Kramer goes crazy - Page 4

Antmeister · 11-21-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SplitPersonality1

Youngster.

When I first heard about this story, my gut reaction was that somebody took something out of context or blew it up way out of proportion. Happens all the time in this PC world of ours.

However, upon viewing the video.....wow.

Is Michael Richards a racist? Probably. At the least there is something from his past that he needs to deal with. If he had used the n-word once or twice to get back at the heckler, I would have chalked it up to stupidity, drunkeness or something else rather forgetable. As someone else mentioned, stringing the words "fifty years ago we'd have you upside-down with a fucking fork up your ass" is not over the top comedy that you improv. In my opinion it has to come from something much deeper.

Now, will I turn the channel when "Kramer" shows up on a Seinfeld rerun. No. I'm just kind of disappointed with the guy and I hope he confronts and beats whatever demons that are haunting him.

And I'm with Antmeister. I am Black, not Afro-American (haven't had an Afro since '78

), not African-American (my family hasn't been in Africa since the 1840's as far as I know)....Black.

Hell, I love to confuse people and tell them that I am an Irish-American. My great-grandfather lived in Ireland for about thirty years before he came back to the states so technically it's correct.

Wow, A SplitPersonality sighting. Haven't seen you post for a while. At least not in the threads I look at. And yet I found another Black guy who watches Seinfeld.

But, yeah, I agree, I am disappointed in what transpired, but at least I would give him credit for not having a scripted apology. It made it seem more sincere and he just needs to get help for his family and friends' sake. Especially the family who will have this over this head for no fault of their own.

Anthony · 11-21-2006, 10:12 PM

get help for what?

racism isn't a disease, it's an opinion. he's allowed to have his. unfortunately he's a "celebrity" so he's not allowed to express his opinion. but i'm not seeing what the need is for "help". he's not sick. just picked a wrong time to let a certain side of him reveal itself.

Antmeister · 11-21-2006, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

It is my impression that such has become standard practice in journalism.

I think it's just the opposite impression - it has become a term that they want you to say. I also think many (of all races) do not like it being brought up all of the time (esp. when one ask a stupid question like "how long have you been an african-american QB?"). As your impression that it doesn't make much sense to bring up Welsh-American, having ancestors from Africa (as long as it's not Egypt, Morocco, Afrikaaner, etc.) doesn't neccesarily imply anything more or less important.

You bring up some good points, but I guess I don't think it is necessary to be something-American. I am American and when one want to describe me they could say I am Black. Hyphenated named always seem to give an impression that you are not fully American, just a hybrid of two cultures or continents.

Joker · 11-21-2006, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Still not as crazy as Crazy Joe Davola.

Is that cherry Binaca I smell?

Antmeister · 11-21-2006, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

get help for what?

racism isn't a disease, it's an opinion. he's allowed to have his. unfortunately he's a "celebrity" so he's not allowed to express his opinion. but i'm not seeing what the need is for "help". he's not sick. just picked a wrong time to let a certain side of him reveal itself.

Of course you can get help. It is also called getting better control of your anger issues,

SplitPersonality1 · 11-21-2006, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister

Wow, A SplitPersonality sighting. Haven't seen you post for a while. At least not in the threads I look at. And yet I found another Black guy who watches Seinfeld.

But, yeah, I agree, I am disappointed in what transpired, but at least I would give him credit for not having a scripted apology. It made it seem more sincere and he just needs to get help for his family and friends' sake. Especially the family who will have this over this head for no fault of their own.

Hehe. I've been very busy the last year or so with a new job. I've been reduced to lurking lately.

You and I have way too many similarities. Black, database guys that play sports sims. Now we can add Seinfeld to the list.

Anthony · 11-21-2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister

Of course you can get help. It is also called getting better control of your anger issues,

i didn't see anyone get physically hurt.

what, you never had out of character outbursts? you don't lose your top and regret it later?

here, here's a rock - cast the first stone.

cuervo72 · 11-21-2006, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbd1963

I'm guessing that he fired in the same manner, but used a different weapon. He knew bullets were harmful (which most of us do), and he used them as ammo.

If you want to substitute words to make that analogy, then what we're discussing in this thread is the difference between manslaughter and murder. The end result is the same, the background is up for debate.

What I said earlier - I'm guessing that he blows his top in cases where the guy isn't black. We'll never know for sure. But if he had a lower tolerance solely because this guy happened to be black, then that's racism.

Antmeister · 11-21-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

i didn't see anyone get physically hurt.

what, you never had out of character outbursts? you don't lose your top and regret it later?

here, here's a rock - cast the first stone.

