The Official 2013 MLB Thread

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Except your forgot about the part, where in the other 1/2 season as a Red after leaving Montreal he put up .364/.430/.458 line in Cincinnati, and then the season he actually broke the record he hit .264 with a .395 OBP. Didn't slug, but that's not as god awful as you're making it out to be. Then you conveniently added in his piss poor .219 season, the one he had AFTER he broke the record (you know where the other 1b options were another over the hill Tony Perez, and the awesome Nick Esasky who hit .230 that year).

Glad somebody else noticed this, I'd looked it up & was going to comment but decided eh,what the hell.

[cartman]

I think Robin Ventura might be the first manager I've ever seen get tossed on arguing an inside-the-park-home-run call. He should know better than to argue a call against the Rangers. I have previous proof hanging on my office wall, signed by Nolan Ryan.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Glad somebody else noticed this, I'd looked it up & was going to comment but decided eh,what the hell.

Something else I noticed when I looked it up. He was actually an AS in 1985. I sure didn't remember that. Not that that means much, but interesting nevertheless.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by molson

I don't know what the purpose of those epic, lengthy, artificial statements are, or how much his lawyers make to draft them, but wouldn't the public perception of Braun be better if he just acted like a human being and apologized for cheating? I'm sure the lawyers debated for hours trying to decide what the most innocent-sounding method of drug ingestion was and they came up with "a cream and a lozenge." But nobody buys it or gives a shit. The guy just comes off incredibly phony.

My guess is the statement was drafted to avoid Braun saying anything that will cost him another few million from the specimen collector.

[cartman]

Don't worry, Kansas City Royals. The area Buffalo Wild Wings have kept your seats open to watch the playoffs, as they have every season since 1985.

[SackAttack]

Are the Royals the coldest team in baseball now because they've lost six straight?

Or is that still the Astros?

/MBBF

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Except your forgot about the part, where in the other 1/2 season as a Red after leaving Montreal he put up .364/.430/.458 line in Cincinnati

Over 107 plate appearances. I reported the worst of it, but he was a dreadful hitter for a first baseman from 1982 onward and 1980 was bad enough to reduce most 1B who aren't producing to bench status. If he weren't chasing the record, he would have been out of baseball entirely in 1983.

Through 1979, when he was 38, he was a damned good ballplayer. And 1981 was more than decent, too.

and then the season he actually broke the record he hit .264 with a .395 OBP. Didn't slug, but that's not as god awful as you're making it out to be.

A 99 OPS+ for a first baseman with well below-average fielding. Yes, god awful.

Then you conveniently added in his piss poor .219 season, the one he had AFTER he broke the record (you know where the other 1b options were another over the hill Tony Perez, and the awesome Nick Esasky who hit .230 that year).

That was 272 plate appearances at a mind-boggling 61 OPS+ - you think twice about a gold-glove shortstop who puts up those numbers. Esasky wasn't a great option, but he was a slightly better fielder and just entering his prime at 26. He had a good year the following season. No sentient manager would have kept Rose on the roster. Perez had been a serviceable backup the previous year, but terrible for a while before that, and only slightly better than Rose that year.

Pete certainly was an asshat for betting on baseball, but I think his PT was ok, until that final season. But there weren't a whole lot of other options in Cincinnati either.

Then you make other options. You can't have that kind of production from 1B for that long. With the talent outside of 1B on that roster, you'd expect some division titles and maybe a championship out of those years. Rose was never higher than second place as a manager.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Are the Royals the coldest team in baseball now because they've lost six straight?

Or is that still the Astros?

/MBBF

I thank the baseball deities that the Royals have cooled off and that A-Rod isn't on the Kansas City squad. Otherwise this thread would be unbearable.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Over 107 plate appearances. I reported the worst of it, but he was a dreadful hitter for a first baseman from 1982 onward and 1980 was bad enough to reduce most 1B who aren't producing to bench status. If he weren't chasing the record, he would have been out of baseball entirely in 1983.

Through 1979, when he was 38, he was a damned good ballplayer. And 1981 was more than decent, too.



A 99 OPS+ for a first baseman with well below-average fielding. Yes, god awful.



That was 272 plate appearances at a mind-boggling 61 OPS+ - you think twice about a gold-glove shortstop who puts up those numbers. Esasky wasn't a great option, but he was a slightly better fielder and just entering his prime at 26. He had a good year the following season. No sentient manager would have kept Rose on the roster. Perez had been a serviceable backup the previous year, but terrible for a while before that, and only slightly better than Rose that year.



Then you make other options. You can't have that kind of production from 1B for that long. With the talent outside of 1B on that roster, you'd expect some division titles and maybe a championship out of those years. Rose was never higher than second place as a manager.

You have to think that time though. It was all about Rose, and there really wasn't anything more to it. Rose was a Cincy boy, and Rose was Schott's boy. He started there, all she wanted was to watch him play and have him break the record in a Reds uniform where he belonged. She's the owner. Sure it didn't help the team win a WS, but it did put butts in the seats, and butts equals $$$.

