The Obama Presidency - 2008 & 2012

[JPhillips]

From WaPo:

Democratic Party officials believe that Kevin Strouse is exactly the kind of candidate who can help them retake the House next year.

He’s a smart, young former Army Ranger — good qualities for any aspiring politician. But what party leaders really like is that Strouse doesn’t have particularly strong views on the country’s hottest issues.

Yeah, the country is really looking for people that just want to be elected.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

And yet its overhead is still lower than private insurers.

The reality is the country is getting older. The only way to solve that is some combination of raising taxes, reducing provider reimbursements or paying for fewer treatments.

Private insurers also derive income from sources beyond premium intake and the morass that is Medicare contributes more than it's fair share to the private insurers overhead in terms of mandates, rework, upgrades etc to those private insurers that provide Medicare, Medicaid and Medicare replacement policies.

Country is getting older and Medicare already does those things, in fact 28-30% rate decrease was set to take effect 01/01/13 to the Physician reimbursement schedule and it was blocked as part of the new years eve session.

I deal with CMS on a regular basis and I guarantee they could avoid a good chunk of benefit cuts and increased taxes with responsible restructuring.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing the politics of proposing the cuts knowing the GOP will say no and then giving the GOP ready made ads to scare seniors. It would be different if you believed the GOP would work with you, but this is the exact same plan they ran on in 2010 to devastating effect.

But at least David Brooks or the WaPo editorial board will write something nice about Obama.

I think both sides do this. The Dems use the scare tactics just as bad as the GOP. It's about the votes, nothing more, nothing less.

[JPhillips]

Nobody could see this coming.

Remember those warnings about how instead of welcoming President Obama’s adoption of Chained CPI, Republicans would continue to deny him a budget deal and attack him for proposing to cut Social Security?

Well Rep. Greg Walden (R-OR) — who also happens to be chairman of the House GOP’s re-election committee — just showed how it’s done, saying Obama’s budget “lays out a shocking attack on seniors.”

“I’ll tell you when you’re going after seniors the way he’s already done on Obamacare, taken $700 billion out of Medicare to put into Obamacare and now coming back at seniors again, I think you’re crossing that line very quickly here in terms of denying access to seniors for health care in districts like mine certainly and around the country,” he said on CNN Wednesday afternoon.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Just allowing government health organisations to negotiate freely with regards to pricing for drugs would HUGELY reduce health costs in the US imho - it amazes me for a country so proud of its free-market roots it has a system wholly rigged purely to generate money for corporations.

The free market stuff is a scam. Neither side really wants it.

[SirFozzie]

I'm shocked, I thought Rubio would play to his base and attempt to kill the immigration bill, instead he's going to apparently be one of the most public faces FOR the bill


Marco Rubio goes all-in on immigration bill - Manu Raju - POLITICO.com

[JPhillips]

The past few months of explosive Bitcoin value and then the crash of the past couple of days is a very good example of why the gold standard is a bad idea.

[SirFozzie]

Apparently, this is the bumper sticker that GOP congressman Steve Stockman is promoting for his reelection campaign.

"If Babies had guns, they wouldn't be aborted"


*sighs*

[lungs]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The past few months of explosive Bitcoin value and then the crash of the past couple of days is a very good example of why the gold standard is a bad idea.

Funny. The other day my sister (a libertarian) posted something on Facebook about how she should have bought some Bitcoins.

No response to my post on her wall about the crash

[cartman]

A sign of how wrapped around the axle we are.

Beware: Survey Questions About Fictional Issues Still Get Answers

[panerd]

October 9, 2007
Dow 14164
Gold 700

Today
Dow 14865
Gold 1477


One has doubled in the past 7 years and the other gained a little less than 1% a year. I guess gold needs to crash completely and then regain back to where it was and we can all sing its praises.

[JPhillips]

Doubling the value of currency in 6 years would be disastrous. It isn't just the crash.

edit: I should explain more.

If people have a reasonable expectation that the currency tomorrow will buy more than it does today nobody will buy anything non-essential.

[molson]

Aren't bitcoins just kind of a speculative commodities vehicle for nerds? The were up 1700% or something in a year or two against real currencies, then they lose half their value overnight. Seems like you could do OK if you just jumped in and out at the right times. I wonder who's pulling the strings.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Doubling the value of currency in 6 years would be disastrous. It isn't just the crash.

edit: I should explain more.

