POTUS 2016 General Election Discussion Thread

[Ben E Lou]

I'm fortunate that though I've got some friends who are pretty far on the left and the right and post about the election from time to time, I've never been personally attacked for where I stand. I suspect that a big part of that is that I follow a personal rule (as do, it appears, just about all of my friends who engage politically on FB,) that it's fine to attack the candidates and positions, but it's not ok to attack the persons who hold the positions or support the candidates.

Only once have I felt the need to restrict/censor someone on my wall, and that was this morning. It happens that the person who crossed the line isn't a "real-life" friend, but someone from the text sim community. I have a friend--Tripp--from way back. Haven't seen him in person since the early/mid 90s. (I did see his wife--who he was dating back then--at my niece's funeral this February, though.) Today he is a police officer and a Trump supporter. I posted the "95% Of African Americans" video last night. Nearly all of the responses were from anti-Trump people mocking Trump for that foolishness, but Tripp posted something starting with "Well I support Trump and even I know he is wrong." Someone else posted something anti-Trump right after him, and Tripp responded "I am going to have to overlook you {name} cause any human being who has a Rick Flair picture posted up there has got to be cool!" Point being, no on--other than HRC and DJ--was being criticized until the text sim dude in question jumped in with a vicious personal attack not on Trump, but on Tripp himself. The attack ended with a comment along the lines of "no one with an IQ above 80 could support Trump." I don't think Tripp's IQ is quite that low, but honestly it's likely below average. Either way, he's a freaking human being who deserves to be treated with some level of dignity. Lord knows I can be as condescending as the next guy, but that was just wayyyyy over the line.

So, Markus, if you read this, that's why I deleted your post.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Obviously, but I can never remember if I hate the white people or the black people.

Based on the left-wing's words, you don't seem to care for most white people. Based on the left-wing's actions, you don't seem to car for most black people.

I see how it gets confusing.

[Ben E Lou]

Related to the comments about FB...

Trump Supporters Try to Convince #NeverTrump to Get on Board by Insulting Them | RedState

[Ben E Lou]

LOLZ. Private message gold from an old buddy from my 'hood.

"Saw your FB post about Trump. You went to private school, married a white girl, and it look like you live out in the suburbs. If Trump can't even get you to vote for him, how the hell he gonna get 95% of us?????"

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

LOLZ. Private message gold from an old buddy from my 'hood.

"Saw your FB post about Trump. You went to private school, married a white girl, and it look like you live out in the suburbs. If Trump can't even get you to vote for him, how the hell he gonna get 95% of us?????"

Made me

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Based on the left-wing's words, you don't seem to care for most white people. Based on the left-wing's actions, you don't seem to car for most black people.

I see how it gets confusing.

At least if I hate everyone there is no prejudice!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I have a theory. I think Trump knows he's going to lose. I think at this point it's about future business endeavors. We're going to see TrumpTV or Trump Media after this election I believe. I think the Breitbart guy is for that. No point in moderating his appeal or toning down the rhetoric. Lose by 10 points, claim it's rigged, stir up a contingent of voters, and cash in.

They're not even waiting:

Meanwhile, spending on the 84-person staff and field organizing barely increased from the previous month, to just $392,000 and $432,000, respectively. The campaign dropped much more — $1.8 million — on hats and other merchandise.

[Dutch]

I know most of FOFC doesn't see the media bias outside of Fox News, but this is a pretty solid example of CNN spin.

From my FB feed which is probably 65%-70% right-leaning...so I couldn't find this link at Huffington Post.

https://www.facebook.com/UncleSamsMi...8357226360281/

[JPhillips]

CNN should get hammered for that.

But I'll counter the bias accusation with the multitude of stories on Hillary's "illness".

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I know most of FOFC doesn't see the media bias outside of Fox News, but this is a pretty solid example of CNN spin.

