2012 NFL Offseason thread

[spleen1015]

I think it is preseason and none of this really matters.

The real refs will be back for Week 1. So, I don't care.

[Young Drachma]

Who the hell keeps a receipt for a box of condoms?! Especially when it's essentially cost you your job. Hope sponsors paid for that wedding they just had...

[Julio Riddols]

Chad better have had a pre-nup.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Chad better have had a pre-nup.

They haven't been married for but a month, so she wouldn't get anything. Besides, not sure that he really has that much after all of his kid's mothers get their cut. This isn't Tiger Woods or Kobe or something.

But what a way to go out.

[Julio Riddols]

As for the replacement refs, there have been some calls that were just ridiculously bad. The punt in the Washington game I believe it was.. Where it was clearly downed at the 3 and didn't even go near the end zone. When they called that a touchback, I just sat here shaking my head thinking "There goes the NFL's case."

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Chad better have had a pre-nup.

Antoine Walker....check
Chad Johnson....check

Next?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

As for the replacement refs, there have been some calls that were just ridiculously bad. The punt in the Washington game I believe it was.. Where it was clearly downed at the 3 and didn't even go near the end zone. When they called that a touchback, I just sat here shaking my head thinking "There goes the NFL's case."

Given how horrifically bad some of these calls have been, anyone else think maybe the new refs are doing it intentionally in some weird show of brotherhood?

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Looking at Seattle's new uniforms makes my retinas hurt. Fuck you, Nike.

[molson]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Given how horrifically bad some of these calls have been, anyone else think maybe the new refs are doing it intentionally in some weird show of brotherhood?

It could just be that reffing at the highest level of sports is a really tough job. Everybody who calls for blood/firings/suspensions whenever a referee or umpire makes a mistake - this is what's waiting in the wings as far as replacements.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

Looking at Seattle's new uniforms makes my retinas hurt. Fuck you, Nike.

+1

[Daimyo]

Going directly from Manning to Luck just doesn't seem fair.... but I'll take it!

[dacman]

Geez...you guys are slipping ----



Colts looking good in the preseason!

[Ksyrup]

Adam Caplan ‏@caplannfl
Rams announced they are withdrawing their commitment to play a home game in London in each of the 2013 and 2014 seasons.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I think it is preseason and none of this really matters.

The real refs will be back for Week 1. So, I don't care.

So you wouldn't care if there was a late whistle on a forward progress or a non-whistle on an obvious play that should be killed (like what happened last week) and your team's star player gets wacked and is out for the year?

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Given how horrifically bad some of these calls have been, anyone else think maybe the new refs are doing it intentionally in some weird show of brotherhood?

These officials out there now will never see the field except in high school. They've been blackballed and they know it. It's their one shot at glory. I don't think they are intentionally doing bad.

Originally Posted by molson

It could just be that reffing at the highest level of sports is a really tough job. Everybody who calls for blood/firings/suspensions whenever a referee or umpire makes a mistake - this is what's waiting in the wings as far as replacements.

I was emailed to be interviewed to be a replacement ref and declined. One reason is because it would've been a career killer but I know there is no way I could handle the speed out there.

I wouldn't be fearful of what is waiting in the wings. Most of the capable officials that will be taking the next step are in BCS conferences and knew better than to go in as replacement refs.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I was emailed to be interviewed to be a replacement ref and declined. One reason is because it would've been a career killer but I know there is no way I could handle the speed out there.

I wouldn't be fearful of what is waiting in the wings. Most of the capable officials that will be taking the next step are in BCS conferences and knew better than to go in as replacement refs.

I was wondering if they had contacted you, perhaps it almost seemed likely that you would be the type of target that they would be going after. Not in regards to ability, but merely to where I would estimate you currently stand in the ref world.

Do you think you can make the NFL by like 2020 or so?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by molson

It could just be that reffing at the highest level of sports is a really tough job. Everybody who calls for blood/firings/suspensions whenever a referee or umpire makes a mistake - this is what's waiting in the wings as far as replacements.

I understand some calls will be much harder to make. But the coin flip (one playoff game aside )? Downing the ball at the 4? Speed is not involved in these.

Nerves / jitters playing above their level maybe.

