The Obama Presidency - 2008 & 2012

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

fifty.

You're talking in one debate right?

Because I figure over the length of the whole campaign it'll be at least...25x that.

[stevew]

For Their Next Trick, Democrats Will Turn Texas into a Blue State

Interesting read on Texas politics.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I don't see why we are hesitating to help out the French with refueling tankers. Just as long as there are no combat troops on the ground seems like low risk, high reward (fighting AQ and building stronger ties with France).

Good call, lets help them out (hate to not be able to visit Paris again because of increased AQ, terrorism).

US to provide aerial refueling for French Mali effort - World News

WASHINGTON - The United States has agreed to fly tankers to refuel French jet fighters and bombers attacking al-Qaida-affiliated militants who have established a foothold in northern Mali, U.S. defense officials said on Saturday.
:
NBC's Richard Engel expects a support role for the U.S. in the current conflict in Mali with no "boots on the ground." Engel talks to MSNBC's Craig Melvin about the ongoing conflict.
:
A U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said three U.S. KC-135 tankers would provide aerial refueling as necessary to French aircraft, including tactical jets and bombers. The U.S. planes are stationed at Moron Air Base in Spain

[Edward64]

The hawk in me wants to call his bluff and escalate US involvement but also plan for it not being a bluff. This isn't for Israel, this is for "our interests" in the entire region. I do think GWB was right about this one being (figuratively) in the axis of evil.

Iran official says attack on Syria is attack on Iran | Fox News

Issuing Tehran's strongest warning to date, a top Iranian official said Saturday that any attack on Syria would be deemed an attack on Iran, a sign that it will do all it can to protect embattled Syrian President Bashar Assad.

Ali Akbar Velayati, an aide to Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, made his comments as Syrian troops conducted offensive air raids against rebels and discovered a trio of tunnels they were using to smuggle weapons in their fight to topple Assad.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by miked

Well, in New Mexico they proposed a law to make getting an abortion be a felony for tampering with evidence. These guys just can't stop talking about rape if they glued their mouths shut. Let's not forget the doof from Georgia (who is an OB doctor) that said there was truth to what Akin said.

Oh yes, I read about that. "Every sperm is sacred...". Yea, that OB just proves that you don't have to be smart to get a degree or a doctorate, just act normal long enough to pass all your tests and qualifications, then let the crazy out.

It's amazing how much rape is on the GOP minds. I mean, this is really getting to the point of it being extremely, extremely creepy.

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

fifty.

Nice round number.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by miked

Well, in New Mexico they proposed a law to make getting an abortion be a felony for tampering with evidence. These guys just can't stop talking about rape if they glued their mouths shut. Let's not forget the doof from Georgia (who is an OB doctor) that said there was truth to what Akin said.

Difference is, Akin said "you can't get pregnant if it's legitimate rape blah blah"

The Georgia dude was talking specifically about ovulation - that if ovulation is due to happen, but hasn't yet, the stress of a rape environment tends to inhibit ovulation. That's not the same thing as YOU CAN'T GET PREGNANT IF YOU'RE RAPED HURR, if for no other reason than that such an explanation, however true or false, has nothing to do with victims of rape who have already ovulated and are fertile.

I mean, I don't want to be in the position of defending these dorks, and the Georgia guy really should know when to leave well enough alone, but there is a difference between Akin's blanket idiocy and the GA OB's "well, under this particular set of circumstances..."

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by stevew

For Their Next Trick, Democrats Will Turn Texas into a Blue State

Interesting read on Texas politics.

Not saying it couldn't happen, but Texas Republicans do a much better job of catering to the Hispanic vote than the broader party. Rick Perry is pretty liberal on immigration policy and one of the senators is Hispanic and Republican. Not saying it can't happen, but the perceived antagonism isn't the same issue it is nationally. 94/94 in state elections since 94 is a thought track record to beat.

[miked]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Difference is, Akin said "you can't get pregnant if it's legitimate rape blah blah"

The Georgia dude was talking specifically about ovulation - that if ovulation is due to happen, but hasn't yet, the stress of a rape environment tends to inhibit ovulation. That's not the same thing as YOU CAN'T GET PREGNANT IF YOU'RE RAPED HURR, if for no other reason than that such an explanation, however true or false, has nothing to do with victims of rape who have already ovulated and are fertile.

I mean, I don't want to be in the position of defending these dorks, and the Georgia guy really should know when to leave well enough alone, but there is a difference between Akin's blanket idiocy and the GA OB's "well, under this particular set of circumstances..."

