The OFFICIAL 2008-09 NHL Thread

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Thanks, SR!

I am shocked Helm is #1 mainly because Kindl always gets so much praise. I do agree with that list though as Helm is probably going to be on the 4th line come playoff time, and Ericcson might just be our 7th defensemen from here on out (assuming Lilja stays #6 when back)

The top 4 will all be in the NHL within 2 years, though I suspect Howard gets first crack at the backup job next year. His time in the A is a mixed bag but he has the talent.

Brendan Smith is a monster offensive defensemen but he's hurt all the fucking time. If he can stay healthy he is a perfect fit for the puck control game.

All in all its a solid list.

And that's where sometimes I am confused on the rankings. I don't think many would disagree Kindl has loads more potential than Helm. Helm is a nice player, but he's going to top out on the 3rd line.

If the object is to pick out the sure-fire NHLers, no doubt Helm is the best of the bunch. But if that's the case, again, I point to the McCollum/Howard rankings. Howard at least has a few NHL starts, where McCollum is probably 4 years away.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

And that's where sometimes I am confused on the rankings. I don't think many would disagree Kindl has loads more potential than Helm. Helm is a nice player, but he's going to top out on the 3rd line.

If the object is to pick out the sure-fire NHLers, no doubt Helm is the best of the bunch. But if that's the case, again, I point to the McCollum/Howard rankings. Howard at least has a few NHL starts, where McCollum is probably 4 years away.

Agreed. Helm is a young Draper. He can be a fixture for 10 years anchoring the 3rd line and the PK and add 20 goals occasionally. I'd go as far as to say he and Abdelkader are Draper/Maltby 2.0. That said, Kindal's skillset is that of a top 4 D which is far more valuable. The whole thing seems to be a mix and match of potential vs actual talent.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I didn't realize Cooke was brought in to be a 30 goal winger. Cooke-Staal-Kennedy has been the Pens best like from game 1 - to this point.

And we had "him" here. His name is Ryan Malone. Neither is worth $4M.

And what happened to Coburn? In the game vs Pittsburgh and the few other Flyers game I've watched, he's been pretty below avg.

But they did put Cooke up with Crosby for a few games, okay maybe he should've made fun of someone else they brought in to score 30...like Fedetanko or Satan...but he can't make fun of Satan since he's in the AHL.

Coburn has taken a step back this year. He has been better lately, I'm not sure if it is because he is playing with the human turnover machine, Matt Carle, or if he took a step back.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

Sean, you've created a not-very-funny monster

There are over 50 fake NHL twitter accounts now.

I can't help by feel partially responsible.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

There are over 50 fake NHL twitter accounts now.

I can't help by feel partially responsible.

I had a very hard time not creating a fake Horcoff account, but really, the material for that one would be entirely too easy so I left well enough alone.

And just to clarify, if there is a fake one for him already, it's not me and I haven't looked at it thus far.

I do still enjoy the Burke feed.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

But they did put Cooke up with Crosby for a few games, okay maybe he should've made fun of someone else they brought in to score 30...like Fedetanko or Satan...but he can't make fun of Satan since he's in the AHL.

Coburn has taken a step back this year. He has been better lately, I'm not sure if it is because he is playing with the human turnover machine, Matt Carle, or if he took a step back.

Actually, in the games he played up there, he played well. He had something like 5 of his goals in those 8 games, including 2 vs Anaheim.

He could have said it to Fedotenko, but he saw what Feds did to Colby and wanted to part of him. Plus, Feds didn't want to break his hand on Hartnell's hair.

[Dr. Sak]

The Flyers aren't as bad as you might think...

http://community.post-gazette.com/bl...e-3-23-09.aspx

As much as we rail against the Flyers in this forum and make jokes about their character and label them "puppy drowners," it is easy to forget these are just hockey players sometimes. Chances are, if they didn't wear orange and black or have a 267 area code, you wouldn't "hate" them. Rick Tocchet is the perfect example of that. He was a scoring winger for the Flyers who would drop the gloves without any hesitation. He was a natural for that market.

