Console Discussion/E3/Tokyo Game Show Thread

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Sack! you ruined it. I was pulling for the rare sextudola.

I'm sure it's already been accomplished in this thread a couple times.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Sack! you ruined it. I was pulling for the rare sextudola.

Which would match the number of times you've swore you wouldn't post in this thread any more.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Some interesting tweets about today's numbers.

Dodd Scientifics ‏@DoddSci 2h

Was just told by a very trusted source the the XB1 sales worldwide are between 4.4 and 4.55 million as of last week.

Dodd Scientifics ‏@DoddSci 1h

5 mil shipped, somewhere around 4.5mil sold. Source is on MS side of fence. I trust the numbers.

That would mean that there's roughly 500-600k XB1's on the shelves as we speak since they just announced that they've shipped 5M units worldwide.

Ahsan Rasheed ‏@thuway 1h

Major Nelson on reddit: "We know what we need to do." Price cut announcement incoming at E3?

I mentioned it before and was laughed at by SackAttack, but it's a no brainer at this point and I'm not the only one that thinks that. I'm shocked that Sack believes that MS has any other option to revive their console's hopes.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Which would match the number of times you've swore you wouldn't post in this thread any more.

Not that you have ever been one to let facts get in the way of a good argument..but Ive got a wager for ya.

Find 6 instances in this thread where I swore I would never post again and not only will I leave this thread I will ask Ben to delete my username and block my IP from even viewing the thread then you can laugh at me all you want.

Deal?

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That would mean that there's roughly 500-600k XB1's on the shelves as we speak since they just announced that they've shipped 5M units worldwide.

[Kodos]

Sorry. I'm terrible with Photoshop.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm shocked that Sack believes that MS has any other option to revive their console's hopes.

[jeff061]

Sony will be buying out the charred remains of MS by July.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Sony will be buying out the charred remains of MS by July.

I'd assumed the reason the reason they sold off their Square Enix shares was so they'd have enough cash on hand to buy Microsoft outright.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Originally Posted by jeff061

Sony will be buying out the charred remains of MS by July.

Weren't many media outlets writing off the PS3 (the more expensive and harder to program console) about a year after both consoles released and the Xbox 360 had a fairly large lead?

I went to Wal-mart today and both consoles were in stock and both had a layer of dust on the boxes. Based on that observation, I've decided this console generation is a massive failure.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Weren't many media outlets writing off the PS3 (the more expensive and harder to program console) about a year after both consoles released and the Xbox 360 had a fairly large lead?

I went to Wal-mart today and both consoles were in stock and both had a layer of dust on the boxes. Based on that observation, I've decided this console generation is a massive failure.

Yes, they were writing off the PS3 and rightfully so. They had gone from the industry leader to the appearance of a bunch of bumbling fools that were totally disconnected with the customer base (which sounds awfully familiar).

Sony's only victory last generation was pulling basically even with MS, mostly thanks to their overseas appeal. They also learned a valuable lesson that you can never take your customers for granted. Do you think that MS will be able to make that same thing happen? My money would be on 'no'.

[jeff061]

Rightfully so? Your and my definition of that statement are very very different, considering how they weren't right.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Rightfully so? Your and my definition of that statement are very very different, considering how they weren't right.

They weren't right that Sony lost last generation for all intensive purposes? I'd totally disagree with that. When you're in a market leader position, you only 'win' if you retain that advantage or increase it.

Similarly, MS's win point this generation was to retain their market share (especially here in the states) or increase it some. They've done neither and there's not a lot of reasons to think that's going to change barring a game changing move on the price and accessory front.

[MacroGuru]

I think it boils down to a consumer like myself. I don't see the appeal of stepping up to next gen yet. I am a Microsoft fan, have been for quite a while.

Right now, neither gen console appeals to me, they really don't and when they do, I will make my decision to purchase based upon where I am at in life and what fits my style. I would say it's an 80/20 lean of me going XB1 but it's going to be a while.

I also feel that as a consumer with limited disposable income right now, there are a lot of folks with me right now.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yes, they were writing off the PS3 and rightfully so. They had gone from the industry leader to the appearance of a bunch of bumbling fools that were totally disconnected with the customer base (which sounds awfully familiar).

Sony's only victory last generation was pulling basically even with MS, mostly thanks to their overseas appeal. They also learned a valuable lesson that you can never take your customers for granted. Do you think that MS will be able to make that same thing happen? My money would be on 'no'.

