Werewolf XXXIV: Tombstone (GAME OVER - Night 13) - Page 37

hoopsguy · 10-13-2006, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Barkeep and hoops,

How did you like seeing one of your friends get gunned down? Don't worry. Your turn is coming!

Path, when you get around to reading this - is this an example of effectively questioning someone?

Spleen, do you want me to bother replying to your posts? If so, point out what I've done that has you suspicious. Normally when I question someone I try to give them enough rope to hang themselves or actually convince me they are innocent.

The "nyah-nyah you are a bad guy" line of questioning doesn't really lend itself well to discussion.

Barkeep49 · 10-13-2006, 02:45 PM

So I'm curious to hear if ntn can learn anything from his conversation with cronin that would help us going forward. We know he didn't originally think cronin was a bad guy, but perhaps, after rereading the pm, there is insight there that was missed at first. Alan seems to be big on leaving clues in the writing, at least from my pms, and I'm hoping that perhaps there is something useful that would allow him to act more like a seer even if it's done subtly.

spleen1015 · 10-13-2006, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Path, when you get around to reading this - is this an example of effectively questioning someone?

Spleen, do you want me to bother replying to your posts? If so, point out what I've done that has you suspicious. Normally when I question someone I try to give them enough rope to hang themselves or actually convince me they are innocent.

The "nyah-nyah you are a bad guy" line of questioning doesn't really lend itself well to discussion.

It doesn't matter to me if you reply or not. I've already pointed out what makes me suspicious. I'll do it again.

You and Fouts got into it yesterday. Fouts turns up dead. Now, everyone is thinking that you guys wouldn't kill Fouts after that. I think you would thinking no one would think you guys would be so obvious about it.

I don't know if you have done this sort of thing in the past. I know that you guys have a lot of experience playing WW. With playing so much, you can't keep repeating patterns. So, you need to mix things up a bit and try different things.

If I am wrong, I will admit that and apologize for it. Then, I will have to re-evaluate the way I play, if I choose to play again.

hoopsguy · 10-13-2006, 02:57 PM

OK, what I would like to do is start building a trust matrix - who trusts who and why?

1. Spleen - we have seen him demonstrate his role as Mortician. Accounts of deaths coincide with details known by people who have seen the bodies.
2. Path12 - ???
5. LoneStarGirl - PM link to Racer
6. Anxiety - visited by Lathum and NTN on Night 1, demonstrated skill as actor by appearing as Chief Rum
7. Lathum - visited Anxiety on Night 1
11. Swaggs - cast Mayor vote to save GE from lynch
12. Barkeep - ???
13. Chief Rum - demonstrated role as Tramp on Saldana Night 2.
14. SnDvls - ???
15. Saldana - ???
16. Racer - PM link to LoneStarGirl
17. Hoopsguy - visited by Deacon Night 3, value of this in dispute since Cronin was visited Night 2
18. Chubby - identified Cowboy Cronin
19. Bullet - shot Cowboy Cronin, visited by NTN Night 4
20. Glengoyne

Please fill in anything I'm missing for why people should be trusted, based upon information that has been posted in the thread. Since this is werewolf, I can't update this post to reflect it but this is part of my thinking when I evaluate people.

LoneStarGirl · 10-13-2006, 03:00 PM

[quote=Lathum;1273503]LSG, I'll answer both your questions.

2. This may sound cruel but you can't make an omlette without breaking some eggs. In order to jail 2 people we have to lynch someone, othewise the sheriff has to waste a night action on releasing someone.

QUOTE]

The reason I asked this is because I dont want yall thinking you HAVE to lynch me. I am an innocent villager that was jailed because nobody could vouch for me. but now that ntn can vouch, i should be released. Bullet is going to take down St. Cronin, so that should count as a kill tonight that we all wanted. Release me and lets put somebody EVERYBODY suspects instead of somebody two or three people do.

LoneStarGirl · 10-13-2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

LSG, here are a couple of questions:
1.) did you have any night that you left your house?
2.) do you have any money or have the ability to accumulate any money over the course of the game?
3.) does your role of the singer allow you to interact with other players in any fashion?

