NFL Week 5 - Page 4

Cringer · 10-07-2007, 11:14 PM

Yeah you are correct. Favre can't play under pressure. He crumbles. Barely better then, say, Rex Grossman.

dime · 10-07-2007, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cringer

Yeah you are correct. Favre can't play under pressure. He crumbles. Barely better then, say, Rex Grossman.

I'll take the bait...the packers were hot for grossman in the draft that year because everyone agreed that his style of play and personality reminded them more of brett favre than anyone else.

Obviously favre is a better QB, but I've been watching him play since he got to GB and bad rex and bad brett are about the same player. Mike McCarthy's biggest victory has been apparently winning favre over and getting him to play on a leash and dink and dunk everything this year, it's the best year I've seen him have since 1996 when he was surrounded by pro bowlers.

Cringer · 10-07-2007, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dime

I'll take the bait...the packers were hot for grossman in the draft that year because everyone agreed that his style of play and personality reminded them more of brett favre than anyone else.

Obviously favre is a better QB, but I've been watching him play since he got to GB and bad rex and bad brett are about the same player. Mike McCarthy's biggest victory has been apparently winning favre over and getting him to play on a leash and dink and dunk everything this year, it's the best year I've seen him have since 1996 when he was surrounded by pro bowlers.

You can "Bad" label any QB and that type of play from that player is obviously crap. Favre has had an oustanding career. The best ever? No, even as a Packer fan I wouldn't say that. One of the best, IMO yes.

Here's the big differences between Favre and someone like Grossman. Grossman had a damn good defense, and damn good running game, and screwed it all up and lost his job in the end. Favre had a damn good defense and a running game, and won a Super Bowl, and went to a second. Now he has a damn good defense to back him up again, has listened to his coaches to be more patient because of that D, and they are winning again.

You try to discount what Favre did in the past because he "was surrounded by pro bowlers." Favre excelled, as any really good QB would, with that talent around him. A crap QB, like Grossman, still blows it and loses his job.

BTW, 1996 was a damn good year but not his best. He also has had 4 years since then with a QB rating over 90, not counting this year.

Back to your original post, I don't ever recall him being hailed as one of the great comeback kings of all time. I could be wrong there, but even so he has done well there so guys are not totally to blame if they say he is good at 4th quarter comebacks. IMO of course......

Greyroofoo · 10-07-2007, 11:45 PM

I can't see the Colts

Cringer · 10-07-2007, 11:50 PM

And one more comment, about Favre in tonight's game. I take it you prefer he throw risky passes downfield into coverage instead of taking what was given to him? It wasn't a great drive by any means, but atleast they had a chance at the end instead of Favre throwing downfield to someone earlier in the drive and getting picked off then because of double coverage.

I won't blame Favre for blowing that final drive because he did those short passes under the coverage. Watching on TV, I was unable to see all of the coverage downfield and if anyone was open or not. Maybe you could though.

st.cronin · 10-07-2007, 11:52 PM

I think Brett Favre is the greatest quarterback of all time.

Swaggs · 10-08-2007, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think Brett Favre is the greatest quarterback of all time.

Somewhere, Tom Brady has tears in his eyes...

Greyroofoo · 10-08-2007, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Somewhere, Tom Brady has tears in his eyes...

Is there some one flaunting the mexican n flag??????????

Jas_lov · 10-08-2007, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Front Office Midget

I was pretty upset that they took away a timeout from Green Bay even though the challenge was correct, in that the spot of the ball was incorrect and therefore changed. McCarthy was right in challenging the spot of the ball, they changed the spot of the ball, why would Green Bay be charged a timeout? The first down measurement only came after the change of the spot of the ball.

I'm surprised they didn't put up more of a fight about that.

I'm not sure on this, but maybe it's because you can only challenge a ball spot when it involves a 1st down or touchdown. So if the 1st down wasn't changed, then they lost the challenge. Regardless, the Packers deserved to lose after that pathetic performance in the 2nd half. Jones's two fumbles hurt, but they still had a 10 point lead until Favre stupid INT and Woodson's fumble. Those 2 turnovers led to Bears points which tied the game. Bad playcalling, penalties, questionable calls(Has anyone else ever seen that DT lining up over the center on a FG called before?). It was just an overall bad performance by the Packers in the 2nd half. But if they come out and beat Washington next week, they'll still be in pretty good shape.

