08-14-2009, 01:00 AM | #151 | |
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lungs, do you know exactly where that 9:111 quote is? I counted 111 lines into Surat 9 and can't find it anywhere.
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08-14-2009, 01:01 AM | #152 | |
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Sweet. It's kind of funny how some of the same 'themes' can be found in the koran, bible and the torah.
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08-14-2009, 01:03 AM | #153 | |
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Bingo. But it is still Gods word. In Jacobs time it was okay for this too happen. There are things I will always question. But I will also believe this is Gods word . |
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08-14-2009, 01:03 AM | #154 |
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I swear to god (YES) that i never quite did figure out why completely nice and intelligent people turn into such fuckwads when they are talking about religion. Fear of death, fear of unkown? Dunno. It all seems to serve a single purpose, and that is to conform their own faith. But i digress...
Now, in most cases the people who go on these illogical, insane tirades are usually the people least informed about the subject they are talking about. Im willing to bet money the original poster has never read the bible. If he did, it was the "King Rick James" -version. But, again, i digress... Now, the point is, people like you, the original poster, are whats wrong with society. No, really. What your essentially saying is "I love everyone and fuck you if you disagree, you fucking murderer". And since this is religion, you choose to not see your own fucking illogicality and lack of common sense. Ever occur to you, that different religions are just fragments of native culture and branches of the same basic belief? You really think if you were born in an Islamic family, that you would fucking ditch it for Jesus? JESUS CHRIST, these people sometimes. A disclaimer: i myself, i do not represent a religion, but i wholly accept all of them. I can pray with a Christian minister like my mother, and right after that, i can kneel towards mecca and pray with my Islamic friend. Neither thinks im wrong, neither think they are wrong, nobody is wrong, and everyone gets to satisfy their humane need for religion in their own way - in a way that makes them feel right. Now that shit there, that is love. Fuck what YOU talking about. You, you havent propably seen this.. Or maybe this IS you? YouTube - My Preacher |
08-14-2009, 01:04 AM | #155 | |
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And in other religions as well. For example, one of the fundamental premises of Wicca and other related neopagan religions is, "Harm none."
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08-14-2009, 01:05 AM | #156 | |
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This is all English so it's called The Immunity [9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement. Here is the Koran I am working with. |
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08-14-2009, 01:08 AM | #157 | |
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? Don't befriend those who try to kill you because of your religion? I guess I don't see a big deal with that. |
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08-14-2009, 01:08 AM | #158 | |
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Im in the process of reading the Bible. NIV. And again I dont think I said anything of the sort about disagreeing. I pray for you. Not F. you. That would be wrong. Fear of death. Nope. Death is sleep. I will evetually wake up in Heavan. Death is the least of my worries. |
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08-14-2009, 01:09 AM | #159 | |
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Ok, let's stick with, 'it is gods word'...If god is infallable, then he/she/it would have known that in the future, it would be against society norms to have more than one wife. So, why have it commited to print if things are going to change? I know the answer, personally, but, I have to ask the question.
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08-14-2009, 01:09 AM | #160 |
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08-14-2009, 01:11 AM | #161 |
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you're inconsistent here. earlier you state that jesus was divine. here you are stating he is not divine. you can't have it both ways.
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08-14-2009, 01:11 AM | #162 | |
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True. I think it's buddism (I could be wrong) where it's, you don't harm any living thing, flies, birds, dogs, etc...
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08-14-2009, 01:12 AM | #163 | |
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God gave us free will. God sees all at all times. There is no future, past or present to Him. Free will is what man uses in all his decisions and actions. God has a plan for us all. But you choose your path. |
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08-14-2009, 01:13 AM | #164 |
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08-14-2009, 01:13 AM | #165 |
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To paraphrase a very wise man (Duffman); The Bible says a lot of things.... Oooooh yeah!
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08-14-2009, 01:13 AM | #166 |
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08-14-2009, 01:15 AM | #167 |
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Tarcone, all I will say is this. You should read the Bible someday. I'm not talking about websites from people who have read the Bible and given you their interpretation. I'm talking about sitting down and reading the Bible on your own. Perhaps it will give you stronger resolve, but you seem to have this belief that the Bible is something it is not.
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08-14-2009, 01:16 AM | #168 |
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08-14-2009, 01:17 AM | #169 | |
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Yeah, that's Buddhist. "All creatures hang from the thread of life with the same urgency, so respect all creatures." or something like that is the best way I've seen it phrased.
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08-14-2009, 01:18 AM | #170 |
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Im going to suggest a book to read. It is a great read. It was written by a hard core atheist. One who found Jesus.
It is very well written and enlightening. Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis If you have any interest in this conversation which some of you do. Check this book out. |
08-14-2009, 01:19 AM | #171 | |
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An impossible goal. Nice.
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08-14-2009, 01:20 AM | #172 | |
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Ah but, there is a past, present and future for us and it is that context and the only context we humans understand and have experienced. Don't get me wrong, would love to get a hold of a Delorean that's a time machine, but, I'm not holding my breath. Free will doesn't exist if god has a plan for us. Sounds like a plot hole if you think about it...regardless of which path you take, you will end up in the place that was already chosen for you. In my opinion, free will would exist if god has a complete and total hands off approach from begining to end.
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08-14-2009, 01:20 AM | #173 | |
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Okay, found it. Here's what my translation (which is from Saudi Arabia and appears to have been put together through extensive and exhaustive work from multiple scholars, so I'd imagine it's pretty good) says: S.9.A.111 - "Allah hath purchased of the Believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise): They fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain: A promise beinding on Him in Truth, through the Torah, The gospel, and th Qur-an: And who is more faithful to his Covenant than Allah?"