From my FB feed which is probably 65%-70% right-leaning...so I couldn't find this link at Huffington Post.

https://www.facebook.com/UncleSamsMi...8357226360281/

I didn't even click the link. At this point, anyone who rails about Fox News without following it up with an attack on CNN or MSNBC loses me pretty quickly. As I despise both candidates with a passion, I can see the bias happening on all sides. It's a disgrace.

That said, I can save everyone a ton of time when it comes to POTUS. It's Hillary. Period. She's getting in. This race is going to be over at least a month before the polls open. That isn't me saying I support her. (I really, really hate her) It isn't me crying about Trump losing (he's horrible, the guy is seriously a despicable person) It's just reality.

As far as the election cycle goes, I continue to be horrified about the fact we can't even discuss issues in this country anymore. "I believe we need better border security" may as well be me saying I'm a racist scumbag who hates anyone but whites. "The BLM movement has some good points and we need to look at race relations between police and minorities" You can guess what many Trump supporters say about me when I utter that line.

We can't improve if we can't even have an open discussion, right?

[cuervo72]

Some real geniuses on both sides of the aisle in the comments there. Yeesh.

[RainMaker]

The extremists on both sides don't want discussion despite how much they talk about wanting it.

Politics have been turned into a professional sport where you take your side and defend it in the face of everything.

[tarcone]

Gary Johnson. Vote him in. If you dont like him. In 4 years vote in a Hillary or a Trump.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Gary Johnson. Vote him in. If you dont like him. In 4 years vote in a Hillary or a Trump.

Nah.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I know most of FOFC doesn't see the media bias outside of Fox News, but this is a pretty solid example of CNN spin.

From my FB feed which is probably 65%-70% right-leaning...so I couldn't find this link at Huffington Post.

https://www.facebook.com/UncleSamsMi...8357226360281/

I wonder which group is larger: people who say there is no/little media bias or people who say other people don't think there is media bias.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Gary Johnson. Vote him in. If you dont like him. In 4 years vote in a Hillary or a Trump.

When did you go from turgid for Trump to jonesing for Johnson?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Some real geniuses on both sides of the aisle in the comments there. Yeesh.

I can't bring myself to read open-comments like that anymore. FOFC is about as far out as I will go on the internets with regard to listening to other people's opinions.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Some real geniuses on both sides of the aisle in the comments there. Yeesh.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Gary Johnson. Vote him in. If you dont like him. In 4 years vote in a Hillary or a Trump.

A vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for a Republican, in terms of what that means for the Scalia seat.

Since Republicans are the ones engaged in Senate fuckery with regard to that seat right now, no, I don't think I'll be voting for anybody who'd give them what they want.

Even if I'll be voting for Hillary Clinton literally because the Republican electorate apparently can't find its collective ass with both hands, a flashlight, and the owner's manual.

[Ben E Lou]

Pence's first reaction to Trump's claim is priceless.

[JPhillips]

Trump nearly quintupled the monthly rent his presidential campaign pays for its headquarters at Trump Tower to $169,758 in July, when he was raising funds from donors, compared with March, when he was self-funding his campaign, according to a Huffington Post review of Federal Election Commission filings. The rent jumped even though he was paying fewer staff in July than he did in March.

Suckers.

[JPhillips]

And now Trump tells O'Reilly his immigration policy will basically be the same as Obama and Bush.

"We’re going to obey the existing laws. Now, the existing laws are very strong. The existing laws, the first thing we’re gonna do, if and when I win, is we’re gonna get rid of all of the bad ones. We’ve got gang members, we have killers, we have a lot of bad people that have to get out of this country," he said on Fox News. "As far as everybody else, we’re going to go through the process. What people don’t know is that Obama got tremendous numbers of people out of the country, Bush the same thing. Lots of people were brought out of the country with the existing laws. Well, I’m gonna do the same thing."

Suckers.

[ISiddiqui]

Well, Jon is about to go livid...

(we did tell him this was going to happen, though)

[Thomkal]

Melania Trump has learned a lot from her husband...

Melania Trump starts legal process against Daily Mail over 'defamatory statements'

Seriously though all power to her if these accusations are false.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Melania Trump has learned a lot from her husband...

