The Trump Presidency – 2016

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by stevew

#3 almost has to involve OJ Simpson ?

Just from a business perspective, doesn't it make sense for OJ to go full MAGA?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Just from a business perspective, doesn't it make sense for OJ to go full MAGA?

Yup, he could make a killing.

[Thomkal]

Boy Fox and Republicans want to make sure that we believe their side of the Volker meeting with House Intel today. Repubs have been briefing Fox/conservative media during the meeting that Volker said nothing that would improve the Dems chances for impeachment. Somehow I think the Dem response will be different...

[PilotMan]

Volker ain't nothing man. He's got some knowledge, but he's only going to give the legal minimum and nothing more.

[JPhillips]

Dems need to realize that the majority of the GOP is more than willing to sacrifice democracy in order to retain power. Watching the GOP's reaction to Trump now openly and obviously ordering crimes is depressing. I'm really not sure we can easily go back to the democratic norms we are losing.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Dems need to realize that the majority of the GOP is more than willing to sacrifice democracy in order to retain power. Watching the GOP's reaction to Trump now openly and obviously ordering crimes is depressing. I'm really not sure we can easily go back to the democratic norms we are losing.

For sure. The damage that has been done these last almost 3 years will take years to repair and the sooner President* Cadet Bonespurs and his crime family are gone, the sooner we can start to fix things.

[JPhillips]

But it's not just Trump. Pence, Pompeo, the GOP Senate, the RNC, McCarthy and the rest of the House. There's literally only one nationally elected GOPer that's even come out in favor of an investigation.

I'll ask the same question I did earlier, how does the GOP ever go back to "normal?"

[Edward64]

1) House will vote to impeach
2) Senate will not confirm it
3) Trump stays on rest of term

If Trump gets re-elected, then impeachment attempt won't mean much. He will have been reaffirmed despite all the baggage (e.g. no one will be able to say I didn't know how he was).

Not sure of the timing of the impeachment. On one hand, it would be better if Pelosi can drag this out so the impeachment process isn't old news by election time (unsure, maybe 2Q 2020?).

But quicker may be better, I would be concerned in the loss of momentum because we all know how easily distracted anti-Trumper's are with a new Trump scandal.

Leaning towards the latter.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

But it's not just Trump. Pence, Pompeo, the GOP Senate, the RNC, McCarthy and the rest of the House. There's literally only one nationally elected GOPer that's even come out in favor of an investigation.

I'll ask the same question I did earlier, how does the GOP ever go back to "normal?"

Very true. Pretty much the whole lot is spoiled. I don't think they do go back, they will run out any of the remaining 'normal' GOPers. They hitched their wagon to the trump train wreck and are more than happy to ride through the Great Derailment as if it's some kind of badge of honor.

Don't get me wrong though, if this was the democrats doing this, I would be yelling for their heads too. No one should be getting away this.

[Kodos]

I imagine the Republicans would vote to remove him if it could be proven somehow that DELETED EMAILS WERE INVOLVED!

[PilotMan]

There's a whole lot of angry D's out there too, I for one, who won't accept anything other than dirty fighting as long as R's like McConnell (and Graham) are in charge. There's no reason other than to protect yourself. The Garland fuckaroo solidified that for me. So there is no bottom in that regard. Next, how does the Dem party recover from that? That kind of thinking will lead to damage for the country too. It's going to take some high level trust and bi partisanship from the Millennials to fix it, because it won't happen with my generation.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Dems need to realize that the majority of the GOP is more than willing to sacrifice democracy in order to retain power. Watching the GOP's reaction to Trump now openly and obviously ordering crimes is depressing. I'm really not sure we can easily go back to the democratic norms we are losing.

I think this might be the legitimately the end of the Republic. If he declared himself "President for Life" before the next election, Moscow Mitch would make sure he can not be removed. I don't think there is anyway to stop this. I have hit a level of disgust and despair that is beyond anything I have ever felt about my country.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

There's a whole lot of angry D's out there too, I for one, who won't accept anything other than dirty fighting as long as R's like McConnell (and Graham) are in charge. There's no reason other than to protect yourself. The Garland fuckaroo solidified that for me. So there is no bottom in that regard. Next, how does the Dem party recover from that? That kind of thinking will lead to damage for the country too. It's going to take some high level trust and bi partisanship from the Millennials to fix it, because it won't happen with my generation.

