Lance Armstrong - well ... damn

[PilotMan]

I guess this was coming, and how many TdF titles have been stripped altogether now? How can the race and sport even move forward at all?

UCI agrees to strip Armstrong of his 7 Tour titles - Yahoo! News

GENEVA (AP) — Forget the seven Tour de France victories. Forget the yellow jersey celebrations on the Champs Elysees. Forget the name that dominated the sport of cycling for so many years.
As far as cycling's governing body is concerned, Lance Armstrong is out of the record books.

[MIJB#19]

Cleaning house and getting rid of those that cheated sounds like moving on to me.

Heck, I'm much more concerned about the match fixing in all of European soccer than doping in cycling.

[MIJB#19]

Actually, I'm disappointed that this won't be taken up to CAS to get a final indisputable calling on the situation. That would give it a 'case closed' feel. And at least there's a lesson here that the truth eventually will come out.

In general, cycling already had a bad name and most of those that like it will keep on liking it, whilst those that are skeptic will remain skeptic.

[kcchief19]

Not taking the case to CAS is even more damning. By not referring it, they are saying it's a slam-dunk, no-doubt case.

I was 50/50 on why UCI would do. On the one hand UCI appears to be cleaning house and trying to move forward on the up-and-up. On the other, UCI appears to have been complicit in hiding Armstrong's cheating. If there is a sinister motive in UCI's decision not to send the case to CAS, it would be that they fear further investigation will eventually uncover the shenanigans that took place to keep Armstrong in the clear.

Has anyone heard from Armstrong? His lawyers are the ones who wanted UCI to handle the case all along since USADA was a kangaroo court. Is he going to bash UCI now too?

The one thing I can't imagine is his coming cleaning. He still stands to lose too much money. The company that insured his USPS team bonuses for winning The Tour is talking a lawsuit, as is the British newspaper that settled a libel case with him for alleging he cheated. Lots of speculation that Livestrong may discuss a name change.

If he does, I can only imagine it coming in the most profitable way possible, with a Katie Couric interview where he bares his soul the day before his memoir coming clean is published.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Actually, I'm disappointed that this won't be taken up to CAS to get a final indisputable calling on the situation. That would give it a 'case closed' feel. And at least there's a lesson here that the truth eventually will come out.

In general, cycling already had a bad name and most of those that like it will keep on liking it, whilst those that are skeptic will remain skeptic.

I'm not a cycling guy, but 20 years ago I could have at least named a half dozen great riders and followed Le Tour. After Armstrong won his third Tour and it was apparent he was cheating, I could have cared less.

For the 2013 Tour, I will be more confident the results are on the up-and-up. What cycling needs now is to close the book. Get the cheaters out and make it so punitive no one will want to cheat again, and cycling will bounce back.

[stevew]

Supposedly going to confess to Oprah about doping this week.

[MIJB#19]

5 more days...

[Matthean]

Is that gonna be on Oprah's channel? Because if you admit to doping and no one is there to watch it, does it count?

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Is that gonna be on Oprah's channel? Because if you admit to doping and no one is there to watch it, does it count?

Nice

[Mike Lowe]

This guy is the ultimate ass-hat. Not that I have a shred of proof to show you guys, but I so called it YEARS before and I'm satisfied with myself for that hahaha

[rowech]

Hopefully, somebody has the guts to sue him and his foundation for fraud.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by rowech

Hopefully, somebody has the guts to sue him and his foundation for fraud.

Yes, we should sue an organization that does a lot of good because its founder is turned out to be a fraud in a field (bicycling) that they don't deal in (cancer research).

SI

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by AlexB

And another article which raises a couple of interesting questions...

UK paper may sue Armstrong over libel case | Sports - Home

So Lance will not contest the USADA findings, which means we will not hear a defence. But presumably he would either be forced to defend himself if he was sued by The Times, or otherwise he would have to repay what would likely be hundreds of thousands of pounds.

More Importantly, if the libel decision against The Times was reversed in a court of law, would that pretty much mean de facto he would also be found to have committed perjury, and face jail time?

Originally Posted by bronconick

If he doesn't have British assets and British law isn't as stringent as American law on libel/slander, it's a moot point.

SPEECH Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by rowech

Hopefully, somebody has the guts to sue him and his foundation for fraud.

BBC Sport - Lance Armstrong: Sunday Times sues cyclist for up to £1m

[stevew]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Yes, we should sue an organization that does a lot of good because its founder is turned out to be a fraud in a field (bicycling) that they don't deal in (cancer research).

