Werewolf 40,000: The Horus Heresy CHAOS DEFEATED; MUTANTS SURVIVE

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

By the way, when they kill me and I turn up like I have said the entire game. Go after Fouts and St.cronin. I think they are the ones pulling the strings. I'll check back in after 9 to see if I even need to bother scanning someone or not.

Last night was the first night I was not locked up. The idea that I am pulling strings is utter nonsense.

[st.cronin]

I've been right about so many things in this game (like who would die last night), and I feel like I'm probably right about this, but I also suspect I'll be the only one voting for Chief Rum today.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by BrianD

For what it is worth, I am pretty convinced that Grey was good when he visited me on night 2. From the description of the encounter, I assumed that he would have killed me had I been Chaos, but I suppose a conversion could be possible.

Alan, do you have any more detail on your attack?

Mustang, do you have anything to say?

I can't quote my PM. I'll give general timelines though if you are wanting to compare it to when you were attacked:

Ready to go visit Fouts
As leaving my room a hooded figure jumps through the door and sticks a knife into my shoulder
We tumble to the floor, I violently kick and toss until one of my kicks hits a weak spot on my opponent
It hurt him enough for him to cry out, he grabbed his knife and took off.
I stood up to go chase him, but the blood gushing from my shoulder is too rapid and I collapse and lose consciousness.

In the morning i wake up groggily and still in pain. The trauma of the night before left me with no recollection of my attacker.

Thats all I can say probably without violating PM copying rules.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Last night was the first night I was not locked up. The idea that I am pulling strings is utter nonsense.

You sure do seem to be tryin to get people to lynch known good guys locked up or not.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I've been right about so many things in this game (like who would die last night), and I feel like I'm probably right about this, but I also suspect I'll be the only one voting for Chief Rum today.

oh come on now....taking credit for predicting twothree would get killed last night is more ridiculous than taking credit for a day one vote on anxiety....every single person in the game, including twothree, knew he was gonna get killed last nigt.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by saldana

oh come on now....taking credit for predicting twothree would get killed last night is more ridiculous than taking credit for a day one vote on anxiety....every single person in the game, including twothree, knew he was gonna get killed last nigt.

More than one player was spinning scenarios where twothree was either bad or was going to be set up to look bad (by me, somehow). Your quote here is pure hyperbole.

Originally Posted by AlanT

You sure do seem to be tryin to get people to lynch known good guys locked up or not.

Chief Rum is known to be good by who? Not by me. What other known good players have I pushed to get lynched? ZERO.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I can't quote my PM. I'll give general timelines though if you are wanting to compare it to when you were attacked:

Ready to go visit Fouts
As leaving my room a hooded figure jumps through the door and sticks a knife into my shoulder
We tumble to the floor, I violently kick and toss until one of my kicks hits a weak spot on my opponent
It hurt him enough for him to cry out, he grabbed his knife and took off.
I stood up to go chase him, but the blood gushing from my shoulder is too rapid and I collapse and lose consciousness.

In the morning i wake up groggily and still in pain. The trauma of the night before left me with no recollection of my attacker.

Thats all I can say probably without violating PM copying rules.

A weak spot on your oppenent? Did we have anyone else get stabbed but not killed? Could this weak spot person be a mutant with some odd deformity somewhere? Would it make sense to have a mutant assassin?

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I doubt there are three bad guys working together. It's possible grey and Alan are working together - the story doesn't make any sense no matter how you put it together. I think this is probably like the Blade situation earlier where nobody understands what actually happened. I'll keep my vote on Chief Rum.

Note - grey never said Mustang was Chaos. He said whatever he was before, now he's good. I think Mustang is definitely good now, and probably always has been.

right my pm never said chaos anywhere in it.

My understand of last night is the Mustang went out to kill Alan T, somehow failed.

I found him AWAKE and shivering in his room. So I have every reason to believe he was out of his room.

It is possible Mustang is an assassin like bulletsponge was if he was always good.

However you want to look at it though. Mustang is now loyal to the Emperor.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

right my pm never said chaos anywhere in it.

My understand of last night is the Mustang went out to kill Alan T, somehow failed.

I found him AWAKE and shivering in his room. So I have every reason to believe he was out of his room.

It is possible Mustang is an assassin like bulletsponge was if he was always good.

