) but they were I think in the top 10 of the game's ratings. These ratings did include the normalization grade, BTW. Without it, a lot of the old teams suddenly become very, very good. As I recall, the 1999 Rams with normalization ranked about #35. I think I'll spend a couple of minutes and get the numbers from Excel to spit out a Top 10 in both arrangements.

06-14-2004, 03:37 PM	#157
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	I mis-spoke. The Falcons were ranked second in the normalized version of the rankings. Top 25 w/ normalization Minnesota Vikings 1998 Atlanta Falcons 1998 New England Patriots 2003 St. Louis Rams 2001 Denver Broncos 1998 Indianapolis Colts 1999 Jacksonville Jaguars 1999 Kansas City Chiefs 1995 Pittsburgh Steelers 2001 San Francisco 49ers 1984 San Francisco 49ers 1989 San Francisco 49ers 1992 Tennessee Titans 1999 Washington Redskins 1991 Chicago Bears 1985 Chicago Bears 2001 Denver Broncos 1996 Green Bay Packers 1997 Kansas City Chiefs 1997 Kansas City Chiefs 2003 Los Angeles Raiders 1982 New York Giants 1986 San Francisco 49ers 1990 San Francisco 49ers 1997 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2002 Other teams of note in top 50: 2001 Chicago #26, 1994 San Francisco #28, 1992 Dallas #32, 1990 NY Giants #34, 1999 St. Louis Rams #35, 1997 Denver #37, 1968 Baltimore Colts #40, 1962 Green Bay #41, 1996 Green Bay #42, 1978 Pittsburgh #47 (1972 Miami comes in way down at #69) Top 25 w/o normalization Chicago Bears 1942 Chicago Bears 1941 Minnesota Vikings 1998 San Francisco 49ers 1984 Baltimore Colts 1968 Green Bay Packers 1962 Cleveland Browns 1948 Atlanta Falcons 1998 New England Patriots 2003 St. Louis Rams 2001 Los Angeles Raiders 1982 Minnesota Vikings 1970 Chicago Cardinals 1948 Green Bay Packers 1941 Philadelphia Stars 1984 San Francisco 49ers 1989 San Francisco 49ers 1992 Washington Redskins 1991 Chicago Bears 1985 New York Giants 1986 Washington Redskins 1983 Pittsburgh Steelers 1978 Miami Dolphins 1972 Oakland Raiders 1967 New York Giants 1950 Other teams of note in the top 50: 1998 Denver #27, 1977 Dallas #33, 1975 Pittsburgh #34, 1976 Oakland #36, 1966 Green Bay #40 Normalization seems pretty weighted in favor of the modern NFL teams, but it also does a number against the teams from the USFL, AAFC, and AFL. Without it, the 1984 Philadelphia Stars check in at #14. With it, they plunge to #385. It seems fairly obvious that the #385 ranking is closer to the truth than #14 of all time.

06-14-2004, 03:39 PM	#158
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Oh, and for those curious, the worst team with normalization figured in is the 1942 Lions, far and away. With no normalization, the Lions do move up one place to #1491. The basement dweller in this arrangement is the 1976 Buccaneers.

06-14-2004, 03:52 PM	#159
Warhammer Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dayton, OH	Interesting, the 1999 Titans, Colts, and Jaguars are seeded higher than the 1999 Rams. Not that those teams were not that great, but I would think the Rams would have been a little closer to them in seeding. I also think the numbers without normalization are very interesting, almost a who's who of NFL football, with the exception of the 98 Falcons and 84 Stars.

