NFL Draft thread 2012

[Warhammer]

The Rams need to take Blackmon with their pick. Ideally, they drop a few spots to do so, but they need a WR more than an OL guy.

Their WR corps is young, plus they have some decent talent there as well. They need to make a play to keep Lloyd, but a corps of Lloyd, Blackmon and Amendola, with Salas as #4 turns WR from a position of weakness to one of strength. Then, run a short passing game to mask the line issues and you have a respectable offense.

The other area they need help is at CB. If they can trade down and address these two areas, they can pick up an OL guy in FA and the team will be most improved in the league at the end of next season.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

The Rams need to take Blackmon with their pick. Ideally, they drop a few spots to do so, but they need a WR more than an OL guy.

Their WR corps is young, plus they have some decent talent there as well. They need to make a play to keep Lloyd, but a corps of Lloyd, Blackmon and Amendola, with Salas as #4 turns WR from a position of weakness to one of strength. Then, run a short passing game to mask the line issues and you have a respectable offense.

The other area they need help is at CB. If they can trade down and address these two areas, they can pick up an OL guy in FA and the team will be most improved in the league at the end of next season.

If RGIII is in the draft, the Rams will be in an excellent position to move down. That said, I don't think they can move down that far and have any hopes of getting Blackmon. If RG3 is off the board, I can't see the Cleveland Browns, who have a horrible WR corps, passing up on Blackmon.

I guess a best case scenario for the Rams is that the Browns fall in love with RG3, get nervous that someone is going to trade up with the Rams and then make the move to do it themselves, perhaps surrendering the 4th pick overall and their first pick in the second round or something.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Doug5984

I never understood throwing a rookie QB onto the field, and then giving up on him so quick. I mean he's a rookie, what do they expect him to do? Go put up elite #s? Give the kid some time. (There are a few exceptions, but they are exceptions)

Edit to expand on this:
If you look at the top QBs in the league, I'm going to go by rating to just get the top 10 guys.

Rodgers - sat 3 years
Brees - sat 1 year, then 2 years of "bad" numbers
Brady - sat 1 year, thrown in 2nd year, good QB rating (first 3 years in the 80s) but didn't throw a whole lot of yards
Romo - sat 3-1/2 years
Stafford - # 1 overall pick, thrown right in, horrible QB rating (61) (injured first 2 years so he did sit a lot also)
Schaub - sat 3 years
Eli - # 1 overall pick, sat 1/2 the year- then really wasn't that great for a few seasons (lower completion %, higher INTs)
Ryan - thrown right in, and has done alright really

Not on that list-
Cam Newton - thrown right in, looked really good actually for being a rookie
Peyton Manning - thrown right in, had a bad first year but they stuck with him and gave him a shot.


So from my pretty much unscientific research shows that- the top QBs were all given some time to develop. A couple were thrown in and had success but I can think of more that were thrown in and did not. Now that's not to say that if you give every QB time they'll develop into a top QB, but it seems to work out better for them.... and just let them play for than a couple seasons before cutting them. Hell look at Alex Smith, he was a "bust" but they stuck with him and while he isn't a great QB you want from the # 1 pick, he's turned into an ok starter... a game manager of sorts, but he's doing better than a lot of other high picks.

Ben Roethlsberger and Sam Bradford both started their rookie years.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

If RGIII is in the draft, the Rams will be in an excellent position to move down. That said, I don't think they can move down that far and have any hopes of getting Blackmon. If RG3 is off the board, I can't see the Cleveland Browns, who have a horrible WR corps, passing up on Blackmon.

I guess a best case scenario for the Rams is that the Browns fall in love with RG3, get nervous that someone is going to trade up with the Rams and then make the move to do it themselves, perhaps surrendering the 4th pick overall and their first pick in the second round or something.

The Browns giving up the ATL first rounder (#22 overall) in addition to the #4 to go to #2 works out perfectly by the old draft value chart. I assume that needs an updating with the new rookie scale, but for discussion purposes that's a pretty good deal for both teams.

[Doug5984]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Ben Roethlsberger and Sam Bradford both started their rookie years.

They did, but all I did was sorted by QB rating and went down the list of highest rated QBs. Like I said a rough estimate of the "top" QBs in the league, most were given a chance to develop.

Bradford has looked okay so far on a horrible team. Time will tell on him. I think he'll end up being fine, but his career rating is still 74.