As for Ichiro, he is one of the premiere hitters in baseball history. I think he is a lock for the HOF.

[JPhillips]

Ichiro has OPS+ numbers of 86, 94 and 84 over the past three seasons. Considering he's corner outfielder, does that make him god-awful?

[SackAttack]

He's still a defensive wizard out there though, JPhillips - which was the other half of what Jim was saying. You can be a stud hitter with glove issues or you can be a defensive wizard and have the team pick you up offensively and in either scenario still provide value to the team.

Jim's assertion is that by the end of his career, Rose was doing neither.

[sterlingice]

I'd still be perfectly happy with a 75 win season and a fired GM. But that probably won't happen- the latter part, especially.

It was fun to root for a winning team for three weeks, tho

SI

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Ichiro has OPS+ numbers of 86, 94 and 84 over the past three seasons. Considering he's corner outfielder, does that make him god-awful?

As I said, he is in decline. He's not helping much and I would be surprised if the Yankees kept him after 2014, when his contract is up. Ideally, he should think about retirement now. His cumulative WAR over the last three seasons is 4.5, which doesn't justify a starting role moving forward. He's not god-awful yet, but he might be next year.

Rose, meanwhile, had a cumulative -1.2 WAR for his last six seasons. 0 is replacement level.

My argument was that if Ichiro had Rose's drive for personal glory and were named manager somewhere, he might be able to flounder his way toward 4,000 hits if he played until 45. But, taking another look at the numbers, I don't think that he would get close. Like most non-steroided players, the decline gets pretty sharp at 38-40. I don't think Ichiro will get to 3,000.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Los Angeles Angels expected to have new manager or GM - report - ESPN Los Angeles

[bhlloy]

If we buy both, can we get a new owner thrown in on the deal as well?

[SackAttack]

Ellsbury gives the Dodgers a gift in the top of the 9th by abandoning first base with two outs, but it doesn't look like the offense is going to capitalize.

[Danny]

Long short of the longest game, but I wonder if 396 pitches thrown by a single team is a record?

[Suicane75]

I imagine It must have happened in my lifetime, but I don't recall ever seeing a boxscore where a player had 10 AB's in a game.

[JPhillips]

The Reds had a fun box score last night. Hitters 2-8 all had 2 hits and 0 walks. Choo, batting first, had 0 hits and 2 walks.

[sterlingice]

I love box score fun

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I imagine It must have happened in my lifetime, but I don't recall ever seeing a boxscore where a player had 10 AB's in a game.

I love that the batters before and after each had 10 plate appearances but only 5 and 6 ABs with 5 and 4 walks.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The Reds had a fun box score last night. Hitters 2-8 all had 2 hits and 0 walks. Choo, batting first, had 0 hits and 2 walks.

Bronson Arroyo needed to get with the program.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Danny

Long short of the longest game, but I wonder if 396 pitches thrown by a single team is a record?

Just looked and B-R doesn't start recording pitch counts until 1988 so some cursory Googling doesn't turn up much info on that question and, even if there was a recorded count, it would only take into account a small fraction of baseball history.

SI

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I love box score fun



I love that the batters before and after each had 10 plate appearances but only 5 and 6 ABs with 5 and 4 walks.



Bronson Arroyo needed to get with the program.

SI

June 3, 1989 Los Angeles Dodgers at Houston Astros Box Score and Play by Play - Baseball-Reference.com

John Shelby 0-10 in the 22 inning barn burner of Dodgers at Astros in 1989.

[Solecismic]

I feel bad for the poor schlub who not only went 0-for-7 with a golden sombrero, but took over on the mound in the 18th after his bullpen recorded 11 straight scoreless innings and proceeded to allow seven straight baserunners to put the game out of reach.

Ballplayers are allowed to leave a handful of tickets for friends and family. Hopefully he didn't use his yesterday.

[sterlingice]

The good news is that if he had used them, they had probably left before the 18th

SI

[spleen1015]

2013 Houston Astros: Baseball's Worst Team Is The Most Profitable In History - Forbes

It will be interesting to see if the Astros start spending money within the next few years.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

2013 Houston Astros: Baseball's Worst Team Is The Most Profitable In History - Forbes

It will be interesting to see if the Astros start spending money within the next few years.

WTF Marlins? We can't even do this shit right?

[RedKingGold]

Saw on Twitter that Matt Harvey may have torn his UCL. Even as a Phillies fan, that makes me sad. He was awesome to watch.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Sucks for baseball.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Saw on Twitter that Matt Harvey may have torn his UCL. Even as a Phillies fan, that makes me sad. He was awesome to watch.

Partial tear confirmed. Rosenthal reports he's shut down for the season and they'll see if he needs TJ surgery.

Of course.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Logan

Partial tear confirmed. Rosenthal reports he's shut down for the season and they'll see if he needs TJ surgery.

Of course.

