2009 MLB Regular Season Thread

[Chief Rum]

STOP...WALKING...THEM!!!

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It was a nice play by Rayburn, but, really, it was one of the stupidest damn plays I have ever seen by the Angels. Are you freakin' kidding me?

I hate our pen this year.

I don't really know what Morales was doing.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You know, Marmol even looks like K-Rod. Ever seen the two of them in the same place at the same time?

Well, you know, aside from the fact that K-Rod gets into a Hell of a lot of trouble (though his WHIP is under 1 this year), he has pitched far, far, far better than Marmol makes me think they are different .

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well, you know, aside from the fact that K-Rod gets into a Hell of a lot of trouble (though his WHIP is under 1 this year), he has pitched far, far, far better than Marmol makes me think they are different .

Well, I am talking about the getting into a lot of trouble.

Everyone knows K-Rod gets out of it. He just doesn't bother to start pitching until two guys are on.

[Chief Rum]

There you go. You f'ers earned it. Take a bow.

[DeToxRox]

Huge grand slam from Clete there, especially stepping in for Miggy. But yeah the Angels pen doesn't exactly send shivers down my spine. Last year I would've said this was over a 5-4 but this time it just seemed like this game wasn't close to done.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Huge grand slam from Clete there, especially stepping in for Miggy. But yeah the Angels pen doesn't exactly send shivers down my spine. Last year I would've said this was over a 5-4 but this time it just seemed like this game wasn't close to done.

The pen has made this season just so extremely frustrating. Especially the walks. I hate walks. There is no reason to give up walks. Every pitcher can pitch a strike if they need to. So pitch strikes. Even the best hitters get hits only 30% of the time. So make them hit the damn ball.

[Chief Rum]

The grand slam was the only hit in the half-inning. Disgusting.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

The pen has made this season just so extremely frustrating. Especially the walks. I hate walks. There is no reason to give up walks. Every pitcher can pitch a strike if they need to. So pitch strikes. Even the best hitters get hits only 30% of the time. So make them hit the damn ball.

Especially vs Detroit when Miggy isnt in. The lineup just isn't strong, but who did they walk that inning? Rayburn, Everett, etc? You cannot walk those guys, that's just bad.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Especially vs Detroit when Miggy isnt in. The lineup just isn't strong, but who did they walk that inning? Rayburn, Everett, etc? You cannot walk those guys, that's just bad.

Exactly. I mean, sure Ordonez is a guy who can do some damage (and they did walk him), but you had to walk two or three guys to even get a chance to get to Ordonez. You have to pitch to these guys. I know he won't because it's not his style, but I hope Scioscia's planning a big meeting with the pen to let them know this sort of thing is just not going to be allowed anymore, and if they can't get the job done, they'll find someone else who can.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Well, I am talking about the getting into a lot of trouble.

Everyone knows K-Rod gets out of it. He just doesn't bother to start pitching until two guys are on.

Except this year apparently. Removing his sole two inning appearance, he's allowed two or more baserunners six times in 24 outings. He's gone 3-up, 3-down 11 times.

So far, so good.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

Except this year apparently. Removing his sole two inning appearance, he's allowed two or more baserunners six times in 24 outings. He's gone 3-up, 3-down 11 times.

So far, so good.

Better than he's been, but I wouldn't say less than 50% 3-up, 3-down is exactly great, nor that doing the two baserunner thing once every four times is a great thing either.

[MrDNA]

Two games in one in San Diego today; monstrous 18-inning affair.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Better than he's been, but I wouldn't say less than 50% 3-up, 3-down is exactly great, nor that doing the two baserunner thing once every four times is a great thing either.

It's always easy to say things like this based on the assumption that others are so much better.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

It's always easy to say things like this based on the assumption that others are so much better.

There aren't many, but there out there. Come on, would you feel the same "woe as me, the game is over" feeling with K-Rod on the mound, as you would a Papelbon or a Nathan? K-Rod's getting that kinda money, too, but he doesn't produce at that level.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

There aren't many, but there out there. Come on, would you feel the same "woe as me, the game is over" feeling with K-Rod on the mound, as you would a Papelbon or a Nathan? K-Rod's getting that kinda money, too, but he doesn't produce at that level.

