The Official 2013 MLB Thread

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Oh look- another Cabrera home run. That's #40 and he's only 4 behind Davis now and leading in the other two Triple Crown categories.

SI

Davis hit his 45th today as well.

[SirFozzie]

We're an hour and a half in at Fenway, and we've had A-Rod plunked, causing the benches to semi-clear, Girardi ejected for arguing (and apparently throwing something that looked like a left hook at an umpire), it's 3-3..

And we've only played three innings.

Yup, another Sox-Yankees all nighter.

[miami_fan]

The lying that has gone on after the end of the Yankee-Red Sox game is Braun-esque.

[Logan]

Good job Ryan Dempster, making yourself look like a bigger piece of shit than A-Rod. Well done.

[Thomkal]

Speaking of Ryan Braun, his story has gotten even more pathetic:

Ryan Braun lobbied veteran players for support during appeal, sources say - ESPN

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Speaking of Ryan Braun, his story has gotten even more pathetic:

Ryan Braun lobbied veteran players for support during appeal, sources say - ESPN

From the article:

Braun is expected to speak publicly for the first time since his drug suspension very soon, perhaps as soon as Monday. A source with knowledge of his thinking says Braun wants to make things right again.

Good luck with that.

[panerd]

Yeah Braun isn't even religious at all but was planning on playing the anti-semite and crazy Cubs fan cards. Yet A-Rod is who the nation thinks is a piece of shit fraud. I realize both can be piece of shit frauds but 65 games for Braun and 200+ for A-Rod still just doesn't make any sense to me. (Unless A-Rod turned down 65 which seems highly unlikely)

[Logan]

Originally Posted by panerd

Yeah Braun isn't even religious at all but was planning on playing the anti-semite and crazy Cubs fan cards. Yet A-Rod is who the nation thinks is a piece of shit fraud. I realize both can be piece of shit frauds but 65 games for Braun and 200+ for A-Rod still just doesn't make any sense to me. (Unless A-Rod turned down 65 which seems highly unlikely)

Turned down 50 if you believe this:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-...games-in-april

[cougarfreak]

It's all about the money (something you already know, I'm sure). If there was EVER an eye opener for sports fans it should have been the Lance Armstrong debacle. Here's a guy who used cancer to make millions of dollars, and was using PED's the entire time, and denying their use. Put all of these baseball players in that same category. Braun doesn't care, hell he got his, and will continue to get his money. Same for Arod. They will lie, cheat, throw people under the bus, and continue to do so, until penalties are in place that ensure once they are caught, they are banned for life.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

It's all about the money (something you already know, I'm sure). If there was EVER an eye opener for sports fans it should have been the Lance Armstrong debacle. Here's a guy who used cancer to make millions of dollars, and was using PED's the entire time, and denying their use. Put all of these baseball players in that same category. Braun doesn't care, hell he got his, and will continue to get his money. Same for Arod. They will lie, cheat, throw people under the bus, and continue to do so, until penalties are in place that ensure once they are caught, they are banned for life.

Which brings me back to my point that they need to write a letter of agreement into the CBA that basically detaches you from your current contracted pay and forces you into a renegotiation. Until the pain hits the pocket it won't be enough of a deterrent.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Which brings me back to my point that they need to write a letter of agreement into the CBA that basically detaches you from your current contracted pay and forces you into a renegotiation. Until the pain hits the pocket it won't be enough of a deterrent.

But therein lies the problem. The cost of the steroid story doesn't hurt individual players, it hurts the institution as a whole so it's one those situations where it's to an individual's benefit to use as they don't pay the externality cost or they only pay it in small amounts. If baseball as a whole suffers a 5% loss in popularity due to cheating but you do gain 50% because of your performance relative to your peers then you are financially incentivized to cheat.

And I think it's fairly evident that MLBPA cares pretty much only about money. And if you judge them only by the financial gain they have helped their players achieve, then it would be hard to deny their effectiveness. However, it denies the reality of concern for working conditions in that you really need to be on drugs to succeed. And that's without getting into the moral or ethical ramifications.