Roethlisberger is another one that has worked out from starting since day 1- but to me he was in a protected system. He was on a great team, and wasn't asked to do much- he passed for 192 yards a game his first 2 years. But yes, started from day 1 and worked out.

I could go pull an endless list of high pick QBs who were thrown in too early and failed, some of those would have failed no matter what- but I think quite a few could have turned out alright had they been given a chance to sit, learn, and then given a few years.

[Doug5984]

Originally Posted by Logan

The Browns giving up the ATL first rounder (#22 overall) in addition to the #4 to go to #2 works out perfectly by the old draft value chart. I assume that needs an updating with the new rookie scale, but for discussion purposes that's a pretty good deal for both teams.

Seems like a solid trade to me... everyone in the top 4 gets their guy.

Luck # 1, RGIII # 2, Kalil # 3, Blackmon # 4.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Logan

The Browns giving up the ATL first rounder (#22 overall) in addition to the #4 to go to #2 works out perfectly by the old draft value chart. I assume that needs an updating with the new rookie scale, but for discussion purposes that's a pretty good deal for both teams.

I wasn't sure about the draft value, but my first instinct was to add that #22 pick instead of the second rounder. But it does work out well, assuming it's what everyone wants.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Doug5984

They did, but all I did was sorted by QB rating and went down the list of highest rated QBs. Like I said a rough estimate of the "top" QBs in the league, most were given a chance to develop.

Bradford has looked okay so far on a horrible team. Time will tell on him. I think he'll end up being fine, but his career rating is still 74.

Roethlisberger is another one that has worked out from starting since day 1- but to me he was in a protected system. He was on a great team, and wasn't asked to do much- he passed for 192 yards a game his first 2 years. But yes, started from day 1 and worked out.

I could go pull an endless list of high pick QBs who were thrown in too early and failed, some of those would have failed no matter what- but I think quite a few could have turned out alright had they been given a chance to sit, learn, and then given a few years.

Brady and Rodgers also landed on playoff teams. Yates also is benefiting greatly from his supporting cast.

[Crapshoot]

I think that draft value chart is bunk, primarily because it was one team, in one year, and doesn't account for different talent levels, or distributions - ie, a year with 3 star players means the #3 pick has a different value than a year with one star player, for both talent and distribution reasons.

Also, if you're the Browns, why not wait? Who else is trading up for RG III?

[Mike Lowe]

I'll let you all know what the Lions need as soon as I see someone stop/beat the Saints. Until then, I have no idea what they should do

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I think that draft value chart is bunk, primarily because it was one team, in one year, and doesn't account for different talent levels, or distributions - ie, a year with 3 star players means the #3 pick has a different value than a year with one star player, for both talent and distribution reasons.

Also, if you're the Browns, why not wait? Who else is trading up for RG III?

Washington?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

I'll let you all know what the Lions need as soon as I see someone stop/beat the Saints. Until then, I have no idea what they should do

It's hard to judge what will be available around pick #21 or #22, but overall the Lions could use help in the secondary CB/S and it might be time to start looking into infusing some youth on the OL.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Samdari

How are they not giving up on Ponder if they draft another QB? Didn't they draft him 12th thinking they had a chance to get a potential franchise QB? If they draft another one a year later, aren't they at least giving up on the idea that he is that?

They would be giving up on him, and I really don't think the people in charge right now would. And sadly they did reach badly on him at 12 because Rick Spielman thought he could be a franchise QB, which is one reason it's depressing that he got to keep his job this offseason. Hopefully he'll only last one more season, but it will still mean his firing would come two years two late.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

It's hard to judge what will be available around pick #21 or #22, but overall the Lions could use help in the secondary CB/S and it might be time to start looking into infusing some youth on the OL.

+1. DBs and OLs. DBs for no other reason then they need depth even if they don't get a starter. OL because the line is lacking and old in spots. I say lacking because some of the line is the same one that was there when they went 0-16. The line is "better" because the skills players around them got better. Detroit still can't run block consistently for the live of themselves.

[Mike Lowe]

I'd have no problem if the Lions went OL...building on a strength (offense) isn't a bad idea, especially with the way the NFL is evolving right now.

As for the defense, just like in good 'ole FOF, another year together can really help a team gel as a unit!

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

I'd have no problem if the Lions went OL...building on a strength (offense) isn't a bad idea, especially with the way the NFL is evolving right now.