NO, NO, NO

I can't leave the house, I can't do shit. I sit at home all day and sing to myself because that is all i know how to do. I have no vices, I have no actions.

bulletsponge · 10-13-2006, 03:06 PM

agree

Release LSG

bulletsponge · 10-13-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

NO, NO, NO

I can't leave the house, I can't do shit. I sit at home all day and sing to myself because that is all i know how to do. I have no vices, I have no actions.

poor girl. you sound like you need some company

hoopsguy · 10-13-2006, 03:08 PM

Spleen, it isn't a matter of trying to make you feel bad about your play when you wrong. What I'm asking for is an actual conversation about how you see events that allows for give and take. I'm not at all interested in stopping you from advancing your thoughts on the game.

In terms of Barkeep, I think you can see from my "trust matrix" that I don't know of any events that suggest his Bartender role is benevolent. But that is equally true for other people in the game such as Glengoyne, who I don't even have an inkling of a role. Or Racer, whose linkage with LSG is pretty difficult for anyone else to validate at a later point in the game.

spleen1015 · 10-13-2006, 03:09 PM

Man, this game is tough and I think I play it poorly.

It is fun though!

hoopsguy · 10-13-2006, 03:10 PM

Bullet, you have been a pretty firm (put that innuendo in just for you) supporter of LSG throughout the game. Is there an in-game reason for it or is it just a matter of hitting on the one female player?

It is a serious question.

LoneStarGirl · 10-13-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, what I would like to do is start building a trust matrix - who trusts who and why?

1. Spleen - we have seen him demonstrate his role as Mortician. Accounts of deaths coincide with details known by people who have seen the bodies.
2. Path12 - ???
5. LoneStarGirl - PM link to Racer
6. Anxiety - visited by Lathum and NTN on Night 1, demonstrated skill as actor by appearing as Chief Rum
7. Lathum - visited Anxiety on Night 1
11. Swaggs - cast Mayor vote to save GE from lynch
12. Barkeep - ???
13. Chief Rum - demonstrated role as Tramp on Saldana Night 2.
14. SnDvls - ???
15. Saldana - ???
16. Racer - PM link to LoneStarGirl
17. Hoopsguy - visited by Deacon Night 3, value of this in dispute since Cronin was visited Night 2
18. Chubby - identified Cowboy Cronin
19. Bullet - shot Cowboy Cronin, visited by NTN Night 4
20. Glengoyne

Please fill in anything I'm missing for why people should be trusted, based upon information that has been posted in the thread. Since this is werewolf, I can't update this post to reflect it but this is part of my thinking when I evaluate people.

There are five people with question marks by their name and yet i am the one in jail. At least Racer sort of vouched for me. And NTN will clear me whenever he gets home from work today. I suggest we put pressure on Saldana, Glen, Barkeep, SNDVLS, and path.

Elect Chubby

bulletsponge · 10-13-2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Bullet, you have been a pretty firm (put that innuendo in just for you) supporter of LSG throughout the game. Is there an in-game reason for it or is it just a matter of hitting on the one female player?

It is a serious question.

i tend to be friendlier with a woman playing. I have no proof of LSG, she could be a villager or cowboy for all i know. but there has been 0 evidence against her and yet some of yall want her to hang. that goes with my overall philosophy not to hang unless you have decent odds they are a badie that ive had in all my games ( exception made for chubby)

killing someone like LSG wont give us any info if she is a villager because nobody has vouched for her or offer any info about her. she would just be 1 less villager for the cowboys to kill

and i voted for her on day 1 to be sheriff because she wanted to be the sheriff and she was as good as any, yall were the ones that voted for the cowboy Cronin

bulletsponge · 10-13-2006, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

i tend to be friendlier with a woman playing. I have no proof of LSG, she could be a villager or cowboy for all i know. but there has been 0 evidence against her and yet some of yall want her to hang. that goes with my overall philosophy not to hang unless you have decent odds they are a badie that ive had in all my games ( exception made for chubby)

killing someone like LSG wont give us any info if she is a villager because nobody has vouched for her or offer any info about her. she would just be 1 less villager for the cowboys to kill

and i voted for her on day 1 to be sheriff because she wanted to be the sheriff and she was as good as any, yall were the ones that voted for the cowboy Cronin

dola

the more villagers that are alive the higher odds that one of us will spot or catch a cowboy doing something nafarious. the more we kill randomly with no proof the lower the odds of us getting a cowboy are. ive played every WW game like this, i hate lynching on the first day cause its 100% crap shoot when the odds are highest to kill a villager.

path12 · 10-13-2006, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Path, when you get around to reading this - is this an example of effectively questioning someone?

