Maximum Football???

[cartman]

Them complaining about our thread impacting the release and/or quality of the product would be like Ross Perot complaining that his portrayal on Saturday Night Live cost him the 1992 election.

[Toddzilla]

I'm totally going to edit my YTMND and include a picture of Tubgirl.

[JPhillips]

The "artist" really needs to post in this thread.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Well, it brought Jenniefr Wniter out of hiding.

What a doofus - she says it's cute, tries to spin all the goofing on the game as good pub, then lectures us on how to ignore trolls. Now THATS quality public relations.

[QuikSand]

What we are going to need, eventually, is a new reference thread just for this thread.

A sort of linked table of contents, to help people follow the numerous discussions, understand the doubled-over references, remember what names correspond to names over there, and so forth. This could be a major undertaking -- but a worthy one.

You can hardly just jump in here... heaven forbid, you might misspell Daivd or you might not recognize the critical importance of beer tents in a football sim.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Well, it brought Jenniefr Wniter out of hiding.

sorry, almost missed that.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Winter

You know what they say - no publicity is bad publicity. If only the trolls understood that there bashing is not having the outcome they desire.

The only outcome that any of us have expressed desiring is having another quality football sim on the market. Our skepticism that MF will be such a sim does not diminish our obsessive desire for more and better games. I agree with Jennifer that MF will not meet that desire.

Originally Posted by Jennifer Winter

They go to other boards - bash the game, but that in turn is only going to raise the curiostiy of people who probably hadn't even known about the games existence. Each will then go to the site and judge for themselves.

Ummm. . . are you sure that that's what you want, Jennifer? Have you seen those screenshots?

[Bee]

I wonder when VicKevlar is going to lay the smackdown on Jeninnfer for calling people trolls.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Bee

I wonder when VicKevlar is going to lay the smackdown on Jeninnfer for calling people trolls.

Or Daivd for bashing text sim developers...

[rkmsuf]

Wade wrote "Daivd" in his serious post.

lol

[st.cronin]

The creattive spelling alone contanes more humor than 99% of all threads.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Wade wrote "Daivd" in his serious post.

lol

I thought long and hard about that one.

I just couldn't bring myself to write "David".

[Bee]

I liked your post Wade. Thought it was dead on. The first step I think they need to take is to have a demo that's not 3 months down the line. I can't imagine this game selling well without a demo at this point.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I thought long and hard about that one.

I just couldn't bring myself to write "David".

Great post over there. That summed up my feelings quite well.

And I loved the spelling. You had to do it. You just had to.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Bee

I liked your post Wade. Thought it was dead on. The first step I think they need to take is to have a demo that's not 3 months down the line. I can't imagine this game selling well without a demo at this point.

Personally I think the first step they need to make is to declare that their gold build had critical problems, so the game is no longer in Gold status. They then need to declare that the release date is officially unknown until they have a clean Gold build. They need to set the expectation that it is an UNKNOWN period of time before this happens.

They then need to put a build together until it is Gold. Once it is Gold, LOCK THE CODE. Do not release anything to the public until the game is actual available for download, and then drop the bomb.

Combined with all of that, there should be a demo, but to me those things need to come before a demo.

[wade moore]

For when the reference thread comes:

