2006 NBA Draft/Offseason Thread

[stevew]

Andre Miller is a really good player. I wish they would have been able to keep him, instead of trading him for Dumbass Miles.

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I like Andre Miller's game a LOT. I would be all for that move.

I agree, D. West could then play either pg or sg for the second unit.

[rkmsuf]

You could argue the Delonte West if healthy is almost a wash with Miller. And West is a better shooter.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

You could argue the Delonte West if healthy is almost a wash with Miller. And West is a better shooter.

Miller is a horrible 3 point shooter, but otherwise his numbers are comparable or better. Miller averages about 4 more assists a game. I guess West could get to that level with a bit more work.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by stevew

Miller is a horrible 3 point shooter, but otherwise his numbers are comparable or better. Miller averages about 4 more assists a game. I guess West could get to that level with a bit more work.

I say give West the minutes. They don't need to take on Miller's salary and give up whatever they would have to give up to get him.

The only thing that concerns me about West is durability. Otherwise he's fine.

[st.cronin]

I don't like West that much. I don't see him as a starting point guard on a good team.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I say give West the minutes. They don't need to take on Miller's salary and give up whatever they would have to give up to get him.

The only thing that concerns me about West is durability. Otherwise he's fine.

Still, one's a pg on a playoff team, and the other on a lottery team.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by stevew

Still, one's a pg on a playoff team, and the other on a lottery team.

So? Kid was essentially a rookie last year.

I say trade Pierce anyway...but that's just me. By the time the C's get any good he'll be broken down. And we've pretty much established he isn't a #1 type guy and struggles mightily to fit into a #2 role. He's essentially useless in their quest to be a title contender. Trade him while you can get something for him.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I say trade Pierce anyway...but that's just me. By the time the C's get any good he'll be broken down. And we've pretty much established he isn't a #1 type guy and struggles mightily to fit into a #2 role. He's essentially useless in their quest to be a title contender. Trade him while you can get something for him.

I agree with you here.

[Karlifornia]

Richard Jefferson is a great player. I believe Sublime 2 said that he benefits purely because of the Kidd effect. While Kidd makes any player better, Jefferson's athletic ability is nearly unmatched. I was fortunate to see enough to be able to catch his games when he played at Arizona. He, like Gilbert Arenas, was often the best, and most athletic player on the floor.

Arizona's players are amazing, more often than not.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I like Andre Miller's game a LOT. I would be all for that move.

Hmmmm.... I like Miller's game from a numbers standpoint and think he would make the Celtics better, but he has a mad ugly game. Between him and Pierce I don't know if I could stand to watch any games.

[bulletsponge]

According to Chad Ford the Nuggets are looking to deal K-Mart (to TWolves or Knicks) and Andre Miller (to the Celtics). They want to clear cap and move up in the draft. Miller is better than any of the PGs in this draft so I'm not completely against it as a Celtics fan.

K-mart to the knicks, omg that would be so funny if it happened

[Swaggs]

Maybe I will declare myself an NBA free agent fan and follow whoever drafts Gansey and/or Pittsnogle.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

K-mart to the knicks, omg that would be so funny if it happened

Andre Miller to the Knicks would almost make more sense. Then they could play:

pg Miller
sg Marbury
sf Francis
pf Frye
c Curry

That lineup might actually work.

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Hmmmm.... I like Miller's game from a numbers standpoint and think he would make the Celtics better, but he has a mad ugly game. Between him and Pierce I don't know if I could stand to watch any games.

I'm confused, what's so ugly about Pierce's game?

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Andre Miller to the Knicks would almost make more sense. Then they could play:

pg Miller
sg Marbury
sf Francis
pf Frye
c Curry

That lineup might actually work.

they might win 20 games

[Coffee Warlord]

The Knicks REALLY want that 1st overall pick next year. I support them fully in their quest.

....so they can give it right to the Bulls.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

I'm confused, what's so ugly about Pierce's game?