And exactly what would you have bet before last gen? Remember, when you were busy convincing everyone Sony would dominate the market even after the 360 took a dominating lead and held it. Sony had NO victory last gen. They took what was an overwhelming market share and pissed it away in one generation. Very rarely has something so incompetent been done in the history of retail, much less video game consoles.

They've had a good start to this gen, but even if they beat MS by a 60-40 share or 65/35, that was simply unthinkable last gen.

But I've posted long enough, so I'll answer your last question for you:

Do I think that MS will learn a marketing lesson, lick their wounds and recover? I don't know, the company that sells somewhere between 80 and 120 billion dollars worth of product a year? Yeah, I think they probably got to where they are by figuring out how to make money and how to succeed.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

intensive purposes

[stevew]

This thread is like Garfield without Garfield.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Sony's only victory last generation was pulling basically even with MS, mostly thanks to their overseas appeal. They also learned a valuable lesson that you can never take your customers for granted. Do you think that MS will be able to make that same thing happen? My money would be on 'no'.

Actually I think Sony's main victory last generation is that nobody remembers HD-DVD. The PS3 had a big role in that.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Some interesting tweets about today's numbers.



That would mean that there's roughly 500-600k XB1's on the shelves as we speak since they just announced that they've shipped 5M units worldwide.



I mentioned it before and was laughed at by SackAttack, but it's a no brainer at this point and I'm not the only one that thinks that. I'm shocked that Sack believes that MS has any other option to revive their console's hopes.

I laugh at you because you're behaving like a buffoon. Look, as far as you're concerned, Microsoft can't win. If they'd sold a bazillion Titanfall bundles or standalone Ones relating to Titanfall, you'd dismiss it as a temporary bump and say that the price would still kill them in the long run, that a cut would be necessary to survive. If they say "we know what we have to do," your assumption is that that means a price cut. What business sense does it make to say "we need to cut prices to be competitive but we're going to wait two months to do it"? There could be any number of reasons they think they're getting beat, and while price is significant, it's only one reason.

So, yes. I'm going to laugh at you as long as you keep riding the Hypocrite Train. If you want to talk about the great things you see coming from Sony, that's fantastic. Every time you open your mouth about Microsoft, you turn into a giant concern troll. Derisive laughter, given your track record at predictions, is the only rational response.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I laugh at you because you're behaving like a buffoon. Look, as far as you're concerned, Microsoft can't win. If they'd sold a bazillion Titanfall bundles or standalone Ones relating to Titanfall, you'd dismiss it as a temporary bump and say that the price would still kill them in the long run, that a cut would be necessary to survive. If they say "we know what we have to do," your assumption is that that means a price cut. What business sense does it make to say "we need to cut prices to be competitive but we're going to wait two months to do it"? There could be any number of reasons they think they're getting beat, and while price is significant, it's only one reason.

So, yes. I'm going to laugh at you as long as you keep riding the Hypocrite Train. If you want to talk about the great things you see coming from Sony, that's fantastic. Every time you open your mouth about Microsoft, you turn into a giant concern troll. Derisive laughter, given your track record at predictions, is the only rational response.

That's simply false. If they sold a bazillion Ones, Sony would be dead in the water.

It's been circulated through most sites that MS execs are very concerned that they weren't able to win the NPD last month. When you build up a release like they did with Titanfall, it better deliver. It didn't and everyone knows it.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

When you build up a release like they did with Titanfall, it better deliver. It didn't and everyone knows it.

But that isn't a flaw with the console. They pinned their hopes on a game that was obviously going to suck. Instead of spending millions for exclusivity, they should've thrown that money at making sure Halo 5 was available at launch.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

But that isn't a flaw with the console. They pinned their hopes on a game that was obviously going to suck. Instead of spending millions for exclusivity, they should've thrown that money at making sure Halo 5 was available at launch.

Don't disagree with anything you've said here. You're exactly right.

[jaygr]

It is too bad Xbox already lost this generation and companies will no longer make games for it. The Madden, Battlefield, FIFA, COD, GTA, etc. games of the future sure would have been fun on my Xbox One. I guess I better sell it now while it still may have some value.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That's simply false. If they sold a bazillion Ones, Sony would be dead in the water.

We're not talking about reality. You've proven yourself incapable of handling reality.

We're talking about the inevitable spin you would place on the numbers. If there's one thing I can count on you to do where Sony and Microsoft are concerned, it's look for a way to shift the goalposts to enhance the position you've taken.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

We're not talking about reality. You've proven yourself incapable of handling reality.