Actually, he said the woman's body has ways of shutting it down, which has no scientific basis. The stress of rape doesn't prevent ovulation and there are studies showing stress can induce it. It's faulty science and medicine from elected officials who serve on science and medicine committees.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Not saying it couldn't happen, but Texas Republicans do a much better job of catering to the Hispanic vote than the broader party. Rick Perry is pretty liberal on immigration policy and one of the senators is Hispanic and Republican. Not saying it can't happen, but the perceived antagonism isn't the same issue it is nationally. 94/94 in state elections since 94 is a thought track record to beat.

There is a massive disconnect between the statewide offices and the local city/county offices. There just isn't any money made available to Democrats running for statewide office. Take for example in the last Governor's race, the Democratic candidate, Bill White. He'd been an extraordinarily successful mayor of Houston, winning 4 terms, with the last two of them garnering over 85% of the vote. But when it came to running for governor, he was massively outspent by Perry, and only got 42% of the vote.

[Edward64]

I really like #2 -- awarding greencards to immigrants with advanced degrees in science, math, technology and engineering.

I never understood why US did not encourage the immigration of other countries best and brightest (assuming they pass some sort of background, security check and/or have some sort of limitation to national security companies/projects). These are the ones least likely to be a burden on US society and it helps US and hurts our global competitors.

Bipartisan plan targets 11 million illegal immigrants

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I really like #2 -- awarding greencards to immigrants with advanced degrees in science, math, technology and engineering.

You're missing the last part of '2' out however - it states "American University" ... which implies it'd ignore qualifications from other countries.

I don't think America has a big 'brain drain' problem (ie. people from the country leaving to work in other countries) - but obviously its not going to help with regards to a short-fall in specific areas as its written, its ironic really seeing as there is a specific exemption for low-skilled workers in areas where there is a big skill short-fall.

[JPhillips]

I like to think of it as the American University Recovery Act.

It sounds good, but I don't think the specifics are workable. Would an M.A. from an on-line only institution count? How are STEM programs defined? Doesn't this encourage colleges to develop low intensity science M.A. programs and fill them with full paying foreign students looking for access to the U.S.?

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I really like #2 -- awarding greencards to immigrants with advanced degrees in science, math, technology and engineering.

I never understood why US did not encourage the immigration of other countries best and brightest (assuming they pass some sort of background, security check and/or have some sort of limitation to national security companies/projects). These are the ones least likely to be a burden on US society and it helps US and hurts our global competitors.

Bipartisan plan targets 11 million illegal immigrants

#4 will cover me. While I've got paperwork (most likely fake) on all my employees, I've let them know that if/when this passes, it's no more stupid BS. One guy lied to us about how many kids he has and now he's got a nice hefty IRS bill to pay.

[molson]

That's how German immigration works I think. If you're not EU, you have to be educated and skilled.

It's hard to see it fly here because the party who's more pro-immigration generally also tries to position itself as the party of the poor and unlucky in life, it's hard to see a "discriminatory" immigration policy as part of their platform. It might be a smart strategy for Republicans though.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

You're missing the last part of '2' out however - it states "American University" ... which implies it'd ignore qualifications from other countries.

I don't think America has a big 'brain drain' problem (ie. people from the country leaving to work in other countries) - but obviously its not going to help with regards to a short-fall in specific areas as its written, its ironic really seeing as there is a specific exemption for low-skilled workers in areas where there is a big skill short-fall.

I'm okay with just a American University. I know its not equitable but it implies foreign students have the (1) likely motivation to want to stay in the US (2) have some financial means to stay in the US and (3) hopefully they become more attuned to US (for better or worse) culture, beliefs etc.

US does not have a "brain drain" problem as you describe but I do still consider it a "brain drain" because they come, get educated and return home and take their talent with them because of US immigration short sightedness.

Ultimately it would be great if we can be more like the Canadians on immigration, but I'll take this intermediate step over status quo.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I like to think of it as the American University Recovery Act.

It sounds good, but I don't think the specifics are workable. Would an M.A. from an on-line only institution count? How are STEM programs defined? Doesn't this encourage colleges to develop low intensity science M.A. programs and fill them with full paying foreign students looking for access to the U.S.?

Valid questions, don't know. But better than status quo - we have a wealth of US trained foreign talent taking their knowledge home with them.

[molson]

I wonder what the effect of any half-ass "gun control" measures will be v. the huge gun industry boom that's going on now. Maybe Obama is secretly beholden to the gun lobby? (P.S., I don't think Obama is secretly beholden to the gun lobby, I'm just making fun of conspirators.) One thing I do believe is true though, the anti-gun culture backlash will result in more guns on the streets and more first-time gun owners. And actually, I think Obama and the more reasonable gun control advocates understand this risk and its part of why their approach has been much more measured and balanced than the more general hysteria and gun owner-bashing popular on message boards and amongst some commentators. The boom has been going on pretty much since Obama took office.