It's gotten better last season, but the one on one iso, 8 pump fakes, drive, get fouled and throw both hands up not even attempting to go for the and 1 move. Kinda like D-Wade in the finals (or LeBron/Arenas before that.)

Don't get me started on Wally. If there was video of KG punching him out at practice I would have it as my screensaver.

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

It's gotten better last season, but the one on one iso, 8 pump fakes, drive, get fouled and throw both hands up not even attempting to go for the and 1 move. Kinda like D-Wade in the finals (or LeBron/Arenas before that.)

Don't get me started on Wally. If there was video of KG punching him out at practice I would have it as my screensaver.

I think part of the 1v1 iso crap from a couple years ago was due to the fact he had no trust in his teammates, nor did he have any reason to trust them. I think Pierce is at his best when he's attacking the rim, he goes as hard as anyone (save maybe AI) to the rack, and draws a lot of fouls.

Wally, when healthy, is certainly not the best #2 option but I think he's a good deal better than Ricky Davis was.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

Andre Miller is a really good player. I wish they would have been able to keep him, instead of trading him for Dumbass Miles.

Absolutely. I loved Miller when he was here. Cleveland has had a number of PGs I've really liked over the years. Price-Brandon-Knight-Miller... and now, I'd love to have either of those last two back.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

I think part of the 1v1 iso crap from a couple years ago was due to the fact he had no trust in his teammates, nor did he have any reason to trust them. I think Pierce is at his best when he's attacking the rim, he goes as hard as anyone (save maybe AI) to the rack, and draws a lot of fouls.

Oh, I don't blame him at all. For all the shit he (and Antoine) got for iso'ing it gave the team the best chance to win - and will in the future if they keep calling touch fouls on every drive. But what's best for the team isn't always what's most exciting and it's not fun to watch. Any player who scores more than half his points at the free throw line is a sympton of what is wrong with the NBA and why my interest in it has been declining compared to college.

[miami_fan]

Andrea Bargnani
LaMarcus Aldridge
Tyrus Thomas
Adam Morrison
Brandon Roy
Rudy Gay
Shelden Williams
Randy Foye
Marcus Williams
J.J. Redick
Cedric Simmons
Patrick O'Bryant
Ronnie Brewer
Rodney Carney
Hilton Armstrong

Why do I get the feeling that J.J. is going to get the Aaron Rodgers treatment?

[miami_fan]

Is this the sign of the Raptors picking Andrea Bargnani?

Associated Press


TORONTO -- The Toronto Raptors hired Maurizio Gherardini, who built one of the most successful professional basketball teams in Europe, as the club's vice president and assistant general manager Thursday.

The Italian Gherardini becomes the first European to hold a senior management position with an NBA franchise.

"We are thrilled to have a globally esteemed basketball executive like Maurizio Gherardini join the Toronto Raptors," Raptors president and GM Bryan Colangelo said in a statement. "This is a ground-breaking move for the league, appropriately with the NBA's only true international franchise."

And next week, the Raptors might select one of his Benetton Treviso players with the first pick in the draft.

Andrea Bargnani led Gherardini's former team Benetton Treviso to the Italian Lega A championship earlier this week. The 6-foot-11 star forward is expected to be among the first few names picked in next Wednesday's NBA draft.

"We have enjoyed an unbelievable season, we just won the championship two nights ago and Andrea Bargnani of course was a key element for such a success," Gherardini said . "I know pretty much the kind of player and the kind of person he is."

"On the other hand, right now the question is the best decision the Raptors can make in the draft coming up."

Gherardini built Benetton Treviso into one of the most recognizable basketball organizations outside the NBA.

The 51-year-old led Benetton to four league championships, seven Italian Cups, three Italian supercups, two Eurocups and four appearances in the Euroleague's final four.

Gherardini joined Benetton in 1992, and under his guidance, the club's become a training ground in Europe and a destination for NBA personnel to scout players.

[ThunderingHERD]

Interesting post on Chad Ford's blog today:

Promises for Aldridge and Roy?posted: Thursday, June 22, 2006 | Feedback | Print Entry

Michael Jordan got a rude welcome back to the NBA on Thursday.