Can't say that it is, but Fouts and I were getting the same thing from him before he switched to you and BK, so welcome to the club!

Nothing personal, Spleen. I actually think you're going to get the hang of this pretty quickly....

On other matters:

Bullet: w00t!!! That's what I call a showdown!

Problem is that I can't vote for you for sheriff though. Your vice is far too well known and I think it's too risky if there is a way for the cowboys to exploit that.

Still waiting to hear from ntn, because as mentioned earlier Cronin being bad throws a wrench in the CoT. But I will enthusiastically:

Elect Chubby

Possibly a ploy, but fact is that the man bagged us a bad guy.

Fouts · 10-13-2006, 03:37 PM

for st.croning --->> HA HA!!!

spleen1015 · 10-13-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

Can't say that it is, but Fouts and I were getting the same thing from him before he switched to you and BK, so welcome to the club!

Nothing personal, Spleen. I actually think you're going to get the hang of this pretty quickly....

No worries. I still highly consider you a suspect.

path12 · 10-13-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, what I would like to do is start building a trust matrix - who trusts who and why?

1. Spleen - we have seen him demonstrate his role as Mortician. Accounts of deaths coincide with details known by people who have seen the bodies.
2. Path12 - ???
5. LoneStarGirl - PM link to Racer
6. Anxiety - visited by Lathum and NTN on Night 1, demonstrated skill as actor by appearing as Chief Rum
7. Lathum - visited Anxiety on Night 1
11. Swaggs - cast Mayor vote to save GE from lynch
12. Barkeep - ???
13. Chief Rum - demonstrated role as Tramp on Saldana Night 2.
14. SnDvls - ???
15. Saldana - ???
16. Racer - PM link to LoneStarGirl
17. Hoopsguy - visited by Deacon Night 3, value of this in dispute since Cronin was visited Night 2
18. Chubby - identified Cowboy Cronin
19. Bullet - shot Cowboy Cronin, visited by NTN Night 4
20. Glengoyne

Please fill in anything I'm missing for why people should be trusted, based upon information that has been posted in the thread. Since this is werewolf, I can't update this post to reflect it but this is part of my thinking when I evaluate people.

Questions/comments on your list. I forgot my notes at home today so I might ask some things that are already clear, but I don't have time to go back through the thread.

6. Couldn't Anxiety be the actor and a cowboy? How does the visit by Lathum when he appeared as CR clear him? Did Lathum vouch for him?

7. Ditto. I don't remember if Lathum gave us his role.

13. CR. I'm leaning towards him being villager based on his explanations last night, particularily the one where he couldn't have been out on the nights that there were kills on N1 & N3 since he never showed as tired and we know he was out N2.

Where is ntndeacon on your list? Do the people he's visited trust him enough to vouch for him as villager? If so, why are we talking about another sheriff?

Racer/LSG. That link is tenuous and might as well be ???'s for practical purposes.

List of people I have some level of trust for: Chubby, Swaggs, Bullet, Spleen.

path12 · 10-13-2006, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015

No worries. I still highly consider you a suspect.

Get in line.

spleen1015 · 10-13-2006, 03:51 PM

I'm likely gone until after the deadline. So, hopefully what happened last night doesn't happen again.

spleen1015 · 10-13-2006, 03:53 PM

One last question before I go...

hoops, how come you didn't change your vote to lynch Gram when he clearly showed he shouldn't be?

SnDvls · 10-13-2006, 03:56 PM

hoops- check chubby's post on his spying at night it clears a few people as well including me

hoopsguy · 10-13-2006, 03:59 PM

Spleen, I really don't know what I would have done if I was the deciding point on it - would have needed two other people to move their votes (he did end up with 12, right?).

But I think I would have stayed the course on the lynch because I had not heard from Bullet or Chubby, who I thought had roles that could be bodyguard. If those people had been around near the lynch and been able to participate in the conversation - Bullet came in with a vote at 8:01 but no prior comments despite me asking a question - then I would definitely have looked at it differently.

As it turns out, Chubby's role does sound like it offers some night protection, but only himself and he can witness a kill. Bullet - I still don't know what he does at night, but I'm not going to press someone I'm just about positive is a villager to tell us any more unless he wants to do so.

It is very rare for there to be games with multiple bodyguard roles - it is potentially a huge game-changing villager role.