Gun makers, sellers in New England overwhelmed with orders for firearms, ammunition before new restrictions - Business - Boston.com

[stevew]

Our awesomist bestest friend allies are sweet. It's like the reboot of the Tuskegee Experiment or something.

Israel admits Ethiopian Jewish immigrants were given birth control shots - Salon.com

Israel has admitted that it has been giving Ethiopian Jewish immigrants birth control injections, according to a report in Haaretz. An Israeli investigative journalist also found that a majority of the women given these shots say they were administered without their knowledge or consent.

Health Ministry Director General Prof. Ron Gamzu acknowledged the practice — without directly conceding coercion was involved — in a letter to Israeli health maintenance organizations, instructing gynecologists in the HMOs “not to renew prescriptions for Depo-Provera for women of Ethiopian origin if for any reason there is concern that they might not understand the ramifications of the treatment.”

Depo-Provera is a hormonal form of birth control that is injected every three months.

Gamzu issued the letter in response to a complaint from Sharona Eliahu-Chai of the Association of Civil Rights in Israel. Representing several women’s rights and Ethiopian immigrant groups, Eliahu-Chai demanded an immediate end to the injections and that an investigation be launched into the practice.

In addition to Eliahu-Chai, Gal Gabbay, an investigative journalist who had interviewed 35 Ethiopian immigrants, found that while the women were still in transit camps in Ethiopia they were sometimes intimidated or threatened into taking the Depo-Provera shot, often being misled about why. “They told us they are inoculations,” said one of the women interviewed. “They told us people who frequently give birth suffer. We took it every three months. We said we didn’t want to.”

Birth rates and demographics in Israel are often political, and Israel has historically focused on promoting Jewish birthrates to retain a Jewish majority, according to a recent New York Times report on fertility and in-vetro fertilization in the country.

But Ethiopian Jews remain a marginalized group, often living in highly segregated communities. Because of this, many women’s and immigrant rights advocates believe that the 50 percent decline over the past 10 years in the birthrate of Israel’s Ethiopian community is the result of the Israeli government’s attempt to limit and restrict Ethiopian women’s fertility through forcible birth control injections.

Hedva Eyal, head of the Women and Technologies Project for Israeli feminist organization Isha L’Isha, had submitted a report six years ago to the Israeli government showing a disproportionate number of birth control shots — 60 percent — were being given to Ethiopian immigrants. She says she was met with silence, until now.

“The ease with which a woman’s testimony is dismissed — certainly that of a black woman and a poor black woman at that — is shocking,” Eyal told the Los Angeles Times.

Also hoping Israel’s health minister will take further action, Eyal added that the bottom line was that “decisions about women’s health and fertility can and must be made by the women alone.” For that, they must have full and fair access to all relevant information “and that did not seem to have been the case,” she said.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by stevew

Our awesomist bestest friend allies are sweet. It's like the reboot of the Tuskegee Experiment or something.

Israel admits Ethiopian Jewish immigrants were given birth control shots - Salon.com

But the Holocaust happened so you can't question anything the Israeli government does or else you are siding with Hitler and evil. Just like this story from the other day. Somehow since the Holocaust happened you can't make a political cartoon about the misdeeds of the modern (two/three generations removed) government.

Murdoch apologies for "offensive" Netanyahu cartoon - Yahoo! News

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by panerd

But the Holocaust happened so you can't question anything the Israeli government does or else you are siding with Hitler and evil.

Agreeed. It's quite possibly my single largest frustration with American foreign policy.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Agreeed. It's quite possibly my single largest frustration with American foreign policy.

And I am quite aware that the United States alliance is based as much/more on access to energy and the Middle East as it is to the Jewish plight but I get really frustrated how any discussion involving Israel always boils down to anti-semitism whenever it goes against them. (Very similar to racism cries here in the United States but that is a whole other can of worms)

[Passacaglia]

The fuck? Some people are Chosen, but some people are more Chosen than others.

[JPhillips]

Big surprise in MA. Scott Brown says he won't run in the special election to fill Kerry's seat.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Big surprise in MA. Scott Brown says he won't run in the special election to fill Kerry's seat.

Where's the forum's "Like" button?

[JPhillips]

At worst I thought he was even money to take Kerry's seat. I guess he's decided to cash in on being a Senator as a lobbyist or speaker.

[larrymcg421]

And all that work McCain and Graham did to open up that seat for him goes to waste.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I like to think of it as the American University Recovery Act.

It sounds good, but I don't think the specifics are workable. Would an M.A. from an on-line only institution count? How are STEM programs defined? Doesn't this encourage colleges to develop low intensity science M.A. programs and fill them with full paying foreign students looking for access to the U.S.?