However you want to look at it though. Mustang is now loyal to the Emperor.

so he was a mutant assassin, and has now seen the error of his ways...so you are saying you "unconverted" him?!...this should make for an intersting story when mustang shows up

[Fouts]

I think I will vote for either alan, saldana or grey. I need more info from guys on my trust list though.

I'd like to hear from swaggs, GE and CR. Mustang's version of things would help.

[st.cronin]

I bet Mustang tells the most confusing story possible. I'm staying away from all 4 of those guys with my vote, especially Mustang.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I bet Mustang tells the most confusing story possible. I'm staying away from all 4 of those guys with my vote, especially Mustang.

Do you think the chaos and mutants are hiding behind alan and saldana's crazy stories? I can't believe we have all these seers working for us. Just no way.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Do you think the chaos and mutants are hiding behind alan and saldana's crazy stories? I can't believe we have all these seers working for us. Just no way.

Somewhat agree, but I also don't think we have more than 2 chaos left. Try to construct a version of events with only two of those guys working together, and I'll buy it. I don't see it. I think one of them is possibly a mutant, or one of them is a "deluded seer" - getting bad readings. Which might help explain the Blade lynch.

Every game, though, it seems like the bad guys are the ones who hardly post anything at all. Look at Anxiety in this game.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Trying to scare me isn't going to stop me from trying to track down who the last wolves are. We're down to only 4-5 people the last 1-2 chaos people can be (excepting for possible conversions).

I honestly think our harder problem is going to be trying to find where the mutants are hiding before we eliminate the chaos.

Speaking just scientifically, the highest likelihood is the remaining chaos are one of the following:

Fouts
St.Cronin
Twothree
Mustang
Chiefrum
Swaggs
Kingfc22

And unless night death(s) hinder us, we'll know more about 2 of those 7 whether we can remove them or not after night actions.

Prophetic post. Hmmm, it seems we were hindered. Alan is unable to visit me, grey visited the same exact guy that attacked alan (says saldana). I am just amazed that all these things happened to coincide.

[BrianD]

So where are we looking tonight?

[Swaggs]

Just checking in. Lemme get caught up.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by BrianD

So where are we looking tonight?

I think we need to lynch the person most likely to be bad, and is connected to both groups. That way, if we are wrong, we can find alot of information out.

[Swaggs]

Wow. Lots of stuff going on.

I am considering doing a role reveal here. Where are we on the vote?

[BrianD]

I think we've got one vote for Chief Rum, and everyone else is confused. Sound about right?

[Fouts]

I have been thinking it over. One guy has been suspicious to me the whole way. He pushed to kill a guy who couldn't be killed at night. He pushed to kill the bodyguard with incorrect information. He avoided telling his story so he wouldn't be lynched. He told a story about seeing an attack (which is verified by both seer types). I just don't like his story, it doesn't add up.


vote saldana

[Swaggs]

Alright... my question now is do we think Mustang could be a mutant?

Alan was attacked by someone, saldana "saw" it happen, and mutants are loyal to the emperor.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Alright... my question now is do we think Mustang could be a mutant?

Alan was attacked by someone, saldana "saw" it happen, and mutants are loyal to the emperor.

Maybe? It sounds from Grey like Mustang wasn't loyal to the emperor, but now is. If mutants are loyal to the emperor, why wasn't Mustang loyal before?

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Alright... my question now is do we think Mustang could be a mutant?

Alan was attacked by someone, saldana "saw" it happen, and mutants are loyal to the emperor.

It is possible. Why would mustang attack alan?

[Fouts]

Here's the kicker. If the chaos killed twothree, and mutants are already loyal to the emperor (per alan's view of path), how can grey have converted mustang back to being loyal to the emperor?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Maybe? It sounds from Grey like Mustang wasn't loyal to the emperor, but now is. If mutants are loyal to the emperor, why wasn't Mustang loyal before?

No idea. I just thought that someone, earlier in the game, established that mutants were loyal to the emperor and that they just want equal rights or something (Did I imagine all of that? ).

Maybe he wasn't a mutant, but I guess the knife thing makes it sound like he isn't/wasn't chaos, since they are supposed to be like monsters. Having a knife makes it sound more like he is an assassin or something along those lines. I guess the knife could be related to his position, though.

I'm not sure where to go with this really--was thinking outloud. The fact that saldana did not vote for him, after indentifying him, should probably make me feel less suspicious about Mustang.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Chief Rum is known to be good by who? Not by me. What other known good players have I pushed to get lynched? ZERO.

So you admit I am good then?