Then he came to Pittsburgh where he was equally beloved.

That brings us to Scott Hartnell, the Flyers fuzzy crash test dummy of a power forward. Since being acquired from Nashville, he's become the consummate Flyer. He combines physicality and scoring in a blend that just fits in well with the Flyers, just like Rick Toccet did. His play and unique appearance makes him an easy target for Penguins fans such as EN reader Steven Mazefsky who gained a little perspective on Hartnell yesterday:

"I know, I know... As a Western Pennsylvania hockey fan you are born and bred to HATE the Flyers. And I sure have. Years of being beaten by them have made the success the past couple of years extra sweet. During last year's playoffs I had this special jersey made so that I could attempt to irritate the subject of my aggravation as much as possible from my vantage point right next to the visitors' tunnel. Last year, the mission was accomplished! As I hung this jersey over the side of the rail and uttered some unmentionables. Scott Hartnell and a few others were happy to respond in kind, and worse! I hate to admit it at my age, that I found this fun, but frankly... I DID!!

This year, for whatever reason, this player decided that the jersey was funny. The ushers would tell me how he laughed when he saw it, and he would actually wave in the tunnel between periods of the home game, and the banter back and forth was... well, I hate to admit... FRIENDLY... Mike Richards even threw my daughter a puck as they came off the ice, despite the fact that she was with me before the last game. I decided that the banter with the jersey alone had gotten boring, so I went out to get an orange wig to match Hartnell's rather odd haircut/color and made a sign to up the ante. I was greeted today with friendly banter, laughter and again Mike Richards tossed a puck to my daughter as they came off the ice. A few minutes later, one of the Flyers trainers told me that Scott would love to autograph the jersey if I would like that. I told him that this would be great, but I did not really believe it, as players NEVER sign autographs there. Never.

With a couple minutes left in the game, they asked for my jersey to be sent down into the locker room, and despite my cynical nature, I took it off, and it disappeared into the tunnel. As the game ended, and he went through the tunnel, Scott Hartnell handed me the stick he used in the game, and a minute later the trainer brought out the jersey that he signed as the jersey read, 'To my biggest fan, your bud... Scott Fartsmell.'

Yes, he actually signed it, 'Fartsmell!'

I have to tell you that the fact that he took the ribbing in stride, joked back, and then took the time to sign this jersey in the manner that he did, left a very lasting impression. I will not say it too loudly here, but WHAT A CLASS ACT AND GOOD SPORT! The Flyers, more than other visiting team go out of their way to take care of their fans in our arena, but to go out of their way to interact with me, given my attire and loyalties was well above the call of duty to say the least. All three trainers and equipment managers for that team were just as fun to joke around with! Best wishes, and good luck Flyers, except when you play us. And THANKS for a fun time."

[Suburban Rhythm]

I think in general, hockey has alot of good guys, probably more than any other sport.

Sidney Crosby: Is It Too Easy to Hate the Kid? | Bleacher Report

As I was watching the Rangers/Penguins game, an interesting story came up.
Without any fanfare or great production, Sidney Crosby arranged to get equipment for 800 kids in the Pittsburgh area who couldn't afford the equipment to play hockey.

Pittsburgh Penguins - Community: Little Penguins Learn to Play Hockey Program

He did kill 800 kids puppies afterwards though. He's not perfect.

[Logan]

Surely lots of elbow and knee pads for the falls.

[Maple Leafs]

Speaking of Crosby, anyone catch the story about the altercation between him and Marc Savard?

Apparently they exchanged words, Crosby asked if Savard wanted to go, and Savard told him to go take off his visor. So Crosby goes to the bench and has the equipment manager remove the visor. Next shift he challenges Savard, who backs down.

Probably not exactly the way it happened, but I like the story so much I'm just going to accept it as 100% true.

