Werewolf XXXVII: Middle-Earth - GAME ENDS. Who Won? Check it out!

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

blade, you knew i was the seer early on huh?

He pretty much said so with post 1105. Here is your reply...

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

you said her. meaning me or dodgerchick. And you were talking to dodgerchick, so you meant me. What did i hint at or imply?

[LoneStarGirl]

damn he left

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'm pretty sure Blade caught on to hints LSG dropped to him earlier in the game. He even mentioned it as such a few days ago. I'm not sure that there is much I haven't revealed, but all I can say is that I find LSG's story more plausible than Thomkal's right now. Whether or not I completely trust either of them will only be seen later, but LSG's story is good enough for me to want to push us in the direction I am and not lynch either of them.

You are right, Blade did pretty much say that he thought LSG was a seer. I'm not advocating that we lynch her or anything, I'm just checking our assumptions.

LSG, I'm not asking you to reveal more information than you are comfortable revealing. Again, just checking assumptions.

One more assumption to check, Alan, you did say that Izulde got role information but not light/dark affiliation. Do you have a way of knowing what the roles that he sees are? You mentioned the Inn Keeper and the Dwarven Storyteller. Are you assuming that the dark members won't have a normal-sounding job in town? Also, do you know Izulde is good or are you taking LSG's word for it?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

what holiday is today? and blade, answer me: you knew i was the seer huh?

Blade isn't allowed to answer that. its not really sporting since he is dead.

Today is veterans day though!

[LoneStarGirl]

Spleen, he also said he talking to dodgerchick about 10 posts earlier... i thought at the time it might have been a slip of the fingers

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Blade isn't allowed to answer that. its not really sporting since he is dead.

Today is veterans day though!

LSG, thats why im avoiding it. Im dead, so we can talk after the game about whatever you would like

[LoneStarGirl]

Alant, he can say yes or no.... plus Briand I know izulde is good

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Alant, he can say yes or no.... plus Briand I know izulde is good

It's really not a good idea that he give thoughts on the game since he is dead.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by BrianD

You are right, Blade did pretty much say that he thought LSG was a seer. I'm not advocating that we lynch her or anything, I'm just checking our assumptions.

LSG, I'm not asking you to reveal more information than you are comfortable revealing. Again, just checking assumptions.

One more assumption to check, Alan, you did say that Izulde got role information but not light/dark affiliation. Do you have a way of knowing what the roles that he sees are? You mentioned the Inn Keeper and the Dwarven Storyteller. Are you assuming that the dark members won't have a normal-sounding job in town? Also, do you know Izulde is good or are you taking LSG's word for it?

I know Izulde is good, and the roles usually are pretty descriptive. its not the one liner that you get from the first page at death. I knew that Lathum was a dwarf who told story to children. I know Swaggs is a hospitable innkeeper for instance.

I mean sure the bad guys could have a role that tells stories to kids.. but I would think it more likely it would be passing out candy to kids

Sorry I digress...


Either way, one thing we have to keep in mind is that its very possible that the bad guys also get a seer role of some sort. Saruman and Sauron both had palantirs that they could use to scan people with and learn about their actions.

Having someone in this game at this point tell me information about me doesn't necessarily clear them in my mind. Thats why I don't want to take the risk of lynching the wrong seer. Lets let the bad guys do that for us.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Alant, he can say yes or no.... plus Briand I know izulde is good

I heard you say that he was good, I was just looking for outside confirmation from Alan if he has any info.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I heard you say that he was good, I was just looking for outside confirmation from Alan if he has any info.

Yes, this list I trust:

1. AlanT
11. Swaggs
13. Jonathan Ezarik
19. Izulde
22. Grammaticus
24. DaddyTorgo - Ventrick


Swaggs has a list he trusts:

Mr.Wednesday
Schmidty
Jonathan Ezarik


Thomkal has a list he trusts:

Jonathan Ezarik
Schmidty
Mr.Wednesday

Lonestargirl has a list she trusts:

Alan T
Izulde


My thoughts is for today we avoid anyone on any of those lists. There are a handful of people not on any list that we can tackle.

[LoneStarGirl]

Alant, how could you lynch the wrong seer? I am the only seer? I can reveal right now what you are and what you do to prove i am the seer.

[Alan T]

Out of those remaining:

2. BrianD
6. ntndeacon
7. spleen1015
9. Tyrith
12. Dodgerchick
23. Sublime 2

I am feeling ok for now about Dodgerchick and Spleen. Don't trust them, but leaning more to the side they appear ok to me than not.