SI

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Logan

Turned down 50 if you believe this:

Eye On Baseball - CBSSports.com Report: A-Rod declined suspension of 'way, way less' games in April

Which almost makes you wonder about the people who took the suspension - did they do it because they were threatened with many more games if they didn't?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

But therein lies the problem. The cost of the steroid story doesn't hurt individual players, it hurts the institution as a whole so it's one those situations where it's to an individual's benefit to use as they don't pay the externality cost or they only pay it in small amounts. If baseball as a whole suffers a 5% loss in popularity due to cheating but you do gain 50% because of your performance relative to your peers then you are financially incentivized to cheat.

And I think it's fairly evident that MLBPA cares pretty much only about money. And if you judge them only by the financial gain they have helped their players achieve, then it would be hard to deny their effectiveness. However, it denies the reality of concern for working conditions in that you really need to be on drugs to succeed. And that's without getting into the moral or ethical ramifications.

SI

One can quite easily argue that the popularity of the game has never been higher, and that is partially due to the results of PEDs.

[lungs]

Just wanted to throw a question out there to see what people think....

What percent of active players do you believe to be using banned substances today?

The reason I ask is because the latest round of suspensions had only a couple positive test attributed to it (Braun and Bartolo Colon served his suspension earlier, maybe one more too that I'm forgetting?) Point being, it's pretty obvious that it's still pretty easy to cheat the actual drug testing portion of the system.

It was actually a conversation with a former PED user this spring that convinced me that Braun is a liar and that there is still significant usage in MLB. Maybe not 50% but 25% wouldn't surprise me. You have to be an idiot to get caught these days was the takeaway message I got from him.

[sterlingice]

If we include basically undetectable HGH, I suspect it's still over 50%

SI

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Logan

Good job Ryan Dempster, making yourself look like a bigger piece of shit than A-Rod. Well done.

Dempster should be facing a 5 game suspension. Dude threw at A-Rod four times before hitting him. I know he says he was throwing "inside" but inside of what? Third base?

[Solecismic]

This Dempster thing... I'm starting to feel bad for A-Rod.

Glad to see on SoSH that most of us think it was a bush-league move.

Yeah, I know A-Rod's done a great job creating this situation on his own, but it's starting to sound like good fun if he ends up beating Cashman and Selig at this game. I've never liked bullying, and Dempster should have been ejected on the spot.

[DanGarion]

Feel bad for A-Rod? He brought it on himself.

[BishopMVP]

Xander just got called up, so at least there's some good Red Sox news after that debacle last night.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Feel bad for A-Rod? He brought it on himself.

What did he do to Ryan Dempster, exactly?

[larrymcg421]

I thought the length of A-Rod's suspension was partly due to his interference with MLB's investigation. That certainly separates him from many of the others and warrants a disparity in the number of games.

[chadritt]

Originally Posted by Logan

What did he do to Ryan Dempster, exactly?

Cheated against him and his colleagues/friends for years?

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by chadritt

Cheated against him and his colleagues/friends for years?

So do they throw at Ortiz (among many of their other teammates) during BP?

*I hate A-Rod

[panerd]

Yeah its playing to the fans and nothing more. I can't believe Dempster could even bear to put on a Cubs uniform with Sammy Sosa on the team.

I would add it is pretty Bush league for the ump to allow 4 attempts and to do nothing but eject the beaned players umpire. MLB has to do something if for no other reason than the obvious message they send otherwise.

[Jas_lov]

Dempster could have just thrown at him once, which he did on the 1st pitch, and been done with it. Instead, he threw at him 4 times and managed to look worse than A-Rod in the whole process. And the ump was even worse because he warned the Yankees after Dempster threw at one of the players 4 straight times. Girardi was absolutely right, now watch him get suspended for his tirade.

Everyone is hypocritical when it comes to PEDs. Selig, MLB, the fans. Those fans love Big Papi yet he also cheated and never came clean. Selig let this go on for years. And the players are all part of the union that collectively bargained the appeal process. If Dempster and Lackey don't want A-Rod playing then they should work to change the process.

[Dutch]

Hours of ESPN coverage given to C Jose Lobaton's walk-off triple, walk-off homerun combo this weekend: 1 hour.

Hours of ESPN coverage given to suspended but still playing cheater Alex Rodriguez: 3,248 hours.

Is it baseball? Or General Hospital for dudes...

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Mike D

ESPN
Is it baseball? Or General Hospital for dudes...

I think you answered your own question with these 4 letters. ESPN is basically unwatchable to me these days.