Bruins player wimps out after Crosby removes visor for fight - Puck Daddy - NHL - Yahoo! Sports

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Speaking of Crosby, anyone catch the story about the altercation between him and Marc Savard?

Apparently they exchanged words, Crosby asked if Savard wanted to go, and Savard told him to go take off his visor. So Crosby goes to the bench and has the equipment manager remove the visor. Next shift he challenges Savard, who backs down.

Probably not exactly the way it happened, but I like the story so much I'm just going to accept it as 100% true.

Bruins player wimps out after Crosby removes visor for fight - Puck Daddy - NHL - Yahoo! Sports

Yeah, I read about that a few days ago. It's a great story and I totally agree, it's worth believing 100%.

Perhaps Marc Savard's status as Don Cherry's new BFF gave him a big head or something, thought he was all tough despite being quite wee.

[samifan24]

While I don't think the Crosby story is true, I do think Savard is a, shall we say, whiny player and I say that even though he's the #1 center on my favorite team. I get the impression that Savard complains a lot on the ice. He's much more of a team player now than he ever was earlier in his career but I still think he acts the same way sometimes.

[Draft Dodger]

why wasn't Crosby wearing a visor then?

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

why wasn't Crosby wearing a visor then?

I have no idea. It could have been because he wanted to fight Savard or it could have been for an equipment problem. The whole story sounds like too much of a tall tale to me. As I said, I don't doubt some of the rumors I've heard about Savard's on-ice presence and reputation but it seems that people are making a lot out of this story and it almost seems too interesting to be true.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Can you imagine if Crosby hadn't done it?

While it happening is all conjecture as to the truth, had Sid left it on, places like HF would have 400 threads on Crosby being afraid of Savard.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Logan

2. I think the organization thinks more highly of Sauer, unless his play has dropped off recently.

NHL debut tonight.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Can you imagine if Crosby hadn't done it?

While it happening is all conjecture as to the truth, had Sid left it on, places like HF would have 400 threads on Crosby being afraid of Savard.

Agreed. The reality is probably somewhere in between. I liked the story earlier in this thread about Crosby donating all that equipment to the Pittsburgh kids so they could learn hockey. The reality of the person behind the jersey number and the lights is always far different than the caricature we have of the player on the ice.

[Maple Leafs]

Summary of tonight's Caps/Leafs game:

- Boring as hell for 59 minutes, with Leafs holding 2-1 lead
- Caps score in the final minute to tie it, on a controversial goal that could have been called back due to interference
- Martin Gerber shoots the puck at the referee and gets ejected
- Curtis Joseph comes in cold and robs Ovechkin on a one-timer in the dying seconds
- Cujo makes eight more saves in OT, with crowd going crazy
- Leafs win a shootout when Cujo stops Ovechkin's deke on the final shot
- Cujo named first star for six minutes of work.

One of those great turn-back-the-clock moments.

[MizzouRah]

Good for Cujo.. still one of my favorite former Blues player.

[Dr. Sak]

Talk about not being able to hit water if he fell out of a boat...Matt Cooke missed TWO wide open nets last night.

[Draft Dodger]

the Avs have lost their last two home games by a combined score of 15-3.

[bhlloy]

That Avs team I saw against the Ducks last night was easily the worst team I have personally seen in the NHL since the expansion teams in the 90's. Having a drop off after injuries is one thing, but zero effort and pride is another. On Perry's second goal, they let him walk 10 feet towards the net, put a slapshot on goal and Clark (who is supposed to be one of the veterans) actually got out of the way of the shot - top corner. He wouldn't have a job tomorrow if I was running the team. Even worse than the Kings last couple of years.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Talk about not being able to hit water if he fell out of a boat...Matt Cooke missed TWO wide open nets last night.

I was there...maybe Hartnell was right in critcizing Cooke afterall.