If people have a reasonable expectation that the currency tomorrow will buy more than it does today nobody will buy anything non-essential.

Believe me Washington DC is not doubling the value of the currency. In fact I would love for you to show me a period of time where they do anything but devalue it.

[sterlingice]

There are some serious problems with our current system. However, I think controlled/uncontrolled deflation is the price we pay rather than a panic cycle like we had in the 19th century.

How does a gold backed currency deal with September 16th, 2008? I'd argue that without being able to essentially print money, we would have gone straight into another great depression rather than a long, slow recession. Time will tell which would be better but over $3T would have gone out of the market that day and we would have had a genuine panic.

EDIT: And I don't think one bases a decision on one rare event. But I am, to this day, of the genuine belief that if RPF doesn't get bailed out right then and there, we are, at best, facing another Great Depression and, at worst, in danger of modern society collapsing. And I believe that, without hyperbole. If you yank $3T out of a $60T world economy in a matter of hours, the effect of that will be staggering as it causes a run on everything else and I couldn't tell you where the floor would be.

SI

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by panerd

Believe me Washington DC is not doubling the value of the currency. In fact I would love for you to show me a period of time where they do anything but devalue it.

If we're on a gold standard Washington doesn't have a ton of control of the value of currency.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

October 9, 2007
Dow 14164
Gold 700

Today
Dow 14865
Gold 1477


One has doubled in the past 7 years and the other gained a little less than 1% a year. I guess gold needs to crash completely and then regain back to where it was and we can all sing its praises.

1980
Dow 759
Gold 615

Today
Dow 14865
Gold 1477

Tell me where you'd rather have your money invested over the last 33 years. And that doesn't even include all the dividends you would have taken home too. And if we're adjusting for inflation, your investment into gold back in 1980 would have lost you a couple hundred dollars an ounce. That's why cherry picking two data points is stupid.

And LOL at wanting to tie your currency to a metal that fluctuates as much as gold in this modern era. Days like today would be fun. Hey everyone, all the money you have is now worth 4% less than it did yesterday!

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If we're on a gold standard Washington doesn't have a ton of control of the value of currency.

But every other country does. Screw building up a military if you're China, just buy up as much gold as you can.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

And LOL at wanting to tie your currency to a metal that fluctuates as much as gold in this modern era. Days like today would be fun. Hey everyone, all the money you have is now worth 4% less than it did yesterday!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

The price of gold fluctuates wildly as a result of the United States removing itself from the gold standard. It is a bit of a stretch to say a gold standard won't work due to fluctuations that were controlled (by definition) by the gold standard. I think even anti-gold standard guys like JPhillips will agree with me on this one.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But every other country does. Screw building up a military if you're China, just buy up as much gold as you can.

Yeah its great that a country like China can't buy up our debt under the current system.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...uments/mfh.txt

[molson]

Originally Posted by panerd

Yeah its great that a country like China can't buy up our debt under the current system.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...uments/mfh.txt

Luxembourg is suspiciously high on that list. Wonder what they're up to.......

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

Yeah its great that a country like China can't buy up our debt under the current system.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...uments/mfh.txt

They can buy debt under a gold standard too. What's your point here?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

The price of gold fluctuates wildly as a result of the United States removing itself from the gold standard. It is a bit of a stretch to say a gold standard won't work due to fluctuations that were controlled (by definition) by the gold standard. I think even anti-gold standard guys like JPhillips will agree with me on this one.

Fluctuations weren't controlled by the gold standard. We saw huge swings during it, much larger and more frequent than what we see today. Gold is far more stable without the gold standard (when factoring inflation and real interest rates into the equation).

[Edward64]

I understand why but don't like how Obama is doing this. Seems gimmicky and there other worthy social causes/platforms that deserve just as much attention.

Mother of Newtown victim delivers emotional weekly address in Obama’s stead

For the first time in his administration, President Obama has turned over his weekly nationally televised address to a citizen — Francine Wheeler, whose 6-year-old son, Ben, was among the 20 children killed in last December’s massacre in Newtown, Conn.

[finketr]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I understand why but don't like how Obama is doing this. Seems gimmicky and there other worthy social causes/platforms that deserve just as much attention.

Mother of Newtown victim delivers emotional weekly address in Obama’s stead

Great.. Will he give equal access to the other side?