SnDvls · 10-13-2006, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

There are five people with question marks by their name and yet i am the one in jail. At least Racer sort of vouched for me. And NTN will clear me whenever he gets home from work today. I suggest we put pressure on Saldana, Glen, Barkeep, SNDVLS, and path.

it's nice that hoops made this list, but just because someone has info by there name only means hoops remembered that info. Chubby had a long list of people he looked at that was missed.

hoopsguy · 10-13-2006, 04:03 PM

SnDlvs - if you can provide posts that is good.

What I did not do in that list was list stuff like who could not be killer on a given night. For example, Path could not have been the killer on Night 3 because Gramm (known good) was outside of his house acting in his bodyguard role. Unless the game includes mechanics to elude the bodyguard while executing a kill, Path did not kill that night.

Does Chubby's views clear you like the example above, or does it vouch for you as a good guy? If the latter, please provide a post # - I'm at work so I'm only getting small snippets of time to post.

SnDvls · 10-13-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

SnDlvs - if you can provide posts that is good.

What I did not do in that list was list stuff like who could not be killer on a given night. For example, Path could not have been the killer on Night 3 because Gramm (known good) was outside of his house acting in his bodyguard role. Unless the game includes mechanics to elude the bodyguard while executing a kill, Path did not kill that night.

Does Chubby's views clear you like the example above, or does it vouch for you as a good guy? If the latter, please provide a post # - I'm at work so I'm only getting small snippets of time to post.

#'s 1681 to 1691

Swaggs · 10-13-2006, 04:08 PM

Hey guys, quick check in from me.

My night action only included me seeing Chubby, who seemed to be dazed and did not notice or say anything to me, until we got very near to one another, and then he looked at me and walked away.

I am for taking our time over the weekend, as I have company in.

Swaggs · 10-13-2006, 04:12 PM

I don't have a problem with ntn's performance as sheriff, but we know 100% that Chubby and bullet are good guys, so I'd rather elect one of them.

Elect Chubby
No Lynch

Glengoyne · 10-13-2006, 04:24 PM

I don't think Chubby should be sheriff, as his role is too important. I'm not sure how sheriff night actions would interact with his Detective Night Actions. That is the ONLY thing I have against him as sheriff.

I think Path brings up a good point about Bullet's vice.

My Circle of trust consists of.
ME
Swaggs
Chubby
Bullet
GE(dead, and I was an early advocate of him)
Gram(dead, and I was a late arrival to trusting him)

ntndeacon · 10-13-2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

I think I'd rather stick with ntn as sheriff for the time being. I do think that his explanation last night of his abilities -- particularly that he cannot tell if someone is cowboy or villager -- disrupts the CoT and puts some people back into play.

But ntn, I do not understand not going for those who you are suspicious of. I actually read what you said about your ability to mean that you would have a chance to convert a cowboy to good if you met up with one.....

No I have a chance to heal a vice. I don't want to take that chance on people that migt be cowboys.

bulletsponge · 10-13-2006, 04:29 PM

i think chubby should be sheriff, its the best way to avoid him getting assassinated at night. he can still do his pinkerton duties and his sheriff ones. plus he has a gun and can maybe force a duel

ntndeacon · 10-13-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

St Cronin is of course claiming he was home all night which he won't be able to have anyone back up.

St Cronin - I'd loooooooooooove to know what you were talking to ntndeacon about.

I think it's highly unlikely it was the actor last night, not saying it isn't possible but the odds are sure as heck against it.

I will say. We were talking about his vice. His vice is power.

Glengoyne · 10-13-2006, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

i think chubby should be sheriff, its the best way to avoid him getting assassinated at night. he can still do his pinkerton duties and his sheriff ones. plus he has a gun and can maybe force a duel

OK, I think I can get on the Chubby bandwagon as long as we don't think his sheriff role won't interfere with his detective role.

st.cronin · 10-13-2006, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fouts

for st.croning --->> HA HA!!!

Hey, I outlived you, didn't I?

hoopsguy · 10-13-2006, 04:39 PM

UNVOTE ELECT SWAGGS
ELECT CHUBBY

As indicated earlier, now official.

Schedule - had not commented on it earlier but I would be fine with whatever people agree upon. However, tonight I will be satifying my off-line vice of gambling, as I play a little game I like to call Texas Hold-Em (or whatever else the suckers I'm playing with choose as their favorite way to lose money).