JonInMiddleGA · 10-08-2007, 06:25 AM

I do believe the ugliness (off-field variety) may eventually match the ugliness (on-field variety).

Alge Crumpler pretty well went off on/about Petrino in today's paper.
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/sha...rust_cr_1.html

“I’ve never been in a game where we had that many opportunities — and a miracle, with a [botched] punt — and we still couldn’t score,” tight end Alge Crumpler said. “When we cross the 50, we’re the worst offense in the National Football League.

“We’re trying to trust them. They keep telling us, ‘Trust us, trust us.’ We’ve been trying to trust them the whole time.” ... “If [the defense is playing] a cover-two and we’ve got Michael Jenkins running down the middle of the field, or myself running down the middle of the field, why aren’t we getting opportunities to make plays?” Crumpler said. “That’s what I’ve been doing my whole career. But I haven’t caught the ball one time since this regime has been here, in practice or anything. So I’m scratching my head. I’m trusting, OK? I’m trusting. But 1-4 makes you think about a lot of things.”

FWIW, I believe that's more than I remember hearing from Crumpler the whole time he's been here.

And when you're longing for Joey Harrington to be on the field, you know the situation is pretty damned bad.

Danny · 10-08-2007, 06:41 AM

The Raiders are now in first place in the AFC West!!

dime · 10-08-2007, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cringer

And one more comment, about Favre in tonight's game. I take it you prefer he throw risky passes downfield into coverage instead of taking what was given to him? It wasn't a great drive by any means, but atleast they had a chance at the end instead of Favre throwing downfield to someone earlier in the drive and getting picked off then because of double coverage.

I won't blame Favre for blowing that final drive because he did those short passes under the coverage. Watching on TV, I was unable to see all of the coverage downfield and if anyone was open or not. Maybe you could though.

Well, good quarterbacks have to take risky passes downfield into coverage sometime. At this point Brett is either unwilling to do that due to his erratic accuracy or the offense is just not running any deep seep routes anymore? As far as the last drive, the issue was not so much that he kept throwing it short in the middle of the field, but that he also seemed to have no sense of urgency. They wasted a lot of time from play to play for what was supposed to be a no-huddle offense.

As far as your comment about Favre winning a super bowl surrounded by pro bowlers and a running game and a defense, you are right that not just any QB can do that. However, Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon each did that so I don't think the super bowl is proof of Favre's "greatness". When Favre was tossing 30 INTs everyone made excuses for him and said he didn't have enough talent around him...if he were an elite QB he would not perform so poorly with only average players around him.

His main strength have been the ability to make a play, which is essential for a great QB (I haven't seen it from, say, Mr. Brady) and quite rare. However, he never really matured to the point where he could temper this instinct to avoid disaster/brainfart throws and fumbles when there simply isn't a play to be made. He throws/threw with great velocity between the hashmarks. He used to be awful on sideline routes, always missing high (which he also did over the middle and led to a lot of tipped INTs) but a few years ago he seemed to get better at throwing it outside the hashes, to the point where he was average or mediocre on those plays. Very good at setting up a screen pass. Doesn't throw it deep real well, throws a pop fly that will not beat a safety to the spot. For awhile they had great success on a designed underthrow on these plays, where they frequently got a 30 yard pass interference penalty as the DB would run into the WR who suddenly stopped to work back to catch the underthrow. Favre has also been unusually difficult to tackle for a QB, slipping out of sure sacks more often than not. Again, this ability is a double-edged sword as his ball security has been poor and he fumbles a lot trying to escape these sacks.

As far as any QB being awful when they are bad, I appreciate your point to an extent but guys like Favre and Grossman are notable for both the frequency and the degree of their poor play when they are 'bad'. For awhile Favre was an absolute turnover machine in the playoffs, not just throwing for 3 or 4 picks but fumbling the ball 2 or 3 times as well. That just isn't something that a great QB does on such a consistent/predictable basis. Yet, as this thread indicates, some people actually think he's the best ever at his position.