We're talking about the inevitable spin you would place on the numbers. If there's one thing I can count on you to do where Sony and Microsoft are concerned, it's look for a way to shift the goalposts to enhance the position you've taken.

Alright, you tell me how you see this going. You think MS has the ability to turn around the trends we're currently seeing? If so, what is the trigger that reverses this trend because the status quo isn't going to cut it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by jaygr

It is too bad Xbox already lost this generation and companies will no longer make games for it. The Madden, Battlefield, FIFA, COD, GTA, etc. games of the future sure would have been fun on my Xbox One. I guess I better sell it now while it still may have some value.

You'll still get all those games. But all the PS3 fans will tell you just how much it sucks to get sub-optimal ports of those games for an entire generation, which is what is already happening and will continue to happen going forward.

I can tell you. It's not good.

[mckerney]

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You'll still get all those games. But all the PS3 fans will tell you just how much it sucks to get sub-optimal ports of those games for an entire generation, which is what is already happening and will continue to happen going forward.

I can tell you. It's not good.

Don't worry about all the poor XBox players. They'll all be ok and enjoy games on their system just fine.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I thought it was pretty telling -- for both consoles -- that my son is talking about switching to PC far more than about either console.

Thought it was also VERY telling that his 15-19 year old gaming cronies currently have only 3 next gen consoles between them & 2 of those belong to the rich kid who always buys both (and then rarely plays either).

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Alright, you tell me how you see this going. You think MS has the ability to turn around the trends we're currently seeing? If so, what is the trigger that reverses this trend because the status quo isn't going to cut it.

Let's see here. In March 2007, a handful of months after the launch of the PS3, not only was Xbox 360 outselling PS3 by not quite 2:1, but the PS2 was outselling the PS3. To repeat: Microsoft shifted 770k Xbox 360's to 466k PS3's in a comparable time period. In case you're incapable of doing math, that means the gap between the two consoles was five times the gap you seem to think Xbox One owners should be going all Chicken Little over.

Oh, and by comparison, that Xbox One you think absolutely has to have a price cut or it will fade into the dustbin of history? It just happened to outsell its predecessor by not quite 3:1. Which, you know, the PS3 couldn't boast at a comparable point in its lifespan.

Does Microsoft need to cut the price if they want to reach a larger market? Fucking duh. So does Sony.

Is being outsold by 60k in the month a harbinger of doom and gloom and the end of all things for Microsoft? Not hardly. Yes, they want to be in a stronger position than they currently are. Yes, ultimately, a price cut is going to be part of that strategy.

No, Sony doesn't have them over the proverbial barrel right now. Yeah, they're going to beat Microsoft globally. They did so with a less desirable product in the PS3 because Microsoft has no traction in Asia. I don't get the sense Microsoft gives a shit. They're focused on Europe and North America, and while they're not in the position of leadership they'd like to be in, their position isn't nearly so dire as Sony's was 7 years ago. It's not remotely close.

And you're still wearing the Buffoon Cap.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

intensive purposes

Its mind bottling.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Alright, you tell me how you see this going. You think MS has the ability to turn around the trends we're currently seeing? If so, what is the trigger that reverses this trend because the status quo isn't going to cut it.

A price cut and the aforementioned Halo 5.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You'll still get all those games. But all the PS3 fans will tell you just how much it sucks to get sub-optimal ports of those games for an entire generation, which is what is already happening and will continue to happen going forward.

I can tell you. It's not good.

Madden seemed to play fine for me. As did the Arkham games.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You'll still get all those games. But all the PS3 fans will tell you just how much it sucks to get sub-optimal ports of those games for an entire generation, which is what is already happening and will continue to happen going forward.

I can tell you. It's not good.

I am definitely glad that the PS4 is the primary dev console this gen.

[dubb93]

I have had the most puzzling experience of my video game playing life today (Alright, maybe 2nd most puzzling, Psycho Mantis blew my mind) attempting to install NBA 2K14. First off...the install is massive. Borderline unacceptably massive. Almost 50 gigs for a disk based game on a system that comes with a 500 gig hard drive that you can't use all of. But that is another story.

My first attempt to install the game hit 65% and completely froze. I deleted the data and tried again. This time it froze at 2%. Same process again, this time it gets to 3% and completely freezes, yet this time I get a surprise present of invisible players during the quick start game. Try guarding those guys.

