2008-2009 College Basketball Thread......

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like the Henry brothers will be transferring to Kansas. No surprise there as Self has been cutting scholarships, errrr, players have been requesting transfers of late to make room on the squad.

FOX Sports on MSN - COLLEGE BASKETBALL - Sources: Xavier Henry, brother pick Kansas

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Looks like the Henry brothers will be transferring to Kansas. No surprise there as Self has been cutting scholarships, errrr, players have been requesting transfers of late to make room on the squad.

FOX Sports on MSN - COLLEGE BASKETBALL - Sources: Xavier Henry, brother pick Kansas

Being the wealth of basketball knowledge that you are, you are aware that coaches and schools can choose not renew a scholarship? Players are not on four-five year rides, right?

[the_meanstrosity]

Don't let MBBF bother ya Bug. He's just upset because his Tigers lost a recruit to South Florida. Must be another coaching staff willing to pay their players while Clean Program Anderson won't stoop to their level. Makes you wonder how Missouri football coach Gary Pinkel lands quality recruits in football then yet Anderson won't land those players because he runs a clean program. Someone do the math please.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Being the wealth of basketball knowledge that you are, you are aware that coaches and schools can choose not renew a scholarship? Players are not on four-five year rides, right?

Of course. That was the point of the post. Elite level teams can make those kinds of moves without suffering any consequences. That's the way it's always been. If a team outside of the top few legacy teams makes that move, it's heavily used against them in recruiting by other coaches to show the disloyalty of a coach. Such is life in the cut-throat world of college basketball.

It's a pretty shady move, but at the same time, those players know what they're getting into when they go to a program like Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, etc. If you don't perform, you're going to get cut for the next big thing.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

Don't let MBBF bother ya Bug. He's just upset because his Tigers lost a recruit to South Florida. Must be another coaching staff willing to pay their players while Clean Program Anderson won't stoop to their level. Makes you wonder how Missouri football coach Gary Pinkel lands quality recruits in football then yet Anderson won't land those players because he runs a clean program. Someone do the math please.

Obviously, you didn't pay attention to the recruitment of Famous. He had family near both Seton Hall and South Florida. As was mentioned previously in this thread, it was a stretch for Mizzou to get Famous due to his expressed preferrence to play near family. There was no dirty recruiting by South Florida, contrary to your statement implying that they did so.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Being the wealth of basketball knowledge that you are, you are aware that coaches and schools can choose not renew a scholarship? Players are not on four-five year rides, right?

I'm sure he was wrong about scholarships being pulled like he was claiming. I suspect Self had one of those conversations where he told the two players transferring that they probably won't get playing time and it's in their best interest to transfer. But you know MBBF won't let facts or even the most likely scenario get in the way of a good story, if it suits his purposes.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'm sure he was wrong about scholarships being pulled like he was claiming. I suspect Self had one of those conversations where he told the two players transferring that they probably won't get playing time and it's in their best interest to transfer. But you know MBBF won't let facts or even the most likely scenario get in the way of a good story, if it suits his purposes.

SI

I was being sarcastic, but was implying basically what you are saying. The intent is pulling the scholarship to give it to a better player, no matter how the message is delivered. Most KU fans dismiss these kinds of things in this manner since it's a pretty common occurance at their school.

[the_meanstrosity]

I looked but couldn't find a sarcasm smiley.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Obviously, you didn't pay attention to the recruitment of Famous. He had family near both Seton Hall and South Florida. As was mentioned previously in this thread, it was a stretch for Mizzou to get Famous due to his expressed preferrence to play near family. There was no dirty recruiting by South Florida, contrary to your statement implying that they did so.

[the_meanstrosity]

Every college coach does this. I can guarantee you that Mike Anderson sat down at the end of the season and spoke with every single Missouri basketball player and let them know what next year would be like for them, how many minutes they might get, what they need to work on, etc. Missouri football's Drew Temple left the team this past season to find more playing time at a smaller school. I guess I could be "sarcastic" and imply that Pinkel pulled his scholarship and gave it to a better player.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I was being sarcastic, but was implying basically what you are saying. The intent is pulling the scholarship to give it to a better player, no matter how the message is delivered. Most KU fans dismiss these kinds of things in this manner since it's a pretty common occurance at their school.

[Ksyrup]

John Wall...what an idiot!

John Wall, the country's top unsigned high school recruit in basketball, has been charged with misdemeanor breaking and entering, WRAL-TV in Raleigh, N.C., has reported.