Glengoyne · 10-13-2006, 04:40 PM

I'm against lynching anyone tonight

No Lynch I'd like to release CR. I'm not as confident of LSG's innocence, and I don't think another night in the pokey is going to hurt her. I think the sentiment last night was that CR shouldn't be a lynch candidate, and I concur with that assessment. We want to release one of them, and arrest someone that is suspicious.

I'm still somewhat suspicious of Saldana.
I don't have any faith at all in the folks in NtN's unofficial Circle of Trust.

LoneStarGirl · 10-13-2006, 04:53 PM

NTN, do me a favor and tell everybody i dont have a gun so maybe i will be released.

ntndeacon · 10-13-2006, 04:55 PM

ok Now iam caught up.

As LSG has said She did not have a gun when she was arrested. However St.Cronin was not the only person to call for her to be arrested. Cronin did want her arrested 2 days ago, I do not remember if he did last night or not. One of the problems Ihave been having as sherriff, is that ihave not gotten ideas for Jailing from very many people. 2 nights ago it was 5 people. last night it wasn't many either. Regardless whether iam replaced or not..You Must help the sherriff out by giving JAilling lists.

My role is the role of the Priest. I can find out vices. On some small ocassions I can take away those vices. (A small chance to do so.)

hoopsguy · 10-13-2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

I don't have any faith at all in the folks in NtN's unofficial Circle of Trust

Don't blame you - I don't either and I was in that circle.

Lynch/Jaill - what is LSG going to say tomorrow that is different than today? If we collectively think she is innocent I don't see why we would not let her out. if we collectively think she is guilty, I don't see why we don't lynch.

The only argument I can see to leave her in without a lynch is that it takes a Sheriff action to release her so if we release both then we have no lynch option tomorrow. But if we leave one person in there each day and add one person each day we will continue to have this challenge until we lynch two or release two.

ntndeacon · 10-13-2006, 04:57 PM

Allso I don't know what it means but 2 nights ago St. Cronin wanted LSG and Saldana Jailed. That does not clear either but it does make it less likely that they are cowboys or cowgirls

LoneStarGirl · 10-13-2006, 05:00 PM

Thank you. Now I should all be in your official COT's

I dont care what you do with me, leave me, let me out... Just please dont lynch me. It would be a waste of a sherrif role. I believe we should all vote on who to jail and the sheriff (ntn or swaggs) should follow our advice.

SnDvls · 10-13-2006, 05:04 PM

no lynch in case I didn't do it earlier

I think both people in there are good, however I don't want both freed tonight because we would then waste a lynch chance. I also don't feel it is in the towns best interest to announce who they are or aren't freeing as it gives the cowboys a heads up. take what you give you as ideas and advice, do as you wish, but don't give anyone a heads up you are coming to jail them or freeing them either.

If I were sheriff I would free one of the two people in jail and jail a new person who hasn't been in there.
Also if I could do a showdown/shootout I would be doing it now to narrow down our choices. This two day cycle for jail hurts us in that we don't get a good or true lynch vote and the showdowns are the part that brings it back into balance. the two day cycle does however help us in that once someone has been in jail they begin to sing like a songbird.

SnDvls · 10-13-2006, 05:07 PM

dola - just had another thought.

and yes I know it's easier to say being that I'm not the one in there.
someone will have to "take one for the team" in order for us to get caught back up and be ahead of the cowboys.

LSG this might be what has to happen. I feel with almost 100% assurance you are good. We can and should free you, but for the greater good of the team and a total townfolk win we need to lynch you to get 2 new people in there. as you can see I voted no lynch, but we will always be behind if we can't get in 2 new people tonight.

it's a victory for the team vs. an individual victory for surviving.

bulletsponge · 10-13-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

NTN, do me a favor and tell everybody i dont have a gun so maybe i will be released.

Cronin didnt have a gun either and look what he did. but he did want you in jail for days so that kinda clears you

incase i didnt vote before
No Lynch

bulletsponge · 10-13-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Hey, I outlived you, didn't I?

dude dont make me shoot you again, this time in your groin!

bulletsponge · 10-13-2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnDvls

dola - just had another thought.

and yes I know it's easier to say being that I'm not the one in there.
someone will have to "take one for the team" in order for us to get caught back up and be ahead of the cowboys.