People like to root for Favre for the same reasons people root for John Daly, I guess. That just never appealed to me. I think Daly is, to be kind, not exactly a model human being and not a real good golfer either. For me, Favre is in the same boat.

Arles · 10-08-2007, 08:12 AM

Favre isn't as good as he was in the late 90s, but his body of work should easily rank fairly high. He's 2nd in 4th quarter combacks with 38 (to Elway's 47). His records include: most career NFL touchdown passes (423), most consecutive starts among NFL quarterbacks (242, 262 total starts including playoffs), most career pass completions (5,162), most career pass attempts (8,433), and most career victories as a starting quarterback (151). Favre is second only to Dan Marino (61,361) in NFL career passing yards with 59,027. Of course, to be fair, he also has the INT record with 277.

To compare someone with that track record to Jim McMahon seems a little short-sighted. Is he the best? No, not close. Is he top 5? Again, I don't think so. But he should be in the top 10-12 in the same way Walter Payton should be in the top 10-12 in RBs. In his 15 full seasons as a starter, he's averaged 62.5% completions, 3850 yards, 28 TDs, and 16 INTs. To put it in perspective, here are Brady's numbers in his 6 full seasons: 61.5%, 3550 yards, 24.5 TDs and 13 INTs.

So, while Favre certainly isn't the best ever, he's been a pretty good QB for 15 seasons with a career QB rating of 85.3 (8 seasons over 90). I understand the reason people like Dime want to knock him (all the media attention he gets, much of it excessive), but when you look at his body of work there are not many QBs in the history of the game that should go above him.

Arles · 10-08-2007, 08:45 AM

To follow up, I look at the TD and INT % per attempt for some of the best passers of all time. I ranked them by difference between the two:

Young: 5.5%, 2.6%: +2.9
Montana 5.1%, 2.6%: +2.5
Marino 5.0%, 3.1%: +1.9
Favre 5.0%, 3.3%: +1.7
Tarkington 5.3%, 4.1%: +1.2
Kelly 4.9%, 3.7%: +1.2
Elway 4.1%, 3.1%: +1.0
Moon 4.3%, 3.4%: +0.9
Unitas 5.6%, 4.9%: +0.7
Aikman 3.5%, 3.0%: +0.5
Bradshaw 5.4%, 5.4%: 0
Baugh 6.3%, 6.8%: -0.5

So, when it comes to "risk/reward" of some of the top passers of all time, Favre ranks comfortably fourth behind Young, Montana and Marino. For Young, too, you need to understand he only had 7.5 full seasons as a starter.

Greyroofoo · 10-08-2007, 11:06 AM

I just realized the Raiders are leading their division.

dervack · 10-08-2007, 11:44 AM

Bears fan, figured I would get that out of the way first. In watching that final drive, while I won't say that Brett doesn't deserve some blame for it, but since I truly don't know this, is the Packers center new this year or recently? It looked like Brett was calling for a silent snap a couple of times and the center didn't catch it the first time Brett did it. So, I'm wondering if the center is to blame a little bit too?

gstelmack · 10-08-2007, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dervack

Bears fan, figured I would get that out of the way first. In watching that final drive, while I won't say that Brett doesn't deserve some blame for it, but since I truly don't know this, is the Packers center new this year or recently? It looked like Brett was calling for a silent snap a couple of times and the center didn't catch it the first time Brett did it. So, I'm wondering if the center is to blame a little bit too?

The center didn't make a little flip-toss straight to Brian Urlacher that led directly to the tying touchdown...

miked · 10-08-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I do believe the ugliness (off-field variety) may eventually match the ugliness (on-field variety).

Alge Crumpler pretty well went off on/about Petrino in today's paper.
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/sha...rust_cr_1.html

“I’ve never been in a game where we had that many opportunities — and a miracle, with a [botched] punt — and we still couldn’t score,” tight end Alge Crumpler said. “When we cross the 50, we’re the worst offense in the National Football League.

