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Old 04-13-2013, 03:03 PM   #19101
britrock88
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Hmm. I Google image "gulls" and get skua.
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:04 PM   #19102
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Originally Posted by Ben E Lou View Post
100% transparency:

I told some folks a very short time ago (either this week or last, not sure exactly when,) that I would leave FOF MP and FOFC for good probably this fall if there was no white smoke from Ann Arbor by then. And then Jim announced this week that there would be a new FOF. Go figure. (I have no idea if my comments got back to him, but I seriously doubt it. Just a crazy coincidence.) Anyway, that announcement has very much re-invigorated my interest in both FOFC and FOF MP. I even posted in a couple of OT threads the last few days.

I hope you do stay around on the FOF board and in the FOFC community forever. I think its just the off-topic board you've described in the past as a "wasteland" that causes you a fair amount of annoyance. And I think the other mods feel the same way.
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:06 PM   #19103
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Originally Posted by cuervo72 View Post
It's a personal problem in that some posters just hate Ben. Ben happens to have a strong personality, and it just doesn't mesh with everybody. At this point, I don't think it matters HOW he moderates - if he takes care of things behind the scenes, or if he states reasons - no course of action is going to suffice.
I don't disagree with the "some posters" part but that's a small minority. I've voiced my concerns when I feel like but I don't hate Ben -- quite the contrary, I like him. He's smart, he's funny, he's made a ton of contributions to the board. He didn't get the role of moderator without earning it. I respect the heck out of him for his personal and professional accomplishments. But I don't have a problem telling a friend when they go to far and make mistakes.

I think it's far too easy to go to far online because it's generally not personal. It's OK to cut Todd off at the knees because you don't know him. And I say that not knowing what Todd said but believing he probably earned the boxing. But you just can't handle it like that.
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And what OF it thriving? Why does this place need to thrive? Play by the rules and enjoy what's here, or don't. It's not like we get bitcoins for FOFC's prosperity. It's not like we have to cultivate membership. We're not in some competition with other game forums. If folks are still here that you like to interact with, do that. If there's not, go where there will be.
Just a personal investment here. The only reason I want FOFC to thrive is that I've enjoyed it, I learn a lot, I get experience to new things and I like the people. I want it to thrive because I like plenty of threads with great engagement from cool people. There are a lot of cool people who don't post here any more, and it's usually been because of arguments like this.
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:10 PM   #19104
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FWIW, I think if Ben shared more info like the post above explaining the boxings, it would be great and calm a lot of people down.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:00 PM   #19105
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Originally Posted by Ben E Lou View Post
100% transparency:

I told some folks a very short time ago (either this week or last, not sure exactly when,) that I would leave FOF MP and FOFC for good probably this fall if there was no white smoke from Ann Arbor by then. And then Jim announced this week that there would be a new FOF. Go figure. (I have no idea if my comments got back to him, but I seriously doubt it. Just a crazy coincidence.) Anyway, that announcement has very much re-invigorated my interest in both FOFC and FOF MP. I even posted in a couple of OT threads the last few days.

Piece of advice for what it's worth...

Don't get so frustrated with modding that you start to feel that you'd leave FOFC "for good" once you're through. I did that - stayed away for 5 years or so (some people probably wish I continued to stay away) - and it didn't need to be that way. Frankly, I let my frustrations with certain folks go on too long to the point that I had to walk away. I could have and should have let go of the board earlier. I could have then stuck around as a normal poster. But I didn't and had to walk away entirely from FOFC, which I helped build into something I was quite proud of. It was a shame, really.

But that's just my story and if you're not walking down the same path then I'm glad for you.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:15 PM   #19106
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Originally Posted by kcchief19 View Post
FWIW, I think if Ben shared more info like the post above explaining the boxings, it would be great and calm a lot of people down.
Fair point. FWIW, I do much better when I perceive (as I do now) that people are wanting to have constructive dialogue, as opposed to wanting to just take potshots and/or stir up trouble.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:08 PM   #19107
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I don't know much about any of the personalities in this discussion, but the "vibe" I get is that BEL loves FOF, and the board - but "Off Topic" is a stresser.