Back to being serious here, I don't really know who to vote for. Right now, I believe Alan, and that's about it.

According to Alan, saldana and GE are loyal to the emperor. That means they aren't Chaos and clears them for me. But that doesn't mean their visions are real. I like the theory that someone is getting bad readings, and my guess is saldana. We already have evidence of the incomplete information he gets from the Blade situation. But would he be shown out and out false info?

Alan was attacked, that is clear. saldana says it is Mustang, because he saw it. IMO, I don't think there is any doubt that Mustang attacked Alan, because I don't believe saldana is getting false visions.

That brings us to grey's visit with Mustang. Several facts point to grey being good. Blade was good, and if grey were a Chaos, he would not have gotten past Blade's bodyguards to GE. GE was confirmed good by AlanT (or possibly converted by grey to good that night, with Blade unwittingly protecting a wolf--regardless he seems good now). grey vouched for bullet and even led an effort to save him--and bullet ended up good.

All this leads me to believe grey is good, too, and telling the truth. So Mustang is now good. He should still be punished for his attacks, but twothree's death and the fact the game is still going tells us there is still at least one more Chaos out there.

Because of all of the above, I cannot in good conscience vote for AlanT, saldana, grey or Mustang.

So that leaves me with my original suspects, st. cronin and Fouts.

st. cronin continues to try to play me up as a suspect, but the fact is, he has made far more shady plays in this game then I have. The only thing I have done that looks weird was the voting situation on Day Three, and that was to save a good villager. And he continues to make wolfish plays, like trying to play up his role as critical to survival of the game, boldly challenging seers to scan him, primping himself up for voting for Anxiety on Day 1, as if he knew that early.

He continues to be the most suspicious to me. So...

VOTE ST. CRONIN

May your soul feed the Emperor for eternity.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

No idea. I just thought that someone, earlier in the game, established that mutants were loyal to the emperor and that they just want equal rights or something (Did I imagine all of that? ).

Maybe he wasn't a mutant, but I guess the knife thing makes it sound like he isn't/wasn't chaos, since they are supposed to be like monsters. Having a knife makes it sound more like he is an assassin or something along those lines. I guess the knife could be related to his position, though.

I'm not sure where to go with this really--was thinking outloud. The fact that saldana did not vote for him, after indentifying him, should probably make me feel less suspicious about Mustang.

Im pretty sure Saldana did vote for him. I don't think it will matter if you do a role reveal or not, people all know everything and refuse to listen to role reveals. All it will do is likely put you under fire instead.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Here's the kicker. If the chaos killed twothree, and mutants are already loyal to the emperor (per alan's view of path), how can grey have converted mustang back to being loyal to the emperor?

He was somehow able to remove the Chaos taint? Do the Chaos have a taint, or are they completely non-human? The night is pretty long, seems reasonable that multiple events could happen.

I really don't get why Mustang would attack Alan though. I suppose if Mustang is a Chaos assassin, he could think Alan is a mutant and tried to kill him since we'd probably assume Saldana is a muntant and kill him too. If Mustang is a mutant assassin, he probably thought Alan was Chaos. Or maybe Mustang's role is to perform failed assassination attempts to keep us running in circles.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Or maybe Mustang's role is to perform failed assassination attempts to keep us running in circles.

lol...now that would be a crappy role to play out.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by BrianD

He was somehow able to remove the Chaos taint? Do the Chaos have a taint, or are they completely non-human? The night is pretty long, seems reasonable that multiple events could happen.

I really don't get why Mustang would attack Alan though. I suppose if Mustang is a Chaos assassin, he could think Alan is a mutant and tried to kill him since we'd probably assume Saldana is a muntant and kill him too. If Mustang is a mutant assassin, he probably thought Alan was Chaos. Or maybe Mustang's role is to perform failed assassination attempts to keep us running in circles.

So you are thinking that the chaos can do multiple kill actions per night? I don't buy it.

[Greyroofoo]

If Mustang was chaos (and right now I tend to believe he was), assassinating Alan T makes perfect sense since Alan can detect chaos. The other chaos then proceeded to kill twothree. Then we have two of three seers eliminated.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So you admit I am good then?

Back to being serious here, I don't really know who to vote for. Right now, I believe Alan, and that's about it.

According to Alan, saldana and GE are loyal to the emperor. That means they aren't Chaos and clears them for me. But that doesn't mean their visions are real. I like the theory that someone is getting bad readings, and my guess is saldana. We already have evidence of the incomplete information he gets from the Blade situation. But would he be shown out and out false info?