[cartman]

Rangers just pulled off something you don't see often. All 9 batters scored a run in the 3rd inning against the Astros.

[PilotMan]

Dodgers look hungover now after that run.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Dodgers look hungover now after that run.

Not going to keep winning at an .800 clip the rest of the way?

SI

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Not going to keep winning at an .800 clip the rest of the way?

SI

Obviously not, I'm just saying after that run I wouldn't be surprised if they had a 3-7 run and drop 5 straight. That's how they looked tonight.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by cartman

Rangers just pulled off something you don't see often. All 9 batters scored a run in the 3rd inning against the Astros.

I don't know, it seems to happen to little league teams like the Astros fairly frequently.

[Thomkal]

Tejada also implicated in the Biogenesis mess, and apparently made a deal to take the Adderall suspension over the Biogenesis one.

Miguel Tejada of Kansas City Royals also implicated in the Biogenesis scandal, sources say - ESPN

Also Pujois out for the season now-I wonder if he's wishing he stayed in St. Louis?

[Easy Mac]

Would he have not gotten hurt in St. Louis?

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Tejada also implicated in the Biogenesis mess, and apparently made a deal to take the Adderall suspension over the Biogenesis one.

Miguel Tejada of Kansas City Royals also implicated in the Biogenesis scandal, sources say - ESPN

Also Pujois out for the season now-I wonder if he's wishing he stayed in St. Louis?

What?! He took vitamin B12 shots again!? Didn't he learn the first time?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Would he have not gotten hurt in St. Louis?

Of course he could have-was just commenting that the Cardinals have still been successful without him, Angels have not with him.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

What?! He took vitamin B12 shots again!? Didn't he learn the first time?

Apparently, its what was mixed in with the B12 shots that they caught him on.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Tejada also implicated in the Biogenesis mess, and apparently made a deal to take the Adderall suspension over the Biogenesis one.

Miguel Tejada of Kansas City Royals also implicated in the Biogenesis scandal, sources say - ESPN

Also Pujois out for the season now-I wonder if he's wishing he stayed in St. Louis?

Fucking MLB. Should have hit him for each one - why do they keep cutting deals with this cheaters. Fucking ridiculous.

That being said - if he truly had been taking Adderall for 5 years and it was just a case where his notification to the league or whatever timed out (as he claims) then I think that's a place where the league SHOULD have cut him a little bit of slack and not popped him for that. Common sense and all.

[molson]

Geez, 8 years and $212 million to go.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Fucking MLB. Should have hit him for each one - why do they keep cutting deals with this cheaters. Fucking ridiculous.

That being said - if he truly had been taking Adderall for 5 years and it was just a case where his notification to the league or whatever timed out (as he claims) then I think that's a place where the league SHOULD have cut him a little bit of slack and not popped him for that. Common sense and all.

Same reason they tried to ambush ARod on NBC yesterday. It's become embarrassing to watch them try and enforce the rules but they do it in such an arbitrary fashion that there is no faith that they are doing anything but cutting deals and/or being vindictive. I hate ARod as much as the next guy but given the stuff we're seeing come out about this, Braun, etc. why did ARod deserve anything more than Braun's 65 games?

[molson]

Originally Posted by rowech

why did ARod deserve anything more than Braun's 65 games?

His MLB suspension was the only one that contained specific language about obstruction, as in, the longer suspension was "for attempting to cover-up his violations of the Program by engaging in a course of conduct intended to obstruct and frustrate the Office of the Commissioner's investigation." (Edit: That obstruction apparently included trying to buy incriminating evidence about himself and others from Biogensis to destroy it, and then leaking incriminating information about other players to Yahoo sports, for some reason). He got the extra time not under the drug policy, but under the "conduct detrimental to baseball" clause. Yes, Cabrera made a fake website, and Braun acted like a dick, but obviously the MLB determined that A-Rod's conduct was far more egregious.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by molson

His MLB suspension was the only one that contained specific language about obstruction, as in, the longer suspension was "for attempting to cover-up his violations of the Program by engaging in a course of conduct intended to obstruct and frustrate the Office of the Commissioner's investigation." (Edit: That obstruction apparently included trying to buy incriminating evidence about himself and others from Biogensis to destroy it, and then leaking incriminating information about other players to Yahoo sports, for some reason). He got the extra time not under the drug policy, but under the "conduct detrimental to baseball" clause. Yes, Cabrera made a fake website, and Braun acted like a dick, but obviously the MLB determined that A-Rod's conduct was far more egregious.