It was his first full day in Charlotte as co-owner of the Bobcats, and he had planned a big predraft workout with Tyrus Thomas, LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay.

Michael was there. But of the four prospects, only Gay showed.

According to the Bobcats, Thomas (groin), Aldridge (ankle) and Roy (hamstring) all claimed injuries kept them from working out for His Airness.

However, injuries apparently were not the real reason, at least for Aldridge and Roy.

Arn Tellem, who is the agent for both Aldridge and Roy, told me Thursday evening that while Roy had "a slight hamstring issue," injuries were not the reason his clients didn't show.

"They didn't show because I'm very comfortable where they're going in the draft," Tellem said.

Asked if that meant that a specific team had committed to taking them, Tellem said, "I know where they're going, yes."

As you would expect, Tellem wasn't as forthcoming about exactly which teams would select Aldridge and Roy, but he did tell me that both players were done working out.

But why not work out for the No. 3 team in the draft?

Does that mean Aldridge and Roy are going No. 1 and No. 2?

Not necessarily, according to Tellem.

"I've never been caught up on the number of where a guy goes," Tellem said. "It's about finding the right situation for our clients. In this case, we've found a good fit for both of them, so there's no need for them to work out for anyone else."

Does that mean Tellem would discourage other teams from drafting Aldridge or Roy?

"I don't think it will get to that," Tellem said. "Both are going very high. But if that needs to happen, I'll do it."

Considering the rumors that Thomas already has a promise (which his agents vehemently deny), something strange is happening.

How can all of these guys have promises?

Combine those reports with Tellem's confirmation of the rumor that Duke's Shelden Williams also has a "high promise," and that means three or four guys are off the board in the early stages of the lottery, potentially.

If the reports are true, either someone took a promise later in the lottery than expected or one of these guys thinks he's going higher than he is.

Even if you doubt Thomas has a promise, you still have to fit those other three into the picture somewhere at the top, if they indeed have promises.

Here's what we think we know:

Toronto said as of late Wednesday that its decision was still "wide open." I don't think the Raptors have promised anyone anything -- it wouldn't make much sense for the team holding the No. 1 pick to have made a promise.

Also on Wednesday, a Bulls source denied making a deal with Thomas and said they were still deciding what to do with the No. 2 pick.

Certainly it appears the Bobcats, picking No. 3, haven't made a promise. To think they've made a promise to Aldridge or Roy, we'd have to believe they had Jordan come down to Charlotte and go through an elaborate ruse with the the complicity of several players and agents.

The Blazers, who have the No. 4 pick, have been widely thought to be after Adam Morrison, not Aldridge or Roy.

The Hawks, holding the No. 5 pick, are widely believed to be the team that has made a promise to draft Williams.

All in all, it's far from clear what this new information from Tellem means for the draft.

I can only speculate, but here are three scenarios that make some sense:

1. Let's say the Bulls have decided to draft Roy at No. 2 or they've agreed to a trade and are taking Roy for another team. The Lakers have been after Roy and there's been a lot of speculation about Lamar Odom coming to Chicago in such a trade.

And let's say the Blazers have decided that getting an interior presence like LaMarcus Aldridge, who can play some center, is more important drafting than a fan favorite like Adam Morrison. Aldridge, in this scenario, would know he's not going to Chicago and would figure he can get more playing time in Portland than in Charlotte, which has a crowded frontcourt.

2. Or the situation could be reversed, with the Bulls deciding to take Aldridge and the Blazers wanting Roy. But in that scenario, I can't understand why Roy or his agent would think that the Blazers would be a better fit than the Bobcats.

3. There has been talk of Houston moving up a few spots in the draft to No. 5 or No. 6 in exchange for Luther Head and the No. 8 pick. If that happens, the Rockets could be moving up to nab Roy. Remember, his agent, Tellem, also negotiated the trade that got Tracy McGrady, another Tellem client, to Houston, and Tellem may be trying to deliver another vital player to help T-Mac in his title quest.