If I had to choose, I would do a run off today between ntndeacon and sublime

[LoneStarGirl]

i also trust tyrnth because he vouched so hard to lynch thomkal yesterday

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

My name is Nob and I am a stableworker, a hobbit servant of Barliman Butterbur at the Inn of the Prancing Pony.

Another hobbit named Nob?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I know Izulde is good, and the roles usually are pretty descriptive. its not the one liner that you get from the first page at death. I knew that Lathum was a dwarf who told story to children. I know Swaggs is a hospitable innkeeper for instance.

I mean sure the bad guys could have a role that tells stories to kids.. but I would think it more likely it would be passing out candy to kids

Sorry I digress...


Either way, one thing we have to keep in mind is that its very possible that the bad guys also get a seer role of some sort. Saruman and Sauron both had palantirs that they could use to scan people with and learn about their actions.

Having someone in this game at this point tell me information about me doesn't necessarily clear them in my mind. Thats why I don't want to take the risk of lynching the wrong seer. Lets let the bad guys do that for us.

I think I am fine with the plan of leaving Thomkal and LSG alone for the day. We've just had so many reveals in the past few days that I'm trying to wrap my head around all of them. Since I'm not involved in any of them and I have no information, I have to figure out what can and should be believed. I also need to make sure that nobody is pushing things in a bad direction.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Another hobbit named Nob?

That is a typo. My name is Hob. it is an honest mistake.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Alant, how could you lynch the wrong seer? I am the only seer? I can reveal right now what you are and what you do to prove i am the seer.

Like I said, I think the chance the bad guys have a seer role is very possible in this game, one that can reveal information about others. I would assume if you are the good seer like i currently think, you will respect that I have no way to prove this about you otherwise. What I am asking for is to let the bad guys make that move for us.

I think a run off today between ntndeacon and Sublime, two unknowns who both managed to avoid heat yesterday from Blade and myself. I noticed alot of the people who were not voting for ntndeacon are those not on the cleared list.

I think those two is the best place to start today

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

i also trust tyrnth because he vouched so hard to lynch thomkal yesterday

Why would you trust Tyrith for this? What role could he have that would provide him the information to know Thomkal was lying here? I think Tyrith has to stay on the untrust list until "proven" otherwise

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Out of those remaining:

2. BrianD
6. ntndeacon
7. spleen1015
9. Tyrith
12. Dodgerchick
23. Sublime 2

I am feeling ok for now about Dodgerchick and Spleen. Don't trust them, but leaning more to the side they appear ok to me than not.

If I had to choose, I would do a run off today between ntndeacon and sublime

I would really like to see Tyrith lynched today. I have been suspecting him since Day 2 or 3. ntndeacon isn't a bad choice either with all of the suspicion swirling around him.

[Tyrith]

Sigh, well, in this land of ultra-convenient role reveals I am screwed on the island of vanilla people. My name is Canae Hightower, I'm the town miller. I have no idea who I am or where I came from beyond that -- my role PM didn't even give me a race. And I do precisely nothing for a night action.

Alan, how does keeping both seers alive force their hand?

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Why would you trust Tyrith for this? What role could he have that would provide him the information to know Thomkal was lying here? I think Tyrith has to stay on the untrust list until "proven" otherwise

Short of letting me live through today and seering me, and barring even more information gathering roles being revealed, you aren't going to get proof. It's sad but true, I'm not good enough to be scanned

[Alan T]

For whatever its worth, I can see two scenerios right now in my head. One putting a dark cloud on LSG, one on Thomkal. I honestly don't know which to believe which is why I am pushing for neither right now.

1) Lonestargirl is actually a bad guy seer. She knows information about people she scanned because its her role, she just is on the bad guy's side. She was waiting till the real seer to reveal and then set it up to force the good guys to lynch the wrong seer by revealing what she knows making her sound more "real".

2) Thomkal is actually a bad guy, and he gave three names of people who were good guys to try to save himself from the lynch. If he ended up getting lynched anyways, suspicion would be on those three good guys and the villagers would waste time spinning their wheels trying to figure out which if any of those were bad. His move was to try to draw out the real seer to night kill.


Currently I am believing #2 is more likely the case and leaning to thinking LSG is most likely good, but because of reasonable doubt I won't sell my cow for either of these guys magic beans.

LSG right now good or bad probably feels she has the upper hand knowing one little part of my reveal that I enhanced a little bit which she could reveal, but it obviously isn't a huge deal since either way I am good. If she feels she needs to do it then so be it, but i have my reasons for doing what I do

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I would really like to see Tyrith lynched today. I have been suspecting him since Day 2 or 3. ntndeacon isn't a bad choice either with all of the suspicion swirling around him.