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08-14-2009, 01:21 AM | #174 | |
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It's like taking a serial murderer and saying "well he helped out with his local charity a lot". In the end you can't differentiate the two and say that the murdering aspect gets completely ignored. If you believe in that God, you have to believe in the good and bad. You can't just ignore the parts of God you don't like. |
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08-14-2009, 01:21 AM | #175 |
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Not impossible. No one will acheive it until Heaven. the idea is too work and live Christ-like. This my impression. Last edited by tarcone : 08-14-2009 at 01:21 AM. |
08-14-2009, 01:21 AM | #176 | |
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Look, it's getting late and I'll be going around in circles all night if I don't stop soon. So let me get back to the original title of this thread that got me going. 'Jesus is Love. Allah is not.' There is plenty of love from Allah to his believers. They may not go about it in the same way as you do. You may not think it is the right way. But the title of this thread is simply false and I've hope I've educated you a bit, because I know I've educated myself a bit tonight. If Allah was not loving, but a hateful vengeful God commanding his followers to kill non-believers, I think I'd be dead by now due to my association with a few Muslims, as a non-believer myself. Pray for them all you want, it's your prerogative. But don't spew false things about their beliefs. |
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08-14-2009, 01:21 AM | #177 |
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It's bad enough you trash the Koran based on a couple random passages, but if you haven't even finished the damn Bible, what the fuck are we all doing here? Jesus fucking Christ on a stick.
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08-14-2009, 01:22 AM | #178 | |
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Both of our translations seem to be a bit different than tarcone's. Wonder where he got his? |
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08-14-2009, 01:23 AM | #179 | |
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But you have to get there. You can choose which way to go. And maybe Gods plan will change. Plans can change. We cannot begin to understand God. He sees all, all the time. Time is a man made tool. |
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08-14-2009, 01:23 AM | #180 | |
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Actually, from what I remember, C.S. Lewis was originally Catholic and converted to Anglicism, which greatly upset J.R.R. Tolkien. I don't recall anything about his being atheist. I could be wrong, though.
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08-14-2009, 01:25 AM | #181 | |
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Through someone who played re-arrange with the words to create a different slant and meaning, it looks like.
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08-14-2009, 01:25 AM | #182 |
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08-14-2009, 01:27 AM | #183 | |
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How do you know Jesus doesn't recant all his prior lessons and start killing hobos around page 1272?
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08-14-2009, 01:27 AM | #184 |
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Tarcone,
Your persistance on this subject is to be admired. if you are truly in the process of learning and questioning as you claimed you are, why not enlist a friend who is not affiliated with either (or any) religion. Have him or her pick up a dozens of verses from both the Bible and Koran. Also have him/her change those give-away words (like Jesus), type them up in a uniform way, re-order all the verses and let you read them. You may be surprised to see more commonalities than differences between these, and you may be even more surprised at yourself not be able to tell which verses are from which with accuracy. |
08-14-2009, 01:30 AM | #185 |
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COME ON.
If you're going to recommend a CS Lewis book, at least recommend The Chronicles of Narnia.
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08-14-2009, 01:30 AM | #186 | |
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Right, you have to get there, but, if it's already known to god where you are going to go...see what I'm getting at? I'll have to disagree with you on the change of plans though. If god can change his/her/its mind, then maybe he/she/it is wrong about gays and gay marriage or may change his/hers/its mind? Not trying to change the subject to gay marriage, just using it as an example. I thought understanding god, was one of the reasons for the bible? Time is definitely a tool and so are some men.
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08-14-2009, 01:32 AM | #187 |
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08-14-2009, 01:33 AM | #188 | |
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All I know is Jesus will return next week to sign for this ladies new car...
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hxxp://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/specials/weirdflorida/blog/2009/08/emma_kimtashis_harrison_25_wal.html
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08-14-2009, 01:33 AM | #189 |
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I think tool was the wrong word to bring up at this point.
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08-14-2009, 01:34 AM | #190 |
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[9:111] GOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of GOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph.
Here is another from the authorized English translation of the Koran. |
08-14-2009, 01:35 AM | #191 | |
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That is some quality writing right there. I wonder how many resumes get sent in when that dealership puts out a "wanted: financial guy" ad?
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08-14-2009, 01:36 AM | #192 | |
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Funny, it references the Jewish, the Christian and the Muslim holy books in this verse. |
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08-14-2009, 01:36 AM | #193 | |
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Authorized by who? That's a terrible translation.
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08-14-2009, 01:37 AM | #194 |
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08-14-2009, 01:38 AM | #195 |
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Of course you are.
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08-14-2009, 01:38 AM | #196 | |
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The point shouldn't be that one is better than the other, it should be that they were books written many years ago that are outdated and should have no bearing on society. |
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08-14-2009, 01:39 AM | #197 | |
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Free will. It is your decision to sin. If you sin and not truly believe in Jesus, you go to Hell. If you renounce your sins and believe. You go to Heavan. |
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08-14-2009, 01:39 AM | #198 |
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08-14-2009, 01:40 AM | #199 | |
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It's actually a pretty bad translation. It doesn't read like a native Arabic speaker translated it.
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08-14-2009, 01:41 AM | #200 | |
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So Love and caring and charity have no bearing on society? Therein lies the problem. |
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