He hasn't done anything this season to prove otherwise.

[Lathum]

dola- to say he doesn't produce at that kind of level is insane. You realize how many saves he had last year?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

There aren't many, but there out there. Come on, would you feel the same "woe as me, the game is over" feeling with K-Rod on the mound, as you would a Papelbon or a Nathan? K-Rod's getting that kinda money, too, but he doesn't produce at that level.

So are we going by general feeling from an opposing fan, or actual stats?

Papelbon: 24 appearances, 4 times faced 3, 12 times faced 5+
Nathan: 22 appearances, 12 times faced 3, 4 times faced 5+

Seems to me people should be feeling a lot better with Papelbon on the mound. And while Nathan's numbers here are slightly better, I'd say the two blown saves (to K-Rod's zero) and higher ERA (2.08 vs 0.68) put him behind.

[Chief Rum]

Hey, if K-Rod has turned a new leaf and is indeed better, kudos to him and to the Mets for signing him. But you're talking to a guy who had to suffer through his appearances as closer for four years. That stuff doesn't just go away. If it does, great. But I wouldn't make any bets on that if I were you.

[Lathum]

CR has always been a Krod hater. It is just easier now that he doesn't have to root for him

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

dola- to say he doesn't produce at that kind of level is insane. You realize how many saves he had last year?

What do you think? You know what team I am a fan of, right?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

CR has always been a Krod hater. It is just easier now that he doesn't have to root for him

Not a K-Rod hater at all. I loved what he did for the Angels in 2002. I loved his fire on the mound. Loved that makeup and his attitude. He'll always be a highly regarded Angel for what he did here.

That doesn't mean he's all that perfect like you guys are making him out to be. Like I said, okay, he's off to a good start, the stats bear that out. But it's a break from the norm then. I hope for your sakes he stays on this run. But in my experience, he won't.

He's still a heck of a lot better than anything you guys have had for about five years, though, so you're better off no matter what happens.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Like I said, okay, he's off to a good start, the stats bear that out. But it's a break from the norm then. I hope for your sakes he stays on this run. But in my experience, he won't.

.

You're probably right, I mean, he never stays on any kind of run, it's easy to get 62 saves without going on some kind of run.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You're probably right, I mean, he never stays on any kind of run, it's easy to get 62 saves without going on some kind of run.

Are you really arguing that saves are the appropriate metric? K-Rod's a very good reliever (and made all the sense in the world for the Mets)
, but he's no longer the "great" reliever he used to be.

Lets play a game:

Pitcher A:
74 Games, 78 1/3 IP, 80 K, 25 BB, 9 HR
- results: 2.9 BB/9, 9.2 K/9, for a K/BB ratio of 3.20

Pitcher B:
76 Games, 68.1 IP, 77 K, 34 BB, 4 JR
- results: 3.9 BB/9, 9.8 K/9, for a K/BB ratio of 2.26



Who's the better pitcher? Is there much of a difference?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Are you really arguing that saves are the appropriate metric? K-Rod's a very good reliever (and made all the sense in the world for the Mets)
, but he's no longer the "great" reliever he used to be.

WXRL
'05 - 1st
'06 - 1st
'07 - 10th
'08 - 3rd
'09 - 3rd


You will not find a reliever that's been better over the last 4 years and change. KRod has actually become fairly underrated because of all the attention he brought to the ridiculousness of the save stat last year.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

WXRL
'05 - 1st
'06 - 1st
'07 - 10th
'08 - 3rd
'09 - 3rd


You will not find a reliever that's been better over the last 4 years and change. KRod has actually become fairly underrated because of all the attention he brought to the ridiculousness of the save stat last year.

I can't tell what WXRL is, but it seems from what you posted that Crapshoot is right, he isn't as good of a reliever as he once (something I can confirm from visual evidence).

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Are you really arguing that saves are the appropriate metric? K-Rod's a very good reliever (and made all the sense in the world for the Mets)
, but he's no longer the "great" reliever he used to be.

