It's BACK! The 2005-2006 NHL Season

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

anywho, back to hockey and a fun little thing from Friday night's Sharks Kings game:
midway through the 2nd period, with the game tied 3-3, San Jose scored a goal and Murray pulled Mathieu Garon. While the switch was being made, the reviewed the goal and ultimately ruled (correctly) that it was not a goal (it was kicked in). But it's not like Murray could change his mind at that point, so Garon ultimately got pulled for a goal he didn't allow.

It'd be funnier if he did change his mind.

[Draft Dodger]

I agree. I was hoping he would.

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I agree. I was hoping he would.

Mike Keenan would have.

[sachmo71]

Stars start out in a 2-0 hole AGAIN!!
Nice win, very exciting and all of that, but it's getting a bit tiring.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Stars start out in a 2-0 hole AGAIN!!
Nice win, very exciting and all of that, but it's getting a bit tiring.

Sounds like Carolina's season for the past week. Down 2 goals in just about every game and found a way to win. It's going to catch up to them eventually, but they're on a helluva roll right now.

[Fidatelo]

I have a question for any Kings fans out there (or others that are just 'in the know')... is Labarbera close to becoming the full-time #1? Have there been any rumblings that the platoon with Garon is nearing a conclusion?

The reason that I ask is Fantasy related. My goalie trio is Aebischer, Niitymaki, and Labarbera, with Labarbera on the bench. I only get 7 bench/active swaps for the season, so I have to be very careful with each one. I am very tempted to swap Labarbera in for Niitymaki...

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I have a question for any Kings fans out there (or others that are just 'in the know')... is Labarbera close to becoming the full-time #1? Have there been any rumblings that the platoon with Garon is nearing a conclusion?

The reason that I ask is Fantasy related. My goalie trio is Aebischer, Niitymaki, and Labarbera, with Labarbera on the bench. I only get 7 bench/active swaps for the season, so I have to be very careful with each one. I am very tempted to swap Labarbera in for Niitymaki...

Even if he doesn't earn the job outright (and you have to think he's close with the way he's played compared to Garon), he's going to play more than Niitymanki this year.

[bbor]

I think the Kings still like Garon better...but right noe Labarbera is out playing him.

[Joe Canadian]

Pavel Bure officially retires as a player, and is named GM of the Russian Olympic team... one interesting quote from him:

"You won't see grouchy players here anymore. Only those who really want to play for Russia will be called into the team."

That made me smile...

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Joe Canadian

Pavel Bure officially retires as a player, and is named GM of the Russian Olympic team... one interesting quote from him:

"You won't see grouchy players here anymore. Only those who really want to play for Russia will be called into the team."

That made me smile...

That is too funny.

[st.cronin]

I'm not a Blackhawks fan but Jiri Fischer is a punk.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'm not a Blackhawks fan but Jiri Fischer is a punk.

What happened? I saw he fought Barnaby.

*damn working late*

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

What happened? I saw he fought Barnaby.

*damn working late*

He pushed/tripped Barnaby into Legace (he should have gotten a penalty for that, imo), then Legace hurt his knee, then he started punching Barnaby in the back of the head, while he was still down. There is no way he didn't realize he had pushed Barnaby into his goalie; he did it on purpose. Unless there was something else that happened earlier off camera, it was a totally pussy move.

[Hurst2112]

Um yeah, when I think of "punks" in the NHL, I think of Fischer.

(rolleyes and yawn)

Now Barnaby, that's another story.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

Um yeah, when I think of "punks" in the NHL, I think of Fischer.

(rolleyes and yawn)

Now Barnaby, that's another story.

Barnaby's definitely a chippy player, I agree. I didn't mean that Fischer was being dirty (although he was), I meant he was being unmanly. He was clearly in the mood to provoke Barnaby, for whatever reason, and in the process, hurt his own goaltender. Then he didn't have the stones to face Barnaby mano a mano.. as soon as Barnaby had his feet, Fischer was looking to hide. It was one of the weakest sequences I can remember from a hockey player.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Dear sterlingice aka "SI",

I know you have a hard time watching hockey out there in Kansas, so I just wanted to give you an update on your Blackhawks. The Detroit Red Wings have beaten the Chicago Blackhawks THREE times (yes, three times) in a row.

The scores were as follows:
5-2
4-2
4-1

The Wings are now 11-1 and have won 9 games in a row. Let me know if you'd like any additional information regarding these games.