Is it really that big a deal anymore? I'm not sure why pitchers just don't reach the age of 31 and just do it because they can give their arm new life.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by rowech

Is it really that big a deal anymore? I'm not sure why pitchers just don't reach the age of 31 and just do it because they can give their arm new life.

It's not the "big deal" that it once was, but would you ever say losing the second best pitcher in the league for likely a year wouldn't be a big deal?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by rowech

Is it really that big a deal anymore? I'm not sure why pitchers just don't reach the age of 31 and just do it because they can give their arm new life.

I figure at some point, they will start doing this... like it's a normal thing to just go and get the surgery even if needed or not.

[Logan]

Press conference gems from the Mets brass...

Sandy Alderson: "Harvey has been having forearm issues for some time, and he's been receiving extra treatment."

5 minutes later...

Terry Collins: "Yesterday was the first time I heard of any issues with him."

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by rowech

Is it really that big a deal anymore? I'm not sure why pitchers just don't reach the age of 31 and just do it because they can give their arm new life.

There's still a 15% or so chance a pitcher just isn't the same. It's not as damning as it once was, but there is still some significant risk involved in the surgery.

Supposedly, it's a partial tear which doesn't typically require surgery. Hopefully he responds to rehab and is ready to go next year.

This also shows us how much we really know about pitching. We have no idea how much damage was done before and since he was drafted. The mechanics experts have graded him excellent since he's been in New York, but the Mets also made some changes to his mechanics after he was drafted. We still don't understand what caused this or really how injuries like this happen.

[Lathum]

FML

[SackAttack]

Woof.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Logan

It's not the "big deal" that it once was, but would you ever say losing the second best pitcher in the league for likely a year wouldn't be a big deal?

Are the Mets going somewhere next year? I'd be mad if it was my team's pitcher but the majority of these guys come back now and come back just as good.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by rowech

Are the Mets going somewhere next year? I'd be mad if it was my team's pitcher but the majority of these guys come back now and come back just as good.

Unlikely, but with a couple solid FA bats, continued development/promotion of the young guys it wouldn't have been a shock if they competed for a wild card in 14.

[tucker rocky]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Saw on Twitter that Matt Harvey may have torn his UCL. Even as a Phillies fan, that makes me sad. He was awesome to watch.

Matt Harvey Asks New Yorkers About Matt Harvey - YouTube

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by molson

I don't know what the purpose of those epic, lengthy, artificial statements are, or how much his lawyers make to draft them, but wouldn't the public perception of Braun be better if he just acted like a human being and apologized for cheating? I'm sure the lawyers debated for hours trying to decide what the most innocent-sounding method of drug ingestion was and they came up with "a cream and a lozenge." But nobody buys it or gives a shit. The guy just comes off incredibly phony.

The best legal advice isn't always the best PR advice. Braun probably figured his public image is shot to hell no matter what, so picking the legal advice is probably the "correct" move.

[tarcone]

Wainwright came back with no problems. Probably better.

Cardinals start a stretch of 13 games against the Reds and Pirates. This could be the division right here.

If the cards go 9-4 or better, I think the season is over. Their last 19 games are all very winnable games. And, knock on wood, not pose a great threat.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

This also shows us how much we really know about pitching. We have no idea how much damage was done before and since he was drafted. The mechanics experts have graded him excellent since he's been in New York, but the Mets also made some changes to his mechanics after he was drafted. We still don't understand what caused this or really how injuries like this happen.

Yeah, pitching mechanics analysis only gets you so far. "Perfect" mechanics just means less stress on the joints than "mechanics", but there's still a lot of stress. Seems probable that there are variations from person to person in terms of the ability of their tendons to handle that stress.

Taking a look at video of him, seems like he does indeed have good mechanics, though I couldn't tell if he throws pronated breaking pitches (which would theoretically save some stress on the elbow).

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Yasiel Puig

“I’m happy, Hanley is happy, Uribe looks scared. What an ugly face my friend Uribe has. But I love him.”

LOL

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by rowech

Every fucking time.

Arrgh. FFS.

[tarcone]

Grand slams are awesome. Especially against the Reds. And when it puts you up 8-5.

[Atocep]

The Pirates get Marlon Byrd and John Buck from the Mets. Good move by the Pirates (only $130k is owed to Byrd) and they really had no value to the Mets.

[Logan]

You know anything about the 2B/SS going to the Mets, Dilson Herrera?

[JPhillips]

Really wish the Reds would have put a claim on Byrd. Either they would have blocked the Pirates or landed a bat for the OF.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Really wish the Reds would have put a claim on Byrd. Either they would have blocked the Pirates or landed a bat for the OF.

Getting to feel the Reds season is destined for massive disappointment one way or the other. I wonder if they could blow the wildcard losing to the Cards and Pirates a lot down the stretch.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The Pirates get Marlon Byrd and John Buck from the Mets. Good move by the Pirates (only $130k is owed to Byrd) and they really had no value to the Mets.

Damn, with Marte out that really is a helluva deal.