06-14-2004, 04:15 PM	#162
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	I just came up with a different seeding formula. This one is based on expected line versus the "average team" in the field, defined as the average of each of the game's ratings (close game factors don't come into the equation in this instance): Normalized Rankings Minnesota Vikings 1998 St. Louis Rams 1999 St. Louis Rams 2001 Washington Redskins 1991 Green Bay Packers 1996 Denver Broncos 1998 San Francisco 49ers 1984 Chicago Bears 1985 San Francisco 49ers 1994 Baltimore Colts 1968 Green Bay Packers 1962 Denver Broncos 1997 Oakland Raiders 2000 San Francisco 49ers 1995 Atlanta Falcons 1998 Jacksonville Jaguars 1999 San Francisco 49ers 1989 San Francisco 49ers 1992 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2002 San Francisco 49ers 1987 Baltimore Ravens 2000 Oakland Raiders 2002 Pittsburgh Steelers 1975 Pittsburgh Steelers 1976 San Francisco 49ers 1993 Un-normalized rankings Chicago Bears 1942 Chicago Bears 1941 Baltimore Colts 1968 Green Bay Packers 1962 Chicago Bears 1948 Cleveland Browns 1946 Minnesota Vikings 1998 Washington Redskins 1991 Minnesota Vikings 1969 St. Louis Rams 1999 San Francisco 49ers 1984 Pittsburgh Steelers 1975 Pittsburgh Steelers 1976 Minnesota Vikings 1970 Oakland Raiders 1968 Oakland Raiders 1967 Philadelphia Eagles 1949 San Francisco 49ers 1948 Houston Oilers 1961 St. Louis Rams 2001 Green Bay Packers 1996 Chicago Bears 1985 Los Angeles Rams 1973 Baltimore Colts 1964 Cleveland Browns 1950 Chicago Cardinals 1948 Philadelphia Eagles 1948 San Francisco 49ers 1949 Philadelphia Stars 1984 Cleveland Browns 1947 (extra five teams at the bottom due to ties) Provides a slightly different look to things. In that last ranking, the Falcons slide all the way to #80 behind such USFL luminaries as the 1984 Stallions and the 1984 Arizona Wranglers.

06-15-2004, 02:01 PM	#167
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	A moment of silence, please. The 1985 Birmingham Stallions have been eliminated. As a result, the USFL is now completely eliminated from the tournament. . . . . Thank you.

06-15-2004, 03:20 PM	#170
SplitPersonality1 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Grafton, WI	All 5 Minnesota teams advance. Woohoo.

06-16-2004, 03:22 PM	#176
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Game threes for this group: Code: Kansas City Chiefs 1991 (10-6, WC) 16-40 St. Louis Cardinals 1970 (8-5-1) New York Giants 1950 (10-2) 6-21 New England Patriots 1990 (1-15) New York Jets 1979 (8-8) 7-24 Carolina Panthers 2000 (7-9) New Orleans Saints 1999 (3-13) 17-24 Kansas City Chiefs 1982 (3-6) Seattle Seahawks 1997 (8-8) 24-23 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2000 (10-6, WC) Houston Oilers 1989 (9-7, WC) 9-16 Washington Redskins 1981 (8-8) Los Angeles Rams 1990 (5-11) 21-37 Miami Dolphins 1992 (11-5, D) Dallas Cowboys 2000 (5-11) 20-38 San Diego Chargers 1991 (4-12) San Diego Chargers 1966 (7-6-1) 28-30 Los Angeles Rams 1994 (4-12) Cleveland Browns 2003 (5-11) 21- 3 Pittsburgh Steelers 1973 (10-4, WC) It's the ghastly truth. The 1990 New England Patriots pull the upset of the group by knocking out the 1950 Giants, who were heavily favored in all three contests. A 1-15 team marches on to round four. Not only that, but so do a 7-9 team, a 3-6 team, and a pair of 4-12 teams. They join a pair of 6-10 teams and a 7-9 team that advanced earlier. That's eight teams that finished below .500 moving on from this group. Told you it wasn't the best group. Upsets in game three: 1970 St. Louis Cardinals 40, 1991 Kansas City 16 (Kansas City -3) (SERIES UPSET) 1990 New England 21, 1950 New York Giants 6 (Giants -9) (SERIES UPSET) 1997 Seattle 24, 2000 Tampa Bay 23 (Tampa Bay -4) (SERIES UPSET) 1991 San Diego 38, 2000 Dallas 20 (Dallas -2) (SERIES UPSET)

06-16-2004, 03:24 PM	#177
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	One other note about the group. The Houston Texans become the first current NFL team to lose all their teams from the tournament after the 2003 squad was routed out by the 2001 Bears. Granted, they only had two to start with.