I take the disk out and it looks like it took a complete shit beating (It was mint when it went in the PS4). I clean it and start the process again. This time it freezes at 82%. I then have to take the disk out AGAIN and clean it since it looks like it took another shit beating in the PS4. I don't delete the local data this time and when I put the disk back in it gets to 100%. Anyone have any idea what the hell just happened during this install?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I have had the most puzzling experience of my video game playing life today (Alright, maybe 2nd most puzzling, Psycho Mantis blew my mind) attempting to install NBA 2K14. First off...the install is massive. Borderline unacceptably massive. Almost 50 gigs for a disk based game on a system that comes with a 500 gig hard drive that you can't use all of. But that is another story.

My first attempt to install the game hit 65% and completely froze. I deleted the data and tried again. This time it froze at 2%. Same process again, this time it gets to 3% and completely freezes, yet this time I get a surprise present of invisible players during the quick start game. Try guarding those guys.

I take the disk out and it looks like it took a complete shit beating (It was mint when it went in the PS4). I clean it and start the process again. This time it freezes at 82%. I then have to take the disk out AGAIN and clean it since it looks like it took another shit beating in the PS4. I don't delete the local data this time and when I put the disk back in it gets to 100%. Anyone have any idea what the hell just happened during this install?

Nope, no clue. It installed fine and worked ok for me.

As ticked off as I was when MS first announced the no disc system, I've quickly changed. I HATE having to keep changing CD's in this generation. I'm lazy and I don't want to get up everytime I want to change a freaking game. I forgot how much I love Steam on the PC. I think MLB the show will be my last hard cd purchase. After that, I'll make all my purchases electronically.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Nope, no clue. It installed fine and worked ok for me.

As ticked off as I was when MS first announced the no disc system, I've quickly changed. I HATE having to keep changing CD's in this generation. I'm lazy and I don't want to get up everytime I want to change a freaking game. I forgot how much I love Steam on the PC. I think MLB the show will be my last hard cd purchase. After that, I'll make all my purchases electronically.

If they would run the big Steam discounts, I would be all in. As is, the only way I can justify the expensive console games are when retail stores run sales. Target's B2G1 free with Amazon price matching is probably as good as sales get on consoles.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I am definitely glad that the PS4 is the primary dev console this gen.

Most of the XB fans haven't dealt with the situation where exclusives and primary development are on the other console. And a lot of them point to the current games as a sign that there's no big difference. The big differences don't come until 2-3 years down the road when they optimize and streamline development on the consoles.

I'm with you that I'm glad I'm on the right side of the development equation this time around.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Nope, no clue. It installed fine and worked ok for me.

As ticked off as I was when MS first announced the no disc system, I've quickly changed. I HATE having to keep changing CD's in this generation. I'm lazy and I don't want to get up everytime I want to change a freaking game. I forgot how much I love Steam on the PC. I think MLB the show will be my last hard cd purchase. After that, I'll make all my purchases electronically.

I don't object to the idea of installation and then running it off the hard drive.

The problem for me was two-fold: first, the phone-home aspect of it, where the console had to be connected in order to be able to play the game. And second, the fact that the Xbox One's hard drive is not only pre-installed, but non-upgradeable. You have to go with external storage if you fill the hard drive with installs or downloads or whatever. When you've got 50 GB of data on a disc and a 500 GB hard drive, you either run out of space a lot quicker than you think you're going to, or you're going to be doing a lot more installs than you think (because it's easy to say well, I'll just delete it when I'm done, but the next time you wanna play? oops).

Digital purchases in general on consoles I'm leery of, especially with Microsoft. They may say "No, no, don't worry; we'll never pull the plug on Live and leave you unable to acquire previously paid-for content."

The reality is that THEY DID EXACTLY THAT with the original Xbox. Any content that you purchased in their first generation, you'd better have saved on a hard drive somewhere, because you are now SOL.

In a more general sense, you've got cases of a game being released, but kind of parted out for DLC so the publisher can make more money. Then the DLC expires, and even if you buy a brand-new copy of the game (never mind picking it up at a garage sale in five years), whoops. You have an "incomplete" version of the game (see: Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2).

I mean, if we were talking about complete versions of the game available either hard copy or digitally, it might be different for me. The issue is that there are so many other shenanigans which either have taken place or have the potential to take place that I simply don't trust anybody enough in the console space to purchase a AAA title digitally.

Smaller stuff, or stuff which goes on sale dirt-cheap, yeah. Sure. Full price, or anywhere close to it? Not on a dare.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I don't object to the idea of installation and then running it off the hard drive.