Wall, a 6-foot-3, 180-pound point guard ranked fifth in the ESPNU 100's Class of 2009, was cited in connection with an April 27 break-in of a Raleigh residence, police told the TV station.

According to the report, a police officer detained Wall, 18, after observing him leaving out the back of the home. Two minors were also detained and charged in connection with the break-in.

Police said there was no forced entry and nothing to indicate anything was missing from the residence, WRAL-TV reported.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

John Wall...what an idiot!

Better yet, he's 18, so he's officially an adult.

Shouldn't hurt his NBA plans and I'm sure some college will take the risk on him, but it's still disappointing to see a kid do something this stupid.

[Arles]

Arizona just got another 3-star recruit for this fall in Kevin Parrom (who chose Arizona over Pitt). That's 3 very good recruits for this fall for Miller (with Hall and Natyazhko).

In another somewhat surprise, it seems Arizona is now in the mix for the No. 11 player on Rivals.com's list for this fall - Lance Stevenson (NY kid). It looks like it's between Memphis, UCLA, Kansas, St. John's, Maryland and Arizona. Long odds, but crazy that Arizona found its way in the discussion.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Mizzou picked up two athletes over the weekend when they visited. They were both 3-star guys who fit the Anderson prototype. Long arms and can really run. One of them (Underwood) averaged 8.6 blocks per game his senior year.

Mizzou is starting to look more and more like a Calipari team. 8 guys who are 6'6" or taller. A few years ago, we had a 6'5 guy starting at PF. Those days appear to be long gone.

[MrBug708]

Stephenson is once a package deal with Sidney. That should tell you all you want to know about the kid

[Arles]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Stephenson is once a package deal with Sidney. That should tell you all you want to know about the kid

Yeah, I read on AZ rivals that Stephenson's camp may be floating Arizona out there to try and get him some better options. The main writer for the Arizona site said he didn't think Miller was that interested right now.

I'll agree that this kid has some red flags and I'd be a little careful here. That said, when you start recruiting in April for the upcoming fall, you can't really be all that choosy with your openings

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Boy, this would be a REALLY bad rules decision if it goes through. This rule actually provides incentive to injure a player when fouling them in order to get a weaker shooter on the line at the end of the game.

Proposed new rule would change foul shooter - Kansas City Star

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Boy, this would be a REALLY bad rules decision if it goes through. This rule actually provides incentive to injure a player when fouling them in order to get a weaker shooter on the line at the end of the game.

Proposed new rule would change foul shooter - Kansas City Star

Its the rule in the NBA, it has eliminated faking injuries to get better foul shooters and has provided no such incentive to injure people.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

This rule actually provides incentive to injure a player when fouling them in order to get a weaker shooter on the line at the end of the game.

Sweep the leg !!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Its the rule in the NBA, it has eliminated faking injuries to get better foul shooters and has provided no such incentive to injure people.

As though they need an extra incentive?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Its the rule in the NBA, it has eliminated faking injuries to get better foul shooters and has provided no such incentive to injure people.

You're right. From the two playoff games I watched on Wednesday, the NBA players prefer to elbow and slug people in full view of the referee rather than being tactful about it.

Also, the fact that the NBA uses the rule is an excellent reason to proceed in the exact OPPOSITE direction in that regard.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Its the rule in the NBA, it has eliminated faking injuries to get better foul shooters and has provided no such incentive to injure people.

The NBA rule also states that if it's a flagrant foul, then the coach of the shooting team gets to choose who shoots the free throw. So really, there's no incentive for hard fouls at all (unless your name is Kobe )...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

The NBA rule also states that if it's a flagrant foul, then the coach of the shooting team gets to choose who shoots the free throw. So really, there's no incentive for hard fouls at all (unless your name is Kobe )...

Which is exactly how the rule should be. The draft of the NCAA rule currently does not have that verbiage. Perhaps it will eventually.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

An interesting note to some Memphis fans who I know are lurking. Mizzou just signed a kid (Tyler Stone) out of Memphis who's dad played for Memphis State. I didn't know who he was initially, but I'm sure that fans of the program will remember him.......