Such a long list of outright blatant fuckery has been going on and with how much, I totally forgot about what happened with Garland. We live in Bizzaro Universe. I would really love to see the dems punch back just as hard, if not harder and see how the other side of the aisle likes it. I'm with you, I feel it's going to be up to the millenials and gen y & z to turn the tide back to decency.

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I think this might be the legitimately the end of the Republic. If he declared himself "President for Life" before the next election, Moscow Mitch would make sure he can not be removed. I don't think there is anyway to stop this. I have hit a level of disgust and despair that is beyond anything I have ever felt about my country.

All I can say is, make sure you vote. Make sure your friends and family vote and vote at every level of government. Don't play the purity test game if a candidate doesn't check all the boxes for you. If they check only some of the boxes, that's ok, no candidate will ever be perfect. Short of an armed revolution, voting is the weapon we have to insure that this country doesn't end up with a 2 bit dictator like Putin or Duarte and to also hold those who we voted in, accountable for their actions.

[JediKooter]

I think my ironymeter just broke: GOP Amplified Biden's Call to Oust Ukraine's Chief Prosecutor | Law & Crime

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

...
All I can say is, make sure you vote. Make sure your friends and family vote and vote at every level of government. Don't play the purity test game if a candidate doesn't check all the boxes for you. If they check only some of the boxes, that's ok, no candidate will ever be perfect. Short of an armed revolution, voting is the weapon we have to insure that this country doesn't end up with a 2 bit dictator like Putin or Duarte and to also hold those who we voted in, accountable for their actions.

I hope voting will matter. But if our elected officials will ignore open and blatant lawlessness, are they above ignoring the results of an election? Just have Trump repeat over and over again, "I won. All votes against me are false made up by the deep state. Don't trust the media that says I lost." Or maybe he just gives the Russians a back door to the election machines so they can just set the numbers they like. Putin wins elections by 90%, right? Why can't Trump?

[ISiddiqui]

I think the military may remove him in that case.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think the military may remove him in that case.

On whose orders?

[ISiddiqui]

Generals, Joint Chiefs... it'd be a coup, no doubt. But coup to put in place the election winner.

[PilotMan]

If you're a good leader who wins, and wins a lot, you win with 90% of the vote. It's that simple.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Generals, Joint Chiefs... it'd be a coup, no doubt. But coup to put in place the election winner.

Why would we think they would do that though? Literally every person who has been in a position to do something, anything, about Trump has been unwilling to do it.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I hope voting will matter. But if our elected officials will ignore open and blatant lawlessness, are they above ignoring the results of an election? Just have Trump repeat over and over again, "I won. All votes against me are false made up by the deep state. Don't trust the media that says I lost." Or maybe he just gives the Russians a back door to the election machines so they can just set the numbers they like. Putin wins elections by 90%, right? Why can't Trump?

With this administration, it is unfortunately something that is plausible. How likely? I don't know, but, he always seems to push the envelope, so I wouldn't be surprised. Anyone that doesn't vote in this next round of elections, is just as complicit as the Senate, the AG & his cronies, in aiding and abetting this administration, in my opinion.

And not to sound too much like the gun fetishists on the right, if it does happen, that is when we exercise our 2nd Amendment rights. It took a revolution to create this country, it might have to take a revolution to save it. Though I would hope that would only happen after we have exhausted all other options. Remember to re-verify you are still registered to vote, vote paper ballot only and personally hand it in. I'm optimistic that good will prevail.

[ISiddiqui]

Because if he loses the election and fails the vacate the premises, I'm betting the military, who until this point hasn't really been in a position to "do" anything will step forward to save the Republic.

At the very least, if you think they are in it for themselves, to stave off a literal Civil War as blue states would attempt to leave the Union (or declare themselves to be the real US) if Trump refused to leave office.

[Edward64]

I guess its a possibility that Trump won't leave voluntarily if he loses but think that is more pessimistic/conspiracy like than I can believe.

If it is a close race (e.g. one state with hanging chads) then I can see it dragging out. If its by a comfortable margin, no doubt he will leave or will be forced to leave by Supreme Court/Congress and if needed ... military.

[JPhillips]

Trump will leave if he loses. The bigger danger is the next guy who has a lust for power like Trump but isn't lazy/stupid. A guy like Josh Hawley could really do a lot of damage.

But if Trump wins in 2020 I don't know what happens to the country. First, the reaction to it would be very bad. Then, Trump would be completely unrestrained and impeachment wouldn't be a threat.

[Thomkal]

Volker is in his 9th hour of testimony. So yeah Republicans about that nothing helpful to the Dems impeachment cause...