[Dutch]

I want that Chad Johnson/Lee Evans WR Duo that's just sitting out there unsigned right now....they would tear it up in FOF.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

These officials out there now will never see the field except in high school. They've been blackballed and they know it. It's their one shot at glory. I don't think they are intentionally doing bad.

Sak, are you saying "blackballed" in the traditional sense or just commenting that they aren't skilled enough to be NFL refs, and their career paths have already been decided.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Logan

Sak, are you saying "blackballed" in the traditional sense or just commenting that they aren't skilled enough to be NFL refs, and their career paths have already been decided.

If you're a scab ref, you can't ever join the union. The few replacement baseball players who subsequently made the majors were never allowed to join the union either after the '95 lockout.

These refs have signed their death warrants as far as it relates to the NFL once this whole thing ends. Which is why they had to get lower tiered refs to work these games, rather than more experienced college ones.

[Logan]

Ah gotcha. Forgot about the picket line aspect.

[MizzouCowboy]

Cowboys/Raiders looking (not so) good preseason.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by MizzouCowboy

Cowboys/Raiders looking (not so) good preseason.

Yeah, that was pretty brutal to watch.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by MizzouCowboy

Cowboys/Raiders looking (not so) good preseason.

Dan Graziano @espn_nfceast
At the time the Cowboys-Raiders game ended, nine Major League Baseball teams had outscored them both.

Now, I haven't looked at the score of the game yet, but that's just brutal.

[Dutch]

And it wasn't the second coming of 85 Bears vs 90 Eagles...fwiw...

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Yeah, that was pretty brutal to watch.

+1

[CraigSca]

So, the NFL has been chastised for years for not employing referees full-time, and now they want this in the contract but it's the officials who don't want to give up their full time jobs? Are they low-balling referee salaries, is that why?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

So, the NFL has been chastised for years for not employing referees full-time, and now they want this in the contract but it's the officials who don't want to give up their full time jobs? Are they low-balling referee salaries, is that why?

I am sure they feel they are however these refs need to realize that they can be easily replaced and that the fans don't go to games or watch games because of them. They are being offered between $48,000 and $144,000 per year based on experience which seems more than fair in my opinion.

Perhaps the crew leader that gets the TV time and the majority of the heat should earn a bit more but for what the others do I think that range of salary seems pretty good. They only work 6 months a year from what Ive read and only 3-4 hours per week are they actually in the spotlight. They can earn bonuses of 11k+ just for being invited to work the Super Bowl.

I can understand the refs wanting to hold out if the NFL is requiring them to have this as their "full-time" job however are many of them actually capable of making this kind of money doing other things? Im not sure the refs have much leverage here. Perhaps it is because I think the NFL refs screw up on a regular basis but I dont see their ability as something super special where others cant go to school and replace them and do the job at a similar level.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I am sure they feel they are however these refs need to realize that they can be easily replaced and that the fans don't go to games or watch games because of them. They are being offered between $48,000 and $144,000 per year based on experience which seems more than fair in my opinion.

Perhaps the crew leader that gets the TV time and the majority of the heat should earn a bit more but for what the others do I think that range of salary seems pretty good. They only work 6 months a year from what Ive read and only 3-4 hours per week are they actually in the spotlight. They can earn bonuses of 11k+ just for being invited to work the Super Bowl.

I can understand the refs wanting to hold out if the NFL is requiring them to have this as their "full-time" job however are many of them actually capable of making this kind of money doing other things? Im not sure the refs have much leverage here. Perhaps it is because I think the NFL refs screw up on a regular basis but I dont see their ability as something super special where others cant go to school and replace them and do the job at a similar level.

Most referee's are lawyers, doctors and other high paid jobs. I don't blame them for not wanting to give their jobs up.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Most referee's are lawyers, doctors and other high paid jobs. I don't blame them for not wanting to give their jobs up.

I wouldnt blame them either but I also dont think the NFL cares that much about if they wanted to quit being an official.

Perhaps its time for the NFL to force out the old regime and start fresh with fulltime NFL refs on the wages the NFL wants to pay them. NFL refs within the past 5 years has just gotten awful anyway. Cant see a couple seasons of replacement refs being all that much different.

[Coffee Warlord]

Urlacher's apparently getting his knee scoped.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by stevew

I was wondering if they had contacted you, perhaps it almost seemed likely that you would be the type of target that they would be going after. Not in regards to ability, but merely to where I would estimate you currently stand in the ref world.