Not sure if it's possible within boards, but, is there a way to grant moderation to (trusted) folks that do enjoy Off Topic, and BEL could run the things he enjoys ? Maybe pop in OT as a poster in topics he cares about, w/o being burdened with modding those he doesn't. Seems like a winning scenario.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:19 PM   #19108
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Originally Posted by Ben E Lou View Post
Eh, there are very few people I just fundamentally dislike, and none of them (to my knowledge) post at FOFC. As is the case with the names of my players in my MP leagues, I don't pay terribly close attention to screen names at forums until the person either does something that impresses me or strikes me as being a particular jerk. There are six people in the box put there by me. Three of them (CrimsonFox, gkb, and Toddzilla,) were completely blank slates to me prior to their suspensions. (To be perfectly honest, gkb still is. All I put under the suspension reason is "inappropriate image." I have no idea what image he posted and don't recall any other interaction with him.) I had neither a positive nor negative impression of any of those three prior to their boxings, and if I weren't typing their names now, would probably forget that they'd ever been boxed if they behaved for the next few months. A fourth, sidthelid, is a long-time troll in the FOF2K7 forum. My mistake there was not giving him a long-term suspension before I finally did. I gave him way too many chances, even allowing him to re-invent himself in the eyes of the community with a new user name and a promise to be good. My fault there for thinking he'd change. I know the fifth, MacroGuru, because he is in the WOOF. I can't recall any conflict he has had with anyone there. I consider him to be a good owner. When we rebooted the league, I'm pretty sure he was on the "A" list of owners invited to return in the first go-around, even though there had been other owners of the franchise he was running. The sixth is Chubby. Yes, I've had conflict with Chubby before. I don't harbor any particular ill will toward him but because I'm aware that he has a grudge against me, I typically just try to avoid interacting with him unless he strikes first. But as cuervo has stated, the fact is that he can't stand me and for a very long time has gone out of his way to try to antagonize me.

Don't you think this is part of the problem? I would think as moderator, owner, whatever, that you would want/need more of a pulse of the OT forum, since it is the largest contributor here. Everyone you referenced are pretty regular posters that have been members for years.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:35 PM   #19109
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And that was solely my point - not just for Ben but for the other mods. All mods should be an active part of this community and if any of them leave (in anger, frustration, wasteland, time comittment, or whatever), then they should pass the duties along to others. We should not and cannot expect Ben to do it all by himself. If a mod is active, then a constructive dialogue can take place; otherwise, it perceives that those from fobl chat and elsewhere do not care about this place and has to grudgingly come over to discipline.

I echo what kcchief and others have said. There are very few boards that I visit but this is the first one I check because I had been doing it for a long time. Recent threads like the iPhone apps one (before it got all racey ) was valuable for me, as well as most gaming threads. And I have enjoyed this thread because I've always enjoyed cool pictures and gifs (except those coming from very slow sites). While I don't share much anymore (quite dismayed by the anti-privacy trend, facebookers included), I have not forgotten what it was like here and the investment we have made together.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:39 PM   #19110
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Originally Posted by Lathum View Post
Don't you think this is part of the problem? I would think as moderator, owner, whatever, that you would want/need more of a pulse of the OT forum, since it is the largest contributor here. Everyone you referenced are pretty regular posters that have been members for years.

Long-time, yes. In fairness though, gkb only has less than 1000 posts, so he's generally pretty quiet. CrimsonFox has 13k, so he's pretty active (though *half* of them are in Werewolf, which I'd guess is even further off Ben's radar than OT). Toddzilla I'd say is definitely higher profile around here.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:46 PM   #19111
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I can't believe Ben didn't recognize Toddzilla. Unreal.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:14 PM   #19112
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And then Jim announced this week that there would be a new FOF.

Wait what? Where is this thread and how did I totally miss it?!?
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:25 PM   #19113
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Wait what? Where is this thread and how did I totally miss it?!?

IIRC, that comment may actually be in this thread somewhere. Easiest way to find it is probably just to check most recent posts by him & work from that (shouldn't be all that many to sort through, it was around mid-week IIRC)
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:25 PM   #19114
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Wait what? Where is this thread and how did I totally miss it?!?