Regards,

H_B

[Hurst2112]

Oooh.

SNAP!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Thrashers win 6-4 at Tampa.

Key stat? How about only THREE penalties on Atlanta all night, and all of those in the first 20 minutes.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

He pushed/tripped Barnaby into Legace (he should have gotten a penalty for that, imo), then Legace hurt his knee, then he started punching Barnaby in the back of the head, while he was still down. There is no way he didn't realize he had pushed Barnaby into his goalie; he did it on purpose. Unless there was something else that happened earlier off camera, it was a totally pussy move.

You weren't watching the same game as me apparantly. The announcers weren't either. I used Tivo to go back a few times, and it was CLEAR that Barnaby jumped backwards PRIOR to being touched by Fischer. It was close, but he would have landed on Manny anyway. I would have punched the shit out of him as well.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

It was one of the weakest sequences I can remember from a hockey player.

Either you don't watch much hockey or you're a fucking drama queen. That kind of crap happens all the time, especially around goalies, regardless of who pushed who.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Dear sterlingice aka "SI",

I know you have a hard time watching hockey out there in Kansas, so I just wanted to give you an update on your Blackhawks. The Detroit Red Wings have beaten the Chicago Blackhawks THREE times (yes, three times) in a row.

The scores were as follows:
5-2
4-2
4-1

The Wings are now 12-1 and have won 9 games in a row. Let me know if you'd like any additional information regarding these games.

Regards,

H_B

Fixed it for ya.

[sterlingice]

It's nice to know I'm loved and thought of even in these dark times.

Man, usually we play you guys a lot closer than that. Thankfully I've been spared the tv of these games as all we get out here is the occasional Blues game on FS-Midwest (did see Blues/Hawks earlier this season and there's another coming up in a week or so) and OLN. And what's with the 3 back-to-back-to-back games? I've never seen that before in my life. Then again, this is the new "unbalanced schedule".

Enjoy that President's Trophy and subsequent playoff choke ('sall I got)

SI

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

You weren't watching the same game as me apparantly. The announcers weren't either. I used Tivo to go back a few times, and it was CLEAR that Barnaby jumped backwards PRIOR to being touched by Fischer. It was close, but he would have landed on Manny anyway. I would have punched the shit out of him as well.

Fischer's stick was between Barnaby's legs when he pushed him. It was an intentional trip that got his goalie hurt. I played goalie for my high school, so I know about protecting goalies, and Fischer's tactics were idiotic and ineffective; if I were Legace I'd be furious with him, not Barnaby.

Thanks for the kind words, though.

[Travis]

Looking forward to a good tilt on Thursday. Oilers might be a streaky team, but right now they're on the good side of one of those streaks. We snuck one in against Nashville, hopefully we can get a couple of early ones on Detroit before they wake up.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Fischer's stick was between Barnaby's legs when he pushed him. It was an intentional trip that got his goalie hurt. I played goalie for my high school, so I know about protecting goalies, and Fischer's tactics were idiotic and ineffective; if I were Legace I'd be furious with him, not Barnaby.

Thanks for the kind words, though.

Another high school goalie chiming in here.

While Fischer was stupid, Barnaby jump backwards. Fischer may've helped but Barnaby was going to land on him, or at least pretty damn close regardless.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Fischer's stick was between Barnaby's legs when he pushed him. It was an intentional trip that got his goalie hurt. I played goalie for my high school, so I know about protecting goalies, and Fischer's tactics were idiotic and ineffective; if I were Legace I'd be furious with him, not Barnaby.

Thanks for the kind words, though.

You have no proof whatsoever to say that it was intentional. Sticks go between legs all the time, and I know for a fact that it's not always intentional. I watched the play, and they got tangled up as Fischer was trying to remove a guy from the crease who was screening his goalie. If Barnaby hadn't jumped (not that he shouldn't have jumped since he was screening), he would have never tripped over Jiri's stick. My point is that it wasn't Fischer's fault and it wasn't Barnaby's fault. The video evidence proves that fact, imo.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

It was one of the weakest sequences I can remember from a hockey player.

Martin Havlat.

[Ksyrup]

I watched most of the Panthers game against Montreal last night, and Dennis Potvin (one of FL's announcers) repeatedly was making a point of how the refs seem to be making calls just based on someone falling down and not actual penalties, as well as being very inconsistent and not calling dives, and man was he right. Florida came back from 3-1 down to take a 4-3 lead, then Montreal tied in on a PPG with 8 seconds left. So in OT, one of the Canadiens steps on his own stick behind his goal and falls down, and one of the Panthers got nailed for a penalty. Completely bogus. As if a PP in OT isn't bad enough, Montreal's game-winning shot came as a result of one of the defensemen chopping a FL defenseman behind the knee, allowing a cross-ice pass and an open-net goal.