[spleen1015]

I seriously believe he won't leave if he loses the election. He will fight it every way possible. Look at what he is doing now. It is going to be ugly.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I seriously believe he won't leave if he loses the election. He will fight it every way possible. Look at what he is doing now. It is going to be ugly.

I think he hopes that his supporters will rise up and protect him when he loses. But I think its mostly a bluff. He will try to fight with lawsuits because that's what he does, He's a bully who easily backs down when enough people stand against him.


My hope is that Congress/Law Enforcement are working on a plan to insure he leaves and most importantly preserve as much evidence as possible so that as many people that helped him are caught

[JPhillips]

At the end of the day he's a blustering coward. He may scream and yell, but when it's time he'll sneak out early so he doesn't have to shake hands with the new president.

[JPhillips]

dola

Rick Perry expected to resign. There are rumors about possible spending to benefit his wife, but I haven't seen anything concrete. In the end, though, everything Trump touches, dies.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

At the end of the day he's a blustering coward. He may scream and yell, but when it's time he'll sneak out early so he doesn't have to shake hands with the new president.

I expect him to try every single legal challenge a lawyer can think of but that's it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I expect him to try every single legal challenge a lawyer can think of but that's it.

I agree. But I also expect him to find a way out of office before the inauguration if he loses. I can't see him shaking hands with the dem that beats him.

[JPhillips]

“The Financial Times contacted all 53 Republican senators on Thursday to ask if they were concerned that Mr Trump had encouraged China, a US adversary, to investigate the Bidens... not one of the members responded via their staff to express any concern.”

This is the kind of thing that makes me think we're at the precipice of a dark abyss. This can't be okay in a functioning democracy.

[PilotMan]

And...it's not like the Biden's are the biggest priority that you know are just dirty and crooked. No history, no priors, etc. Yet, we're supposed to believe that they are so bad, that entire nations have to pull resources to try and capture their wrongdoings. I mean, really? What I really think is that trump is dirty and has been dirty for so long, he knows all about all the shit that people try and figures that everyone is dirty, so there's bound to be something out there on them.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Yup, he could make a killing.

This deserved more love. /Golfclap

[JPhillips]

From House Intel released documents:

VOLKER text w/ Ukrainian official, JULY 25, ahead of the Trump-Zelensky call: “Heard from White House—assuming President Z convinces trump he will investigation/ “get to the bottom of what happened” in 2016, we will nail down date for visit to Washington.”

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I agree. But I also expect him to find a way out of office before the inauguration if he loses. I can't see him shaking hands with the dem that beats him.

He'd go to Florida for Christmas 2020 to golf and never go back to DC if it's a clear defeat. Won't resign for Pence to turn the keys over, just won't go back.

[thesloppy]

Sasse breaks with Trump's call for probe: 'Americans don't look to Chinese commies for the truth' | TheHill

Thank God for this guy's...uhhh...deeply rooted racism? Gotta take what you get from the GOP right now.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

From House Intel released documents:

https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/_ca...s-10-03-19.pdf

[Atocep]

Jim Jordan said there's nothing there so no need to read them.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Jim Jordan said there's nothing there so no need to read them.

I think we know now why he was trying to get ahead of the reporting

[Atocep]

Earlier in this thread I compared Trump to Slobodan Milosevic. That's looking more accurate by the day.

[JPhillips]

Trump signed an executive order yesterday that includes this:

The Secretary, in consultation with the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, shall submit to the President, through the Assistants to the President for Domestic and Economic Policy, a report within 180 days from the date of this order that identifies approaches to modify Medicare FFS payments to more closely reflect the prices paid for services in MA and the commercial insurance market, to encourage more robust price competition, and otherwise to inject market pricing into Medicare FFS reimbursement.

Most likely nothing comes from this, but Trump is asking for Medicare reimbursement rates to go way up so that they match private insurance rates. In essence, it's a giant giveaway to providers that will put the USA in even more debt.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Trump signed an executive order yesterday that includes this:



Most likely nothing comes from this, but Trump is asking for Medicare reimbursement rates to go way up so that they match private insurance rates. In essence, it's a giant giveaway to providers that will put the USA in even more debt.

What it really does is take away the pricing advantage that Medicare offers in order to "poison the well" on the Democratic Candidate promises of Medicare for all. Making any other sort of plan for universal coverage have to be a clean slate so to speak.


And of course, it does all that other stuff you said too.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

dola

In the end, though, everything Trump touches, dies.

