Werewolf LVIII: Clash of the Gods (GAME OVER)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Yeah, that's the beer kickin' in. Just have strong feelings here. I guess if I were on the other side of the fence I'd have some reservations as well. I forgive you for being cautious if you forgive me for calling you (and others) stupid.

WIll do.

[Neon_Chaos]

Raiders, would you be willing to hold off on the debate of Lathum's loyalties, to switch over to a Racer/Chief Rum vote?

Either way, we cut down on the titan numbers... Chief Rum is a self-confessed good Titan.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Uh...yeah, I forgive you no matter what of course. Just came out wrongly.

Heh...I knew what you meant.

[Chief Rum]

Only one problem, guys. How much game time do we have left? We're talking a two day stretch for each situation. Test CR/Racer, lynching one. Then lynch the other. Test Lathum/RA. Lynch one, then lynch the other. I mean it's possible we guess right both times (and that's assuming it's even villager versus wolf in both cases), and we get them in two days, but does anyone want to take odds on that scenario playing out?

No, if we decide to go one way or the other, we have to literally commit to the other, because we're never going to be able to get back to the second debate in time before this game ends. I see this game ending by Tuesday.

[Chief Rum]

I'm out for the rest of the day, but will be back late, late tonight and tomorrow.

[DaddyTorgo]

interesting. So we have RA/Lathum and CR/Racer as the two dualities? With Anxiety/Cronin as the third pairing?

[PurdueBrad]

Of all these pairings, which really help us answer questions for the next night? Although CR is an admitted Titan and Racer is possibly not who he says he is, what do we solve in that dynamic for the next night's vote?

Although lets say there is a game dynamic that allows for both RA and Lathum to still be good at this point, we don't solve anything for the next night either.

I would say the best odds play, despite the risks, is to stick with the RA/Lathum play but it may also have some of the biggest risk.

[Neon_Chaos]

DaddyT, do you get that wierd feeling that the Titans are fucking with us because they're in a disadvantageous spot right now?

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

DaddyT, do you get that wierd feeling that the Titans are fucking with us because they're in a disadvantageous spot right now?

Neon, I know this is addressed to DT, but I'll jump in and answer as well...Yes. I am also concerned that a lot of this discussion is eventually going to lead to the Titans trying to get another reveal or two out of us. They are one night kill away from eliminating the last of our big three and everytime we reveal, we give them a better shot at taking that person out. As it stands now, if all reveals are to be believed, they have a 1 in 4 shot at taking out the last big God based on our non-revealers and those odds get even worse for us if there is a Titan in that four. I get the feeling that derailing us and making us lose focus is the goal here and it is working.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

DaddyT, do you get that wierd feeling that the Titans are fucking with us because they're in a disadvantageous spot right now?

mmhmm

personally I think CR is medusa and doesn't have any idea who Racer is or isn't. Which isn't to say Racer isn't a Titan.

I'm not sure what's up with the Anxiety/Cronin grouping. I can conceivably see how both Lathum+RA are good and got a mixed-up scan due to a Titan's ability. I guess that also lends support to Cronin being good if that's true, as he vouched for Lathum (although that alone doesn't make him good). Which could mean Anxiety is bad, along with someone else.

I'm going to spend the rest of the night thinking this over and trying to figure out what I want to do.

If anyone's got a one-off killing power, this might be a good time to use it to take out Anxiety or Cronin to try to figure out what's going on with that and what that would tell us.

[PurdueBrad]

After re-reading the rules, there may be some value in eventually sacrificing CR. Even "good" Titans count for the evil Titans' ratio. As our numbers start to dwindle, we may eventually have to sacrifice him. We're not at that point yet but eventually he could buy us an extra day if we need it.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

mmhmm

personally I think CR is medusa and doesn't have any idea who Racer is or isn't. Which isn't to say Racer isn't a Titan.

I'm not sure what's up with the Anxiety/Cronin grouping. I can conceivably see how both Lathum+RA are good and got a mixed-up scan due to a Titan's ability. I guess that also lends support to Cronin being good if that's true, as he vouched for Lathum (although that alone doesn't make him good). Which could mean Anxiety is bad, along with someone else.

I'm going to spend the rest of the night thinking this over and trying to figure out what I want to do.

If anyone's got a one-off killing power, this might be a good time to use it to take out Anxiety or Cronin to try to figure out what's going on with that and what that would tell us.

How does anything I've said make Anxiety good or bad? What I have said is that Anxiety is NOT the bodyguard. That is ALL I know about him.

And if anybody does have a one time killing power, bring it on: I'll have Lathum guarding me, and we can confirm two roles.

[PurdueBrad]

There are 11 players left in the game.