TheDraftReview - James Bradley

[sooner333]

Mizzou, I understand your sentiments on the free throw thing, but I always thought it was a bit fishy when the guy who got hurt ends up going out and some point guard bench guy comes in for the big man. I'm not just talking about the Mizzou situation (which I don't even think was a big man getting hurt or a bad free throw shooter...wasn't it Tiller? Isn't he decent at free throws?), but I know OU at one game this year got to take Blake out and a halfway decent FT shooter came in. Guess what? Blake came back in on the next dead ball. Now, both guys were probably shaken up, but there's a difference between that and being actually too dehabilitated to shoot free throws.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sooner333

Mizzou, I understand your sentiments on the free throw thing, but I always thought it was a bit fishy when the guy who got hurt ends up going out and some point guard bench guy comes in for the big man. I'm not just talking about the Mizzou situation (which I don't even think was a big man getting hurt or a bad free throw shooter...wasn't it Tiller? Isn't he decent at free throws?), but I know OU at one game this year got to take Blake out and a halfway decent FT shooter came in. Guess what? Blake came back in on the next dead ball. Now, both guys were probably shaken up, but there's a difference between that and being actually too dehabilitated to shoot free throws.

Sure. I understand that the situation isn't optimal, but this isn't the way to fix it.

Yeah, the Mizzou situation was Tiller, who is actually a good FT shooter. He had surgery to repair that wrist after the season, so he obviously wasn't faking in that instance. Also, Mike Anderson actually brought in a freshman who had a worse FT% than Tiller even though another player on the bench had a better FT%, so it obviously wasn't motivated by statistics.

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Sure. I understand that the situation isn't optimal, but this isn't the way to fix it.

Yeah, the Mizzou situation was Tiller, who is actually a good FT shooter. He had surgery to repair that wrist after the season, so he obviously wasn't faking in that instance. Also, Mike Anderson actually brought in a freshman who had a worse FT% than Tiller even though another player on the bench had a better FT%, so it obviously wasn't motivated by statistics.

Yeah, late in the game like that you need to make sure that it's a guy who can stay in until the next possession. I like that the coach is limited to players that aren't on the bench though. But, I kind of disagree about trying to hurt guys. I think that there's already enough incentive to hurt guys--namely, that if they get hurt bad enough, they'll have to sit out because they will be too hurt to play. I don't think that them being a good free throw shooter really changes that dynamic any more than it was there otherwise. There aren't that many guys headhunting in the heat of the moment, and those that are will probably try to take the guy down regardless of who gets to pick who shoots the free throws. I do think there's a greater dynamic of getting fouled and deciding that it might be best to take one for the team (albiet, not much greater because you have to think most kids are competitors).

[the_meanstrosity]

Tiller's surgery was actually due to an injury against Texas earlier in the season when Mason fouled him on a layup. He would have had surgery whether he was fouled in the Memphis game or not, but the foul certainly didn't help the injury.

I don't think Mike Anderson meant to make the situation seem fishy. The situation was that Tiller came out of the game and then went right back in after the free throws. I don't doubt that he was injured, but the fact he was back in the game shows you he was likely healthy enough to take the free throws. Instead of a 70% shooter he would have likely been a 60% shooter with a hurt wrist. Just look back when Tiller originally injured it against Texas and he followed that up with hitting one of two free throws. I'm guessing Tiller or Anderson decided to not take the chance against Memphis. I believe this is why they made the rule change. Again, I don't think Anderson was trying to cheat the system, but you can't argue that Tiller likely could have taken the free throws...just not as well as he normally could.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yeah, the Mizzou situation was Tiller, who is actually a good FT shooter. He had surgery to repair that wrist after the season, so he obviously wasn't faking in that instance. Also, Mike Anderson actually brought in a freshman who had a worse FT% than Tiller even though another player on the bench had a better FT%, so it obviously wasn't motivated by statistics.

[the_meanstrosity]

Stephenson is a great talent, but he's kind of snake bitten right now. He was close to a commitment with Kansas, but then they land Henry. St. Johns would be a great situation for him, but his family wants to get him out of the area so it makes them a non-factor at this point. Memphis makes a lot of sense because of immediate playing time, but I don't know what the interest is there.

As for John Wall, I'm really hoping he tries to challenge the NBA system and go pro. I would love to see the NBA age limit rule get nixed in the next player's and owner's agreement.

Originally Posted by Arles

Yeah, I read on AZ rivals that Stephenson's camp may be floating Arizona out there to try and get him some better options. The main writer for the Arizona site said he didn't think Miller was that interested right now.

I'll agree that this kid has some red flags and I'd be a little careful here. That said, when you start recruiting in April for the upcoming fall, you can't really be all that choosy with your openings

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Oklahoma already-thin front line just got even thinner. Patillo, a big player for Oklahoma through league play and the tournament, has been booted from the team for violating team policy. They've now lost their top two forwards, neither of which was a senior last year.