Tellem's information adds up to a potential problem for Charlotte, which might have to either select between players who haven't worked out for Jordan -- including Aldridge, Roy, Thomas and Morrison -- or take Rudy Gay, who has worked out for Jordan but is thought not to be his first choice.

In fact, Thursday's turn of events was enough to tick off Bobcats GM Bernie Bickerstaff, who said he was "frustrated" by the wave of cancelations.

"Bottom line, we're just not happy with the way things went down,'' he told the Charlotte Observer.

The draft just got a whole lot more mysterious, folks.

[stevew]

Cavs supposedly gave a first round promise to PG Daniel Gibson from Texas. At least that's what the rumor for him is. And why he stayed in the draft.

[miami_fan]

I don't know why but the thought of MJ conducting a workout and being the final authority on this year's draft bothers me. I understand that he is now the boss in the Bobcats organization but it would seem that it is a bit late in the process for him to be involved. Of course he could have been evaluating talent and studying game film on the draftees. That just seems unlikely to me.

[bulletsponge]

i heard the draft was soon? when is the draft happening?

[miami_fan]

Wednesday at 7et

[stevew]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I don't know why but the thought of MJ conducting a workout and being the final authority on this year's draft bothers me. I understand that he is now the boss in the Bobcats organization but it would seem that it is a bit late in the process for him to be involved. Of course he could have been evaluating talent and studying game film on the draftees. That just seems unlikely to me.

Eh, He's in a race with Isiah to see how many franchises he can ruin.

[sterlingice]

That whole Chad Ford piece was just a bit freaky. "I have promises for my guys so they won't go work out for another team that could pick them"

SI

[Groundhog]

It's not that mysterious. What Tellem has done is just raised the draft stock of a few players; Shelden Williams most of all.

[stevew]

The difference in the rookie salary scale are not that substantial. If you can get your guy definitely going somewhere, a good situation, it's probably worth forgoing a couple hundred grand a year you'd get by getting picked one or two spots earlier.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by stevew

The difference in the rookie salary scale are not that substantial. If you can get your guy definitely going somewhere, a good situation, it's probably worth forgoing a couple hundred grand a year you'd get by getting picked one or two spots earlier.

Yeah, but the whole point of the draft is so that bad teams get better by getting the best players. Not so that an agent can find his clients the best spots for them.

SI

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Yeah, but the whole point of the draft is so that bad teams get better by getting the best players. Not so that an agent can find his clients the best spots for them.

SI

Exactly, which is why most GMs are probably ignoring this nonsense. If I were GM of the Bobcats I wouldn't care what this agent is saying. You may not have got the chance to get a workout with these guys, but you know who the top 5 players in the draft are; just take the one you want the most and don't give a rat's ass what their agent has planned.

[ThunderingHERD]

Looks like Tellem is trying to get Roy in Houson:

Tyrus Thomas met with Rockets officials in Houston on Friday. On Saturday, Brandon Roy is flying into town for a workout.

That's interesting news for a team slated to draft No. 8 -- well below where both players are projected to go.

It's especially interesting for Roy, considering his agent, Arn Tellem, told us on Thursday that Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge were shutting down the rest of their workouts because, Tellem said, he was "very comfortable where they're going in the draft."

Asked if that meant that a specific team had committed to taking them, Tellem said, "I know where they're going, yes."

Why the reversal? Or is it a reversal at all?

Insider first reported on Thursday that there has been talk of Houston's moving up a few spots in the draft to No. 5 or No. 6 in exchange for Luther Head and the No. 8 pick.

Roy was caught by a reporter from the Seattle Times in the airport late Thursday and basically confirmed the story.

"It's kind of a last-minute decision,'' Roy said. "[Houston] is trying to work a trade to get into the top five or six and they want to see me one last time.''

It's easy to see why Tellem would want Roy in Houston -- even if it means slipping a few spots in the draft.