Alan was attacked, that is clear. saldana says it is Mustang, because he saw it. IMO, I don't think there is any doubt that Mustang attacked Alan, because I don't believe saldana is getting false visions.

That brings us to grey's visit with Mustang. Several facts point to grey being good. Blade was good, and if grey were a Chaos, he would not have gotten past Blade's bodyguards to GE. GE was confirmed good by AlanT (or possibly converted by grey to good that night, with Blade unwittingly protecting a wolf--regardless he seems good now). grey vouched for bullet and even led an effort to save him--and bullet ended up good.

All this leads me to believe grey is good, too, and telling the truth. So Mustang is now good. He should still be punished for his attacks, but twothree's death and the fact the game is still going tells us there is still at least one more Chaos out there.

Because of all of the above, I cannot in good conscience vote for AlanT, saldana, grey or Mustang.

So that leaves me with my original suspects, st. cronin and Fouts.

st. cronin continues to try to play me up as a suspect, but the fact is, he has made far more shady plays in this game then I have. The only thing I have done that looks weird was the voting situation on Day Three, and that was to save a good villager. And he continues to make wolfish plays, like trying to play up his role as critical to survival of the game, boldly challenging seers to scan him, primping himself up for voting for Anxiety on Day 1, as if he knew that early.

He continues to be the most suspicious to me. So...

VOTE ST. CRONIN

May your soul feed the Emperor for eternity.

What you are saying here is that you think everyone involved in last night's action to be good. And you suspect two people who have been involved in nothing at night. I sincerely hope I am a wolf in the next game. I can make up anything and you will believe it all.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

No idea. I just thought that someone, earlier in the game, established that mutants were loyal to the emperor and that they just want equal rights or something (Did I imagine all of that? ).

I think it's in the game description that way, and path turned out to be a mutant after being scanned as loyal to the emperor by AlanT, so I think mutants are on the side of good for the most part. They want to kill Chaos as much as we do. But we want to kill Chaos AND find the mutants at the same time for the ultimate victory.

Point being, for the most part, mutants will likely appear to be good to us.

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by Fouts

So you are thinking that the chaos can do multiple kill actions per night? I don't buy it.

why can't a chaos person have an assassination role?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Fouts

So you are thinking that the chaos can do multiple kill actions per night? I don't buy it.

So now you are calling BrianD a liar too?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I think it's in the game description that way, and path turned out to be a mutant after being scanned as loyal to the emperor by AlanT, so I think mutants are on the side of good for the most part. They want to kill Chaos as much as we do. But we want to kill Chaos AND find the mutants at the same time for the ultimate victory.

Point being, for the most part, mutants will likely appear to be good to us.

Mutants want to kill chaos more than we do even. They win the instant all chaos are eliminated

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

why can't a chaos person have an assassination role?

Why wait until Night 4 to use it, though?

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

why can't a chaos person have an assassination role?

Where he can attempt more than one kill per game? I can't buy that.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Fouts

What you are saying here is that you think everyone involved in last night's action to be good. And you suspect two people who have been involved in nothing at night. I sincerely hope I am a wolf in the next game. I can make up anything and you will believe it all.

No, what I am saying is that there is a logical case to establish some level of goodness (or goodness "now") in all of those players. I have even laid that case out, with the logical conclusions, based on what facts we have. There may be mutants in that group, but I don't think they are Chaos (or aren't anymore).

I do not want to waste my vote on killing good villagers, so I am going after the ones I suspect of being wolves. And why the attack on me, Fouts, when St. Cronin essentially did the same thing before voting for me? I also have not done anything at night, nor was I at all involved in last night's actions, and yet you question what I have fully laid out, and you don't even bother to look closely at st. cronin who has spent a lot of time trumpeting my name, but has laid out very little evidence for why I should be a wolf?

I guess if I will believe anything you say the next game, I can also count on you establishing your own beliefs very early on, and never again questioning them, stubbornly following them to the doom of us all, regardless of what evidence comes up.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Alan T

So now you are calling BrianD a liar too?

Nice one. Keep stirring the pot. I asked him if he was thinking that way, and I don't think it is probable. I am not calling him a liar, because he never said that was the way it is.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Mutants want to kill chaos more than we do even. They win the instant all chaos are eliminated

Yup, you're right on there.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

No, what I am saying is that there is a logical case to establish some level of goodness (or goodness "now") in all of those players. I have even laid that case out, with the logical conclusions, based on what facts we have. There may be mutants in that group, but I don't think they are Chaos (or aren't anymore).