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - POLL: Should we delete the cool images thread?
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:31 PM   #19115
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Originally Posted by Lathum View Post
Don't you think this is part of the problem? I would think as moderator, owner, whatever, that you would want/need more of a pulse of the OT forum, since it is the largest contributor here. Everyone you referenced are pretty regular posters that have been members for years.
Quote:
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I can't believe Ben didn't recognize Toddzilla. Unreal.
To be clear, I definitely recognized the name "Toddzilla." But I had no baggage attached to it mentally. A "blank slate" just means that I had no opinion of him, either positive or negative, and couldn't have told you anything that he'd posted about. My eyes just don't wander to the left to see who posted stuff unless it's particularly notable to me. This isn't new at all. Even when I was reading nearly every post in nearly every thread I couldn't have told you much of anything about the posting habits and styles of more than maybe a couple dozen or so people. It's just not the way I read internet forums. (Maybe it's because I'm used to ignoring the stuff on the left to avoid avatars? I don't really know...)
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Wait what? Where is this thread and how did I totally miss it?!?
It was buried in an unrelated thread, posted on Tuesday, but sounded pretty darned definitive:
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:33 PM   #19116
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I can't believe Ben didn't recognize Toddzilla. Unreal.

Like he said, he only knows those who come across his path good or bad. There are many of us here who I am sure slip under the radar even though we have been here for years. I would probably be one of them except for my time at WOOF.

I have a few thoughts in general, none are really well thought out.

The issues raised are not just the thoughts of a squeaky few or upset trouble makers, they just happen to be the voice of that group. I have been outside of the politics of FOFC for a long time, but even then, it's evident that there are certain social strata within the group in general.

The board in general is in decline. Mostly due to the lack of a new game, but many of us are growing older and life just takes you in a new direction. Still, there are a number of other reasons as well. I do feel like this thread has been "targeted" by someone just for the sake of poking the masses. This thread lived on for years with no problems at all. The issues have been well discussed.

The issues with the moderating are totally legit. I understand the my way or the highway approach but talking down to adults that have been a part of this group for years can't be a step in the right direction.

I would bet that there are a number of people like me who find themselves spending less time here because of the way things have gone, but don't post or feed the drama because it doesn't suit them.

I feel philosophical like Abe does. You spend all this time here, but in the end you'll have nothing to show for it, unless you have made connections outside of here. Even though I feel very connected to all of you right now.

So leaving just for the sake of leaving is a big choice. Which is I guess why there are a number of alternatives popping up here and there (see my sig). But as you all know, Sportsdigs had all this 2 weeks ago.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:34 PM   #19117
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Well since there isn't a shortage of two-cents worth about the board operations & how personalities are involved, I'll throw in mine. Virtually nobody will give a shit but I'd be happier if I were on the record regardless ... and I ain't bashful about indulging just to make myself a little happier.

I like Ben, consider him a friend. He knows that my preferred style of moderation & his are very different things, we established that years ago. Somehow we manage to get past that fact with hardly a ripple, and no ripples worth either of us considering for more than about two seconds.

I'm not crazy about the work of the other moderators as a group, I won't even begin to try to single out any of them (honestly I try to forget they exist as much as possible). I've done essentially the same job elsewhere, I know the ups & downs of it and I'm not suggesting for a second that it's easy ... I've just reached the point where I honestly feel like overall they're doing more harm to the board as moderators than good. I know the pitfalls that come up with long term modding & think a reset might be a good thing ... but probably wouldn't be considerably better.

An elephant is a mouse designed by committee, and once the moderation community grows beyond one person, inconsistencies seem almost inevitable.Ultimately "hell is other people" (and yeah, I know that quote is used out of the original context) and there's a whole lotta of "other people" here. The friction, strife, etc. is pretty much inevitable.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:43 PM   #19118
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ironically, it was in the thread debating whether or not this thread should be deleted

edit: well about 20 people posted since i answered that question.

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Old 04-13-2013, 07:08 PM   #19119
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ironically, it was in the thread debating whether or not this thread should be deleted

edit: well about 20 people posted since i answered that question.

Squirrel!!!
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:15 PM   #19120
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It's a message board. Read stuff, and then go live your life. Do not let this place become your reality. Type "tits" into your google search and enjoy.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:25 PM   #19121
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Type "tits" into your google search and enjoy.