IF CR is to be believed, there are at least two evil Titans left PLUS CR. That puts us at an 8-3 ratio, which seems fairly high still for this late in the game. I'm thinking that we might be at 7-4, which puts us in a pretty rough position. As I said, we don't need to sacrifice CR yet, but come Monday, we may have to, regardless of how helpful he's been.

CR, since I am talking about possibly having to sacrifice you on Monday, I'm curious what your thoughts are both numbers-wise and if there is a scenario where you agree that it would be best to use you to buy a day.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Raiders, would you be willing to hold off on the debate of Lathum's loyalties, to switch over to a Racer/Chief Rum vote?

Either way, we cut down on the titan numbers... Chief Rum is a self-confessed good Titan.

No. If we cut down Racer and he's an Olympian, then we get rid of an Olympian and a self-professed good Titan, while a bad Titan goes scott-free. I am certain that Lathum is a Titan and I am certain that he's evil. This is based upon the write-up provided by my scan.

Here's the other thing: CR may be covering for Lathum because Lathum has the better role. If CR sacrifices himself, he gives Lathum two days to kill again. This part is pure speculation on my part.

We need to go Lathum/me.

[PurdueBrad]

Raiders, I agree and am willing to lynch Lathum Sunday night and follow that with a CR lynch. I think it is very important to lynch him Monday to ensure getting that extra day.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Raiders, I agree and am willing to lynch Lathum Sunday night and follow that with a CR lynch. I think it is very important to lynch him Monday to ensure getting that extra day.

I'm not sure CR should be the next one. I can scan someone this cycle, so is the consensus CR? I think I'd rather scan Anxiety or cronin and if they come back as positive, go for CR then.

[PurdueBrad]

No, I wouldn't scan CR. He's already admitted to being a Titan. I would scan either Anxiety or Cronin, if they come back as Olympians, lynch CR but if they come back as Titan, we go ahead and lynch them and hold off on CR one more night. Like I said, I'm not sure you need to spend the scan on CR since he's said he's a Titan.

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE LYNCH LATHUM

[DaddyTorgo]

I submit that CR isn't a Titan, he's medusa and he's got his own victory conditions, which maybe include staying alive till the end or something.

I say you scan cronin and see what's up with him

[Schmidty]

HERE WE GO TITANS, HERE WE GO!!!!!!!

HERE WE GO TITANS, HERE WE GO!!!!!!!


GoooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOO TITANS!!!!!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

lol

[Abe Sargent]

You don't scam me or st cronin or CR. You scan Racer

Racer is the key to everythung, He comes up titan, and everything fits. He doesn't, and you can work your way back, startiung with CR.

Scan Racer tonight.

[DaddyTorgo]

interesting anxiety...why do you say that? explain please?

[Abe Sargent]

I just explained it. We have a claim onthe board that Racer is a Titan and lathum is a Titan. Scan Racer. If he comes up a bad guy, then you have found your other nad guy. If he doesn't, work your way backward. Who said he was? CR, so we all vote for CR.

This assumes that the seer is right and Lathum is, in fact, a Titan. We get him today, adn then move on to the next target, Racer.

But we need the seer t oscan to make sure we target Racer and not CR.

[DaddyTorgo]

interesting...solid point.

What about RA saying he's 95% sure you are a titan?

[Racer]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

interesting. So we have RA/Lathum and CR/Racer as the two dualities? With Anxiety/Cronin as the third pairing?

I don't think we should plan that far ahead. With night actions, we should be able to learn information that can help us make a better decision then to definitely go down the line like this.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

You don't scam me or st cronin or CR. You scan Racer

Racer is the key to everythung, He comes up titan, and everything fits. He doesn't, and you can work your way back, startiung with CR.

Scan Racer tonight.

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I just explained it. We have a claim onthe board that Racer is a Titan and lathum is a Titan. Scan Racer. If he comes up a bad guy, then you have found your other nad guy. If he doesn't, work your way backward. Who said he was? CR, so we all vote for CR.

This assumes that the seer is right and Lathum is, in fact, a Titan. We get him today, adn then move on to the next target, Racer.

But we need the seer t oscan to make sure we target Racer and not CR.

I thought your ability was to be able to force somoene to do their actions on someone else? You can just use your powers to have RA scan Racer, right?

[Neon_Chaos]

Unless you're lying about your ability.

[st.cronin]

This game is too hard.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

This game is too hard.

Agreed.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

This game is too hard.

No shit.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Unless you're lying about your ability.

Good call there.

[Raiders Army]

If Anxiety forces me to scan racer, I will corroborate his story thus clearing two people. If he doesn't, well...

[DaddyTorgo]

nice catch neon!