06-16-2004, 04:16 PM	#178
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Here's the pairings for group four. After the winners are determined, we'll be halfway done with the round and I'll post the list of the 128 teams that are moving on to round four. Code: Green Bay Packers 2002 (12-4, D) vs. Pittsburgh Steelers 1980 (9-7) Seattle Seahawks 2000 (6-10) vs. Buffalo Bills 1985 (2-14) Kansas City Chiefs 1997 (13-3, D) vs. Chicago Bears 1976 (7-7) Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1994 (6-10) vs. St. Louis Rams 2000 (10-6, WC) Cincinnati Bengals 1979 (4-12) vs. New England Patriots 1996 (11-5, C) Green Bay Packers 2001 (12-4, D) vs. New York Jets 1999 (8-8) Atlanta Falcons 1997 (7-9) vs. Detroit Lions 1981 (8-8) Detroit Lions 1970 (10-4, WC) vs. Chicago Bears 1962 (9-5) San Francisco 49ers 1979 (2-14) vs. Detroit Lions 1986 (5-11) Indianapolis Colts 2002 (10-6, WC) vs. Detroit Lions 1974 (7-7) Atlanta Falcons 2003 (5-11) vs. Detroit Lions 2003 (5-11) New England Patriots 1993 (5-11) vs. Atlanta Falcons 1998 (14-2, C) St. Louis Cardinals 1961 (7-7) vs. San Francisco 49ers 1993 (10-6) Dallas Cowboys 1981 (12-4, D) vs. New Orleans Saints 1974 (5-9) Washington Redskins 1986 (12-4, WC) vs. New York Jets 1984 (7-9) Washington Redskins 1972 (11-3, C) vs. Carolina Panthers 2003 (11-5, C) Dallas Cowboys 1994 (12-4, D) vs. Kansas City Chiefs 1967 (9-5) New York Jets 1990 (6-10) vs. New England Patriots 1971 (6-8) Washington Redskins 1976 (10-4, WC) vs. Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1989 (5-11) Los Angeles Rams 1949 (8-2-2, C) vs. Dallas Cowboys 1999 (8-8) Philadelphia Eagles 1990 (10-6, WC) vs. New England Patriots 1984 (9-7) Baltimore Ravens 2002 (7-9) vs. Detroit Lions 2001 (2-14) New England Patriots 2002 (9-7) vs. Pittsburgh Steelers 2003 (6-10) Arizona Cardinals 1994 (8-8) vs. New Orleans Saints 1968 (4-9-1) Washington Redskins 1983 (14-2, C) vs. Pittsburgh Steelers 1967 (4-9-1) Washington Redskins 1979 (10-6) vs. Philadelphia Eagles 2001 (11-5, D) Miami Dolphins 1985 (12-4, D) vs. Dallas Cowboys 1997 (6-10) San Francisco 49ers 1987 (13-2, D) vs. New England Patriots 1999 (8-8) Green Bay Packers 1960 (8-4, C) vs. New York Jets 1996 (1-15) New Orleans Saints 1989 (9-7) vs. New York Giants 1992 (6-10) Los Angeles Rams 1976 (10-3-1, D) vs. San Diego Chargers 2002 (8-8) San Diego Chargers 1993 (8-8) vs. San Francisco 49ers 1998 (12-4, WC) This group portends better matchups than the last one, though curiously there is only one playoff team matchup in the entire group. This is not to say that all the other playoff teams have walkovers. Far from it. It looks like many of them have drawn near-playoff teams who typically finished 9-7 or 8-8 but lost out on tiebreakers or whatever. Headliner: 1972 Washington vs. 2003 Carolina It's the only playoff team matchup, so it wins by default. The 1972 Redskins won the NFC East with an 11-3 mark, though they lost two straight at the end of the year. They went on to whip both Green Bay and Dallas, but were beaten by the only perfect team in NFL history, the 1972 Dolphins, 14-7 in Super Bowl VII. The Panthers had risen from the ashes of a 1-15 season in 2001 to 7-9 in 2002 to a surprising 11-5 record and winners of the NFC South in 2003. They beat up Dallas at home in the wild card round, stunned St. Louis in OT on the road, then beat down Philadelphia (also on the road), before falling to the New England Patriots in the wildest finish to a Super Bowl yet seen in Super Bowl XXXVIII. Because of normalization factors, I do expect the Panthers to chug through this matchup like they did against the 1973 Dolphins in the last round. Matchup nobody wants tickets to see:* 1979 San Francisco vs. 1986 Detroit By one game, this matchup earns the dubious distinction for this group. The 49ers were a truly awful 2-14 in 1979, little foreshadowing what was to come for the franchise in the 1980s. The 1986 Lions were 5-11, but surprisingly enough finished 3rd in a pretty wretched NFC Central completely dominated by the Bears that year. In all, 44 teams in this group have the same number of wins (7) or more as these two teams combined. Last edited by Wolfpack : 06-16-2004 at 04:17 PM.*