I'm guessing they would have to be accredited universities.

[ISiddiqui]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/01/inve...ets/index.html

The Dow is 200 points from its all time high. Man, that Obama has been horrible for the economy .

[finketr]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/01/inve...ets/index.html

The Dow is 200 points from its all time high. Man, that Obama has been horrible for the economy .

right.. and all of the Americans who have dropped out of the labor force. I'm sure they agree with you.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/01/inve...ets/index.html

The Dow is 200 points from its all time high. Man, that Obama has been horrible for the economy .

America's Main Street is different than Wall Street.

[ISiddiqui]

So why is not that great when it was everything in economic performance in the 90s and 2000s?

[stevew]

Gas has increased in price about 5 of the last 10 days I've worked. But yay corporations!

[larrymcg421]

So is the complaint now that Obama's policies have been more effective corporations than the middle to lower class Americans? I'd probably be sympathetic to that argument, but it's pretty much the exact opposite argument we've heard for the last 4 years.

[molson]

I think if you're going to try to tie Obama (or any president) personally to either the positives of the stock market, or the negatives of the job market, or really anything economic, you need some specific action or inaction to support the tie-in. The U.S. is not like some big text sim that the president controls every detail of.

[Dutch]

Obama boosted the economy by mandating that every single last gun not privately owned be purchased immediately.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by finketr

right.. and all of the Americans who have dropped out of the labor force. I'm sure they agree with you.

Those people aren't going to get their jobs back. They've been replaced by machines. There's a strong part of me that wonders if we are better off stopping machine jobs to make sure people have money to spend. Machines seem to be great at helping to save money but they don't spend any and that's going to be a major issue going forward.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rowech

Those people aren't going to get their jobs back. They've been replaced by machines. There's a strong part of me that wonders if we are better off stopping machine jobs to make sure people have money to spend. Machines seem to be great at helping to save money but they don't spend any and that's going to be a major issue going forward.

The problem isn't the machines, it's that people wised up on how to use them & how easily humans could be replaced.

We don't have a job shortage, we have excess population.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The problem isn't the machines, it's that people wised up on how to use them & how easily humans could be replaced.

We don't have a job shortage, we have excess population.

Time for Soylent Green?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Time for Soylent Green?

Wasn't that more of a food shortage issue than a population control issue?

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Wasn't that more of a food shortage issue than a population control issue?

I think was both, but, I need to see the movie again. Been a while.

[molson]

Someday we'll have a moment of global awareness and we'll realize than an army of robot slaves doing all our work for us is actually a great thing. Fuck jobs.

[cuervo72]

Maybe we need to start exporting people to countries that need labor.

(Or colonization. Whichever works.)

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by molson

Someday we'll have a moment of global awareness and we'll realize than an army of robot slaves doing all our work for us is actually a great thing. Fuck jobs.

Machines should work. People should think.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Wasn't that more of a food shortage issue than a population control issue?

And living space too I think. Every nice apartment doubled up with a significant other.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

We don't have a job shortage, we have excess population.

I don't think its excess population.

Unfortunately, its a group of people that was not able to (or didn't want to) learn new, different or improve skills needed. The economy has moved past them and they can't catch up.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Obama boosted the economy by mandating that every single last gun not privately owned be purchased immediately.

Don't forget the ammunition. I think all 9mm and .223 were bought up also.

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I don't think its excess population.

Unfortunately, its a group of people that was not able to (or didn't want to) learn new, different or improve skills needed. The economy has moved past them and they can't catch up.

Here's a recent AP piece on both the jobs-machine angle and the challenges the pace of technological change is creating for the economy: http://news.yahoo.com/ap-impact-rece...--finance.html. It paints a somewhat pessimistic picture of the future for many existing industries, especially those providing so-called 'middle class jobs.'

[larrymcg421]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.1255014

And John McCain shreds the little bit of dignity he had left.

[Edward64]

Not good. There will be endless "short-term" patches. I don't think any progress has been made at all since early Jan.

Obama calls for short-term fix to imminent spending cuts - CNN.com

President Barack Obama called on Tuesday for a short-term agreement to put off deep cuts to government spending, including the military, set to take effect next month.

Obama made his pitch in a statement to reporters at the White House, urging Congress to pass a measure that would offset some of the imminent automatic spending cuts -- known as sequestration -- that were part of a 2011 debt ceiling deal.

The president made clear that he still wanted a broader deficit reduction agreement with Republicans that included spending cuts, entitlement reforms and increased revenue from eliminating some tax breaks.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.1255014

And John McCain shreds the little bit of dignity he had left.

I dunno. I've never heard monkey being used to refer to an Arab. It appears McCain was calling Ahmadinejad a monkey because he considers him a fool.