Although, he did play most of the 2nd half of the game with Malkin and Sykora on the 2nd line.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Should be good game at 1 today- Rangers/Pens

Two teams that started the year sitting back and waiting to create turnovers to transition. Now, both teams are forcing the turnovers in the opposition's end and playing up and down hockey.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Should be good game at 1 today- Rangers/Pens

Two teams that started the year sitting back and waiting to create turnovers to transition. Now, both teams are forcing the turnovers in the opposition's end and playing up and down hockey.

Well that was interesting...Orr gets a 5 minute major for interference and a game misconduct because Eaton fell down as Orr was about to hit him.

And then an almost as bad call as Kunitz gets called for hooking when Staal stepped on his stick.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

That Avs team I saw against the Ducks last night was easily the worst team I have personally seen in the NHL since the expansion teams in the 90's. Having a drop off after injuries is one thing, but zero effort and pride is another. On Perry's second goal, they let him walk 10 feet towards the net, put a slapshot on goal and Clark (who is supposed to be one of the veterans) actually got out of the way of the shot - top corner. He wouldn't have a job tomorrow if I was running the team. Even worse than the Kings last couple of years.

welcome to my hell.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Logan

Well that was interesting...Orr gets a 5 minute major for interference and a game misconduct because Eaton fell down as Orr was about to hit him.

Ah ha, I thought they only gave majors for interference in the AHL. Seriously though, the ref gave a major for interference at the last AHL game I attended and I wondered "who gives a major for interference?" I guess now we know.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Logan

Well that was interesting...Orr gets a 5 minute major for interference and a game misconduct because Eaton fell down as Orr was about to hit him.

And then an almost as bad call as Kunitz gets called for hooking when Staal stepped on his stick.

Coincidence the Kunitz call was, what, 6 seconds after the Orr call?

That was definitely a case of reading the players jersey. Dubinsky, Callahan or Sjostrom makes that hit, it's 2. It was still from behind, falling or not. Add blood + Orr = 5.

At least we can beat Lundy now. Early in the year, we couldn't touch him.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

It was still from behind, falling or not. Add blood + Orr = 5.

I don't see how the hell that was a hit from behind.

[bhlloy]

It's not a hit from behind and it's typical NHL justice. I'm pretty sure Dubinsky, Callahan or Sjostrom makes that hit, it's 0, but that's a matter of opinion. Perfectly clean hit until Eaton decides to bite the glass at the last minute (yes he fell, it's not his fault ). But it's a guy like Colton Orr who we'd rather not be in the league at all, so give him 15.

The number of 10 minute misconducts I've seen this season given to guys that like to fight once in a while for nothing makes me sick. I don't know why I bitch about it any more or expect anything different. Ever since Jagr got a pat on the back for slashing somebody in the head while McSorley got crucified and ran out of the league (a guy who ironically made all of Gretzky's records possible in that era) I've wanted to just say to hell with Bettman's NHL, but I still can't ditch it. Maybe in 5 years when they finally elimate most of the big hitting and standing up for your teammates is gone I'll be able to spend my money elsewhere.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Logan

I don't see how the hell that was a hit from behind.

The impact of the hit is to Eaton's back. You can argue Eaton turned away, and I wouldn't say you are wrong. But the hit was to the back.

Originally Posted by bhlloy

It's not a hit from behind and it's typical NHL justice. I'm pretty sure Dubinsky, Callahan or Sjostrom makes that hit, it's 0, but that's a matter of opinion. Perfectly clean hit until Eaton decides to bite the glass at the last minute (yes he fell, it's not his fault ). But it's a guy like Colton Orr who we'd rather not be in the league at all, so give him 15.

Here, I can't agree. That is, flat out, interference. Period. Eaton never played the puck, and Orr's intention was to not play the puck. That is the textbook definition of interference.

That's 2 min. Should be 2 on Orr, Dubinsky, Callahan or Sjostrom. I think it's just as bad that it probably would have been 0 with one of those guys, or in the other direction, Staal, Dupuis, or Kennedy. That should get called everytime. Otherwise, chip every guy who enters your zone, every single time, and we can have 2001 all over again.