“We’re trying to trust them. They keep telling us, ‘Trust us, trust us.’ We’ve been trying to trust them the whole time.” ... “If [the defense is playing] a cover-two and we’ve got Michael Jenkins running down the middle of the field, or myself running down the middle of the field, why aren’t we getting opportunities to make plays?” Crumpler said. “That’s what I’ve been doing my whole career. But I haven’t caught the ball one time since this regime has been here, in practice or anything. So I’m scratching my head. I’m trusting, OK? I’m trusting. But 1-4 makes you think about a lot of things.”

FWIW, I believe that's more than I remember hearing from Crumpler the whole time he's been here.

And when you're longing for Joey Harrington to be on the field, you know the situation is pretty damned bad.

Just a boneheaded coaching move to bring in Leftwich. This is the same Harrington that was on fire the last 2 games because they just let him air it out. There's no excuse to get as many turnovers as the Falcons got and walk away with 13 points. Petrino really has nothing to lose though. He'll get a season to throw away, draft Brohm, and then he'll be responsible. But this game falls squarely on his decisions.

Doug5984 · 10-08-2007, 12:33 PM

Haven't had the chance to read the entire thread, I made it to the Saints game yesterday and I don't know what happened, or where it went wrong but the team this year, and the team we had last year are two completely different teams. We flat out suck. The game yesterday was ugly. Neither team wanted to win, and last year Payton was a great coach, great play caller (in most games), he couldn't do wrong. Yesterday he couldn't do right. It was pathetic....Horrible game management. Reggie was doing fine running up the middle in the first half with 10 carries for 54 yards (horrible line play). Then we came out in the 2nd half and ran the same toss play 8 times or so and every time he got hit in the backfield by 2 guys.

It's going to be a long season for us Saints fans, but on the bright side we can hope for a great draft pick. I think Glen Dorsey would look great in a Saints uniform- give us a great D-Line... I want a defense like the early 90s again.

Radii · 10-08-2007, 12:46 PM

Dear god please let David Carr not be too broken after getting hurt vs the saints:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3054365

Quote:

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Carolina Panthers quarterback Jake Delhomme will miss the rest of the season after deciding to undergo surgery on his right elbow.

dervack · 10-08-2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

The center didn't make a little flip-toss straight to Brian Urlacher that led directly to the tying touchdown...

Well, I'm pretty sure that didn't happen in the final drive, which is what I was talking about. Thanks though.

gstelmack · 10-08-2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii

Dear god please let David Carr not be too broken after getting hurt vs the saints:

Boy that's a new feeling for David Carr.

C'mon, Matt Moore has a 43 YPC and a 21.5 YPA average in his NFL career. And Brett Basanez is waiting in the wings.

Or, Aaron Brookes and Vinny Testaverde are available in FA. Maybe they can trade for Joey Harrington after the way this week went down?

Passacaglia · 10-08-2007, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dime

after the way favre mishandled that last drive, I hope we can put the "clutch 4th quarter comeback" nonsense to bed. favre has never been a guy who plays well under pressure.

I always thought Favre was best in the 2nd quarter. Seemed like every time my Lions played him, he'd manage to pick up a score right before the half. And that seems to fit his personality -- the pressure wasn't exactly on, but it would have been really cool if they scored.

Cringer · 10-08-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dervack

Bears fan, figured I would get that out of the way first. In watching that final drive, while I won't say that Brett doesn't deserve some blame for it, but since I truly don't know this, is the Packers center new this year or recently? It looked like Brett was calling for a silent snap a couple of times and the center didn't catch it the first time Brett did it. So, I'm wondering if the center is to blame a little bit too?

To answer your question instead of trying to take a shot at someone else, the starting center (Scott Wells) was injured earlier in the game. 3rd quarter I think. The center at the end was Jason Spitz, a second year player who spent most of his rookie year starting in the guard spot. So yeah, he wasn't real quick with the snap it sometimes I guess. I didn't even think about it until I read your post......

dervack · 10-08-2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cringer

To answer your question instead of trying to take a shot at someone else, the starting center (Scott Wells) was injured earlier in the game. 3rd quarter I think. The center at the end was Jason Spitz, a second year player who spent most of his rookie year starting in the guard spot. So yeah, he wasn't real quick with the snap it sometimes I guess. I didn't even think about it until I read your post......