The Rockets have a need, and the team should be a winner if Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming stay healthy. The fact that McGrady is also a client of Tellem, who would like to help T-Mac win a title, is also a factor.

Friday evening, I talked to a Rockets source, who confirmed they have been trying to move up in the draft.

"We've talked to teams about moving up, down and out of the draft completely," the source told me. "Would we like to move up to grab a guy like Thomas or Roy? Sure. I'm just not sure if it's going to be possible."

So were the Rockets the team that made a promise to Roy?

"We don't do promises," the source said. "We just don't believe in them."

Even if true, that doesn't mean that Tellem and the Rockets aren't trying to make something happen.

But if it does, we probably won't know about it until the draft begins and we find out if Roy is available at No. 5 or No. 6.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Yeah, but the whole point of the draft is so that bad teams get better by getting the best players. Not so that an agent can find his clients the best spots for them.

SI

The agent is doing his job, which is to put his client in the best possible situation. Whatever the point of the draft is or is supposed to be, is irrelevant. If a team wants a guy, they can still take him. If the guy doesn't want to be in a particular situation, he can try to get out. I'm sure you are very familiar with a high profile draft selection crying in order to get out of a "franchise" he did not want to be in.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by stevew

The agent is doing his job, which is to put his client in the best possible situation. Whatever the point of the draft is or is supposed to be, is irrelevant. If a team wants a guy, they can still take him. If the guy doesn't want to be in a particular situation, he can try to get out. I'm sure you are very familiar with a high profile draft selection crying in order to get out of a "franchise" he did not want to be in.

Ugh, yeah That never did sit well with me. Then again, anyone draft jumping (see: Manning, Eli, et al) just bugs me. Go play for the damn team that drafted you and if you don't like it, you can change in a few years.

SI

[law90026]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Ugh, yeah That never did sit well with me. Then again, anyone draft jumping (see: Manning, Eli, et al) just bugs me. Go play for the damn team that drafted you and if you don't like it, you can change in a few years.

SI

I dunno. While I dislike the fact that some rookies use their clout or threats to get out of a situation they don't like, it's not totally stupid on their parts.

American Football: No. 1 Draftpicks who are QBs often suffer. Their team sucks, more often than not they get beaten up badly because of a poor O-line, and they are over scrutinised. All this for a few more million dollars? I think it's valid to consider whether it's worth it.

NBA: Picked to play on a lousy team if you're a high draft pick. How often does this work out though? Some players become burdened with expectation and never pan out (though perhaps its partly bad scouting). A wise rookie might consider being taken a little lower to learn from vets.

More importantly, drafts are totally not akin to the real world, where one can choose where to work. In essence, an athlete is being force to work for an employer, whether he likes them or not. It's just a little odd to me and I can see why an athlete might not be happy going to a particular place.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by law90026

I dunno. While I dislike the fact that some rookies use their clout or threats to get out of a situation they don't like, it's not totally stupid on their parts.

American Football: No. 1 Draftpicks who are QBs often suffer. Their team sucks, more often than not they get beaten up badly because of a poor O-line, and they are over scrutinised. All this for a few more million dollars? I think it's valid to consider whether it's worth it.

NBA: Picked to play on a lousy team if you're a high draft pick. How often does this work out though? Some players become burdened with expectation and never pan out (though perhaps its partly bad scouting). A wise rookie might consider being taken a little lower to learn from vets.

More importantly, drafts are totally not akin to the real world, where one can choose where to work. In essence, an athlete is being force to work for an employer, whether he likes them or not. It's just a little odd to me and I can see why an athlete might not be happy going to a particular place.

I think the bolded part is the most important tho for reasons different than you stated. I'm sorry, but I just don't have much sympathy for a rookie coming out and having to play somewhere for a couple of years. The point of view above seems to take only the player's point of view into account.

Yes, they might be forced to play somewhere where they are not happy. Doesn't matter- that's the rules and there's a reason they are set up that way and it's for the good of the league. You're the new guy in the league and on the team so you get to abide by them. As the new guy who's not the most full fledged union member, who hasn't put in his time- you're subject to the more stringent rules and they're not overly oppressive. If your situation is bad, you can change it in a couple of years, but as a draftee, you go where you're supposed to go. No "I won't play or have crazy demands because I'm going to a bad team or something that's not a perfect fit".