SI

They would have $0 if not for deceit. So fuck them.

[jeff061]

Yes, look at all the people harmed to help the good cause. We are up to what, 2 or 3 people stressed out by his lawyers?

I'm not saying you have to go ahead and keep supporting it. But to wish it broke as some kind of misguided retribution is idiotic.

[rowech]

So if money is raised for a good cause it doesn't matter how it is raised? I have no doubt all the money raised has been a good thing but every penny to that foundation, every bracelet bought, etc was purchased because of him and his "story." I think most people would be happy to just leave it be because it is doing good but there are going to be people who donated and feel taken because of it. He should be called on it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

They would have $0 if not for deceit. So fuck them.

That exactly where I'm at with it.

IF the rumors about what's coming later this week are true, Livestrong is quite possibly the biggest fraud I can recall in my lifetime. A scam from the very get go.

And if indeed the reports are true, the very least I wish upon Armstrong is that he steps in front of a fucking bus, considerably more generous that I'd actually feel toward him.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by rowech

So if money is raised for a good cause it doesn't matter how it is raised? I have no doubt all the money raised has been a good thing but every penny to that foundation, every bracelet bought, etc was purchased because of him and his "story." I think most people would be happy to just leave it be because it is doing good but there are going to be people who donated and feel taken because of it. He should be called on it.

He personally should be, will be and is being. You have to be a certain type of arse to try and reclaim money from a bone fide charity though, so Livestrong should be left alone, and I think it will be. Regardless of what happens to Lance, how can anyone want to take money from a group that helps cancer sufferers?

[jeff061]

I'm for Armstrong stepping in front of a bus and against taking money from Livestrong.

Wanted to clarify that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by AlexB

He personally should be, will be and is being. You have to be a certain type of arse to try and reclaim money from a bone fide charity though, so Livestrong should be left alone, and I think it will be.

Fuck Livestrong, there's nary a dime collected prior to his recent resignation from the board that isn't attributable to Armstrong's "story". And their primary mission is "awareness", not research, so at this point it seems very likely that the actual primary purpose was to perpetuate the fraudulent story.

Any identifiable dollars should be offered back to the contributor. Any dollars that remain should be distributed among other organizations in the same niche & Livestrong relegated to the dust bin of history -- alongside the slickest liar in the history of the nation -- where it belongs.

Then again, after this week's reportedly upcoming events, I can't imagine there'll be enough money going in there from this point forward for them to keep the doors open very long anyway.

[cschex]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Fuck Livestrong, there's nary a dime collected prior to his recent resignation from the board that isn't attributable to Armstrong's "story". And their primary mission is "awareness", not research, so at this point it seems very likely that the actual primary purpose was to perpetuate the fraudulent story.

Any identifiable dollars should be offered back to the contributor. Any dollars that remain should be distributed among other organizations in the same niche & Livestrong relegated to the dust bin of history -- alongside the slickest liar in the history of the nation -- where it belongs.

Then again, after this week's reportedly upcoming events, I can't imagine there'll be enough money going in there from this point forward for them to keep the doors open very long anyway.

Essentially, while I won't get into what I think of Livestrong as an org, I think you're right on about their future prospects. Their whole fundraising platform was built around Armstrong and there have been rumblings that a major cancer non-profit will go under soon because of lack of cash reserves. I'm thinking that adds up to Livestrong.

[stevew]

There's no way to nail Armstrong on some sort of Rico shit? He should have just shut the fuck up.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Fuck Livestrong, there's nary a dime collected prior to his recent resignation from the board that isn't attributable to Armstrong's "story". And their primary mission is "awareness", not research, so at this point it seems very likely that the actual primary purpose was to perpetuate the fraudulent story.

Any identifiable dollars should be offered back to the contributor. Any dollars that remain should be distributed among other organizations in the same niche & Livestrong relegated to the dust bin of history -- alongside the slickest liar in the history of the nation -- where it belongs.

Then again, after this week's reportedly upcoming events, I can't imagine there'll be enough money going in there from this point forward for them to keep the doors open very long anyway.

Exactly. They aren't funding any research. They are just funding giant Livestrong ads and promoting Lance Armstrong. This was posted earlier in the thread but worth it again.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...-Lab-Rats.html

[Matthean]

Twitter / BillSimmons: FYI: I'm going on Oprah's show ...

FYI: I'm going on Oprah's show on Thursday to finally come clean and confess that I like the Boston teams and Larry Bird.

[molson]

So what's Lance's angle here? Is this all part of some negotiation that will let him take part in cycling competitions? Everyone knows he's guilty, but still, that hardly seems worth it.