Ok thanks. Yeah it was weird, I was watching the final drive and saw on quite a few plays Brett call for the snap and the center looked forward, and then looked back and Brett raise his leg again and then snap it.

Greyroofoo · 10-08-2007, 08:09 PM

Romo with 2 picks thus far.

Lathum · 10-08-2007, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

Romo with 3 picks thus far.

fixed

Lathum · 10-08-2007, 08:47 PM

that was a pretty sweet play

Greyroofoo · 10-08-2007, 08:47 PM

Great play by the lineman.

SFL Cat · 10-08-2007, 08:47 PM

Man, Romo is stinkin' it up tonight.

Lathum · 10-08-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Man, Romo is stinkin' it up tonight.

Carrie Underwood will lick his anus later and make it all better

Greyroofoo · 10-08-2007, 08:49 PM

Wow, just wow.

DeToxRox · 10-08-2007, 08:49 PM

LOL! YES!

DeToxRox · 10-08-2007, 08:50 PM

Playing vs Romo in two fantasy leagues. AMAZING.

Lathum · 10-08-2007, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

Romo with 4 picks thus far.

fixed again.

wade moore · 10-08-2007, 08:52 PM

I'm loving every second of this.

tucker rocky · 10-08-2007, 08:52 PM

Over/Under on how many picks Romo throws tonight?

miami_fan · 10-08-2007, 08:53 PM

who is the backup for Dallas?

DeToxRox · 10-08-2007, 08:53 PM

Somewhere Ty Detmer is watching intently

Lathum · 10-08-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Over/Under on how many picks Romo throws tonight?

4

Lathum · 10-08-2007, 08:56 PM

Romo is going to come out and light up the second half and the Cowboys are going to win.

Why?

because they are annoying and I'm not blessed enough to see the Yankees and Cowboys lose in the same night

Shkspr · 10-08-2007, 08:56 PM

But hey, he's got three TD passes so far.

Rizon · 10-08-2007, 08:57 PM

Tony Leaf is looking terrible tonight.

JeeberD · 10-08-2007, 09:03 PM

Just got back from school. Ummm...this ain't the score or stat line for Romo that I was expecting to see...

miked · 10-08-2007, 09:06 PM

Is that an error or did Folk hit a 73 yd FG??

Shkspr · 10-08-2007, 09:06 PM

Stuck watching the game on NFL.com's Game Center. That FG at the end of the half - that wasn't actually a 73 yarder, was it?

Edit: ::Whew:: 47 yards. Scared there for a sec.

miami_fan · 10-08-2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizon

Tony Leaf is looking terrible tonight.

While on the other sideline, Edwards has not looked bad at all.

Hmmm, a rookie QB starting due to an injury to a veteran for a team that has no playoff aspirations. I wonder if that would work for the Dolphins...

NAAAAHHHH that is just a stupid idea

SunDevil · 10-08-2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Just got back from school. Ummm...this ain't the score or stat line for Romo that I was expecting to see...

Followed by Jeeber saying, "Romo with four picks in the first half against Buffalo, inconceivable."

By the third quarter Jeeber will drink from his cup and I will drink from mine. And then we shall see who is right and who is dead.***

*** And yes I am currently watching that movie right now.

Lathum · 10-08-2007, 09:12 PM

Anyone want to bet that Trent Edwards is the smartest person in the whole city of Buffalo?

sterlingice · 10-08-2007, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunDevil

Followed by Jeeber saying, "Romo with four picks in the first half against Buffalo, inconceivable."

By the third quarter Jeeber will drink from his cup and I will drink from mine. And then we shall see who is right and who is dead.***

*** And yes I am currently watching that movie right now.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means"

SI

10-07-2007, 11:14 PM	#151
Cringer Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edinburg,TX	Yeah you are correct. Favre can't play under pressure. He crumbles. Barely better then, say, Rex Grossman. __________________ You Stole Fizzy Lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and steralized, so you get NOTHING! You lose!