LSG this might be what has to happen. I feel with almost 100% assurance you are good. We can and should free you, but for the greater good of the team and a total townfolk win we need to lynch you to get 2 new people in there. as you can see I voted no lynch, but we will always be behind if we can't get in 2 new people tonight.

it's a victory for the team vs. an individual victory for surviving.

lol i couldnt help myself bet think of it, "kill the woman in order for me to live" what a gentleman

path12 · 10-13-2006, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnDvls

dola - just had another thought.

and yes I know it's easier to say being that I'm not the one in there.
someone will have to "take one for the team" in order for us to get caught back up and be ahead of the cowboys.

LSG this might be what has to happen. I feel with almost 100% assurance you are good. We can and should free you, but for the greater good of the team and a total townfolk win we need to lynch you to get 2 new people in there. as you can see I voted no lynch, but we will always be behind if we can't get in 2 new people tonight.

it's a victory for the team vs. an individual victory for surviving.

This is kinda of where I'm at, though I think she might be good I have no idea for sure and really no way to find out sans a seer. And frankly, with no role or power it could be a lot worse of a choice. No offense, LSG.

Lynch LSG

Glengoyne · 10-13-2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnDvls

dola - just had another thought.

and yes I know it's easier to say being that I'm not the one in there.
someone will have to "take one for the team" in order for us to get caught back up and be ahead of the cowboys.

LSG this might be what has to happen. I feel with almost 100% assurance you are good. We can and should free you, but for the greater good of the team and a total townfolk win we need to lynch you to get 2 new people in there. as you can see I voted no lynch, but we will always be behind if we can't get in 2 new people tonight.

it's a victory for the team vs. an individual victory for surviving.

I don't know about this. Killing a town person at dusk, when the cowboys are likely to kill another one of us tonight really doesn't make much sense. It gives the cowboys an advantage of numbers. Losing two villagers at a crack just doesn't seem like a good plan. If there are 3-5 cowboys amongst us, and we are down to 15? people, I don't like the idea of losing two townies tonight.

LoneStarGirl · 10-13-2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I don't know about this. Killing a town person at dusk, when the cowboys are likely to kill another one of us tonight really doesn't make much sense. It gives the cowboys an advantage of numbers. Losing two villagers at a crack just doesn't seem like a good plan. If there are 3-5 cowboys amongst us, and we are down to 15? people, I don't like the idea of losing two townies tonight.

Agreed. Doesn't anybody have the power to break somebody out of jail?

ntndeacon · 10-13-2006, 05:54 PM

Ok I have a question. Hoops has said that there has been a conversion. I think that is the common perception too. Hoops seems to think that Bribery is the way that one is converted. If these statements are true, which role could have manipulated money vices? Do we trust those people in those roles? It is at least worth examining them again.

10-13-2006, 04:08 PM	#1827
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Hey guys, quick check in from me. My night action only included me seeing Chubby, who seemed to be dazed and did not notice or say anything to me, until we got very near to one another, and then he looked at me and walked away. I am for taking our time over the weekend, as I have company in. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

10-13-2006, 04:12 PM	#1828
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I don't have a problem with ntn's performance as sheriff, but we know 100% that Chubby and bullet are good guys, so I'd rather elect one of them. Elect Chubby No Lynch __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

10-13-2006, 02:45 PM	#1802
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	So I'm curious to hear if ntn can learn anything from his conversation with cronin that would help us going forward. We know he didn't originally think cronin was a bad guy, but perhaps, after rereading the pm, there is insight there that was missed at first. Alan seems to be big on leaving clues in the writing, at least from my pms, and I'm hoping that perhaps there is something useful that would allow him to act more like a seer even if it's done subtly.

10-13-2006, 02:57 PM	#1804
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	OK, what I would like to do is start building a trust matrix - who trusts who and why? 1. Spleen - we have seen him demonstrate his role as Mortician. Accounts of deaths coincide with details known by people who have seen the bodies. 2. Path12 - ??? 5. LoneStarGirl - PM link to Racer 6. Anxiety - visited by Lathum and NTN on Night 1, demonstrated skill as actor by appearing as Chief Rum 7. Lathum - visited Anxiety on Night 1 11. Swaggs - cast Mayor vote to save GE from lynch 12. Barkeep - ??? 13. Chief Rum - demonstrated role as Tramp on Saldana Night 2. 14. SnDvls - ??? 15. Saldana - ??? 16. Racer - PM link to LoneStarGirl 17. Hoopsguy - visited by Deacon Night 3, value of this in dispute since Cronin was visited Night 2 18. Chubby - identified Cowboy Cronin 19. Bullet - shot Cowboy Cronin, visited by NTN Night 4 20. Glengoyne Please fill in anything I'm missing for why people should be trusted, based upon information that has been posted in the thread. Since this is werewolf, I can't update this post to reflect it but this is part of my thinking when I evaluate people.