See I keep hearing that Braun got that "anti-semitic Cubs fan" fired. Maybe the firing is just an urban legend but knowing you are a cheater and still throwing some poor innocent guy under the bus puts Braun up there with A-Rod and if the guy was fired puts him above A-Rod on my list.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Fucking MLB. Should have hit him for each one - why do they keep cutting deals with this cheaters. Fucking ridiculous.

That being said - if he truly had been taking Adderall for 5 years and it was just a case where his notification to the league or whatever timed out (as he claims) then I think that's a place where the league SHOULD have cut him a little bit of slack and not popped him for that. Common sense and all.

I think it may be MLB coming down harder on Adderall users as its become more and more a drug connected to PED use of late.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by panerd

See I keep hearing that Braun got that "anti-semitic Cubs fan" fired. Maybe the firing is just an urban legend but knowing you are a cheater and still throwing some poor innocent guy under the bus puts Braun up there with A-Rod and if the guy was fired puts him above A-Rod on my list.

Not just that but then calling other players to drum up support? Come on...he's just as bad.

[molson]

Originally Posted by panerd

See I keep hearing that Braun got that "anti-semitic Cubs fan" fired. Maybe the firing is just an urban legend but knowing you are a cheater and still throwing some poor innocent guy under the bus puts Braun up there with A-Rod and if the guy was fired puts him above A-Rod on my list.

I agree, Braun is probably the bigger douchebag. And A-Rod at least actually did admit to using at one point, something Braun still hasn't done (though apparently he is soon, but we'll see what the lawyers actually write for him to say). I understand the MLB's rationale too, especially if A-Rod was actively interfering in investigations involving other players. I'd be fine with lifetime bans for both, but I'm definitely not going to feel bad for either one for getting a harsher sentence than someone else. Both of their careers will be defined by this and that's probably the biggest punishment long-term. And I'm kind of impressed that MLB finally got any kind of suspension for this stuff at all after the most powerful labor union in the country fought for years and years for the right of their members to take illegal performing-enhancing drugs.

[cartman]

I know it is an almost impossible line to define, but I have a little bit more sympathy for players that take the banned substances to get back to their normal level after an injury than ones that use them to take their normal level to a higher one. To me, for the first scenario the banned substances aren't 'performance enhancing'. But since that line is nebulous between normal and better than normal, that's why the substances are banned.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by molson

Geez, 8 years and $212 million to go.

Hey, at least he's batting better than Josh Hamilton.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by molson

Geez, 8 years and $212 million to go.

So, is the ultimate difference when taking this stuff reaction time, strength, something else?

You have to understand that we Royals fans are all relatively new to this thing. Our players just started doping up in the last few years.

[BishopMVP]

Obviously, Pujols has more problems, but it is worth noting that the league average OPS has dropped about .030 in the last few years. After being at least .748 for every year from 1994-2009, OPS the last 4 years has been .728, .720, .724 and now .715, mostly tied to an increasing K rate (up to an historical high near 20% now). 1st basemen in particular have been hit hard, falling from an average .825 OPS to .766. (So as bad as Pujols seems compared to his past self, he's still perfectly cromulent for a 1B.)

Pujols himself http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...77&position=1B does have a walk rate that cratered the year before he left St. Louis and a career high K rate, combined with a very low BABIP despite his highest line drive rate since 2008. If you think he was doping, maybe you can tie some of the drop in BB rate to pitchers being less scared of his power, but I think the foot injury, moving to the AL, and just some bad luck have been bigger factors. I don't think he'll ever jump back into the 1.100 OPS range, but I'd guess he'll be back in the .850-.900 range when healthy. Hitters that good for that long don't just completely fall off the map barring injury.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

1st basemen in particular have been hit hard, falling from an average .825 OPS to .766. (So as bad as Pujols seems compared to his past self, he's still perfectly cromulent for a 1B.)

There needs to forever be an asterisk next to this year's first base numbers just based on the Brewers alone trotting out two bad hitting shortstops (Alex Gonzalez, Yuniesky Betancourt) at first base for a good chunk of the year.