[samifan24]

I have to say I might have given Orr two minutes for that play but no way should he have been given a major. My guess is that the refs saw the blood and the angle and assumed Orr nailed Eaton with his elbow. It was unfortunate timing for Orr.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Logan

NHL debut tonight.

What's the issue with Sauer and Mara? They played 1:59 and 5:14 respectively today. Is that Tortorella being Tortorella?

Especially when you take into account the 3 min PP after the Orr and Kunitz calls, when you rotate only 4 D, any coincidence they were dragging when Crosby scored what would be the winner.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

The impact of the hit is to Eaton's back. You can argue Eaton turned away, and I wouldn't say you are wrong. But the hit was to the back.

If by back you mean upper right shoulder, just behind the curve from the side of his upper arm, okay, yeah, that was a hit to the back.

Here, I can't agree. That is, flat out, interference. Period. Eaton never played the puck, and Orr's intention was to not play the puck. That is the textbook definition of interference.

That's 2 min. Should be 2 on Orr, Dubinsky, Callahan or Sjostrom. I think it's just as bad that it probably would have been 0 with one of those guys, or in the other direction, Staal, Dupuis, or Kennedy. That should get called everytime. Otherwise, chip every guy who enters your zone, every single time, and we can have 2001 all over again.

He wasn't arguing it wasn't interference. He was arguing it was a clean hit. As far as hits purely as hits go, that was pretty clean, and only looked bad because Eaton was at a bad balance point when Orr reached him.

Orr should definitely get two minutes for interference. The major and game misconduct? Who you kidding? That call was bullshit.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

He wasn't arguing it wasn't interference. He was arguing it was a clean hit. As far as hits purely as hits go, that was pretty clean, and only looked bad because Eaton was at a bad balance point when Orr reached him.

Orr should definitely get two minutes for interference. The major and game misconduct? Who you kidding? That call was bullshit.

I think he was arguing the interference call, since he says it should have been 0, not 2.

NHL.com - Rules: Official Rules - Rule 56: Interference

56.4 Major Penalty - The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a major penalty, based on the degree of violence, to a player or goalkeeper guilty of interfering with an opponent (see 56.5).
56.5 Game Misconduct Penalty – When a major penalty is imposed under this rule for a foul resulting in an injury of an opponent, a game misconduct shall be imposed.

You can argue the point on the major. But when the major was called, the miscoduct must be called because there was an injury.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Dola

Rough weekend for officials all around. Eric Furlatt waves off two goals for the Flames, seconds apart, on the PP.

The Flames scored again, minutes later, to go up 3-2, which turns out to be the winning goal.

Both appeared to be the right call, but he would have had a rough time getting out of Calgary had the Flames lost.

[gstelmack]

Nice to see the Hurricanes charging into the playoffs rather than rolling over like they did the last few years. Looks like Cole brought some intensity back to this club that they've been missing.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

What's the issue with Sauer and Mara? They played 1:59 and 5:14 respectively today. Is that Tortorella being Tortorella?

Especially when you take into account the 3 min PP after the Orr and Kunitz calls, when you rotate only 4 D, any coincidence they were dragging when Crosby scored what would be the winner.

I think it was because Mara made a bad play in the neutral zone while Sauer was out of position on Talbot's goal. Seemed to just be a very short leash. Staal ended up with almost 30 mins of ice time in the game that followed the worst of his career.

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I think he was arguing the interference call, since he says it should have been 0, not 2.

When I saw it the first few times it looked to me that he was already falling, his left skate got caught on the boards, which started sending him down (I still kinda think that's what happened but I'll let it slide). But yes, Orr finished the check and attempting it in the first place, even without him maybe falling first, should have been interference.

[Fidatelo]

Couple things:

1) Orr's hit was interference, no more, no less. Should have been two minutes, and Eaton needs to learn to stay on his feet.

2) Unless the NHL has gone back to the rule from the late '90's (and I don't believe they have, but I've been wrong before), the first disallowed Calgary goal should have been allowed.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I think he was arguing the interference call, since he says it should have been 0, not 2.