Oklahoma dismisses forward Pattillo for violating team policy - NCAA Division I Mens Basketball - CBSSports.com News, Fantasy, Video

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting turn-about here. Jarrid Famous is now asking to be released from his South Florida commitment. Two assistant coaches that recruited him left the program and Stan Heath didn't let him know about the changes. He's planning to sit out the season if he isn't released. Sounds like he'll go to Arizona.

USF's top hoops recruit wants out

[gstelmack]

Sigh. Well at least USF had a tourney appearance while I was there...

[Arles]

Both Lamont Jones (USC, trying to get out of his LOI with the Floyd stuff) and Famous could potentially land in Arizona. Still, I doubt it. Even if USC let Jones out of his LOI, they may very well stipulate he can't play for a Pac-10 school. There's also a ton of vague info on the Famous issue with Jarrid's dad saying the following in the The St. Petersburg Times:

"Jarrid is going to South Florida. He's not switching schools," Jerome Famous said. "He's going to South Florida, no doubt about it."

At the end, I think both guys stay at their current schools.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Arles

Both Lamont Jones (USC, trying to get out of his LOI with the Floyd stuff) and Famous could potentially land in Arizona. Still, I doubt it. Even if USC let Jones out of his LOI, they may very well stipulate he can't play for a Pac-10 school.

Does the Pac-10 not have a conference transfer rule to avoid recruiting and transferring between schools in conference? For example, if you want to transfer between Big 12 schools, you have to sit out two years and lose one year of eligibility. It's extremely rare to have transfers in conference for that reason. Luke Axtell was the last one that I can think of (went from Texas to Kansas).

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Does the Pac-10 not have a conference transfer rule to avoid recruiting and transferring between schools in conference? For example, if you want to transfer between Big 12 schools, you have to sit out two years and lose one year of eligibility. It's extremely rare to have transfers in conference for that reason. Luke Axtell was the last one that I can think of (went from Texas to Kansas).

I don't think so, but it's up to the LOI school to set the parameters of allowing a kid to transfer and play this season. So, USC or SF could release their kid from the LOI with the stipulation that they don't play for Arizona (or a Pac-10 team).

It's a different situation if you let a kid out of a LOI compared to having someone currently enrolled actually transfer.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Arles

It's a different situation if you let a kid out of a LOI compared to having someone currently enrolled actually transfer.

True. Good point.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

As for John Wall, I'm really hoping he tries to challenge the NBA system and go pro.

John Wall's decision to apply or not centered around the interpretation of whether or not he was eligible under the current rule (apparently, it was somewhat ambiguous). He never intended to challenge the current rule. Doing so would seem somewhat foolish considering that the federal court system ruled emphatically in the Maurice Clarett/Mike Williams case that collectively bargained age limits are legal.

As for the next round of CBA, the age limit is likely to get raised to two years after high school. It probably has no chance of going away.

[Radii]

Sophomore guard Terrence Oglesby leaving Clemson, to play in Europe - ESPN

Clemson 3 point threat Terrance Oglesby leaves college after two years to go play in Europe.

[Butter]

That sucks for Clemson. Oglesby was a bit of a shot hog when he was in the game though, and a defensive liability... so it's not going to be a total disaster. They just won't shoot the 3 as well next year with he and Rivers gone... but they have never been a good 3-point shooting team anyway even with Oglesby around.

[MrBug708]

There is a rule in the PAC-10 that you must sit two years, but most coaches will waive it.

[Arles]

Isn't that just for transfers?

[GoldenEagle]

I am hoping that Noel Johnson and Momo Jones land at Memphis. We really need a PG next year. There is the talk of Lance Stephenson going to Memphis, Arizona, or Maryland. But there are some issues with his amateur status and the people that surround him.

[Arles]

I'm hoping Stephenson doesn't end up at Arizona. The more I read about him, the more I cringe.

[the_meanstrosity]

The last Big 12 player to transfer within the conference was Lucas from Baylor to Oklahoma State following the Bliss firing. I believe Lucas was even given an exemption from the Big 12 transfer rules because of the situation.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Does the Pac-10 not have a conference transfer rule to avoid recruiting and transferring between schools in conference? For example, if you want to transfer between Big 12 schools, you have to sit out two years and lose one year of eligibility. It's extremely rare to have transfers in conference for that reason. Luke Axtell was the last one that I can think of (went from Texas to Kansas).