RE: You guys seen this? - 2/28/2006 6:38:30 PM

wademoore Matrix Recruit Posts: 2 Joined: 2/27/2006 Status: online

quote: ORIGINAL: KWhit Yep. That's the thing - once the game is released, it will be viewed on its merits. I only wish there was going to be a demo so we could give it a try before buying. I've been holding this in through all of this, but I need to get it out. The folks here need to realize that anyone viewing this forum would LOVE to see a new, quality football game. We would love to have a sim-style game with a 3d graphics engine behind it. In short, we would love for Maximum Football to be a success. This includes everyone on other sites that are posting about the game. I know many of you will not believe that, but it is true. However, when we see the behavior of the developer, the behavior of this being delayed first a year, then 2, then 3, and now delay after delay in this "Gold Release". I understand there are realistic delays behind what is going on right this moment, but it has to be understood what message you are delivering when you drag it out for three years and have the behavior towards the community that has existed over the last 4 or 5 years. That being said, I guarantee you that if the game is good, the folks that are having fun at your expense (admittedly myself included in that list) will immediately sing your praises and recommend the game elsewhere. I'm sure, again, that you do not believe this, but it's true. We have seen it happen before in our community, and it will happen again. If you release a good game even after the bad business maneuvers over the last several years, the game is all that will matter. One of the key problems, as KWhit mentions, is that it is tough to put down $40-$50 for a game that we would have to choose sight unseen. Let ALONE a game that has had this questionable background of development. Again, even if the development has followed every standard known to mankind, the fact is, the perception that is out there is that it was a bad development process, bad testing, questionable screenshots and bad attitude. Reality or not, that is PERCEPTION. SO to want a game to succeed without a chance to try it out, is going to be a hard sell. Anyway. I've rambled on to basically say that the folks with Matrix, Daivd and his wife, and all others involved in this project need to understand that the "fun at your expense" (you say tomato, I say tomato) is not just some random attack for no reason. It is a reaction to all of the above. To think that there is no justification to the reactions across the internet towards this game is just silly. Any business needs to understand that when there is a negative attitude, it comes with a reason. Successful businesses find a way to make it a positive, and usually that method is not lashing back. < Message edited by wademoore -- 2/28/2006 6:40:20 PM > (in reply to KWhit)

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Personally I think the first step they need to make is to declare that their gold build had critical problems, so the game is no longer in Gold status. They then need to declare that the release date is officially unknown until they have a clean Gold build. They need to set the expectation that it is an UNKNOWN period of time before this happens.

They then need to put a build together until it is Gold. Once it is Gold, LOCK THE CODE. Do not release anything to the public until the game is actual available for download, and then drop the bomb.

Combined with all of that, there should be a demo, but to me those things need to come before a demo.

bingo! I'm not a game developper, not even a programmer, but this all makes sense to me. Now, do you think they have the self-discipline/common sense to do that?

To me, they've not shown that they have it...

FM

[rkmsuf]

dervack, you sneaky bastage.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Bee

I can't imagine this game selling well without a demo at this point.

Honestly, though -- if a demo was as illuminating as the screenshots have been, how many people would try the demo and then decide that they liked the game enough to buy it?

I have to think that the no-demo strategy is a wise decision, honestly. You get the already-bagged-and-tagged fanboi audience right away before there's any word of mouth, and then you're bound to get stragglers purchasing the game over time, even if there's no good buzz for the game.

Demos work both ways -- sort of like special movie screenings for critics. When you know your movie stinks, the last thing you want to do is let the critics see it and pan it before it opens. So, you don't run a preview, and let it open unadorned. Voila -- you at least get an opening weekend out of it before word mf mouth crushes the movie.

I have to think it's the same deal at work here. Sell the game based on the promised features list, not on the actual execution. And no refunds.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Demos work both ways -- sort of like special movie screenings for critics. When you know your movie stinks, the last thing you want to do is let the critics see it and pan it before it opens. So, you don't run a preview, and let it open unadorned. Voila -- you at least get an opening weekend out of it before word mf mouth crushes the movie.

I thought that too, also with the clinker movie premise. This time of year tends to remind one how many truly bad movies are made in the course of a year, especially when they're all released at once.

This game's problems seem to be magnified with every release of information, so I'd be surprised to see much more in the way of even screenshots before it is "released". (Quotes signifying that I think a complete project shutdown is just as likely as a release at this point)

[Ksyrup]

Oh shit! I just had a moment I wish could have been caught on tape - both for your enjoyment, and because I think it might have won me $10K. So I'm now up to page 18 and there have been quite a few laugh-out-loud moments, and for some reason - probably overload from taking this all in at one sitting - I just spontaneously burst out laughing WAY too hard at one post. Not the greatest moment in the thread by far, but I think it was cumulative.

Anyway, that's no big deal, except for the fact that I had a mouthful of pudding at the time. Anyone ever heard a true "PLUD" sound? Well, I now have. It's like no sound I've ever heard. My screen, keyboard, and notepad are covered in pudding (vanilla, adding to the joke in my mind; thank God nobody walked by a few seconds later). I couldn't do anything but laugh like an idiot for about 3 minutes straight. My stomach hurts and I've been crying. That was, without a doubt, one of the funniest moments I've ever had. I can't get the sound of "shooting pudding out of my mouth while at the exact same instance, realizing that I'm about to shoot pudding out of my mouth and trying to stop it." DAMN that was hilarious.