Sorry, I don't think this theory holds. He has been a comedian for a long.....time. You can't tell me this is the first time he has been heckled before and I bet that he dealt with those incidents in a completely different manner.

So there is something going on in his life at this time that got him to go into that rage. I didn't mean to infer that he had anger issues all his life.

You see a number of actors fall out of the spotlight and for whatever reason can't deal with the fact that they may never get back. Was this the case for him? I don't know. Are there things going on in his life and this heckling just became the last straw? Who knows. But what I am saying is that he has to deal with whatever issue is bothering him now.

I really can't see how saying that I hope someone gets help is casting a stone, but then again I don't live in the mind of HellAtlantic.

cartman · 11-21-2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

i didn't see anyone get physically hurt.

what, you never had out of character outbursts? you don't lose your top and regret it later?

here, here's a rock - cast the first stone.

Sorry HA, but this wasn't a "no blood, no foul" situation. Things were escalating pretty quickly there, and there was a definite chance of that thing turning into a mini-riot if it didn't end when it did.

JeffNights · 11-21-2006, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

i didn't see anyone get physically hurt.

what, you never had out of character outbursts? you don't lose your top and regret it later?

here, here's a rock - cast the first stone.

PWNED

WVUFAN · 11-21-2006, 10:55 PM

Wow -- a fairly rational discussion on race. Congrats to you all -- on most boards this would have escalated to a huge flame war by now.

JeffNights · 11-21-2006, 10:59 PM

Actaully, in my opinion he only used one N-word actually that he didnt try to make it into his bit...and thats after he was called a cracka and a fucking white boy....and even that was with the gah at the end instead of the ger.

sterlingice · 11-21-2006, 11:18 PM

I've always thought racial slurs to be more descriptive than anything. That said, I also realize very few people see it that way so and that's not how the language is used so I never use them. That said, I think there's a minor linguistic threadjack for anyone wanting to head that direction.

To clarify, I do tend to distinguish by gender when describing the actions of someone not nice, if I want a stronger connotation. If a guy does it, he's an "asshole", if a girl does it, she's a "bitch". Does this mean I think all men have a tendency towards asshole'ness? All women are bitches? Certainly not. But, in a linguistic sense, if you're trying to tell a story and the gender of the person is a fairly important discriptive fact, you can basically create a meaning "contraction" by using one word for two ideas.

Similarly, there's degrees here- the guy who, say, bumps into me and then doesn't excuse himself- he's a jerk. A guy who spits on my shoe and then slams a door in my face, he's an asshole.

What does this have to do with the above? I'm not saying this is the case with Richards, but what's to say there's not something similar going on. "Dropping an n-bomb" is just a verbal contraction for black + asshole.

Then again, if there's someone so linguistically concerned, they'd also know there are just some words you don't use. So maybe this is all a moot point.

SI

JeffNights · 11-21-2006, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

A guy who spits on my shoe and then slams a door in my face, he's DEAD

SI

Just my small suggestion.

EagleFan · 11-21-2006, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

Sorry HA, but this wasn't a "no blood, no foul" situation. Things were escalating pretty quickly there, and there was a definite chance of that thing turning into a mini-riot if it didn't end when it did.

You can't be serious? It was never anywhere close to a "mini riot". It was one person on stage freaking out and someone off stage reacting by yelling back and walking out. The rest of the was in disbelief and soon walked out. There was never anything close to this "mini riot" that you claim it was on the verge of.

Is that how we need to judge things now? I guess that means that you agree completely with the Iraq war as we were close to a "mini world war" over there. Hey, it's kind of fun using that logic.

Of course by that same logic I should be arrested since I yelled at my daughter for lying to us today. Using cartman's logic that puts me on the brink of child abuse, or "mini child abuse" to use the right phrase.

The wife might ask for a divorce then to since I looked at an attractive woman today. That must make a definite chance of a "mini affair".

Ths issue is nothing more than some pseudo-celebrity blowing up at a heckler.

Was he just revealing his true feelings or just firing back with something that he thought was going to be the most hurtful to that person? I don't know nor do I really care.

Is he a jackass? That's obvious.

Does he have anger issues? Again obvious.

Does this hurt race relations in the country? Hell no, not in the overall picture. It does not change a true racist in either direction. It sure doesn't push anyone on the fence into becoming a racist. It anything it may push them away from it if they see how stupid it sounds when brought into the light.

How does it affect me personally? It doesn't on the surface. If anything it may help. I am not going to be one of those people who are just lying to themselves and say that I have never said something racial. Everyone has at some time in their life but that doesn't make everyone a racist. It's not about the words or the phrases but about the situations. Being friends with people from many differnet races and backgrounds I have often found myself exchanging "racial" jokes back and forth with them. They are all meant in jest and nothing is taken to heart by anyone in the conversation and they are also not done in front of people who won't know our history and thus not know what is really meant (or not meant). To some that would make us all racist, but to hell with that line of thinking. It's not about getting along with this race or that, it's about getting along with individuals. Oh well, label me as you wish and move on with your life however that makes you feel.