10-13-2006, 03:00 PM	#1805
LoneStarGirl College Starter Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Little Rock, AR	[quote=Lathum;1273503]LSG, I'll answer both your questions. 2. This may sound cruel but you can't make an omlette without breaking some eggs. In order to jail 2 people we have to lynch someone, othewise the sheriff has to waste a night action on releasing someone. QUOTE] The reason I asked this is because I dont want yall thinking you HAVE to lynch me. I am an innocent villager that was jailed because nobody could vouch for me. but now that ntn can vouch, i should be released. Bullet is going to take down St. Cronin, so that should count as a kill tonight that we all wanted. Release me and lets put somebody EVERYBODY suspects instead of somebody two or three people do.

10-13-2006, 03:06 PM	#1807
bulletsponge Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: TX	agree Release LSG

10-13-2006, 03:08 PM	#1809
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Spleen, it isn't a matter of trying to make you feel bad about your play when you wrong. What I'm asking for is an actual conversation about how you see events that allows for give and take. I'm not at all interested in stopping you from advancing your thoughts on the game. In terms of Barkeep, I think you can see from my "trust matrix" that I don't know of any events that suggest his Bartender role is benevolent. But that is equally true for other people in the game such as Glengoyne, who I don't even have an inkling of a role. Or Racer, whose linkage with LSG is pretty difficult for anyone else to validate at a later point in the game.

10-13-2006, 03:09 PM	#1810
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	Man, this game is tough and I think I play it poorly. It is fun though!

10-13-2006, 03:10 PM	#1811
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Bullet, you have been a pretty firm (put that innuendo in just for you) supporter of LSG throughout the game. Is there an in-game reason for it or is it just a matter of hitting on the one female player? It is a serious question.

10-13-2006, 03:37 PM	#1816
Fouts College Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: California	for st.croning --->> HA HA!!!

10-13-2006, 03:51 PM	#1820
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	I'm likely gone until after the deadline. So, hopefully what happened last night doesn't happen again.

10-13-2006, 03:53 PM	#1821
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	One last question before I go... hoops, how come you didn't change your vote to lynch Gram when he clearly showed he shouldn't be?

10-13-2006, 03:56 PM	#1822
SnDvls Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001	hoops- check chubby's post on his spying at night it clears a few people as well including me

10-13-2006, 03:59 PM	#1823
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Spleen, I really don't know what I would have done if I was the deciding point on it - would have needed two other people to move their votes (he did end up with 12, right?). But I think I would have stayed the course on the lynch because I had not heard from Bullet or Chubby, who I thought had roles that could be bodyguard. If those people had been around near the lynch and been able to participate in the conversation - Bullet came in with a vote at 8:01 but no prior comments despite me asking a question - then I would definitely have looked at it differently. As it turns out, Chubby's role does sound like it offers some night protection, but only himself and he can witness a kill. Bullet - I still don't know what he does at night, but I'm not going to press someone I'm just about positive is a villager to tell us any more unless he wants to do so. It is very rare for there to be games with multiple bodyguard roles - it is potentially a huge game-changing villager role.

10-13-2006, 04:03 PM	#1825
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	SnDlvs - if you can provide posts that is good. What I did not do in that list was list stuff like who could not be killer on a given night. For example, Path could not have been the killer on Night 3 because Gramm (known good) was outside of his house acting in his bodyguard role. Unless the game includes mechanics to elude the bodyguard while executing a kill, Path did not kill that night. Does Chubby's views clear you like the example above, or does it vouch for you as a good guy? If the latter, please provide a post # - I'm at work so I'm only getting small snippets of time to post.