[Young Drachma]

Yeah, I don't understand who is advising this dude.

[Matthean]

Total PR move. Oprah won't ask anything hard. He'll get all emotional. People will forgive him, etc.

[CrimsonFox]

Everytime I see the title of this thread it makes me laugh. hehehehehe

[larrymcg421]

The journey of this thread is pretty hilarious.

[CrimsonFox]

we're talking about oprah now...this show writes itself.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by molson

So what's Lance's angle here? Is this all part of some negotiation that will let him take part in cycling competitions? Everyone knows he's guilty, but still, that hardly seems worth it.

PR campaign to try to keep the money coming for endorsement deals and such. People are very stupid, but this is one of the most transparent slimeball PR moves I've ever seen. I hope it fails miserably.

[frnk55]

Originally Posted by jeff061

PR campaign to try to keep the money coming for endorsement deals and such. People are very stupid, but this is one of the most transparent slimeball PR moves I've ever seen. I hope it fails miserably.

+1

[digamma]

From an article I read in the WSJ this week: "You don't go on Oprah to defend yourself, you go to ask for forgiveness."

[molson]

The whole "limited confession" says this is going to be very carefully scripted. I wonder if it's just going to be the old stand-by, "ya, it turns out I was doping, but I didn't know I was doping at the time, I just put my trust in the wrong people."

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by molson

The whole "limited confession" says this is going to be very carefully scripted. I wonder if it's just going to be the old stand-by, "ya, it turns out I was doping, but I didn't know I was doping at the time, I just put my trust in the wrong people."

This is probably the only way I could actually have less respect for Armstrong than I do now.

[Critch]

I'm going with "Yeah, I was doping but everybody was so I was just leveling the field. I wouldnt have doped if everybody else wasnt doing it, I was forced to to compete."

And maybe some crying too.

[spleen1015]

I watched the new 60 Minutes Sports on showtime yesterday and they ran a story about Armstrong.

It is a shame that he doped, but the biggest problem I have with the whole situation is how he was able to intimidate and destroy the people who knew he was doping and tried to get that information out.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

This is probably the only way I could actually have less respect for Armstrong than I do now.

"Also, I never had cancer. Whole thing was a scam."

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

"Also, I never had cancer. Whole thing was a scam."

"I'm not a man, I'm a woman!"

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

"Also, I never had cancer. Whole thing was a scam."

I've never actually ridden a bike before! It was all special effects!

[CrimsonFox]

"My REAL birth certificate says "Kenya"."

[digamma]

Wetzel pretty much nails it.

He did, however, try to destroy some people – their finances, their businesses, their reputations, their names. These are the victims of Lance Armstrong, and the only hope is that Winfrey didn't just let Lance brush aside the truly aggrieved parties or the obvious questions.



Armstrong isn't necessarily a bad guy for doping. He is a bad guy for the way he used his immense power, fame and fortune to attempt to ruin anyone who dared to speak the truth to his avalanche of lies.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

I've never actually ridden a bike before! It was all special effects!

"I'm really an alien test set up to see how humanity will react. I'm sorry, but you failed and we will be destroying your planet"

SI

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Total PR move. Oprah won't ask anything hard. He'll get all emotional. People will forgive him, etc.

I'd thought that the purpose of doing it with Oprah was so he could show the World Anti Doping Agency that he'd come clean in hopes of being reinstated while also hoping that US prosecutors would miss it due to it airing on OWN.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I'd thought that the purpose of doing it with Oprah was so he could show the World Anti Doping Agency that he'd come clean in hopes of being reinstated while also hoping that US prosecutors would miss it due to it airing on OWN.

[bhlloy]

Lol. Seriously Oprah's shilling of this has been completely pathetic. She's amazed at the way he answered her tough questions. She didn't expect that at all! You'll just have to watch it to find out what happens!

Inevitably she will toss him a couple of softballs, he will give noncommittal woe is me answers, we will end with a celebration of all the work he's done for Livestrong and a bunch of people will tune in. He gets sympathy, Oprah gets a brief ratings spike and delays her irrelevance a few more months and we all move on.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

"My REAL birth certificate says "Kenya"."

That would be the guy that finished second in the 2012 Tour de France.

[stevew]

What is the point of all these awareness charities? If you aren't researching, you're wasting money. Everyone knows what the fuck cancer is.

[CrimsonFox]

"I have sexdoll copies of Oprah in my basement"

[CrimsonFox]

"I forced Oprah to abort my children after our torrid affair."