10-07-2007, 11:50 PM	#155
Cringer Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edinburg,TX	And one more comment, about Favre in tonight's game. I take it you prefer he throw risky passes downfield into coverage instead of taking what was given to him? It wasn't a great drive by any means, but atleast they had a chance at the end instead of Favre throwing downfield to someone earlier in the drive and getting picked off then because of double coverage. I won't blame Favre for blowing that final drive because he did those short passes under the coverage. Watching on TV, I was unable to see all of the coverage downfield and if anyone was open or not. Maybe you could though. __________________ You Stole Fizzy Lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and steralized, so you get NOTHING! You lose!

10-07-2007, 11:52 PM	#156
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I think Brett Favre is the greatest quarterback of all time. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

10-08-2007, 06:25 AM	#160
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	I do believe the ugliness (off-field variety) may eventually match the ugliness (on-field variety). Alge Crumpler pretty well went off on/about Petrino in today's paper. http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/sha...rust_cr_1.html “I’ve never been in a game where we had that many opportunities — and a miracle, with a [botched] punt — and we still couldn’t score,” tight end Alge Crumpler said. “When we cross the 50, we’re the worst offense in the National Football League. “We’re trying to trust them. They keep telling us, ‘Trust us, trust us.’ We’ve been trying to trust them the whole time.” ... “If [the defense is playing] a cover-two and we’ve got Michael Jenkins running down the middle of the field, or myself running down the middle of the field, why aren’t we getting opportunities to make plays?” Crumpler said. “That’s what I’ve been doing my whole career. But I haven’t caught the ball one time since this regime has been here, in practice or anything. So I’m scratching my head. I’m trusting, OK? I’m trusting. But 1-4 makes you think about a lot of things.” FWIW, I believe that's more than I remember hearing from Crumpler the whole time he's been here. And when you're longing for Joey Harrington to be on the field, you know the situation is pretty damned bad. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 10-08-2007 at 06:26 AM.

10-08-2007, 08:12 AM	#163
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	Favre isn't as good as he was in the late 90s, but his body of work should easily rank fairly high. He's 2nd in 4th quarter combacks with 38 (to Elway's 47). His records include: most career NFL touchdown passes (423), most consecutive starts among NFL quarterbacks (242, 262 total starts including playoffs), most career pass completions (5,162), most career pass attempts (8,433), and most career victories as a starting quarterback (151). Favre is second only to Dan Marino (61,361) in NFL career passing yards with 59,027. Of course, to be fair, he also has the INT record with 277. To compare someone with that track record to Jim McMahon seems a little short-sighted. Is he the best? No, not close. Is he top 5? Again, I don't think so. But he should be in the top 10-12 in the same way Walter Payton should be in the top 10-12 in RBs. In his 15 full seasons as a starter, he's averaged 62.5% completions, 3850 yards, 28 TDs, and 16 INTs. To put it in perspective, here are Brady's numbers in his 6 full seasons: 61.5%, 3550 yards, 24.5 TDs and 13 INTs. So, while Favre certainly isn't the best ever, he's been a pretty good QB for 15 seasons with a career QB rating of 85.3 (8 seasons over 90). I understand the reason people like Dime want to knock him (all the media attention he gets, much of it excessive), but when you look at his body of work there are not many QBs in the history of the game that should go above him. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com Last edited by Arles : 10-08-2007 at 08:14 AM.

10-07-2007, 11:45 PM	#154
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	I can't see the Colts

10-08-2007, 06:41 AM	#161
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	The Raiders are now in first place in the AFC West!!