06-16-2004, 04:30 PM	#179
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	I'm expecting three of the four Cowboys teams to advance this round... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

06-16-2004, 04:39 PM	#180
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	You don't make many reaches, do you? They do seem to have a pretty good shot at it, though.

06-18-2004, 01:15 PM	#184
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	The 128 survivors thus far: Arizona Cardinals 1994 Arizona Cardinals 1998 Arizona Cardinals 1999 Atlanta Falcons 1998 Atlanta Falcons 2001 Baltimore Colts 1964 Baltimore Colts 1968 Baltimore Ravens 2001 Baltimore Ravens 2002 Buffalo Bills 1996 Buffalo Bills 1998 Carolina Panthers 2000 Carolina Panthers 2003 Chicago Bears 1962 Chicago Bears 1986 Chicago Bears 1988 Chicago Bears 2001 Cincinnati Bengals 2000 Cleveland Browns 2003 Dallas Cowboys 1981 Dallas Cowboys 1994 Dallas Cowboys 1997 Dallas Cowboys 1999 Dallas Cowboys 2003 Denver Broncos 1984 Denver Broncos 1991 Denver Broncos 1999 Detroit Lions 1980 Detroit Lions 1981 Detroit Lions 1986 Detroit Lions 2003 Green Bay Packers 1960 Green Bay Packers 1963 Green Bay Packers 1997 Green Bay Packers 1999 Green Bay Packers 2001 Green Bay Packers 2002 Green Bay Packers 2003 Houston Oilers 1976 Houston Oilers 1988 Houston Oilers 1993 Houston Oilers 1996 Indianapolis Colts 2002 Indianapolis Colts 2003 Jacksonville Jaguars 1997 Jacksonville Jaguars 1999 Jacksonville Jaguars 2001 Kansas City Chiefs 1982 Kansas City Chiefs 1990 Kansas City Chiefs 1992 Kansas City Chiefs 1993 Kansas City Chiefs 1994 Kansas City Chiefs 1995 Kansas City Chiefs 1997 Los Angeles Rams 1975 Los Angeles Rams 1977 Los Angeles Rams 1992 Los Angeles Rams 1994 Miami Dolphins 1978 Miami Dolphins 1979 Miami Dolphins 1981 Miami Dolphins 1986 Miami Dolphins 1992 Miami Dolphins 1994 Miami Dolphins 1995 Miami Dolphins 2000 Minnesota Vikings 1964 Minnesota Vikings 1970 Minnesota Vikings 1973 Minnesota Vikings 1989 Minnesota Vikings 1990 Minnesota Vikings 1992 Minnesota Vikings 1993 Minnesota Vikings 1994 Minnesota Vikings 1996 Minnesota Vikings 1998 New England Patriots 1978 New England Patriots 1990 New England Patriots 1996 New England Patriots 1998 New England Patriots 1999 New England Patriots 2002 New Orleans Saints 1984 New Orleans Saints 1987 New Orleans Saints 1988 New Orleans Saints 1989 New Orleans Saints 1992 New Orleans Saints 1993 New York Giants 1972 New York Giants 1985 New York Jets 1984 New York Jets 1990 Oakland Raiders 1995 Oakland Raiders 1999 Oakland Raiders 2000 Philadelphia Eagles 1975 Philadelphia Eagles 1990 Philadelphia Eagles 1992 Philadelphia Eagles 2001 Phoenix Cardinals 1990 Pittsburgh Steelers 1995 Pittsburgh Steelers 2000 San Diego Chargers 1986 San Diego Chargers 1991 San Diego Chargers 1994 San Diego Chargers 1995 San Diego Chargers 2002 San Francisco 49ers 1993 San Francisco 49ers 1995 San Francisco 49ers 1996 San Francisco 49ers 1998 San Francisco 49ers 1999 Seattle Seahawks 1985 Seattle Seahawks 1986 Seattle Seahawks 1997 Seattle Seahawks 1998 Seattle Seahawks 2000 St. Louis Cardinals 1970 St. Louis Rams 2000 St. Louis Rams 2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1980 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2003 Washington Redskins 1976 Washington Redskins 1981 Washington Redskins 1983 Washington Redskins 1992 Washington Redskins 2000 Washington Redskins 2003