I think that's sorta kinda how things devolved around here in the first place
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:13 PM   #19122
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It's a message board. Read stuff, and then go live your life. Do not let this place become your reality. Type "tits" into your google search and enjoy.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:19 PM   #19123
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:45 PM   #19124
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It's a message board. Read stuff, and then go live your life. Do not let this place become your reality. Type "tits" into your google search and enjoy.

Everybody realizes its a message board. Nobody needs fofc to live. Having opinions about the board or any of the other topics discussed here isn't inconsistent with that. Kobe's injury isn't our "reality" either.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:52 PM   #19125
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This thread used to be sooooooo much fun, now it's just me hitting pg dn through all the BS to see one ridiculously stupid photo.


And with that...good night.

Last edited by cuervo72 : 04-14-2013 at 10:21 AM. Reason: as much as it appeals to me, uh-uh
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:01 PM   #19126
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It's a message board. Read stuff, and then go live your life. Do not let this place become your reality. Type "tits" into your google search and enjoy.

I would prefer to have my tits delivered to me on a platter, thanks
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:23 AM   #19127
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Sweet phone!
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:57 AM   #19128
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I would like to propose a new moderating system. The number of Bens it takes to remove all objectionable material from a picture is the number of weeks you get boxed. Sublimes picture is a 6 Ben Offense, so six weeks.


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Old 04-14-2013, 08:32 AM   #19129
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This thread used to be sooooooo much fun, now it's just me hitting pg dn through all the BS to see one ridiculously stupid photo.

And with that...good night.

Good morning!

Last edited by cuervo72 : 04-14-2013 at 10:21 AM. Reason: also wik
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:18 PM   #19130
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waffle.jpg

Waffle dipped in blue food coloring, for added eye appeal.
Tasty breakfast item, either plain, or with a little maple syrup, butter is also optional.

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Old 04-14-2013, 06:10 PM   #19131
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man, fuck that waffle
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:51 PM   #19132
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Fuck a plain waffle, that's for sure.

Fuck a plain waffle, coming straight from the underground.
That waffle's blue, but it's 'posed to be brown.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:59 PM   #19133
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Do NOT do a Google image search for Blue Waffle. Fair warning!
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:01 PM   #19134
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Do NOT do a Google image search for Blue Waffle. Fair warning!

Hehehe
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:29 PM   #19135
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:49 PM   #19136
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:53 PM   #19137
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Sadly, I would do something like this.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:56 PM   #19138
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:59 PM   #19139
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:43 AM   #19140
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That speedo is totally unacceptable......
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:47 AM   #19141
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Is the guy in the background (all the way on the left) naked?
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:11 AM   #19142
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And who wears shoes when jumping a pool?
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:34 AM   #19143
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Pretty sure that's Preston Lacy and that might be a stunt from Jackass 3. You can definitely see Wee Man in the background.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:34 AM   #19144
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30 ABANDONED PLACES THAT LOOK TRULY BEAUTIFUL.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:59 AM   #19145
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Pretty sure that's Preston Lacy and that might be a stunt from Jackass 3. You can definitely see Wee Man in the background.

The high-brow production would explain the two camera angles.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:44 AM   #19146
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I bet you could do an "interesting" set of those with Superfund sites in the US

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Old 04-15-2013, 02:52 PM   #19147
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So, is it just me, or did the saxophone player and the bass violinist have a baby named Steve Zahn?
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Old 04-15-2013, 05:11 PM   #19148
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Originally Posted by Matthean View Post

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Originally Posted by Matthean View Post

Wasn't this a setting in one of the COD games?
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Old 04-15-2013, 05:45 PM   #19149
JonInMiddleGA
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Originally Posted by tucker rocky View Post
Wasn't this a setting in one of the COD games?

Yep. Pripyat appears in two MW4 maps, briefly in an MW3 flashback, and a level of MW2.
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:17 PM   #19150
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Originally Posted by tucker rocky View Post
Wasn't this a setting in one of the COD games?

That's not by any chance the place from COD1 where you have to take and hold the abandoned Stalingrad apartment? If all the missions in COD1, that was the one that I will never forget.
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