Melania Trump starts legal process against Daily Mail over 'defamatory statements'

Seriously though all power to her if these accusations are false.

Not sure I believe in "escort" which is what the article is on. But I can easily believe she was out of legal immigration status and the Dems should pursue that. Not that it really matters now but it would be great to play that illegal card (if true) against Trump

[molson]

I think I've said this before here, but if Trump is elected, he'd probably be our most liberal president.

Except that he'd launch military strikes against those who insult him on twitter. Not sure exactly where that falls on the liberal/conservative scale. We'd probably need a new standard for how to describe that, some kind of Trump scale.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Not sure I believe in "escort" which is what the article is on. But I can easily believe she was out of legal immigration status and the Dems should pursue that. Not that it really matters now but it would be great to play that illegal card (if true) against Trump

I agree with you on that, but wow if that could be proven...

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by molson

I think I've said this before here, but if Trump is elected, he'd probably be our most liberal president.

Except that he'd launch military strikes against those who insult him on twitter. Not sure exactly where that falls on the liberal/conservative scale. We'd probably need a new standard for how to describe that, some kind of Trump scale.

I think it would really depend on Congress. My guess is he'd sign basically anything that came to him and then claim it was his idea all along. As long as he got credit for it I think he'd sign a Bernie budget or a Ryan budget.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think it would really depend on Congress. My guess is he'd sign basically anything that came to him and then claim it was his idea all along. As long as he got credit for it I think he'd sign a Bernie budget or a Ryan budget.

That's my impression as well. He has no interest in the actual work to pass his own legislation.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well, Jon is about to go livid...
(we did tell him this was going to happen, though)

You're forgetting, Sportsdigs had me writing off Trump weeks ago.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think it would really depend on Congress. My guess is he'd sign basically anything that came to him and then claim it was his idea all along. As long as he got credit for it I think he'd sign a Bernie budget or a Ryan budget.

I think there's a famous quote that goes....


"There is no limit to what a man can do as long as Trump gets the credit for it."

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

When did you go from turgid for Trump to jonesing for Johnson?

I was on a post convention high.. Then reality set in.

I was leaning Johnson before the final speech.

And the way Trump is acting, Im worried. Thoiugh not as worried if HRC is elected.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by tarcone

not as worried if HRC is elected.

Is she still running? All I hear about is how good Gary Johnson is and how bad Trump is.

[Edward64]

Clinton Foundation and emails seem to be the key talking points right now (besides Hillary's health ... I'm more worried about Trump's possible dementia).

The Dems need to start throwing stuff back on Trump to give the press something else to feed on ... I don't think Trump has said anything too bad since the new campaign manager came onboard.

[JPhillips]

They need to go on a full throated defense of the Clinton Foundation. They have done enormous good for millions of people around the world, specifically HIV and malaria healthcare. They should turn this around and compare the Clinton Foundation to the Trump Foundation.

[mckerney]

Trump Campaign Manager: We’re Actually Winning Right Now, Because of ‘Undercover Trump Voters’ | Mediaite

So it isn't skewed polls this year, is undercover voters who are too embarrassed to tell pollsters that they plan to vote for Trump.

[ISiddiqui]

Is that really the narrative you want to go for? Well, we're really winning because people are embarrassed of our candidate?

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Is that really the narrative you want to go for? Well, we're really winning because people are embarrassed of our candidate?

If it's the best you've got you may as well go with it.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Trump Campaign Manager: We’re Actually Winning Right Now, Because of ‘Undercover Trump Voters’ | Mediaite

So it isn't skewed polls this year, is undercover voters who are too embarrassed to tell pollsters that they plan to vote for Trump.

wow just wow. Not sure how she said that with a straight face. Nice slam on educated voters too.