Do you think you can make the NFL by like 2020 or so?

The NFL is a pipe dream for me. Yes it would be super awesome to make it there, but I have to be realistic and not think to far ahead. My next goal is to get to the FCS/FBS. Once I get there and get established, I'll then allow the NFL dream to get in my head.

Originally Posted by Logan

Sak, are you saying "blackballed" in the traditional sense or just commenting that they aren't skilled enough to be NFL refs, and their career paths have already been decided.

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

If you're a scab ref, you can't ever join the union. The few replacement baseball players who subsequently made the majors were never allowed to join the union either after the '95 lockout.

These refs have signed their death warrants as far as it relates to the NFL once this whole thing ends. Which is why they had to get lower tiered refs to work these games, rather than more experienced college ones.

Exactly what Dark Cloud said and one step further...most NCAA conferences won't take these scab officials back either. So they are going to be stuck working High School, low level Arena Ball, or the Lingere League.

Originally Posted by CraigSca

So, the NFL has been chastised for years for not employing referees full-time, and now they want this in the contract but it's the officials who don't want to give up their full time jobs? Are they low-balling referee salaries, is that why?

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I am sure they feel they are however these refs need to realize that they can be easily replaced and that the fans don't go to games or watch games because of them. They are being offered between $48,000 and $144,000 per year based on experience which seems more than fair in my opinion.

Perhaps the crew leader that gets the TV time and the majority of the heat should earn a bit more but for what the others do I think that range of salary seems pretty good. They only work 6 months a year from what Ive read and only 3-4 hours per week are they actually in the spotlight. They can earn bonuses of 11k+ just for being invited to work the Super Bowl.

I can understand the refs wanting to hold out if the NFL is requiring them to have this as their "full-time" job however are many of them actually capable of making this kind of money doing other things? Im not sure the refs have much leverage here. Perhaps it is because I think the NFL refs screw up on a regular basis but I dont see their ability as something super special where others cant go to school and replace them and do the job at a similar level.

I can understand why people are and would be upset with seeing how much they make. However please do not under estimate the time these NFL refs have to put in on a weekly basis and the microscope they are under.

Before I started I thought the same thing you did jbergey, that they only really worked 3-4 hours a week. That couldn't be further from the truth. The amount of time they spend reviewing their game from the previous, meeting with their observer, answering observers questions, meeting with the crew to fix the mistakes, and then watching film on the next week's opponent is well over 30-40 hours a week and that is not including their game. As far as it being a 6 month job...I'd call it more like a 9 month job with the training and such that goes along with it.

So that brings the next point about full time refs. Yes the NFL is saying that they are going to make one crew full time. That's all well and good, but they also want accountablilty and they ability to remove guys who don't live up to their standards. Again all well and good. But would you leave your current job to take a job where you might be there a year? They just want some balance here and guidlines as to this all will work.

For your other comments about you seeing them screw up on a regular basis and being easily replaceable, I will answer that comment with this fact. During an average NFL game, the guys on the field get 98.3% of the plays correct per game. So if that is your definition of "a regular basis" then I will have to agree with you.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

For your other comments about you seeing them screw up on a regular basis and being easily replaceable, I will answer that comment with this fact. During an average NFL game, the guys on the field get 98.3% of the plays correct per game. So if that is your definition of "a regular basis" then I will have to agree with you.

What you said was very well put but I do have to ask where this figure actually comes from?

In the NFL you could probably call a hold on almost every play so on that alone that figure wouldnt add up. I am not asking them to be perfect but I do ask them to be consistent which they are not. Certain replay rules have certainly hurt them in how they ref games now but they are just not consistent at all in how they call holds, pass interference, and roughing the passer penalties. They do a very good job for the most part on offsides penalties, fumbles, and marking the ball.

I know its not an easy job but Ive watched the NFL for 25+ years and this is as bad as I can ever remember the officials being. If I dont notice the refs I consider it a job well done if I do notice them which is frequently now I feel they did a below average or poor job.

Im actually not that tough on refs if they are calling the game down the middle. Once they start showing bias to a team or a certain player I get annoyed. Their job is to call the game down the middle.