Lets play a game:

Pitcher A:
74 Games, 78 1/3 IP, 80 K, 25 BB, 9 HR
- results: 2.9 BB/9, 9.2 K/9, for a K/BB ratio of 3.20

Pitcher B:
76 Games, 68.1 IP, 77 K, 34 BB, 4 JR
- results: 3.9 BB/9, 9.8 K/9, for a K/BB ratio of 2.26



Who's the better pitcher? Is there much of a difference?

Weird, you leave out the most important stat for a closer

FUCKING SAVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Weird, you leave out the most important stat for a closer

FUCKING SAVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enjoy your heart attack.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Enjoy your heart attack.

oh cmon man, I'm just fucking with you


antikrodite

[DeToxRox]

Ugh, I detest the whole saves stat. This has nothing to do with the whole K-Rod debate, I just hate how much money closers make when it's such a misleading stat. For instance, Todd Jones made 8 million last year because he closed games out, but using him as an example, he was called the Roller Coaster by Ernie Harwell because of how ugly his saves could be, but he embraced that.

Well, if that same pitcher is a middle relief guy who routinely gives up baserunners, how much money does he make? Probably not a lot, because he'll be in the Minors before you know it.

I just hate a closer can be rewarded for giving up 2 runs in the 9th in a 5-2 game and be lauded for shutting the door, even if it's ugly, but if it's 5-2 in the 7th and he gives up 2 runs, he's a bum.

Always annoyed me.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Ugh, I detest the whole saves stat. This has nothing to do with the whole K-Rod debate, I just hate how much money closers make when it's such a misleading stat. For instance, Todd Jones made 8 million last year because he closed games out, but using him as an example, he was called the Roller Coaster by Ernie Harwell because of how ugly his saves could be, but he embraced that.

Well, if that same pitcher is a middle relief guy who routinely gives up baserunners, how much money does he make? Probably not a lot, because he'll be in the Minors before you know it.

I just hate a closer can be rewarded for giving up 2 runs in the 9th in a 5-2 game and be lauded for shutting the door, even if it's ugly, but if it's 5-2 in the 7th and he gives up 2 runs, he's a bum.

Always annoyed me.

Try rooting for the Mets the second half of last year, you'll be singing a different tune.

[larrymcg421]

I remember hearing some closer on a sports show talk about how he just couldn't get mentally prepared unless he was coming in at the end of the game. I somehow bet this psychological bullshit would magically change if they got rid of the save statistic.

I was so happy when Bobby Cox told Bob Wickman to get the fuck out of Atlanta because he didn't want to pitch in a non-save situation.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

oh cmon man, I'm just fucking with you


antikrodite

Heh...lol.

Funny thing is, I really do think the world of him for what he did for the Angels in his time here, and his leaving the Angels was purely a business decision--if my heart had any say in it, I would have rooted strongly for him to stay an Angel for life.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I remember hearing some closer on a sports show talk about how he just couldn't get mentally prepared unless he was coming in at the end of the game. I somehow bet this psychological bullshit would magically change if they got rid of the save statistic.

I was so happy when Bobby Cox told Bob Wickman to get the fuck out of Atlanta because he didn't want to pitch in a non-save situation.

Yep, I remember that. Good for him.

The easy solution is fix the Save stat. Instead of earning a save for 3 runs or less, make it saves are only earned in 1 run situations then we'll see how valuable closers really are.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The irony of Lathum trying to convince CR of K-Rod's value through his save number.

[RedKingGold]

Bastardo puts up another strong outing in Los Angeles. He's only got a fastball right now, but if the Phils ever get him two more good pitches, he'll be a strong starter.

It's a shame about Lidge. If he was right, we could've swept all four games against the best team (records-wise) in the league on the road.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Not a K-Rod hater at all. I loved what he did for the Angels in 2002. I loved his fire on the mound. Loved that makeup and his attitude. He'll always be a highly regarded Angel for what he did here.

That doesn't mean he's all that perfect like you guys are making him out to be. Like I said, okay, he's off to a good start, the stats bear that out. But it's a break from the norm then. I hope for your sakes he stays on this run. But in my experience, he won't.