OK, back to the topic.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Honestly, though -- if a demo was as illuminating as the screenshots have been, how many people would try the demo and then decide that they liked the game enough to buy it?

I have to think that the no-demo strategy is a wise decision, honestly. You get the already-bagged-and-tagged fanboi audience right away before there's any word of mouth, and then you're bound to get stragglers purchasing the game over time, even if there's no good buzz for the game.

Demos work both ways -- sort of like special movie screenings for critics. When you know your movie stinks, the last thing you want to do is let the critics see it and pan it before it opens. So, you don't run a preview, and let it open unadorned. Voila -- you at least get an opening weekend out of it before word mf mouth crushes the movie.

I have to think it's the same deal at work here. Sell the game based on the promised features list, not on the actual execution. And no refunds.

I agree, but my angle was assuming the game is actually decent (which I know is a stretch based on what we've seen).

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Honestly, though -- if a demo was as illuminating as the screenshots have been, how many people would try the demo and then decide that they liked the game enough to buy it?

I have to think that the no-demo strategy is a wise decision, honestly. You get the already-bagged-and-tagged fanboi audience right away before there's any word of mouth, and then you're bound to get stragglers purchasing the game over time, even if there's no good buzz for the game.

Demos work both ways -- sort of like special movie screenings for critics. When you know your movie stinks, the last thing you want to do is let the critics see it and pan it before it opens. So, you don't run a preview, and let it open unadorned. Voila -- you at least get an opening weekend out of it before word mf mouth crushes the movie.

I have to think it's the same deal at work here. Sell the game based on the promised features list, not on the actual execution. And no refunds.

Good point.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Personally I think the first step they need to make is to declare that their gold build had critical problems, so the game is no longer in Gold status. They then need to declare that the release date is officially unknown until they have a clean Gold build. They need to set the expectation that it is an UNKNOWN period of time before this happens.

They then need to put a build together until it is Gold. Once it is Gold, LOCK THE CODE. Do not release anything to the public until the game is actual available for download, and then drop the bomb.

Combined with all of that, there should be a demo, but to me those things need to come before a demo.

I guess I associate most of that stuff with the developer instead of the publisher, but yep at this point, all of that needs to be done as well.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Bee

I agree, but my angle was assuming the game is actually decent (which I know is a stretch based on what we've seen).

Yeah.. I guess we would have to say that any "smart business strategy" would start with, "make a good game."

I still see that it's POSSIBLE (although very unlikely) that this will happen. But if you don't start with that premise, then any strategy will fail, it's just a matter of squeezing a few sales in here and there, not actually being a success.

[KWhit]

Oh yeah. I think it's obvious that the no-demo is the right choice for them - if the screenshots and movies are any indication.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Bee

I guess I associate most of that stuff with the developer instead of the publisher, but yep at this point, all of that needs to be done as well.

Not really. At this point, the publisher is the one making the release announcments. Erik is the one saying "not today, hopefully tomorrow" etc. Winter hasn't said anything about release in awhile.

That being said, in a regular relationship I would totally put this on the publisher. They are the ones that handled distibution, etc. So, they are the ones that control release dates. They need to muzzle the Winters and make this happen.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Yeah.. I guess we would have to say that any "smart business strategy" would start with, "make a good game."

And that's where everything falls apart.

[st.cronin]

Anybody who registered on their board read the rules?

3. No multiple message board accounts by a single person are prohibited.

I think I need a lawyer to explain that to me.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Oh shit! I just had a moment I wish could have been caught on tape - both for your enjoyment, and because I think it might have won me $10K. So I'm now up to page 18 and there have been quite a few laugh-out-loud moments, and for some reason - probably overload from taking this all in at one sitting - I just spontaneously burst out laughing WAY too hard at one post. Not the greatest moment in the thread by far, but I think it was cumulative.

Anyway, that's no big deal, except for the fact that I had a mouthful of pudding at the time. Anyone ever heard a true "PLUD" sound? Well, I now have. It's like no sound I've ever heard. My screen, keyboard, and notepad are covered in pudding (vanilla, adding to the joke in my mind; thank God nobody walked by a few seconds later). I couldn't do anything but laugh like an idiot for about 3 minutes straight. My stomach hurts and I've been crying. That was, without a doubt, one of the funniest moments I've ever had. I can't get the sound of "shooting pudding out of my mouth while at the exact same instance, realizing that I'm about to shoot pudding out of my mouth and trying to stop it." DAMN that was hilarious.