[Young Drachma]

So Chad releases a "statement"

I would like to apologize to everyone for the recent events that have occurred. I would like to wish Evelyn well and will never say anything bad about her because I truly love her to death. I will continue to be positive and train hard for another opportunity in the NFL. To all the fans and supporters I have disappointed, you have my sincerest apologies. I will stay positive and get through this tough period in my life.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

What you said was very well put but I do have to ask where this figure actually comes from?

In the NFL you could probably call a hold on almost every play so on that alone that figure wouldnt add up. I am not asking them to be perfect but I do ask them to be consistent which they are not. Certain replay rules have certainly hurt them in how they ref games now but they are just not consistent at all in how they call holds, pass interference, and roughing the passer penalties. They do a very good job for the most part on offsides penalties, fumbles, and marking the ball.


Im actually not that tough on refs if they are calling the game down the middle. Once they start showing bias to a team or a certain player I get annoyed. Their job is to call the game down the middle.

Each game has an observer that grades the games via being at the game and re-watching the film. That observer then gives the grades to the individual officials and at that time they are required to respond and if they feel they are correct challenge the observers ruling. The challenge goes to the head of officiating (who works for the NFL) and he has the final say. So after compiling all that data, that's where that number comes from. So as a crew in a normal 140 play game...they get at least 137 plays correct.

As far as your comment on calling holding every play...I will admit to you before I started down this career path I thought the same thing. But what I quickly learned when getting into this business was that I had no idea what an actual hold was...frankly, I still struggle with that because it's a tough call. I am not trying to big time you and say that you don't know a thing about football, because I am sure you do. I am just saying that until I received the training, I was in the same boat as you are.

I would be more than willing to talk more about it, or if you found some plays on youtube and wanted to show me...I'd gladly take the time to give you an explanation why it was or wasn't called. I'd rather do that in another thread (or the officiating one I have buried somewhere) than clog up this one.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I know its not an easy job but Ive watched the NFL for 25+ years and this is as bad as I can ever remember the officials being. If I dont notice the refs I consider it a job well done if I do notice them which is frequently now I feel they did a below average or poor job.

As I read through the NFL threads every week I feel like there are many posters here who go into games expecting bias and who are going out of their way to seek out calls that may not be perfect, and that the discussion of games heavily revolves around the quality of referee's. I'm not saying you do this but I feel its an overwhelming point of discussion in almost any game these days. Many, many times you'll see people here complaining about calls that "could not possibly be called any other way" only to have an argument start about it because others immediately reply because they feel the call was made correctly. And we're a pretty bright, level headed community compared to the general population. Its completely impossible, for example, to gain any enjoyment at all out of the panthers facebook group on gameday unless you just want to dogpile on the refs, even in a win, those damn refs are trying to make Carolina lose every game, its uncanny.

I guess what I'm rambling towards, in general, is that I feel that many smart, reasonable people, whether they realize it or not, are very biased against the officials. Fan bias is immense and overwhelming. There are absolutely clear bad calls made, yes, with sak's 98% stat that allows for ~3 plays a game that are objectively screwed up, which inevitably is going to lead to 15 or 20 plays a game where the untrained fan is going to feel they see something that isn't right.

IMO, replacement refs aside, every year that technology improves will be the new "worst its ever been" for referee quality in the eyes of the fans, until a time when computers are calling the games, at which time we'll start making arguments that the computers are programmed to favor one team over another.

I'm not calling you individually out here at all, this is just the vibe I get from the interwebs on gameday.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Radii

As I read through the NFL threads every week I feel like there are many posters here who go into games expecting bias and who are going out of their way to seek out calls that may not be perfect, and that the discussion of games heavily revolves around the quality of referee's. I'm not saying you do this but I feel its an overwhelming point of discussion in almost any game these days. Many, many times you'll see people here complaining about calls that "could not possibly be called any other way" only to have an argument start about it because others immediately reply because they feel the call was made correctly. And we're a pretty bright, level headed community compared to the general population. Its completely impossible, for example, to gain any enjoyment at all out of the panthers facebook group on gameday unless you just want to dogpile on the refs, even in a win, those damn refs are trying to make Carolina lose every game, its uncanny.