The problem for me was two-fold: first, the phone-home aspect of it, where the console had to be connected in order to be able to play the game. And second, the fact that the Xbox One's hard drive is not only pre-installed, but non-upgradeable. You have to go with external storage if you fill the hard drive with installs or downloads or whatever. When you've got 50 GB of data on a disc and a 500 GB hard drive, you either run out of space a lot quicker than you think you're going to, or you're going to be doing a lot more installs than you think (because it's easy to say well, I'll just delete it when I'm done, but the next time you wanna play? oops).

Digital purchases in general on consoles I'm leery of, especially with Microsoft. They may say "No, no, don't worry; we'll never pull the plug on Live and leave you unable to acquire previously paid-for content."

The reality is that THEY DID EXACTLY THAT with the original Xbox. Any content that you purchased in their first generation, you'd better have saved on a hard drive somewhere, because you are now SOL.

In a more general sense, you've got cases of a game being released, but kind of parted out for DLC so the publisher can make more money. Then the DLC expires, and even if you buy a brand-new copy of the game (never mind picking it up at a garage sale in five years), whoops. You have an "incomplete" version of the game (see: Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2).

I mean, if we were talking about complete versions of the game available either hard copy or digitally, it might be different for me. The issue is that there are so many other shenanigans which either have taken place or have the potential to take place that I simply don't trust anybody enough in the console space to purchase a AAA title digitally.

Smaller stuff, or stuff which goes on sale dirt-cheap, yeah. Sure. Full price, or anywhere close to it? Not on a dare.

Agreed with everything here.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by TroyF

As ticked off as I was when MS first announced the no disc system, I've quickly changed. I HATE having to keep changing CD's in this generation. I'm lazy and I don't want to get up everytime I want to change a freaking game. I forgot how much I love Steam on the PC. I think MLB the show will be my last hard cd purchase. After that, I'll make all my purchases electronically.

I can't speak for the US experience, but it will be a long time before I start buying exclusively from the PlayStation store in the UK.

1 - The download sizes. If a PS4 game is anything close to 50gb it is going to need a better internet connection than the 15mb I have at the moment or it will take forever to download.

2 - The price. This is the largest factory by far. To pick an example, FIFA 14 is £60 in the PlayStation Store, and £22 at Amazon. That is a $64 premium to buy the downloadable game! I don't think I have ever seen FIFA in stores for more than £45, even on release day.

Some of the sale prices are good, but the full prices are absolutely crazy.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I am definitely glad that the PS4 is the primary dev console this gen.

There likely won't be as much of an advantage to being the primary console this generation since there isn't a huge difference between the two major consoles. Both use 8 core x86 processors with AMD Radeon GPUs. There may be an advantage to the lead platform though I doubt it will be anything major.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by mckerney

There likely won't be as much of an advantage to being the primary console this generation since there isn't a huge difference between the two major consoles. Both use 8 core x86 processors with AMD Radeon GPUs. There may be an advantage to the lead platform though I doubt it will be anything major.

Someone hasn't been paying attention to major release news over the past few months. The problem isn't the horsepower. It's the operating system/peripherals.

[mckerney]

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by mckerney

There likely won't be as much of an advantage to being the primary console this generation since there isn't a huge difference between the two major consoles. Both use 8 core x86 processors with AMD Radeon GPUs. There may be an advantage to the lead platform though I doubt it will be anything major.

Since primary dev is on PS4, I really don't care much about whatever differences there are. I'm happy enough to know that the PS4 version of multiplatform games will be the optimal versions.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I'm guessing it's easier to just post rolleyes as a rebuttal rather than actually admitting that you're wrong. Developers have made it very clear that the performance differences aren't going to change anytime soon, if ever. We've seen several articles discussing the differences. Here's one of the most recent ones from a developer.

Performance Gap Between PS4 & X1 Not Disappearing » Worlds Factory

Now, some have asserted that they can enjoy their X1 regardless and that's a totally different argument. But as far as the performance of the consoles, it's been made perfectly clear by most developers and the resulting finished products that there are differences that make the PS4 the stronger console.

[mckerney]

[CU Tiger]

[Kodos]

And yet cartman is the troll.

[BillJasper]

I owned both consoles (PS3, Xbox 360) from last generation and I couldn't honestly tell you which console a multi-platform game was developed for when I got the chance to play both versions (admittedly not often).

I got a PS4, but I would've been just as happy with an Xbox One if that had been the one I purchased from a power and games perspective.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Kodos

And yet cartman is the troll.

Didnt you mean