To add to that...everything he touches is basically a failure and that's with him usually CHEATING. He can't even game the system without screwing it up. He is the anti-Midas and the worst part, the worst part, this was all known for decades prior to 2016.

[JPhillips]

Sen Cornyn tweeted that the Dept of Justice is now investigating Biden.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

What it really does is take away the pricing advantage that Medicare offers in order to "poison the water" on the Democratic Candidate promises of Medicare for all. Making any other sort of plan for universal coverage have to be a clean slate so to speak.


And of course, it does all that other stuff you said too.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I'm ignorant to the majority of the discussion, honestly.

I definitely see the point you make, however wouldn't it also in theory increase the number of providers who accept Medicare hence making a transition to Universal Medicare easier?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

however wouldn't it also in theory increase the number of providers who accept Medicare hence making a transition to Universal Medicare easier?

Under the right circumstances I could certainly see where the path to is becomes easier. I agree with that. But still, like JPhillips said, the cost of the program jumps astronomically, and they have to make substantial cuts to the program to it can be 'funded' appropriately. Which also works to whittle away at the current benefits offered.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Under the right circumstances I could certainly see where the path to is becomes easier. I agree with that. But still, like JPhillips said, the cost of the program jumps astronomically, and they have to make substantial cuts to the program to it can be 'funded' appropriately. Which also works to whittle away at the current benefits offered.

And again I haven't followed this debate.
I am just looking at it from the stand point of I'm a care primary care provider for an elder relative. We have tailor our doctor choice based o who accepts medicare. Supposedly because of how poor medicare pays. And locally the doctors that do accept it (we travel to Charlotte ofr her care not some podunk backwoods town with 1 provider) have longer appointment wait times than those that dont. During bouts of flare ups I have actually paid out of pocket to see alternate providers who could see us sooner. (Blessed to have that ability) who did not accept medicare.

So is it even logical to add more people to a system that is already over burdened?

I'd think increasing pay would add more providers and make it more feasible to make it universal.

I'm not arguing a position. I havent researched this, nor do I plan to in the immediate future, nor am I versed in the sides of the debate. I'm just asking a question based on my personal experience.

Ive long said we need healthcare reform somehow some way I just admit Im not smart enough to know what that looks like. Intrinsically when I think of Universal care/single payer..right or wrong I think about the 14 week appointment lead time nightmare we fight with Nana everytime and see that becoming across all platforms and it scares me.

Edit: How ironic and totally fitting would it be for Trump to force something that he intended to pad the pockets of big business which in turn actually opens the door for the opposite side?

[ISiddiqui]

Under a single payer/M4A, all the providers would have to accept those forms of insurance, which should decrease those wait times. Of course, the counter could be if Medicare reimbursement is so low some of those providers may go out of business - however, I do know that doctors tend to make quite a bit of money, so perhaps the margins aren't so tight (OTOH, I know urban doctors, not rural doctors). So it may meet somewhere in the middle.

I also know that my preferred health care provider (Emory in Atlanta) has ungodly long wait times. When I had to get an endoscopy last year, they said the first appointment was 3 months out. When I try to call to schedule something with my primary care doctor, I sometimes get told his first availability is 2 weeks. I can skirt around it by directly messaging him in the patient portal (in a way that doesn't go to his 'team', but directly to him) and he'll double book to get me in, but appointment lead times is definitely something that occurs in the private field.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Under a single payer/M4A, all the providers would have to accept those forms of insurance, which should decrease those wait times. Of course, the counter could be if Medicare reimbursement is so low some of those providers may go out of business - however, I do know that doctors tend to make quite a bit of money, so perhaps the margins aren't so tight (OTOH, I know urban doctors, not rural doctors). So it may meet somewhere in the middle.

I also know that my preferred health care provider (Emory in Atlanta) has ungodly long wait times. When I had to get an endoscopy last year, they said the first appointment was 3 months out. When I try to call to schedule something with my primary care doctor, I sometimes get told his first availability is 2 weeks. I can skirt around it by directly messaging him in the patient portal (in a way that doesn't go to his 'team', but directly to him) and he'll double book to get me in, but appointment lead times is definitely something that occurs in the private field.

My counter in support of the doctors, because it's not about the doctors, it's about the medical industry as a whole, is that if someone came along and said, the US is starting a new airline booking program to help people afford to travel. And this program could sell a few seats of every flight for super cheap rates, and there was support out there to just make every company have to book all their seats at the same rates, and the justification was well, pilots make a lot of money, so they can probably afford to do that, I'd probably be more than a little justified in being upset about it.