RA...suggest you scan racer/cronin

[DaddyTorgo]

although, thinking CR is probably lying about Racer being a Titan, I might scan cronin instead of racer

[st.cronin]

Even if Anxiety can do what he claims, how does that clear him?

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Even if Anxiety can do what he claims, how does that clear him?

Well, it wouldn't clear him but it would put him closer to the CoT.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I thought your ability was to be able to force somoene to do their actions on someone else? You can just use your powers to have RA scan Racer, right?

I want to use my ability to force st cronin to block racer's actions so that if he is a bad guy he can't kill apollo.

[st.cronin]

Wow, that's actually what I was thinking of doing anyway (assuming Lathum gets lynched).

[st.cronin]

Abe: One thing to remember is that if you do get to use me to block somebody's actions, that will also negate their vote.

Just something to keep in mind if the vote is close.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I want to use my ability to force st cronin to block racer's actions so that if he is a bad guy he can't kill apollo.

This is too complicated. There are too many variables here to actually see if what you're doing is working or if what cronin is doing is working. Neither of you are fully trusted.

The best thing to do is force me to scan. Once the Lathum vote is done, it will prove me 100%. I can at least vouch that you have that power.

[Raiders Army]

I'll check you out in the morning.

[Neon_Chaos]

I was about to go to bed, when I think I may have figured out who our bodyguard is, and why he isn't revealing, or hasn't revealed.

From the first page:

Athena - Goddess of Warriors, industries and prudent intelligence

The Titans may have just killed our bodyguard, Passacaglia, on day 1.

st.cronin, you have no definite confirmation that Lathum is indeed Heracles, right? Perhaps his abilities relate to being able to kill someone, hence his ability to guard you in some capacity when forced.

I think RA has no reason to lie, whatsoever... and maybe the misinterpretation of rules and roles is not with RA but with st.cronin.

st.cronin, Anxiety, we need to get our votes together here. The more I think about it, the possibility of Lathum being a Titan grows even further.

[Abe Sargent]

Same logic applies to RA being a false seer and Athena being the seer though

[DaddyTorgo]

interesting Neon...interesting

well i'm voting lathum, that's for sure.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

There are 11 players left in the game.

IF CR is to be believed, there are at least two evil Titans left PLUS CR. That puts us at an 8-3 ratio, which seems fairly high still for this late in the game. I'm thinking that we might be at 7-4, which puts us in a pretty rough position. As I said, we don't need to sacrifice CR yet, but come Monday, we may have to, regardless of how helpful he's been.

CR, since I am talking about possibly having to sacrifice you on Monday, I'm curious what your thoughts are both numbers-wise and if there is a scenario where you agree that it would be best to use you to buy a day.

If that's what it comes to, I would vote for myself. I readily accept that, as I am a Titan, it is in the best interest of the Olympians to kill me.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I just explained it. We have a claim onthe board that Racer is a Titan and lathum is a Titan. Scan Racer. If he comes up a bad guy, then you have found your other nad guy. If he doesn't, work your way backward. Who said he was? CR, so we all vote for CR.

This assumes that the seer is right and Lathum is, in fact, a Titan. We get him today, adn then move on to the next target, Racer.

But we need the seer t oscan to make sure we target Racer and not CR.

There is something I feel compelled to mention here, if only so we all understand just what my ability entails. My ability does not state what someone is or reveal their role. I only know what role is or is not in the game.

Odysseus is NOT in the game. So Racer is lying. This does not mean Racer is not an Olympian. It doesn't mean he is a Titan. It just means he is not Odysseus. Why he would lie is up to us to decide.

I don't know how many unrevealed we have left, but we know Achilles is out there, and Medusa (if you believe me in both counts). We also know Hyperion is out there, and Coeus, and, by rule, Poseidon. I would imagine at least one or two of those number have already fake-revealed. But we know those roles are out there.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Same logic applies to RA being a false seer and Athena being the seer though

Ah. But Telle says that Apollo has been doing the scanning, so we know that Apollo is the seer, which RA has confirmed.

And if Telle and RA are lying, then I must be lying because I vouch for Telle. And if I'm lying, then DaddyT must be lying as well.

Which basically means that Athena can't be the seer.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I want to use my ability to force st cronin to block racer's actions so that if he is a bad guy he can't kill apollo.

This will prevent me from following someone in hopes of catching and killing a Titan. Please do not do this.

[Racer]

Vote Lathum

More people seem to be trusting RA at this point. Plus if we make the wrong choice between RA and Lathum, it would better to lynch a hero as opposed to someone who hasn't claimed anything (RA hasn't made a claim, right?) or claimed to be an Olympian since in the victory conditions it states the Titans win with a 1:1 ratio between themselves and the Olympians.