As for the defense, just like in good 'ole FOF, another year together can really help a team gel as a unit!

Brees is a free agent after this season if the Saints don't resign him. That's how you beat the Saints next year, pick up Brees.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Brady and Rodgers also landed on playoff teams. Yates also is benefiting greatly from his supporting cast.

Tom Brady was drafted in 2000, a year the Patriots went 5-11. They were 8-8 the year before and missed the playoffs as well.

[Doug5984]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Brady and Rodgers also landed on playoff teams. Yates also is benefiting greatly from his supporting cast.

Kind of makes my point though- they were successful because they were given time and put in good situations, some of theses busts at QBs aren't busts because they suck, they are busts because they were rushed into bad teams (picking at the top of the draft) and eaten alive. (Some just suck though- and never had a chance in the NFL, JaBustus Russel)

But anyway- that's getting way off track. I think the Vikes should try to build around Ponder (or even Webb) but put talent around them and let them develop. Drafting another QB in the 1st round doesn't improve the roster, it just forces another QB to see the field on a bad team before they are ready. (Same could be said for Gabbert)

[RendeR]

I gotta agree with most of the Bengals speculation so far, GUARD, o my frakking god we need top notch Guards. Followed by secondary players. both corners and safeties. Maybe try to find a pure return guy if something comes up. After that if we can sneak a decent big strong bruiser RB in there I'd be thrilled.

Beyond those positions we're in great shape.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Tom Brady was drafted in 2000, a year the Patriots went 5-11. They were 8-8 the year before and missed the playoffs as well.

Researching it seems I got the Bledsoe/Brady switch mixed up who was injured and who came in as a back up.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

The Rams need to take Blackmon with their pick. Ideally, they drop a few spots to do so, but they need a WR more than an OL guy.

Their WR corps is young, plus they have some decent talent there as well. They need to make a play to keep Lloyd, but a corps of Lloyd, Blackmon and Amendola, with Salas as #4 turns WR from a position of weakness to one of strength. Then, run a short passing game to mask the line issues and you have a respectable offense.

The other area they need help is at CB. If they can trade down and address these two areas, they can pick up an OL guy in FA and the team will be most improved in the league at the end of next season.

I endorse this!

[Matthean]

http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs....56338/34441154

There's one way to hurt your draft stock.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Tide's Kirkpatrick arrested on marijuana charges - CBSSports.com

There's one way to hurt your draft stock.

What a dumbass. You can't stay clean for three months until you become a multi-millionaire?

[JediKooter]

I hope the Chargers draft an All-Pro head coach.

[Racer]

hxxp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/18/the-first-peyton-manning-retirement-report-from-an-unlikely-source/

Rob Lowe, an actor on Parks and Rec, reported that he believes Peyton Manning will announce his retirement today. It's really weird for a report like this to come from someone like this so it'll be interesting to see if ends up being true.

[Ksyrup]

OK, now we're in 3 threads. Ha!

[kingfc22]

And I think it's safe to say the Niners will draft one or two or three WR's.

[B & B]

Originally Posted by Logan

Washington?

Give that man a Ceeeee-gar!

[Matthean]

Even if I think RGIII has a high amount of potential, three 1st and a 2nd is an amazing deal for the Rams.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Even if I think RGIII has a high amount of potential, three 1st and a 2nd is an amazing deal for the Rams.

It is awful.

If RGIII turns out to be something special they wont have any picks to put some pieces around him. They may have found their QB of the future but it may be 6-7 years before they have a winning record.

Correct in it being an amazing deal for the Rams. If they do a good job with these picks they are looking at a very bright future.

[stevew]

The Rams draft like shit, so they could basically have 1000 first round picks and they wouldn't be good.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

It is awful.

If RGIII turns out to be something special they wont have any picks to put some pieces around him. They may have found their QB of the future but it may be 6-7 years before they have a winning record.

Correct in it being an amazing deal for the Rams. If they do a good job with these picks they are looking at a very bright future.

It's the Redskins. I would be willing to guarantee they assume they can sign free agents to fill the voids left by the missing picks.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Correct in it being an amazing deal for the Rams. If they do a good job with these picks they are looking at a very bright future.

It really is amazing. they are basically picking up 3 high draft picks for dropping down 3 spots and will likely still get the guy they wanted this year.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It really is amazing. they are basically picking up 3 high draft picks for dropping down 3 spots and will likely still get the guy they wanted this year.