[the_meanstrosity]

I never meant to suggest Wall was going to apply for the NBA draft. I only meant I'd like to see him challenge the NBA draft rule simply because I think the rule is a farce. The rule is basically in place so that NBA scouts no longer have to scout high school basketball games. So now the college ranks have become what the NBDL should have been. And guys with the talent of Kobe and Lebron are forced to attend college when they'd rather be playing professionally. And now the college ranks are having to deal with the issues of players like OJ Mayo and Derrick Rose when they should have been in the NBA or NBDL to start with.

Originally Posted by Samdari

John Wall's decision to apply or not centered around the interpretation of whether or not he was eligible under the current rule (apparently, it was somewhat ambiguous). He never intended to challenge the current rule. Doing so would seem somewhat foolish considering that the federal court system ruled emphatically in the Maurice Clarett/Mike Williams case that collectively bargained age limits are legal.

As for the next round of CBA, the age limit is likely to get raised to two years after high school. It probably has no chance of going away.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

I never meant to suggest Wall was going to apply for the NBA draft. I only meant I'd like to see him challenge the NBA draft rule simply because I think the rule is a farce.

Wall apparently was considering declaring, as you can (somehow) make an argument that he meets the requirements to declare.

You may think the rule is a farce (and I am not sure I disagree) but if the ruling on Clarett/Williams applies (and it would seem to) then the rule has essentially already been challenged and upheld.

[the_meanstrosity]

The NFL did have a favorable ruling, but I would guess Walls' condition is special since he's a fifth year senior. It was definitely a gray area that the NBA would have to research further. Though I doubt it comes to it as Wall is likely headed to college.

Originally Posted by Samdari

Wall apparently was considering declaring, as you can (somehow) make an argument that he meets the requirements to declare.

You may think the rule is a farce (and I am not sure I disagree) but if the ruling on Clarett/Williams applies (and it would seem to) then the rule has essentially already been challenged and upheld.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

The NFL did have a favorable ruling, but I would guess Walls' condition is special since he's a fifth year senior. It was definitely a gray area that the NBA would have to research further. Though I doubt it comes to it as Wall is likely headed to college.

More than likely - he missed the deadline to declare for the draft, so his choices are Kentucky or Europe.

EDIT: Wall's situation as a 5th year senior is hardly unique. Lots of guys go to prep school to get their academics right for eligibility. The NCAA considers that still being in high school. The NBA has never had to answer the question about what they consider it.

[the_meanstrosity]

I realize the NBA declaration is over, but as we saw last year there's always the option to go over seas, prep school?, sit out a year, etc. Hence the "likely headed to college".

Wall's situation is unique given his lottery talent and the limited number of drafts since the age restriction was started. Most players who attend prep for an extra year don't normally have the talent of a player like Wall. Wall was a fifth year senior who was 19 years of age. The NBA rules for the draft are basically that the player is at least 19 and at least one season must elapse from the player's graduation of high school (or the graduation of the class from which he would have graduated if he did not get a degree). The gray area is the graduation year of his class. Being a fifth year senior means his graduating class should have been last year and hence the gray area. It's all moot now of course, but he certainly would have had a case to present had he declared. Even an NBA spokesman noted in Ford's article that they would have had to research Wall's case further because of the special situation.

Originally Posted by Samdari

More than likely - he missed the deadline to declare for the draft, so his choices are Kentucky or Europe.

EDIT: Wall's situation as a 5th year senior is hardly unique. Lots of guys go to prep school to get their academics right for eligibility. The NCAA considers that still being in high school. The NBA has never had to answer the question about what they consider it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Unbelievably stupid move, but you can expect nothing less from the NCAA. They've implemented the 'Tiller' rule that allows the opposing coach to choose the FT shooter from the players on the court when an injury occurs..........

NCAA changes rule in wake of University of Missouri Tigers' win over Marquette Golden Eagles in NCAA Tournament - STLtoday.com

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Unbelievably stupid move, but you can expect nothing less from the NCAA. They've implemented the 'Tiller' rule that allows the opposing coach to choose the FT shooter from the players on the court when an injury occurs..........

NCAA changes rule in wake of University of Missouri Tigers' win over Marquette Golden Eagles in NCAA Tournament - STLtoday.com

The NCAA has plenty of stupid rules but this isn't one of them. I don't remember that play, but I remember other situations where a player appeared to be feigning injury to their advantage. This eliminates that possibility and seems like a good rule change.