The game was exciting, but to see that kind of crap decide the game was frustrating and took any enjoyment out of it (and not just because Florida lost). I think there were 18 PPs in the game, and probably a quarter of them were as a result of dives or plays falling over themselves, and not real penalties. Potvin suggested that if guys keep getting called for non-existent penalties, they're going to decide they need to get their money's worth for a 2 minute penalty and that guys are going to start getting hurt.

Interesting comments, even moreso since they played out at the end of the game just as he was saying.

[sachmo71]

Potvin suggested that if guys keep getting called for non-existent penalties, they're going to decide they need to get their money's worth for a 2 minute penalty and that guys are going to start getting hurt.

That doesn't make any sense to me. What does "getting your money's worth" even mean? You hit someone harder? Rip out the spine with your stick? If everyone is taking bogus calls, they need to complain to the league, but these guys are smarter than this.

[Wolfpack]

Good to see the Thrash win, not the least of which is because it keeps the Canes in first place another day.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

That doesn't make any sense to me. What does "getting your money's worth" even mean? You hit someone harder? Rip out the spine with your stick? If everyone is taking bogus calls, they need to complain to the league, but these guys are smarter than this.

well, Denis is correct about the penalties. They are calling some lame shit, and, as a result, dives are becoming a minor epidemic.
but yeah, the 2nd part of that is pretty much bunk. For the most part, players don't inentionally get a penalty, and that would be necessary for his theory to work.

[Maple Leafs]

The NHL needs to start shaming these divers. Imagine if in the NFL, there were WRs who would hit the turf on every play to try to draw an interference penalty. Sure, you have guys who always look for a flag, but they don't roll around on the ground to try to get one. They'd be laughed out of the league. Why should a hockey player be any different?

[bbor]

The league used to publish a "divers" list for the refs.Maybe they need to do that again.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by bbor

The league used to publish a "divers" list for the refs.Maybe they need to do that again.

I'm not sure a list like that could ever be completey, fair, objective and correct.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by bbor

The league used to publish a "divers" list for the refs.Maybe they need to do that again.

I'd be all for that. Of course, every single player ever named on the list acted shocked and offended that anyone would accuse them of diving, so it was scrapped.

Something that would help: tell the refs to stop giving two penalties when they see a dive. I understand that it's possible to have a hook/trip and a dive on the same play, but why not make the dive negate the foul? The way it is now you don't really risk anything by diving -- you may lose a powerplay, but you'll just wind up four-on-four. I'd like to see teams have to kill a penalty because someone decided to try to embarass the ref by cartwheeling down the ice.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I'd be all for that. Of course, every single player ever named on the list acted shocked and offended that anyone would accuse them of diving, so it was scrapped.

Something that would help: tell the refs to stop giving two penalties when they see a dive. I understand that it's possible to have a hook/trip and a dive on the same play, but why not make the dive negate the foul? The way it is now you don't really risk anything by diving -- you may lose a powerplay, but you'll just wind up four-on-four. I'd like to see teams have to kill a penalty because someone decided to try to embarass the ref by cartwheeling down the ice.

I still don't think the refs can be sure if something is a blatant dive 100% of the time, and for that reason making those calls are very tough. That fact also makes any compiled list fallible, imo.

[Fidatelo]

Why not make the penalty for diving a major? That way, even if there was a hook/trip on the play, it's 4-on-4 for 2 minutes followed by a 3 minute powerplay for the other team?

I also think that refs should be extra vigilant about diving, and call anything even borderline. A player should be fighting to stay on his feet 100% of the time, and if doing so it would be EXTREMELY rare to ever have a fall be seen as anything other than legitimate.

[st.cronin]

I've long been puzzled by how you can call a dive and an offsetting penalty. If the player was in fact tripped, how can he be called for diving?

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Why not make the penalty for diving a major? That way, even if there was a hook/trip on the play, it's 4-on-4 for 2 minutes followed by a 3 minute powerplay for the other team?

I've been saying this since they took up the crackdown on diving, I can't understand the point of a crackdown if there really is no penalty for the bad act. As it stands now, there very rarely is a PP for the opposing team. Diving is worthy of a major penalty in my eyes, and hopefully next year they make this so.