[Thomkal]

Donald Trump Shouldn't Release Tax Returns, Son Says

So on one hand you really don't learn much from tax returns, and you are worried about people who don't know anything about them (i.e the press) making stuff about them? How about people who do know, are you worried about them? Haven't found anything in Hillary's/Kaine's returns you can use against them have you?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Trump Campaign Manager: We’re Actually Winning Right Now, Because of ‘Undercover Trump Voters’ | Mediaite

So it isn't skewed polls this year, is undercover voters who are too embarrassed to tell pollsters that they plan to vote for Trump.

They said the same thing in the primary, and Trump did not out-perform his polls there.

[JPhillips]

Saw this tweet from Trump during the ebola scare:

The U.S. cannot allow EBOLA infected people back. People that go to far away places to help out are great-but must suffer the consequences!

[JPhillips]

Good God, now Trump is campaigning with Nigel Farage.

And don't forget Geert Wilders was at the convention.

How long until an endorsement from Marine Le Pen?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Donald Trump Shouldn't Release Tax Returns, Son Says

So on one hand you really don't learn much from tax returns, and you are worried about people who don't know anything about them (i.e the press) making stuff about them? How about people who do know, are you worried about them? Haven't found anything in Hillary's/Kaine's returns you can use against them have you?

This part stuck out.

“You would have a bunch of people who know nothing about taxes trying to look through,"

If that doesn't come across as elitist and 1% ish and I don't know what will.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

“You would have a bunch of people who know nothing about taxes trying to look through,"

The irony of this statement, when applied to Obama's birth certificate, would be tremendous.

[JPhillips]

I get that Trump couldn't win with his deport them all strategy, but it was the biggest motivating force for his supporters. How can he survive bailing and now basically supporting Rubio's immigration policy?

When asked whether he would allow an exception for someone to stay in the U.S. who’s proven to be a fair citizen, Trump said, “No citizenship. Let me go a step further — they’ll pay back-taxes, they have to pay taxes, there’s no amnesty, as such, there’s no amnesty, but we work with them.”

He later added that “people that have been working so hard to come into the country, are going through the process, we’re going to take them in and we’re going to cherish them, and they’re going to love us.”

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I get that Trump couldn't win with his deport them all strategy, but it was the biggest motivating force for his supporters. How can he survive bailing and now basically supporting Rubio's immigration policy?

Currently Obama oversees the deportation of nearly a half a million people a year. How is Trumps (or Rubios) plan different? I'm guessing Trump has backtracked on building a wall? So what's left that he is willing to change?

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Currently Obama oversees the deportation of nearly a half a million people a year. How is Trumps (or Rubios) plan different? I'm guessing Trump has backtracked on building a wall? So what's left that he is willing to change?

He's in favor of punitive measures against anyone he dislikes (especially the media) and lowering taxes on himself ... oh and abolishing any restrictions on business which might reduce his income.

(Trump the man of the (cough) people)

[Ben E Lou]

Remember back when pretty much everyone used to say they couldn't stand negative campaign ads??? Stands in pretty sharp contrast to a Presidential election season where it seems that the most frequent argument for voting one way or another is "because the other candidate is soooooo bad!" We may *say* that we hate negative campaigning, but we seen to be proving by our actions that we think it's effective.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Remember back when pretty much everyone used to say they couldn't stand negative campaign ads??? Stands in pretty sharp contrast to a Presidential election season where it seems that the most frequent argument for voting one way or another is "because the other candidate is soooooo bad!" We may *say* that we hate negative campaigning, but we seen to be proving by our actions that we think it's effective.

to be fair, find me two candidates from the last 30 years or so more thoroughly reviled by the other party's base. This isn't strictly "negative campaigning works."

This is one candidate has been Public Enemy #1 (or possibly #2 adjusting for recency bias) for the GOP since, what, 1993? The other candidate delights in saying the most outrageous things just to piss off "the other side." He's the poster boy for "stigginit."

To the extent Mr. Trump has a negative profile in this race (ignoring what may have come before), it's entirely self-inflicted. Republicans have been trying to destroy Hillary Clinton with negative campaigning since her husband was in office. It hasn't worked for them yet, but they've shown no inclination to stop fucking that chicken.