[miked]

Originally Posted by finketr

Great.. Will he give equal access to the other side?

Does the NRA need help buying radio slots?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by finketr

Great.. Will he give equal access to the other side?

The GOP has a weekly address, too.

[RainMaker]

Gold down 10% from Panerds post the other day. Lets back our entire currency with it!

[Edward64]

Not quite 10% but point taken.

Gold plunges as China data hit commodities - Apr. 15, 2013

Gold plunged more than 9% Monday to its lowest level in over two years, in the biggest one-day sell-off in decades, as a global tumble in commodities gained steam.

Gold for June delivery, the most active futures contract, lost more than $140 an ounce to trade well below $1,400, adding to Friday's sharp sell-off, when the precious metal slumped 5%. The gold contract is now in bear market territory, having fallen 29% from its record high in September 2011.

Spot gold, which is for April delivery, also tumbled -- dropping 9.3%, the biggest drop since Jan. 22, 1980, when gold prices plunged 17% in a single trading day.

Monday's broad decline was sparked by slowing growth in China. The world's second-biggest economy grew at a 7.7% annual rate, which was weaker than the 8% most economists were expecting.

[Edward64]

I watched Rubio on the Sun talk shows. I don't think he convinced anyone that this was not amnesty. I like a lot about the bill, there are other parts that I am undecided on. I don't think it'll do a lot of stem the tide of illegal immigration ... Reagan's version didn't work.

But I respect him for being out there.

Triggers vital for path to citizenship, Rubio says – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

A bipartisan proposal to revamp U.S. immigration policies will contain three policy steps that must be accomplished before undocumented workers can apply for legal status, an architect of the measure said on Sunday.

Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Florida, said the "triggers" embedded in a legislative proposal to be unveiled this week are necessary to ensure workable reforms that discourage immigrants from coming to the United States illegally.

"If we don't do enforcement, if enforcement is not a part of this, and if we don't modernize legal immigration, if we don't do all of these things, then we're going to be right back here in 10 years having the same conversation - and that would be the worst outcome," Rubio told chief political correspondent Candy Crowley on CNN's "State of the Union."

Rubio, who made the rounds of Sunday talk shows, disputed conservative critics who say a pathway to citizenship is tantamount to amnesty.

“This is not amnesty. Amnesty is the forgiveness of something. Amnesty is anything that says do it illegally, it will be cheaper and easier,” he said on “Fox News Sunday.”

[Edward64]

Coincidently just bought and watched Zero Dark Thirty.

No doubt in my mind some torture was used to gain intelligence. Were there some abuses, sure (and I don't mean the adolescent Abu Ghraib version).

I've read supposedly torture doesn't work well. The movie seem to indicate triangulating information from different tortured suspects led to the lead to OBL.

All in all, if I was GWB, I would be hardpressed not to use torture in special and limited situations ... so not going to fault him (or Obama) on it.

Bush-era torture use 'indisputable,' Guantanamo must close, task force finds - U.S. News

An independent task force issued a damning review of Bush-era interrogation practices on Tuesday, saying the highest U.S. officials bore ultimate responsibility for the "indisputable" use of torture, and it urged President Barack Obama to close the Guantanamo detention camp by the end of 2014.

In one of the most comprehensive studies of U.S. treatment of terrorism suspects, the panel concluded that never before had there been "the kind of considered and detailed discussions that occurred after 9/11 directly involving a president and his top advisers on the wisdom, propriety and legality of inflicting pain and torment on some detainees in our custody."

"It is indisputable that the United States engaged in the practice of torture," the 11-member task force, assembled by the nonpartisan Constitution Project think tank, said in their 577-page report.

The scathing critique of methods used under the Republican administration of former President George W. Bush also sharpened the focus on the plight of inmates at Guantanamo, which Bush opened and his Democratic successor has failed to close.

Obama banned abusive interrogation techniques such as waterboarding when he took office in early 2009, but the widely condemned military prison at the U.S. Naval Base in Cuba has remained an object of condemnation by human rights advocates.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Gold down 10% from Panerds post the other day. Lets back our entire currency with it!

LOL.

A. I believe it was your argument that taking the pulse of anything over a small select period will yield inaccurate information. So go ahead and pick a 10% drop and ignore the growth the last ten years your big government perspective is pretty obvious anyways.