The fact that your zeal has been so insane and consistent is the only thing that will keep you safe tomorrow, one way or another.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Sigh, well, in this land of ultra-convenient role reveals I am screwed on the island of vanilla people. My name is Canae Hightower, I'm the town miller. I have no idea who I am or where I came from beyond that -- my role PM didn't even give me a race. And I do precisely nothing for a night action.

Alan, how does keeping both seers alive force their hand?

Because then the bad guys have to make the decision to either continue the ruse by keeping our real seer alive another day to keep their seer out of suspicion, or they kill the real seer and help tell us exactly who the next bad guy to lynch is.

[Alan T]

vote ntndeacon

I know Dodgerchick has a vote out already, but I am hoping she will reconsider and move it. I think a run off between ntndeacon and sublime is best for today.

I'll go with ntndeacon for the third straight day. Please don't take my continuing to vote for him day after day as a sign I know more than I am letting on about him. I don't know anything about ntndeacon right now other than almost the entire untrust list did not vote for him yesterday which is very telling to me.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Alan T

For whatever its worth, I can see two scenerios right now in my head. One putting a dark cloud on LSG, one on Thomkal. I honestly don't know which to believe which is why I am pushing for neither right now.

1) Lonestargirl is actually a bad guy seer. She knows information about people she scanned because its her role, she just is on the bad guy's side. She was waiting till the real seer to reveal and then set it up to force the good guys to lynch the wrong seer by revealing what she knows making her sound more "real".

2) Thomkal is actually a bad guy, and he gave three names of people who were good guys to try to save himself from the lynch. If he ended up getting lynched anyways, suspicion would be on those three good guys and the villagers would waste time spinning their wheels trying to figure out which if any of those were bad. His move was to try to draw out the real seer to night kill.


Currently I am believing #2 is more likely the case and leaning to thinking LSG is most likely good, but because of reasonable doubt I won't sell my cow for either of these guys magic beans.

LSG right now good or bad probably feels she has the upper hand knowing one little part of my reveal that I enhanced a little bit which she could reveal, but it obviously isn't a huge deal since either way I am good. If she feels she needs to do it then so be it, but i have my reasons for doing what I do

I agree that #2 sounds more likely, but I do have a nagging suspicion since Blade "outted" LSG and nobody took her out.

To be honest, I also have to consider the possibility that #1 is true and that you are on her team. You could easily feed her information to "see" through your "enhanced" reveal.

I'm not accusing anyone, but also being a vanilla villager means that I can't take anything on faith.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Because then the bad guys have to make the decision to either continue the ruse by keeping our real seer alive another day to keep their seer out of suspicion, or they kill the real seer and help tell us exactly who the next bad guy to lynch is.

The only problem I have with this plan is that it's highly likely to get me killed today, but I suppose those are the woes of playing WW. But the way that the trust lists have all come together in the last few hours is just too cute. I wonder what the result on Swaggs action would have been if Jonathan, Schmidty, or W were on the opposite bad guy team from Thomkal? This is a possibility that can't be discounted, even if it shouldn't be chased down today.

And you're lucky that LSG cleared you, or your role reveal wouldn't have helped you out, Alan.

I want to see Schmidty finally reveal his role, that's been going on long enough.

Barring even more new information I will probably vote for Thomkal.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

vote ntndeacon

I know Dodgerchick has a vote out already, but I am hoping she will reconsider and move it. I think a run off between ntndeacon and sublime is best for today.

I'll go with ntndeacon for the third straight day. Please don't take my continuing to vote for him day after day as a sign I know more than I am letting on about him. I don't know anything about ntndeacon right now other than almost the entire untrust list did not vote for him yesterday which is very telling to me.

If you're willing to spare me, let's go. I still have quite a bit of trust for sublime. Screw running down Thomkal.

VOTE SUBLIME

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I agree that #2 sounds more likely, but I do have a nagging suspicion since Blade "outted" LSG and nobody took her out.

To be honest, I also have to consider the possibility that #1 is true and that you are on her team. You could easily feed her information to "see" through your "enhanced" reveal.

I'm not accusing anyone, but also being a vanilla villager means that I can't take anything on faith.

I understand that, its possible, however I have a feeling that Izulde will vouch completely for me. And as far as I can tell Izulde and LSG either have been very good actors or really distrusted each other. I also have a feeling I'll get vouched for by many other people. I'm not entirely worried about my trust, but can understand in a game like this nothing is ever absolute.