Actually, no. He was suggesting if a soft player made the hit, the refs would not have been inclined to call it (an arguable point). He never argued whether the move in and of itself was interference, just pointed out that official justice in the NHL is sometimes determined by the name on the back.

NHL.com - Rules: Official Rules - Rule 56: Interference



You can argue the point on the major. But when the major was called, the miscoduct must be called because there was an injury.

Why did you even bring this up? So what. I am obviously arguing against the major, which was ridiculous. Way to avoid the issue (like Crosby in a fight).

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Actually, no. He was suggesting if a soft player made the hit, the refs would not have been inclined to call it (an arguable point). He never argued whether the move in and of itself was interference, just pointed out that official justice in the NHL is sometimes determined by the name on the back.



Why did you even bring this up? So what. I am obviously arguing against the major, which was ridiculous. Way to avoid the issue (like Crosby in a fight).

Or like the Ducks in this years playoffs?

Thought I'd give it a shot.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Or like the Ducks in this years playoffs?

Thought I'd give it a shot.

Ha! If they end up against the Wings in the first round, you might end up eating those words. (Or not, we have sucked finishing our games against the Wings this year)

That said, I know when you're up at or near the top, you don't pay much attention to the pack behind you, but the Ducks are putting on a spirited fight right now. Losing to the Oil on Friday sucked, but that was after winning five in a row, and you had to see that game. We got done in solely by goaltending. Roloson was on one of those can't be beat stretches and the Ducks completely dominated the Oilers outside of the net. Disappointing loss, but we can get it back in EDM on Tuesday.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Orr should definitely get two minutes for interference. The major and game misconduct? Who you kidding? That call was bullshit.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Why did you even bring this up? So what. I am obviously arguing against the major, which was ridiculous. Way to avoid the issue (like Crosby in a fight).

I brought it up since you questioned the major and misconduct. The way the rule is written, if the major is called, the misconduct SHOULD be called.

I already said earlier anyone else makes that hit, it's 2. Orr reputation got him the 5. The rule got him an extra 10.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Watch Malkin make perogies with Alyonka Larionov (yes, Igor's daughter).
Cameo appearance of Kris Letang.

Hilarious

NHL Network Online - Pittsburgh Penguins: Cooking with Geno

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I brought it up since you questioned the major and misconduct. The way the rule is written, if the major is called, the misconduct SHOULD be called.

Again, what's your point? Because I wrote out both? I wasn't trying to separate the two. Stop trying to go with a Straw Man argument, building up a point that has never been argued, so that you can knock it down, because you don't have the ammo to knock down my main point, that calling a major there is bull.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Again, what's your point? Because I wrote out both? I wasn't trying to separate the two. Stop trying to go with a Straw Man argument, building up a point that has never been argued, so that you can knock it down, because you don't have the ammo to knock down my main point, that calling a major there is bull.

Post above edited to add, and already addressed in initial post.

Orr's reputation got him the 5.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I think he was arguing the interference call, since he says it should have been 0, not 2.

Actually I had thought it was a boarding penalty. Should read more carefully next time I don't argue that the interference was called wrongly. I think we are all basically in agreement here... should have been 2 not 5, BS call.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

1) Orr's hit was interference, no more, no less. Should have been two minutes, and Eaton needs to learn to stay on his feet.

In Pittsburgh, we are more shocked that Eaton didn't shatter into 46 pieces upon impact.

[MizzouRah]

Note to Nash.. next time you try to knock Oshie on his ass, think again.

[TurnerONU22]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Note to Nash.. next time you try to knock Oshie on his ass, think again.

I hate to say it, but he is a beast. He did wake up Nash last night though, and helped us get a point. I still can't figure out why we play like crap against the Blues. We had a chance to basically lock up the playoffs and we choked it all away. Now we have the Preds coming up and that doesn't go well either.

I still don't know why everyone thinks that the Jackets are a lock for the playoffs. I expect them to choke it all away at this point.