06-18-2004, 04:34 PM	#185
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Woot! Dallas sweeps all around!!! __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

06-28-2004, 08:27 AM	#186
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	bump

06-28-2004, 10:18 AM	#187
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	I see your bump and raise you a busy work schedule. Seriously, I've had my downtime at work go, well, down quite a bit over the last couple of weeks, so I haven't been able to get into this like I want. I should also note that I will be heading out of town Thursday and won't be back until the 12th. I'm pondering whether I should pop the game on a zip disk and take it with me and perhaps post a couple of times from my parents' house in NC since we'll be there most of next week. At any rate, I'll try to see if I can get this round done before I leave, but I've still got a lot to get through before then, so it may not be until I get back that the round gets completely done. So, that's where things are at the moment.

07-20-2004, 03:54 PM	#189
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Woohoo! SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

07-20-2004, 04:06 PM	#190
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Excellent, glad to see this back. Go Cowboys!!!! __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

07-22-2004, 09:59 AM	#191
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	I just realized I goofed in the number of pairings. This group has 64 pairings rather than 32. To save myself the annoyance of having to re-do the schedule sheet above, I'll stick to 64 pairings for this group. I will compensate by shortening the next two groups to 16 pairings each and then return to 32 for the final group, which will have all the champions in it (though a couple will be in the next to last group as there are more than 32 champions left).

07-22-2004, 10:57 AM	#193
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	As long as we beat the Niners I'll be happy with this bracket... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

07-22-2004, 12:04 PM	#194
Vince Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Willow Glen, CA	Bummed to see some of our better teams getting bumped...still holding out hope for that '84 team though. __________________ Every time a Dodger scores a run, an angel has its wings ripped off by a demon, and is forced to tearfully beg the demon to cauterize the wounds.The demon will refuse, and the sobbing angel will lie in a puddle of angel blood and feathers for eternity, wondering why the Dodgers are allowed to score runs.That’s not me talking: that’s science. McCoveyChronicles.com.