I do not want to waste my vote on killing good villagers, so I am going after the ones I suspect of being wolves. And why the attack on me, Fouts, when St. Cronin essentially did the same thing before voting for me? I also have not done anything at night, nor was I at all involved in last night's actions, and yet you question what I have fully laid out, and you don't even bother to look closely at st. cronin who has spent a lot of time trumpeting my name, but has laid out very little evidence for why I should be a wolf?

I guess if I will believe anything you say the next game, I can also count on you establishing your own beliefs very early on, and never again questioning them, stubbornly following them to the doom of us all, regardless of what evidence comes up.

Why ignore this evidence? - Saldana pushed for realdeals death, and blades death.

However, you are willing to pin bullets death on me.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Nice one. Keep stirring the pot. I asked him if he was thinking that way, and I don't think it is probable. I am not calling him a liar, because he never said that was the way it is.

Maybe I misread it then. Im pretty sure he was attacked one night when another killing occurred. And honestly why do I care what you think about me anymore. Just do me a favor and duke me.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

No idea. I just thought that someone, earlier in the game, established that mutants were loyal to the emperor and that they just want equal rights or something (Did I imagine all of that? ).

Maybe he wasn't a mutant, but I guess the knife thing makes it sound like he isn't/wasn't chaos, since they are supposed to be like monsters. Having a knife makes it sound more like he is an assassin or something along those lines. I guess the knife could be related to his position, though.

I'm not sure where to go with this really--was thinking outloud. The fact that saldana did not vote for him, after indentifying him, should probably make me feel less suspicious about Mustang.

i voted for him in my first post of the day, before i revealed.

[Fouts]

Oh and I don't suspect st. cronin because he hasn't been involved in any of the shady things happening. I don't trust people moving around at night.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Why ignore this evidence? - Saldana pushed for realdeals death, and blades death.

However, you are willing to pin bullets death on me.

He pushed for realdeal on Day 1. You knwo the value of Day 1 votes, and realdeal made an odd move, too. I'm not going to hang a guy because he made a bad call there.

And he explained the issue with Blade. Also an understandable error, and part of what we has to take into consideration with saldana's visions (not all info may have been presented to him).

On top of that, AlanT, who has come out good in this game and was apparently attacked by Chaos, has confirmed saldana's loyalty to the emperor.

I'm not going to hang a guy for a couple bad judgment calls.

It's not a matter of "willing" with bullet. You did kill him. And then you said you didn't regret it, even after he came out as good. Don't try and make it out like it's a matter of "public opinion". You as much slammed bullet's head down on the block and gave the executioner his order.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Oh and I don't suspect st. cronin because he hasn't been involved in any of the shady things happening. I don't trust people moving around at night.

i am more confident than ever that you are a chaos...at this point, i am asking you to kill me so everyone can see i am a good guy, then mustang followed by you will be the lynches the next two nights....but i am willing to wager you dont have the stones to duke me, becasue you know it will play out exactly as i said

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by saldana

i voted for him in my first post of the day, before i revealed.

What do you think after hearing that Grey said he was now loyal to the emperor? Are you holding your vote on him?

To me, if they choices are between you, Chief Rum, st. cronin, and Mustang, I think the information you provided, and the fact that Alan cleared you earlier, makes me lean towards voting for Mustang.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by saldana

i am more confident than ever that you are a chaos...at this point, i am asking you to kill me so everyone can see i am a good guy, then mustang followed by you will be the lynches the next two nights....but i am willing to wager you dont have the stones to duke me, becasue you know it will play out exactly as i said

I honestly bet he's just bluffing about having a duke power. I think all he has is a tiebreaker and we have seen plenty of games with bad guy tiebreakers before. (I was one in one game). He's full of BS.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by saldana

i am more confident than ever that you are a chaos...at this point, i am asking you to kill me so everyone can see i am a good guy, then mustang followed by you will be the lynches the next two nights....but i am willing to wager you dont have the stones to duke me, becasue you know it will play out exactly as i said

LOL. You think I am the chaos duke? Wow, then I am one great player to be accusing everyone and their brother and still not be lynched. If you really wanted to, you could get all your brothers in arms to vote for me and the people here will lynch me.