10-13-2006, 04:24 PM	#1829
Glengoyne Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Fresno, CA	I don't think Chubby should be sheriff, as his role is too important. I'm not sure how sheriff night actions would interact with his Detective Night Actions. That is the ONLY thing I have against him as sheriff. I think Path brings up a good point about Bullet's vice. My Circle of trust consists of. ME Swaggs Chubby Bullet GE(dead, and I was an early advocate of him) Gram(dead, and I was a late arrival to trusting him)

10-13-2006, 04:29 PM	#1831
bulletsponge Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: TX	i think chubby should be sheriff, its the best way to avoid him getting assassinated at night. he can still do his pinkerton duties and his sheriff ones. plus he has a gun and can maybe force a duel

10-13-2006, 04:39 PM	#1835
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	UNVOTE ELECT SWAGGS ELECT CHUBBY As indicated earlier, now official. Schedule - had not commented on it earlier but I would be fine with whatever people agree upon. However, tonight I will be satifying my off-line vice of gambling, as I play a little game I like to call Texas Hold-Em (or whatever else the suckers I'm playing with choose as their favorite way to lose money).

10-13-2006, 04:40 PM	#1836
Glengoyne Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Fresno, CA	I'm against lynching anyone tonight No Lynch I'd like to release CR. I'm not as confident of LSG's innocence, and I don't think another night in the pokey is going to hurt her. I think the sentiment last night was that CR shouldn't be a lynch candidate, and I concur with that assessment. We want to release one of them, and arrest someone that is suspicious. I'm still somewhat suspicious of Saldana. I don't have any faith at all in the folks in NtN's unofficial Circle of Trust.

10-13-2006, 04:53 PM	#1837
LoneStarGirl College Starter Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Little Rock, AR	NTN, do me a favor and tell everybody i dont have a gun so maybe i will be released.

10-13-2006, 04:55 PM	#1838
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	ok Now iam caught up. As LSG has said She did not have a gun when she was arrested. However St.Cronin was not the only person to call for her to be arrested. Cronin did want her arrested 2 days ago, I do not remember if he did last night or not. One of the problems Ihave been having as sherriff, is that ihave not gotten ideas for Jailing from very many people. 2 nights ago it was 5 people. last night it wasn't many either. Regardless whether iam replaced or not..You Must help the sherriff out by giving JAilling lists. My role is the role of the Priest. I can find out vices. On some small ocassions I can take away those vices. (A small chance to do so.)

10-13-2006, 04:57 PM	#1840
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	Allso I don't know what it means but 2 nights ago St. Cronin wanted LSG and Saldana Jailed. That does not clear either but it does make it less likely that they are cowboys or cowgirls

10-13-2006, 05:00 PM	#1841
LoneStarGirl College Starter Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Little Rock, AR	Thank you. Now I should all be in your official COT's I dont care what you do with me, leave me, let me out... Just please dont lynch me. It would be a waste of a sherrif role. I believe we should all vote on who to jail and the sheriff (ntn or swaggs) should follow our advice.

10-13-2006, 05:04 PM	#1842
SnDvls Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001	no lynch in case I didn't do it earlier I think both people in there are good, however I don't want both freed tonight because we would then waste a lynch chance. I also don't feel it is in the towns best interest to announce who they are or aren't freeing as it gives the cowboys a heads up. take what you give you as ideas and advice, do as you wish, but don't give anyone a heads up you are coming to jail them or freeing them either. If I were sheriff I would free one of the two people in jail and jail a new person who hasn't been in there. Also if I could do a showdown/shootout I would be doing it now to narrow down our choices. This two day cycle for jail hurts us in that we don't get a good or true lynch vote and the showdowns are the part that brings it back into balance. the two day cycle does however help us in that once someone has been in jail they begin to sing like a songbird.

10-13-2006, 05:07 PM	#1843
SnDvls Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001	dola - just had another thought. and yes I know it's easier to say being that I'm not the one in there. someone will have to "take one for the team" in order for us to get caught back up and be ahead of the cowboys. LSG this might be what has to happen. I feel with almost 100% assurance you are good. We can and should free you, but for the greater good of the team and a total townfolk win we need to lynch you to get 2 new people in there. as you can see I voted no lynch, but we will always be behind if we can't get in 2 new people tonight. it's a victory for the team vs. an individual victory for surviving.

10-13-2006, 05:54 PM	#1850
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	Ok I have a question. Hoops has said that there has been a conversion. I think that is the common perception too. Hoops seems to think that Bribery is the way that one is converted. If these statements are true, which role could have manipulated money vices? Do we trust those people in those roles? It is at least worth examining them again.

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