OK, back to the topic.

You've got to tell us which post pushed you over the edge.

[JeeberD]

I think that means that a single person isn't supposed to creat multiple accounts on their boards. Kinda like SD's "No trolling with an Alt" rule, but I guess more strict.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Anybody who registered on their board read the rules?



I think I need a lawyer to explain that to me.

I'm not a lawyer, but I think that means you have to create multiple accounts or they will ban you.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

I think that means that a single person isn't supposed to creat multiple accounts on their boards. Kinda like SD's "No trolling with an Alt" rule, but I guess more strict.

I'm sure that's what it is supposed to mean, but it's not what it says.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by John Galt

You've got to tell us which post pushed you over the edge.

It was the Benny Hill website music.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I'm sure that's what it is supposed to mean, but it's not what it says.

With the attention to detail displayed so far, I'm shocked -- SHOCKED -- this made it past Kwality Control.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Oh shit! I just had a moment I wish could have been caught on tape - both for your enjoyment, and because I think it might have won me $10K. So I'm now up to page 18 and there have been quite a few laugh-out-loud moments, and for some reason - probably overload from taking this all in at one sitting - I just spontaneously burst out laughing WAY too hard at one post. Not the greatest moment in the thread by far, but I think it was cumulative.

Anyway, that's no big deal, except for the fact that I had a mouthful of pudding at the time. Anyone ever heard a true "PLUD" sound? Well, I now have. It's like no sound I've ever heard. My screen, keyboard, and notepad are covered in pudding (vanilla, adding to the joke in my mind; thank God nobody walked by a few seconds later). I couldn't do anything but laugh like an idiot for about 3 minutes straight. My stomach hurts and I've been crying. That was, without a doubt, one of the funniest moments I've ever had. I can't get the sound of "shooting pudding out of my mouth while at the exact same instance, realizing that I'm about to shoot pudding out of my mouth and trying to stop it." DAMN that was hilarious.

OK, back to the topic.

Yeah...so apparently doing a Google Image Search on "messy pudding" isn't work safe...

[Bee]

The trolling posts have gotten a little boring to me. I'm finding the real fanbois much more entertaining with their blind faith that this game will be worth waiting 6 years for the release.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

dervack, you sneaky bastage.

We now have proof that Erik isn't a true dark Jedi...

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Bee

The trolling posts have gotten a little boring to me. I'm finding the real fanbois much more entertaining with their blind faith that this game will be worth waiting 6 years for the release.

I know. i've now resorted to writing the most assinine posts and they still take me seriously.

i'm not actually finding much humorous anymore. i think the Iraqi Minister Of Information was the last funny thing. oh well. no joke lasts forever.

[dervack]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

dervack, you sneaky bastage.

What did I do?

[Bonegavel]

When they said, "toss that MF'er over here" our bride apparently misunderstood.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

I know. i've now resorted to writing the most assinine posts and they still take me seriously.

Works over here for jb. Try caling him on something and watch his defenders come out of the woodwork.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Works over here for jb. Try caling him on something and watch his defenders come out of the woodwork.

i already have my defenders over there:

ORIGINAL: donkeydong12

stop making fun of him

[Desnudo]

This game isn't going to be good. You could give them five more years. Maybe the dev process wasn't up to snuff, but I think you would expect that from a small dev house. Trying to combine 3D and text simming is the core problem and the additional complexity highlights a smaller developer's lack of process.

There's a reason why SI doesn't have 3D graphics in their games and a reason why EA Sport's Total Club Manager (soccer) was mediocre as both a simulation and an arcade game. Someone with far more limited resources thinking they could pull off the combo of good simulation and arcade style graphics didn't bother to scope the project. Which is why it's taken so long to this point with no tangible results and an apparently mediocre product.

[dervack]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

We now have proof that Erik isn't a true dark Jedi...

Err, I might be getting the form letter of death apparently if I don't edit my sig...

[KWhit]

Yeah, I thought that was great.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

This game isn't going to be good.

Alert the media!

[kingfc22]

This thread is like crack.

[dervack]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Yeah, I thought that was great.

Although he didn't address my concern, so maybe I won't address his.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It was the Benny Hill website music.

Yeah, that was a good one. It feels so long ago.