He's still a heck of a lot better than anything you guys have had for about five years, though, so you're better off no matter what happens.

CR, for the better part of a year now you have had your stance that K-Rod doesn't pitch well until there are two guys on, and then he buckles down and gets the job done. My point with what I posted originally, and then the stats to follow, was that the facts show that the thought that there are all these guys out there who don't allow baserunners isn't true either.

Go back to Joe Nathan who you say "gives that feeling"...last year he faced just 3 hitters 38% of the time, while K-Rod, in probably his worst year from a non-saves perspective, did it 36% of the time.

Trevor Hoffman, this year at least, is about the only "lights out" closer in the business.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Is there a worse nickname convention than the current trent of first initial dash first syllable of last name? Where the hell did the fun nicknames go?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Is there a worse nickname convention than the current trent of first initial dash first syllable of last name? Where the hell did the fun nicknames go?

99% in agreement, I hate that the Mets top prospect is referred to as "F-Mart"...it makes no sense to me, and it sounds like shit.

The 1% is reserved for K-Rod, which I thought was decently cool given the strikeout aspect and not being an F (and thought that way before he was a Met, FWIW).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

99% in agreement, I hate that the Mets top prospect is referred to as "F-Mart"...it makes no sense to me, and it sounds like shit.

The 1% is reserved for K-Rod, which I thought was decently cool given the strikeout aspect and not being an F (and thought that way before he was a Met, FWIW).

I just like the names that are much more appropriate to their skills.

Pete Rose = Charlie Hustle
Joakim Soria = The Mexicutioner

Also, you'd have base stealers with nicknames like 'Wheels' or 'Flash'. Just seems more fun to me. I'm sure there are tons of good examples.

FWIW.....I saw 'F-Mart' and thought it said 'fart'.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

They've been doing that since the days of H-Wag and T-Cobb.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Logan

99% in agreement, I hate that the Mets top prospect is referred to as "F-Mart"...it makes no sense to me, and it sounds like shit.

The 1% is reserved for K-Rod, which I thought was decently cool given the strikeout aspect and not being an F (and thought that way before he was a Met, FWIW).

Agreed- KRod works because of the strikeouts. However, it's one of very, very few that do. "FMart" just conjures up images of Bruce Campbell with a shotgun saying "Shop smart. Shop S-Mart."

SI

[Logan]

Yeah, one of you guys mentioned The Mexicutioner awhile back...agree on it being awesome.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

The irony of Lathum trying to convince CR of K-Rod's value through his save number.

I don't see the irony in it, but ok.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Logan

Yeah, one of you guys mentioned The Mexicutioner awhile back...agree on it being awesome.

Definitely my favorite nickname going, but I might be a little biased

SI

[Crapshoot]

The Mexicutioner is definitely awesome, but let me throw out my own favorite for Pablo Sandoval - Kung-fu Panda. You have to see his "Svelte" figure to really get it.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I like Fat Ichiro.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Are you really arguing that saves are the appropriate metric? K-Rod's a very good reliever (and made all the sense in the world for the Mets)
, but he's no longer the "great" reliever he used to be.

Lets play a game:

Pitcher A:
74 Games, 78 1/3 IP, 80 K, 25 BB, 9 HR
- results: 2.9 BB/9, 9.2 K/9, for a K/BB ratio of 3.20

Pitcher B:
76 Games, 68.1 IP, 77 K, 34 BB, 4 JR
- results: 3.9 BB/9, 9.8 K/9, for a K/BB ratio of 2.26



Who's the better pitcher? Is there much of a difference?

That depends, where are the hit numbers? I want to see pure baserunners, I don't care how many he walks if he's only allowing 30 hits out of the 60 innings he pitches.

[stevew]

Nyjer Morgan, aka Tony Plush. Don't think that one is fairly common yet.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

The Mexicutioner is definitely awesome, but let me throw out my own favorite for Pablo Sandoval - Kung-fu Panda. You have to see his "Svelte" figure to really get it.

If Kung Fu Panda catches on for him, that's great

SI