I will say however that I am pretty sure all of our seers (fake or real) will likely confirm I'm good, regardless of what team they are on. I actually dare someone to come out and say I'm not.

One other thing I looked at.. the people on my "watch list" for today and their votes from yesterday:

2. BrianD - Izulde, Thomkal
6. ntndeacon - izulde, thomkal
7. spleen1015 - tyrith, izulde
9. Tyrith - sublime, mr.wednesday, izulde, thomkal
12. Dodgerchick - Schmidty, Mr.Wednesday
23. Sublime 2 - izulde

Not sure it tells us alot just yet.

[Tyrith]

Alan, it should tell you that I have no freaking idea what I'm doing

Consider me your vote slave for today. I don't think I'm allowed to make another sudden move or I'll get ritualistically slaughtered, so I'll do whatever the village thinks is best.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Alan T

vote ntndeacon

I know Dodgerchick has a vote out already, but I am hoping she will reconsider and move it. I think a run off between ntndeacon and sublime is best for today.

I'll go with ntndeacon for the third straight day. Please don't take my continuing to vote for him day after day as a sign I know more than I am letting on about him. I don't know anything about ntndeacon right now other than almost the entire untrust list did not vote for him yesterday which is very telling to me.

I will grant you that having the entire untrust list not voting for me looks bad. I would still be surprised if none of the bad guys did not vote for me. And if I assume I get lynched today, we will all see another villager vs villager battle. (I am SURE everyone believes this now. lol But it will bear out nonetheless )

[Alan T]

Here is my laundry list that I want from Thomkal. Posting it here so someone please remind me when he does show back up..

1) Who did you (Thomkal) scan last night?

2) What was the result of your scan last night?

3) What is your character name, race and role title?

If you choose to not answer these questions, I will choose to not believe your story any longer.

If you choose to lie about any of it, I'm sure I'll find out.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Well. This sure is getting interesting. I'm not sure what to make of LSG's claim of being a seer, although she has moved closer to me "good" column. I really wish Thomkal was around, and I find it fishy that he didn't tell us who he scanned last night. I don't care if he's not feeling well, at least give us that.

I know I was heavily behind Thomkal last night, but after sleeping on it I'm not so sure. Looking back, calling out Mr. W, Schmidty, and I to save himself does sound evil. At the time he was going to die. And if he dies and it turns out he's evil, then the three he named get clumped into the evil bin as well. It sounds like a good play by a wolf to bring down even more people. And of course, there's this bit of news from Swaggs:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I chose to the part about whether or not Jon, Mr. W, and Schmidty are all good and Thomkal believes that they are.

Note it doesn't say that Thomkal knows that we are good, just that he believes it. I would think that a seer would know for a fact who's good and who isn't.

Having said that, I'm not completely convinced that Thomkal is evil. It is possible that LSG is an evil seer, or perhaps Thomkal is an evil seer (if he's even a seer at all). I agree with the opinion of keeping these two alive and seeing how they play out over the next couple of days.

[Izulde]

I agree with Alan that we can't lynch either of the potential seers today. Pick the wrong one and it's game, set, match Dark. We need to get a bad guy today.

My CoT (first one I've ever made)

1. Alan T
11. Swaggs
13. Jonathan Ezarik
19. Izulde
22. Grammaticus
24. DaddyTorgo

Dodgerchick is real close to being in my CoT as well.

So a run-off between Sublime and ntn, huh? Since Alan is in my CoT and he voted ntn and Tyrith, who is high on my suspicious list after his weirdness in flipping out and changing votes last night, voted Sublime, the choice is clear.

VOTE NTNDEACON

[Tyrith]

Sigh, why is everyone after me for last night when Dodger, LSG, and blade, and perhaps more, agreed with the move? And did anyone else notice that Thomkal finished with _eight_ votes on him? There are more people in this game than me, I just happen to be one of the louder ones :P

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Sigh, why is everyone after me for last night when Dodger, LSG, and blade, and perhaps more, agreed with the move? And did anyone else notice that Thomkal finished with _eight_ votes on him? There are more people in this game than me, I just happen to be one of the louder ones :P

I think it was more your tone of afterwards going way overboard about the impact of it You were probably the most noticable (well you and LSG).

The reason I chose to not target you today is if Thomkal ends up bad, then while you aren't cleared you look less fishy to me. If Thomkal ends up good then... well yeah sorry but you have to go.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Izulde

My CoT (first one I've ever made)

1. Alan T
11. Swaggs
13. Jonathan Ezarik
19. Izulde
22. Grammaticus
24. DaddyTorgo

Glad to see you trust yourself.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Well. This sure is getting interesting. I'm not sure what to make of LSG's claim of being a seer, although she has moved closer to me "good" column. I really wish Thomkal was around, and I find it fishy that he didn't tell us who he scanned last night. I don't care if he's not feeling well, at least give us that.