07-22-2004, 02:32 PM	#196
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Darn. The '80 and '87 Oilers went down but at least the Titans lost in the main event game. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

07-22-2004, 05:44 PM	#198
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	I just noticed something...which of you suck-ups gave me star ratings? This will not get your favorite teams further in the tournament. Seriously, thanks.

07-23-2004, 05:57 AM	#199
Vince Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Willow Glen, CA	Man...the marginal Niners teams are dropping like flies. Losing the '83 team hurt __________________ Every time a Dodger scores a run, an angel has its wings ripped off by a demon, and is forced to tearfully beg the demon to cauterize the wounds.The demon will refuse, and the sobbing angel will lie in a puddle of angel blood and feathers for eternity, wondering why the Dodgers are allowed to score runs.That’s not me talking: that’s science. McCoveyChronicles.com.

07-23-2004, 11:10 AM	#200
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Remember, I overdid the last group, so these next two groups are reduced to sixteen pairings. Group 6: Code: Philadelphia Eagles 1997 (6-9-1) vs. Cincinnati Bengals 1985 (7-9) New York Jets 1988 (8-7-1) vs. Minnesota Vikings 1985 (7-9) New York Jets 1985 (11-5, WC) vs. Green Bay Packers 1984 (8-8) Pittsburgh Steelers 1994 (12-4, D) vs. San Diego Chargers 1992 (11-5, D) Detroit Lions 2000 (9-7) vs. Los Angeles Rams 1993 (5-11) St. Louis Rams 1997 (5-11) vs. New Orleans Saints 2002 (9-7) Atlanta Falcons 1978 (9-7, WC) vs. Buffalo Bills 1995 (10-6, D) Philadelphia Eagles 1970 (3-10-1) vs. Miami Dolphins 1975 (10-4) New York Giants 1995 (5-11) vs. Philadelphia Eagles 1989 (11-5, WC) Detroit Lions 1982 (4-5, P) vs. Indianapolis Colts 1994 (8-8) New York Jets 2002 (9-7, D) vs. Detroit Lions 1998 (5-11) San Francisco 49ers 1968 (7-6-1) vs. Carolina Panthers 1995 (7-9) Minnesota Vikings 1982 (5-4, P) vs. Los Angeles Rams 1973 (12-2, D) Arizona Cardinals 2002 (5-11) vs. Minnesota Vikings 1997 (9-7, WC) Indianapolis Colts 2000 (10-6, WC) vs. Detroit Lions 1994 (9-7, WC) Detroit Lions 1966 (4-9-1) vs. Minnesota Vikings 1977 (9-5, D) Headliner: 1994 Pittsburgh vs. 1992 San Diego A good solid matchup featuring a pair of division champs. The 1994 Steelers never lost more than one game in a row the entire year. However, they lost twice to San Diego, once in the last game of the season in San Diego and then three weeks later in Pittsburgh when the Chargers upset the Steelers 17-13 to go to the Super Bowl. On the other side, the Chargers sucked it up early, starting 0-4, but finished the season 11-1, the only loss being a 16-14 loss to the Chiefs at Arrowhead in early November. They shut out the Chiefs in wild card round but were shut out in turn by Miami 31-0 in the divisional round. Other playoff team matchups: 1978 Atlanta (NFC wild card) vs. 1995 Buffalo (AFC East champs) 1982 Minnesota (NFC playoff team) vs. 1973 Los Angeles Rams (NFC West champs) 2000 Indianapolis (AFC wild card) vs. 1994 Detroit (NFC wild card) Matchup nobody wants tickets to see:* 1997 Philadelphia vs. 1985 Cincinnati *Slim pickings for this award with the smaller group size. Probably a sign of things to come as the field narrows. Neither team was flat-out horrible, but neither team made it to .500, either. In a first for the award, the combined win total of the two teams exceeds the all other teams' individual win counts in the group.

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