Indeed.

Not to mention that all of the 3 first rounders will probably be top 10 picks because the Redskins having so many holes to fill. I miss the days when the Redskins were actually good and am beginning to think it wont happen again until Snyder sells the team. The NFC East rivalries were better IMO when the Redskins were a top team.

[EagleFan]

So much for my dream of RG3 in green. I guess I can try to grasp at the Manning straw. (not like I actually thought either of those would happen but it's like dreaming about winning the lottery)

[RedKingGold]

Guys, it's not three first round picks, it's a swap of #2 and #6 plus two extra first round picks.

It's not as much as people are making it out to be.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Guys, it's not three first round picks, it's a swap of #2 and #6 plus two extra first round picks.

It's not as much as people are making it out to be.

And a 2nd round pick this year.

[QuikSand]

I don't really have an independent opinion about RG3, but I also don't think it's fair to say that a team is simply screwed without three early draft picks. We tend to give them credit that what they are leaving on the table would be their next Von Miller and Andre Johnson, but it's also certainly possible that what they are missing out on is Vernon Gholston and Darrius Heyward-Bey. Not that RG3 is any sure thing, and not that high draft picks are not worth a lot - but let's not write off the Redskins ability to make a credible team anytime soon just on this account. (There are so many other ways to discredit the redskins anyway)

[BillJasper]

If you're the Redskins do you call and tell him not to go through the pro day workout?

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

woke up to watch sum sawker and this is all over espn. the nfl really is becoming fof mp.

[OldGiants]

This is like one of the test questions, What Comes Next In the Series?

Heath Shuler, Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell, __________________

And don't copyright 'RGIII' that will soon be available for the next Rufus Gusterman, III to come out of the Tiny Twelve in a year or two.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Logan

The Browns giving up the ATL first rounder (#22 overall) in addition to the #4 to go to #2 works out perfectly by the old draft value chart. I assume that needs an updating with the new rookie scale, but for discussion purposes that's a pretty good deal for both teams.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I wasn't sure about the draft value, but my first instinct was to add that #22 pick instead of the second rounder. But it does work out well, assuming it's what everyone wants.

Heh.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

the talking heads will be all, 'did they pay too much!?!' but the way the cap is now there's a decent pool of starters on the fa market.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I don't really have an independent opinion about RG3, but I also don't think it's fair to say that a team is simply screwed without three early draft picks. We tend to give them credit that what they are leaving on the table would be their next Von Miller and Andre Johnson, but it's also certainly possible that what they are missing out on is Vernon Gholston and Darrius Heyward-Bey. Not that RG3 is any sure thing, and not that high draft picks are not worth a lot - but let's not write off the Redskins ability to make a credible team anytime soon just on this account. (There are so many other ways to discredit the redskins anyway)

I agree with this. Not that the the 4 picks given up would have led to great players, but it severely limits your ability to put talent around RG3...especially considering the Redskins have other holes to fill.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

the talking heads will be all, 'did they pay too much!?!' but the way the cap is now there's a decent pool of starters on the fa market.

I'm not sure Synder would be willing to over pay for aging big name players with little left in the tank.

[BillJasper]

I believe if you think this is a guy that's going to be a star for the next ten to twelve years in a QB sparse league, you pull the trigger and pay the price needed to get him.

But I think they pulled the trigger a bit early, as I didn't see a lot of teams willing to pay through the nose to get him. May have gotten a better deal if they'd been a bit more patient.

[cougarfreak]

I've got a feeling the Redskins and their fans are going to seriously regret this deal. I can't believe Shanahan ok'd this.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

I've got a feeling the Redskins and their fans are going to seriously regret this deal. I can't believe Shanahan ok'd this.

Its Snyder who rules the roost...

[Julio Riddols]

The way I see it, Griffin has the size, the work ethic, mental make-up, the arm, the accuracy, and more than enough athleticism to pretty much guarantee that he will eventually be an outstanding QB. The only thing that can stop him is himself. With that in mind, I think if you can get your hands on a guy with never before seen upside that has the work ethic and attitude of a Robert Griffin III, why not do it? Now give him a stable coaching environment and watch him flourish.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

fans get what they want. snyder sells tickets. shanacorp. keeps the gig for a few more years at least. winwinwin