As a person who suffers from migraines, I'm willing to give this action a pass. Depending on the type of migraine, there are times when I have to lie in a dark room with pillows over my head to block out any bit of light or sound or else I'll be throwing up from the pain. This could be a ploy to give himself more time to think, but I'm not willing to demand anything from a guy with a migraine.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I think it was more your tone of afterwards going way overboard about the impact of it You were probably the most noticable (well you and LSG).

The reason I chose to not target you today is if Thomkal ends up bad, then while you aren't cleared you look less fishy to me. If Thomkal ends up good then... well yeah sorry but you have to go.

If Thomkal is good then you should kill LSG before me. If Thomkal is bad then my going overboard was mostly correct...I just hate that we could have resolved this one way or another last night in the manner that it's still mostly to be resolved.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by BrianD

As a person who suffers from migraines, I'm willing to give this action a pass. Depending on the type of migraine, there are times when I have to lie in a dark room with pillows over my head to block out any bit of light or sound or else I'll be throwing up from the pain. This could be a ploy to give himself more time to think, but I'm not willing to demand anything from a guy with a migraine.

Yeah, maybe I was being a bit harsh. But whatever happened to playing through pain?

[LoneStarGirl]

Wow izulde, after i vouched for you you still dont trust me?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

If Thomkal is good then you should kill LSG before me. If Thomkal is bad then my going overboard was mostly correct...I just hate that we could have resolved this one way or another last night in the manner that it's still mostly to be resolved.

It could have been resolved one way or another last night true But I would rather resolve it later with the possibility of getting more seer data from the real seer before they are killed.

Once the fake seer is outed, there is very little reason to keep the real seer alive for them. They might be soon to that point anyways, but I'm willing to let them make that move for us.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by BrianD

As a person who suffers from migraines, I'm willing to give this action a pass. Depending on the type of migraine, there are times when I have to lie in a dark room with pillows over my head to block out any bit of light or sound or else I'll be throwing up from the pain. This could be a ploy to give himself more time to think, but I'm not willing to demand anything from a guy with a migraine.

I agree. For me personally lying about real life problems is kind of crossing the line. I'm going to trust him in that regard unless and until he gives me a reason to do otherwise.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

It could have been resolved one way or another last night true But I would rather resolve it later with the possibility of getting more seer data from the real seer before they are killed.

Once the fake seer is outed, there is very little reason to keep the real seer alive for them. They might be soon to that point anyways, but I'm willing to let them make that move for us.

Yeah, I can see that point. The way it wounded up going is a safer play, but I also wasn't expecting you to have such good data about people, or that Swaggs would be able to clear Thomkal's list even though Thomkal is probably a fake seer. Last night I seriously thought we had lost the game, but we had more safety valves than I anticipated.

[Tyrith]

We also need to discuss/think about what we're going to do if they let both Thomkal and LSG live through Night 5, leaving us in this limbo state again.

[LoneStarGirl]

damn, i hate following alant's lead. Especially since there is a chance he got converted since i scanned him.....

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Wow izulde, after i vouched for you you still dont trust me?

I appreciate the vouch and I think it's safe to say that you're a seer of some sort, but whether for Light or Dark, it's not certain.

I will say that I lean more towards you being on the Light, but until I know without a doubt that you are, I can't be honest in including you in the CoT.

In any case, you'll notice I'm not clamoring for your head today like I did in the past days.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

We also need to discuss/think about what we're going to do if they let both Thomkal and LSG live through Night 5, leaving us in this limbo state again.

We wouldn't need to discuss that until Day 6, actually. Because frankly, the baddies are taking a gamble if they let the Light seer live another night. Each night that goes by where they don't kill the Light seer is another night where they risk getting themselves outed.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

damn, i hate following alant's lead. Especially since there is a chance he got converted since i scanned him.....

Its comments like this that make me not be able to fully trust you LSG.

You know that I know what you were hinting at earlier. I know that you know this.

You scanned Izulde last night as good. Izulde vouches for me fully. If you really are the good seer, I don't see why you would follow this line of thinking.

Either way, I honestly don't know which to believe more you or THomkal right now. Its very inconvienant that Thomkal is not here right now, as I would love to grill him.

And to Tyrith, if they let both of them live another night then great. One more day of seer reads from both of them for us to use