10-08-2007, 08:45 AM	#164
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	To follow up, I look at the TD and INT % per attempt for some of the best passers of all time. I ranked them by difference between the two: Young: 5.5%, 2.6%: +2.9 Montana 5.1%, 2.6%: +2.5 Marino 5.0%, 3.1%: +1.9 Favre 5.0%, 3.3%: +1.7 Tarkington 5.3%, 4.1%: +1.2 Kelly 4.9%, 3.7%: +1.2 Elway 4.1%, 3.1%: +1.0 Moon 4.3%, 3.4%: +0.9 Unitas 5.6%, 4.9%: +0.7 Aikman 3.5%, 3.0%: +0.5 Bradshaw 5.4%, 5.4%: 0 Baugh 6.3%, 6.8%: -0.5 So, when it comes to "risk/reward" of some of the top passers of all time, Favre ranks comfortably fourth behind Young, Montana and Marino. For Young, too, you need to understand he only had 7.5 full seasons as a starter. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com Last edited by Arles : 10-08-2007 at 08:49 AM.

10-08-2007, 11:06 AM	#165
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	I just realized the Raiders are leading their division.

10-08-2007, 11:44 AM	#166
dervack College Prospect Join Date: Jun 2005	Bears fan, figured I would get that out of the way first. In watching that final drive, while I won't say that Brett doesn't deserve some blame for it, but since I truly don't know this, is the Packers center new this year or recently? It looked like Brett was calling for a silent snap a couple of times and the center didn't catch it the first time Brett did it. So, I'm wondering if the center is to blame a little bit too?

10-08-2007, 12:33 PM	#169
Doug5984 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Louisiana	Haven't had the chance to read the entire thread, I made it to the Saints game yesterday and I don't know what happened, or where it went wrong but the team this year, and the team we had last year are two completely different teams. We flat out suck. The game yesterday was ugly. Neither team wanted to win, and last year Payton was a great coach, great play caller (in most games), he couldn't do wrong. Yesterday he couldn't do right. It was pathetic....Horrible game management. Reggie was doing fine running up the middle in the first half with 10 carries for 54 yards (horrible line play). Then we came out in the 2nd half and ran the same toss play 8 times or so and every time he got hit in the backfield by 2 guys. It's going to be a long season for us Saints fans, but on the bright side we can hope for a great draft pick. I think Glen Dorsey would look great in a Saints uniform- give us a great D-Line... I want a defense like the early 90s again.

10-08-2007, 08:09 PM	#176
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	Romo with 2 picks thus far.

10-08-2007, 08:47 PM	#178
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	that was a pretty sweet play

10-08-2007, 08:47 PM	#179
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	Great play by the lineman.

10-08-2007, 08:47 PM	#180
SFL Cat College Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: South Florida	Man, Romo is stinkin' it up tonight.

10-08-2007, 08:49 PM	#182
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	Wow, just wow.

10-08-2007, 08:49 PM	#183
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	LOL! YES!

10-08-2007, 08:50 PM	#184
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Playing vs Romo in two fantasy leagues. AMAZING.

10-08-2007, 08:52 PM	#187
tucker rocky Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Of no particular interest	Over/Under on how many picks Romo throws tonight?

10-08-2007, 08:53 PM	#188
miami_fan Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Land O Lakes FL	who is the backup for Dallas? __________________ "The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946

10-08-2007, 08:53 PM	#189
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Somewhere Ty Detmer is watching intently

10-08-2007, 08:56 PM	#191
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Romo is going to come out and light up the second half and the Cowboys are going to win. Why? because they are annoying and I'm not blessed enough to see the Yankees and Cowboys lose in the same night

10-08-2007, 08:56 PM	#192
Shkspr College Benchwarmer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Amarillo, TX	But hey, he's got three TD passes so far.

10-08-2007, 09:03 PM	#194
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Just got back from school. Ummm...this ain't the score or stat line for Romo that I was expecting to see... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

10-08-2007, 09:06 PM	#195
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	Is that an error or did Folk hit a 73 yd FG?? __________________ Commish of the United Baseball League (OOTP 6.5)

10-08-2007, 09:06 PM	#196
Shkspr College Benchwarmer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Amarillo, TX	Stuck watching the game on NFL.com's Game Center. That FG at the end of the half - that wasn't actually a 73 yarder, was it? Edit: ::Whew:: 47 yards. Scared there for a sec. Last edited by Shkspr : 10-08-2007 at 09:09 PM.

10-08-2007, 09:12 PM	#199
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Anyone want to bet that Trent Edwards is the smartest person in the whole city of Buffalo?

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