Okay, now back to more important things, like my FOF2007 career.

cartman · 11-22-2006, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

You can't be serious? It was never anywhere close to a "mini riot". It was one person on stage freaking out and someone off stage reacting by yelling back and walking out. The rest of the was in disbelief and soon walked out. There was never anything close to this "mini riot" that you claim it was on the verge of.

You must have seen a different video than I did. There were other people starting to shout at the stage besides the two guys heckling. When people are starting to leave en masse, all it takes is for one idiot to pull out a gun or knife, or shout out that someone has a gun or knife for things to turn quickly in a public arena when racial insults are being hurled about.

Logan · 11-22-2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

You must have seen a different video than I did. There were other people starting to shout at the stage besides the two guys heckling. When people are starting to leave en masse, all it takes is for one idiot to pull out a gun or knife, or shout out that someone has a gun or knife for things to turn quickly in a public arena when racial insults are being hurled about.

So because they were black guys, they must've been carrying? Ok, Kramer.*

*My comment about you is just as outlandish as the one you made above.

MJ4H · 11-22-2006, 02:13 PM

He doesn't appear to be singling out black people in his scenario as being the only ones that could pull a weapon to me.

Kodos · 11-22-2006, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

He doesn't appear to be singling out black people in his scenario as being the only ones that could pull a weapon to me.

x2

cartman · 11-22-2006, 03:42 PM

x3

Being an idiot is not confined to any one race, gender, creed, or religious belief. I saw quite a mixed crowd in the video.

Oilers9911 · 11-22-2006, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

get help for what?

racism isn't a disease, it's an opinion. he's allowed to have his. unfortunately he's a "celebrity" so he's not allowed to express his opinion. but i'm not seeing what the need is for "help". he's not sick. just picked a wrong time to let a certain side of him reveal itself.

He obviously has anger issues and THAT you can get help for.

Oilers9911 · 11-22-2006, 04:37 PM

dola

X4, Cartman said ONE IDIOT. Not ONE BLACK IDIOT. Please read closely before you comment.

CraigSca · 11-22-2006, 09:45 PM

Al Sharpton will be able to fix this.

Logan · 11-23-2006, 12:54 PM

Umm...did you guys actually read what I said. I'll quote it again in case you have trouble scrolling up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

So because they were black guys, they must've been carrying? Ok, Kramer.*

*My comment about you is just as outlandish as the one you made above.

MJ4H · 11-23-2006, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

did you guys actually read what I said.

yes.

waltwal · 11-25-2006, 04:28 PM

it's amazing that anyone, racist or not, could be so foolish as to make this type of comment in public. i think tho that people that make these stupid comments in public whether drunk or not probably make them in private and that makes it easier to spout this kind of crap in public. What really bothers me now tho is the damage control. What could Michael Richards be thinking when he thinks that the people to apologize to are Jackson and Sharpton. That's like calling me a "Wop" and then apologizing to Angela Alioto. It just doesn't make sense. He insulted 2 people doesn't it make sense to apologize to them personally?

However now i find that the apology has to be made not only in person but also in the form of a monetary payment. This has the makings of a disaster if Kramer actually does such a thing. He will pay the price for his idiotic outburst but to have to make a monetary apology is plain crazy.

dime · 11-25-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltwal

it's amazing that anyone, racist or not, could be so foolish as to make this type of comment in public. i think tho that people that make these stupid comments in public whether drunk or not probably make them in private and that makes it easier to spout this kind of crap in public. What really bothers me now tho is the damage control. What could Michael Richards be thinking when he thinks that the people to apologize to are Jackson and Sharpton. That's like calling me a "Wop" and then apologizing to Angela Alioto. It just doesn't make sense. He insulted 2 people doesn't it make sense to apologize to them personally?

However now i find that the apology has to be made not only in person but also in the form of a monetary payment. This has the makings of a disaster if Kramer actually does such a thing. He will pay the price for his idiotic outburst but to have to make a monetary apology is plain crazy.

Jackson and Sharpton are probably the best examples of modern entrepenuers who profit from white guilt. They've become millionaires because of the word "racism".

Antmeister · 11-25-2006, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dime

Jackson and Sharpton are probably the best examples of modern entrepenuers who profit from white guilt. They've become millionaires because of the word "racism".