I guess what I'm rambling towards, in general, is that I feel that many smart, reasonable people, whether they realize it or not, are very biased against the officials. Fan bias is immense and overwhelming. There are absolutely clear bad calls made, yes, with sak's 98% stat that allows for ~3 plays a game that are objectively screwed up, which inevitably is going to lead to 15 or 20 plays a game where the untrained fan is going to feel they see something that isn't right.

IMO, replacement refs aside, every year that technology improves will be the new "worst its ever been" for referee quality in the eyes of the fans, until a time when computers are calling the games, at which time we'll start making arguments that the computers are programmed to favor one team over another.

I'm not calling you individually out here at all, this is just the vibe I get from the interwebs on gameday.

Yours is my new favorite post on the internet.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

So Chad releases a "statement"

Ah the sanctity of the institution of marriage!

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Ah the sanctity of the institution of marriage!

She filed for divorce today.

[bhlloy]

I'm trying to figure out which is more likely - that Chad headbutted her because Chad is crazy, or if she's a calculating golddigger who needed the money and to stay in the public eye. Can both be true at the same time?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I'm trying to figure out which is more likely - that Chad headbutted her because Chad is crazy, or if she's a calculating golddigger who needed the money and to stay in the public eye. Can both be true at the same time?

Seems like both are true at the same time.

However, Lozada has been prone to violence: On the VH1 series "Basketball Wives," where she gained her fame, she became infamous for attacks on other castmates. In June, she apologized for her behavior and in a letter to her younger self posted on The Huffington Post, she blamed her penchant for fighting on violence in her own household growing up

Evelyn Lozada files for divorce from Chad Johnson - ESPN

Once VH1 cancelled the reality show (perhaps they were going to anyway?) she had no financial incentive to keep the ruse going and now that Chad's been released, he's got no money to keep her fed either. So show's over, I guess.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

She filed for divorce today.

That is why I made the comment.

[Suicane75]

I wish that kid who stole the car and flipped it from the Strange News thread had run her over first.

[spleen1015]

There's no excuse for him headbutting her if that is in fact what he did.

Seeing her on Hard Knocks last week, I think she is the kind person that likes to provoke people, push buttons to try and drive people into headbutting her so that she can take advantage of that.

[Ksyrup]

They probably set up the condom "dilemma" for the show and it spiraled out of control.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Radii

As I read through the NFL threads every week I feel like there are many posters here who go into games expecting bias and who are going out of their way to seek out calls that may not be perfect, and that the discussion of games heavily revolves around the quality of referee's. I'm not saying you do this but I feel its an overwhelming point of discussion in almost any game these days. Many, many times you'll see people here complaining about calls that "could not possibly be called any other way" only to have an argument start about it because others immediately reply because they feel the call was made correctly. And we're a pretty bright, level headed community compared to the general population. Its completely impossible, for example, to gain any enjoyment at all out of the panthers facebook group on gameday unless you just want to dogpile on the refs, even in a win, those damn refs are trying to make Carolina lose every game, its uncanny.

I guess what I'm rambling towards, in general, is that I feel that many smart, reasonable people, whether they realize it or not, are very biased against the officials. Fan bias is immense and overwhelming. There are absolutely clear bad calls made, yes, with sak's 98% stat that allows for ~3 plays a game that are objectively screwed up, which inevitably is going to lead to 15 or 20 plays a game where the untrained fan is going to feel they see something that isn't right.

IMO, replacement refs aside, every year that technology improves will be the new "worst its ever been" for referee quality in the eyes of the fans, until a time when computers are calling the games, at which time we'll start making arguments that the computers are programmed to favor one team over another.

I'm not calling you individually out here at all, this is just the vibe I get from the interwebs on gameday.

Great points you make. The weekly NFL threads in this forum is a good example of what you are talking about here

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

They probably set up the condom "dilemma" for the show and it spiraled out of control.

Yeah, because people in the public eye have never gotten married & divorced for publicity purposes before.

[JPhillips]

Is Gradkowski only working on 1 yard passes tonight?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Dwayne Bowe finally signed his franchise offer for 1 yr/9.5M. I need to find a job where I can settle for that.

[RedKingGold]

I think LaGarrette Blount's knee just exploded.

EDIT: Or not, but it looked pretty bad.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I think LaGarrette Blount's knee just exploded.

EDIT: Or not, but it looked pretty bad.

Them not getting Richardson hurt.

Ponder did decent while he was in.