[Schmidty]

I still think that 50% of the time diving is called (or used to be), there's no way to prove that the guy was really diving. I don't trust ref's and linesmen's judgement enough to give them free reign to make such debatable (some of the time) calls.

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I still think that 50% of the time diving is called (or used to be), there's no way to prove that the guy was really diving. I don't trust ref's and linesmen's judgement enough to give them free reign to make such debatable (some of the time) calls.

I don't think the stats are 50\50... I think that there are times diving is called when the player didn't dive, but generally, at least now, the refs do a good job at it. Diving is like any other call, it can be debated but we leave the judgement up to the officials on the ice. If we don't, how do we stop it?

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I've long been puzzled by how you can call a dive and an offsetting penalty. If the player was in fact tripped, how can he be called for diving?

In theory the guy could be tripped, but then embellish it on the way down. That makes sense from time-to-time, but you can't tell me it happens every single time (the way the refs seem to call it).

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I still think that 50% of the time diving is called (or used to be), there's no way to prove that the guy was really diving. I don't trust ref's and linesmen's judgement enough to give them free reign to make such debatable (some of the time) calls.

There will be a few guys who get called unfairly, and you would see a lot of calls based on reputation. But like anything else, the refs can be trained to spot dives. It's really not that hard -- just watch the hands. The natural reaction to being knocked down unexpectedly is to try to break your fall. But when you want to embellish it, the instinct is to throw your hands up as you go down. So if the hands go up, it's usually a dive.

[RPI-Fan]

I think more PP's simply isn't the solution to ANY problems at this point. The NHL has enough issues with refs being inconsistent and calling 20 penalties in a game -- giving them reason to call more isn't the best answer, at this time, I don't think.

[sachmo71]

Man, the kings OWN the Stars this year!

[Fidatelo]

I think fan overreaction to too many penalties is what causes the game to continually slide back to crap within weeks of every "crackdown". I find it eternally frustrating that media and fans alike spend the entire off-season bemoaning the terrible state of the game, then 3 weeks into the season start whining about all of the penalties.

What people need to understand is that there has to be a transition period, and it's not overnight. A coach who is losing games because his team is in the box 12 times a night will not tolerate it over the length of a season. Unfortunately, it never comes to that because crackdowns are abolished by December.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I think fan overreaction to too many penalties is what causes the game to continually slide back to crap within weeks of every "crackdown". I find it eternally frustrating that media and fans alike spend the entire off-season bemoaning the terrible state of the game, then 3 weeks into the season start whining about all of the penalties.

What people need to understand is that there has to be a transition period, and it's not overnight. A coach who is losing games because his team is in the box 12 times a night will not tolerate it over the length of a season. Unfortunately, it never comes to that because crackdowns are abolished by December.

I'd love it if they called obstruction. But some of the non-veteran referees were getting out of control. They would call the most bogus slashing, or interference penalties in the zones. With some of these guys hitting simply isn't a factor.

So, I'd rather have a slightly slowed down game with most things called in the neutral zone but a little slower offensive zone play, than everything called and the parade to the penalty box that some referees seem to set up.

BTW, I was saying the EXACT same thing as you in the past. But the fact is, the referees can't handle things if they aren't given a specific directive, so I think what is called and not called needs to be more clear, and that means making more things allowable.

[RPI-Fan]

Also, a sign that things are a little out of control IMO:

In the past, even early on the crackdowns, I could pretty much always see exactly what it was that was called. Now (and this was magnified in the Isles/Philly game I went to), it seems like around 30-50% of penalties I have NO clue what they were for until they show the replay. Some refs seem to be out there just looking for anything to call.

[bbor]

Ya know....i'm gonna get skewered for saying this...but....does'nt the game just seem too much like pond hockey now...there is no animosity in the games,no toughness...i'm not talking about fighting,but i'd like to see a little more roughness.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by bbor

Ya know....i'm gonna get skewered for saying this...but....does'nt the game just seem too much like pond hockey now...there is no animosity in the games,no toughness...i'm not talking about fighting,but i'd like to see a little more roughness.

Naw, I'm not gonna skewer you. It's a matter of taste, as in the case of women. I like Scarlett Johansson. You like Bea Arthur. No biggie.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Naw, I'm not gonna skewer you. It's a matter of taste, as in the case of women. I like Scarlett Johansson. You like Bea Arthur. No biggie.

LOL