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

TroyF · 11-25-2006, 07:14 PM

HA,

You are entirely wrong. Michael Richards is allowed to hold and express whatever viewpoints he wants.

And the public is allowed to fire back, the comedy club is allowed to tell him he's no longer allowed to perform and everyone can go on their merry way and be happy.

This isn't some "celebrity" thing. Were I to make the same statements where I work, I'd be shown the door with a pink slip. It's unacceptable behavior in ANY workplace that I know of. (other than a secretary for the KKK)

His chosen workplace only made it more public, it didn't change the outcome at all.

SplitPersonality1 · 11-25-2006, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dime

Jackson and Sharpton are probably the best examples of modern entrepenuers who profit from white guilt. They've become millionaires because of the word "racism".

I agree with you and Antmeister on this one. IMO, Sharpton and Jackson have done more harm than good as far as race relations are concerned.

11-21-2006, 10:55 PM	#162
WVUFAN College Starter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Huntington, WV	Wow -- a fairly rational discussion on race. Congrats to you all -- on most boards this would have escalated to a huge flame war by now. __________________

11-21-2006, 11:18 PM	#164
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	I've always thought racial slurs to be more descriptive than anything. That said, I also realize very few people see it that way so and that's not how the language is used so I never use them. That said, I think there's a minor linguistic threadjack for anyone wanting to head that direction. To clarify, I do tend to distinguish by gender when describing the actions of someone not nice, if I want a stronger connotation. If a guy does it, he's an "asshole", if a girl does it, she's a "bitch". Does this mean I think all men have a tendency towards asshole'ness? All women are bitches? Certainly not. But, in a linguistic sense, if you're trying to tell a story and the gender of the person is a fairly important discriptive fact, you can basically create a meaning "contraction" by using one word for two ideas. Similarly, there's degrees here- the guy who, say, bumps into me and then doesn't excuse himself- he's a jerk. A guy who spits on my shoe and then slams a door in my face, he's an asshole. What does this have to do with the above? I'm not saying this is the case with Richards, but what's to say there's not something similar going on. "Dropping an n-bomb" is just a verbal contraction for black + asshole. Then again, if there's someone so linguistically concerned, they'd also know there are just some words you don't use. So maybe this is all a moot point. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

11-22-2006, 03:42 PM	#171
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	x3 Being an idiot is not confined to any one race, gender, creed, or religious belief. I saw quite a mixed crowd in the video. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

11-22-2006, 09:45 PM	#174
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	Al Sharpton will be able to fix this. __________________ She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know?

11-21-2006, 10:12 PM	#152
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	get help for what? racism isn't a disease, it's an opinion. he's allowed to have his. unfortunately he's a "celebrity" so he's not allowed to express his opinion. but i'm not seeing what the need is for "help". he's not sick. just picked a wrong time to let a certain side of him reveal itself.

11-21-2006, 10:59 PM	#163
JeffNights College Prospect Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Michigan	Actaully, in my opinion he only used one N-word actually that he didnt try to make it into his bit...and thats after he was called a cracka and a fucking white boy....and even that was with the gah at the end instead of the ger.

11-22-2006, 02:13 PM	#169
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	He doesn't appear to be singling out black people in his scenario as being the only ones that could pull a weapon to me.

11-22-2006, 04:37 PM	#173
Oilers9911 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2006	dola X4, Cartman said ONE IDIOT. Not ONE BLACK IDIOT. Please read closely before you comment.

11-25-2006, 04:28 PM	#177
waltwal H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Jan 2002	it's amazing that anyone, racist or not, could be so foolish as to make this type of comment in public. i think tho that people that make these stupid comments in public whether drunk or not probably make them in private and that makes it easier to spout this kind of crap in public. What really bothers me now tho is the damage control. What could Michael Richards be thinking when he thinks that the people to apologize to are Jackson and Sharpton. That's like calling me a "Wop" and then apologizing to Angela Alioto. It just doesn't make sense. He insulted 2 people doesn't it make sense to apologize to them personally? However now i find that the apology has to be made not only in person but also in the form of a monetary payment. This has the makings of a disaster if Kramer actually does such a thing. He will pay the price for his idiotic outburst but to have to make a monetary apology is plain crazy.

11-25-2006, 07:14 PM	#180
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	HA, You are entirely wrong. Michael Richards is allowed to hold and express whatever viewpoints he wants. And the public is allowed to fire back, the comedy club is allowed to tell him he's no longer allowed to perform and everyone can go on their merry way and be happy. This isn't some "celebrity" thing. Were I to make the same statements where I work, I'd be shown the door with a pink slip. It's unacceptable behavior in ANY workplace that I know of. (other than a secretary for the KKK) His chosen workplace only made it more public, it didn't change the outcome at all.

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