B. I still don't think you understand what a gold standard is. The gold to dollar value would not change at all. (And you can't really compare the 15 trillion dollar hole we have to a time where you could only spend the money you have, so why exactly is this the fault of an object like gold and not the politicians who are spending the money?)

C. What do you think all of he central banks have large holdings of to back the currency? I will give you a hint it's gold and shiny.

[miked]

Despite support from ~80% of the public and 54% of the Senate, expanded background checks fails to get the "supermajority" needed to pass a bill.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by miked

Despite support from ~80% of the public and 54% of the Senate, expanded background checks fails to get the "supermajority" needed to pass a bill.

The continued use of the 'filibuster' that isn't really a filibuster is making a mockery of Congress. I don't really care either way on whether it passes. It's just ridiculous that it continues on without question. I'm guessing there's no way for constituents to change it either, as it's a matter of procedure within the governing body.

[sterlingice]

Just started listening to Master of the Senate on CD. This seems really familiar.

SI

[lungs]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Just started listening to Master of the Senate on CD. This seems really familiar.

SI

I just started reading it. Definitely sounds familiar.

Maybe the Dems need an LBJ to get something done in the Senate

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by miked

Despite support from ~80% of the public and 54% of the Senate, expanded background checks fails to get the "supermajority" needed to pass a bill.

I think you are kidding yourself if you think that bill has 80% support of the public.

[miked]

It would probably have higher if the rednecks didn't think the bill was an attempt to track and take thurrrr guns.

No, but seriously even Fox News poll had support at 80% or so. I mean, it's silly. If we require it for stores, why do we exempt gun shows and flea markets? Because it's an undue burden? I go to flea markets and see people selling stuff using their smartphones to run cards, why can't we check to make sure people who aren't supposed to be buying guns aren't. I mean, the mantra I keep hearing is that responsible gun owners follow the laws, so why is everyone so opposed to closing this loophole?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by lungs

I just started reading it. Definitely sounds familiar.

Maybe the Dems need an LBJ to get something done in the Senate

I'm still in the history portion. Going through the section on 1919 right now. Unfortunately, since I got it on interlibrary loan, I only get it for 2 weeks so I will probably only make it through the first hundred or so pages.

SI

[Edward64]

I own weapons and I'm good with background checks. I don't understand the resistance other than "if you give in here, where does it stop" logic.

Background checks are painless nowadays (or at least in B&M stores I go to).

[Edward64]

Shouldn't this be a UN job to plan for refugees and humanitarian aid? The second paragraph on intervention must the primary driver. I don't like how we are getting involved here.

Jordan must really be worried to allow this. If Assad survives this, Jordan should be worried about Syria and henchmen.

Front Office Football Central

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon is sending about 200 troops to Jordan, the vanguard of a potential U.S. military force of 20,000 or more that could be deployed if the Obama administration decides to intervene in Syria to secure chemical weapons arsenals or to prevent the 2-year-old civil war from spilling into neighboring nations.

Troops from the 1st Armored Division will establish a small headquarters near Jordan's border with Syria to help deliver humanitarian supplies for a growing flood of refugees and to plan for possible military operations, including a rapid buildup of American forces if the White House decides intervention is necessary, senior U.S. officials said.

Although the Pentagon has sent Patriot missile batteries to Turkey and several dozen U.S. troops already are in Jordan to assist with aid flights and other operations, the move marks the first deployment that Pentagon officials explicitly described as a possible step toward direct military involvement in Syria.
:
:
The willingness of Jordan's King Abdullah II to accept even a small number of U.S. troops reflects the growing concern about the spillover effects of the Syrian bloodletting.

Jordan is one of Washington's closest allies in the region, but it has no U.S. bases and has never allowed a sizable U.S. military presence, fearful it would spark domestic unrest. Even during the 2003 American-led invasion of Iraq, which Jordan supported, the presence of U.S. special operations forces entering Iraq from Jordan was a closely held secret.

But with Syria imploding and refugees streaming across the border, Jordanian officials have agreed to accept the small U.S. contingent and are willing to consider a larger force in the future, U.S. officials said.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

A. I believe it was your argument that taking the pulse of anything over a small select period will yield inaccurate information. So go ahead and pick a 10% drop and ignore the growth the last ten years your big government perspective is pretty obvious anyways.