SI

[Logan]

Originally Posted by law90026

More importantly, drafts are totally not akin to the real world, where one can choose where to work. In essence, an athlete is being force to work for an employer, whether he likes them or not. It's just a little odd to me and I can see why an athlete might not be happy going to a particular place.

Not entirely true. An athlete chooses to work for an employer (NBA), who then assigns them to a team through its draft process. If someone wanted to, there are other leagues they could go play in where they would essentially be a free agent right away.

Just making the point...

[Sublime 2]

Latest rumor I've heard is that the Sixers had contacted the Celtics about a possible trade, somehow Utah got involved as well:

Celtics receive:
Allen Iverson

Sixers receive:
Carlos Boozer

Utah receives:
Wally Szczerbiak

There would obviously be other players involved, but I'm not sure how I (as a C's fan) would feel. I do like AI, but I'd have to hope he wouldn't stunt the growth of our young guys. To me it seems that Utah loses out talent-wise. I'm sure this is just GMs talking and nothing serious now but any thoughts?

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Ugh, yeah That never did sit well with me. Then again, anyone draft jumping (see: Manning, Eli, et al) just bugs me. Go play for the damn team that drafted you and if you don't like it, you can change in a few years.

SI

Ugh - why ? I don't get drafted and assigned to a specific company. I think its perfectly within a guy's rights to have some control over where he ends up living.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

Latest rumor I've heard is that the Sixers had contacted the Celtics about a possible trade, somehow Utah got involved as well:

Celtics receive:
Allen Iverson

Sixers receive:
Carlos Boozer

Utah receives:
Wally Szczerbiak

There would obviously be other players involved, but I'm not sure how I (as a C's fan) would feel. I do like AI, but I'd have to hope he wouldn't stunt the growth of our young guys. To me it seems that Utah loses out talent-wise. I'm sure this is just GMs talking and nothing serious now but any thoughts?

I would never, ever want AI on the C's. Guy is a complete turkey.

Talented for sure but will never win a title.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

Latest rumor I've heard is that the Sixers had contacted the Celtics about a possible trade, somehow Utah got involved as well:

Celtics receive:
Allen Iverson

Sixers receive:
Carlos Boozer

Utah receives:
Wally Szczerbiak

There would obviously be other players involved, but I'm not sure how I (as a C's fan) would feel. I do like AI, but I'd have to hope he wouldn't stunt the growth of our young guys. To me it seems that Utah loses out talent-wise. I'm sure this is just GMs talking and nothing serious now but any thoughts?

Boozer is not as great as his numbers suggest. For starters he is an ABCE player. Plus he's been pretty injury prone.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by stevew

Boozer is not as great as his numbers suggest. For starters he is an ABCE player. Plus he's been pretty injury prone.

ABCE Player?

[heybrad]

No D?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by heybrad

No D?

Ah. That makes sense. Thank you.

[bulletsponge]

I would never, ever want AI on the C's. Guy is a complete turkey.

Talented for sure but will never win a title.

agreed with the AI. such an overrated player. not only does he suck as a point guard and has no clue how to run a team as one, his stats are misleading. any decent player can get his points if they take as many shots as he does, even if they dont get the prefered treatment ai gets from the refs. if he was on my team id ship him out for a can of tuna as soon as some idiot gm came calling.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

if he was on my team id ship him out for a can of tuna as soon as some idiot gm came calling.

I wonder why you aren't a GM.

[MikeVic]

It seemed like AI improved recently... at least in the last couple of years in APG...thought he improved his FG% the last couple of years too.

But I'm still torn on him. He plays with such heart, but he is not a proven winner. And the more that goes on, the more one starts to think he really can't be the #1 guy on a winning team...

Although when they made the Finals, it's hard to say he wasn't a big reason why.