I don't think you understand what short term volatility like that does. It makes it incredibly difficult to determine what the value of debt is when your currency shows it's worth 10% less one week. That has nothing to do with big or small government. Although it's funny since the "small government" gold standard supporters forget that it required government to make it illegal to own gold in this country and confiscated what they had.

Originally Posted by panerd

B. I still don't think you understand what a gold standard is. The gold to dollar value would not change at all. (And you can't really compare the 15 trillion dollar hole we have to a time where you could only spend the money you have, so why exactly is this the fault of an object like gold and not the politicians who are spending the money?)

I know the value doesn't change. But if more gold is produced and put on the open market, it is inflationary. If less gold is produced, it is deflationary. Since other countries mine gold in large numbers, they are capable of manipulating our economy.

I know what the gold standard is and basic economics. That's why I know it's stupid in 2013. It places massive restrictions on how much your economy can grow. All at the same time competing with other countries who don't have those restrictions. It would lead to massive deflation at times and massive depressions (just as it did when it was in place).

It's one of the dumbest ideas put out there and almost no economists think it is beneficial. It's just some dumb thing put out by small government folks who don't understand basic economics. It is funny watching these people scream about inflation during a time when commodities are taking a shit.

[Edward64]

Not alot of news on the budget with the tragedies last week but some good deficit news ...

Deficits are falling. For now - Apr. 22, 2013

Remember 2009, the depths of the economic crisis? That year, the country spent way more than it brought in and ran an eye-popping shortfall that topped 10% of the size of the economy.

This year the deficit is expected to be half that -- around 5.3% of GDP, the Congressional Budget Office estimates.

And by 2015, it's projected to drop to 2.4%.

What's more, the national debt that has accumulated from annual deficits is also projected to fall to an estimated 73.1% of GDP in 2018 from an estimated 76.3% today.

There are several reasons for the downward trend. The economy is on the mend. Incoming federal revenue has risen from 60-year lows and will soon top its historical average for much of the next decade. Spending, meanwhile, has come down from 60-year highs.

And, of course, projections have improved because Congress and President Obama have signed off on $4 trillion of deficit reduction that is set to unfold over the next decade. That assumes the roughly $1 trillion in forced budget cuts that went into effect last month are kept on the books or replaced with something comparable, as Obama has proposed.
:
:
Here's what he means: Because Congress has yet to get a handle on the large, long-term imbalances between spending and revenue, deficits are expected to start rising again by 2016 and debt will resume its upward trek by 2019.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This is disappointing to see. The military is trying to cut additional costs, but members of Congress won't let them for fear that they'll be tagged as closing bases, etc. in their next election.

Congress forcing military to keep unwanted assets, programs despite spending cuts, report says | Fox News

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

This is disappointing to see. The military is trying to cut additional costs, but members of Congress won't let them for fear that they'll be tagged as closing bases, etc. in their next election.

Congress forcing military to keep unwanted assets, programs despite spending cuts, report says | Fox News

Nothing new here. You remember the old "Base Closure Committee" because the spineless fucks couldn't do this before?

It's pathetic and disgusting.

[cartman]

The Missouri state senate voted to defund the driver's license office.

Missouri Senate votes to defund driver’s license bureau - KansasCity.com

[molson]

I'm surprised there hasn't been more "message sending" cuts. Missouri can afford $3.5 million for an essential government service. I know they're one of those states that botches their state budget annually, but come on.

[JPhillips]

I heard the AP twitter was hacked and a message saying the WH was bombed was sent out. That caused the stock market to briefly crash. Did that really happen?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I heard the AP twitter was hacked and a message saying the WH was bombed was sent out. That caused the stock market to briefly crash. Did that really happen?

Yep. Dow plunged 140 points almost immediately.

AP hack proves Twitter has a serious cybersecurity problem - Apr. 23, 2013

I will say that if the "two factor authentication method" mentioned in the article is like what you have to go through when logging into xbox.com, that'd end my use of Twitter for all except the extremely occasional thing. And my experience is that their suggestion of ending simultaneous log-ins would have an extremely chilling effect on business use of it as well. It's not at all uncommon for multiple people in multiple locations to have posting privileges on corporate Twitter accounts, especially in small to medium sized companies.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by cartman

The Missouri state senate voted to defund the driver's license office.

Missouri Senate votes to defund driver’s license bureau - KansasCity.com

What ding-dongs.