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View Poll Results: How is Obama doing? (poll started 6/6) | |||
Great - above my expectations | 18 | 6.87% | |
Good - met most of my expectations | 66 | 25.19% | |
Average - so so, disappointed a little | 64 | 24.43% | |
Bad - sold us out | 101 | 38.55% | |
Trout - don't know yet | 13 | 4.96% | |
Voters: 262. You may not vote on this poll |
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Thread Tools |
07-15-2012, 08:59 AM | #17451 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
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Quote:
Outside of the (perhaps necessary) imperialistic diplomacy in the middle east which continually leaves us the options of hated dictators that when overthrown bring in anti-American leadership for the first periods of their democracies, I'd agree. Most of those countries are so newly established post WWI/WWII that a more nuanced approach may not have worked anyway, but. *shrug* |
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07-15-2012, 09:00 AM | #17452 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Lisboa, ME
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I have to say I've enjoyed the discussion between Marc and Dutch and everyone else, because I'm learning quite a bit about things that were most certainly before my time.
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07-15-2012, 09:24 AM | #17453 | |
SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
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Quote:
Back in WW1 the way the Germans were demonised in propoganda to the English lower classes with their fear of them making the sacrifice they made far more acceptable to them. The lack of knowledge/education available to the English lower classes meant they were far more accepting of the propoganda - I recall one of the things we were taught in History was about the shock of the troopers when they first came across German corpses and realised from the crosses etc. on the bodies that they were also Christians. Last edited by Marc Vaughan : 07-15-2012 at 09:25 AM. |
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07-15-2012, 10:12 AM | #17454 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
You're right, but I will say that the dramatic shift in the Middle East is similiar to the dramatic shifts that happened in post-colonial Africa. There is this myth that independence brings with it--industrialized nation status, which is simply not true. But you have to start with independence/liberty, democracy (or representative democracy) and then the people basically get to "choose your own adventure". Once the people realize that THEY voted those backwards Islamic brotherhoods in but THEY can vote them out, it's a whole new ballgame. The idea of eliminating dictatorships isn't to install puppet governments (which would be a short-term gain at best) but to allow the people to do what they want. If they choose to hate America, so be it, gives our military reason to stay prepared and our alliances together. Last edited by Dutch : 07-15-2012 at 10:15 AM. |
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07-15-2012, 10:30 AM | #17455 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
I agree, lack of knowledge is a prime conditioner for propaganda. Of course, the Germans being "demonised" was probably a neccessary evil (white lies?) because prior to the communist threat, fascism was even more insane...so I don't mind the intent there. |
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07-15-2012, 10:32 AM | #17456 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
I generally stay away from these sorts of discussions, but since Marc is such a well respected member of this board, I wanted to make sure he understood the inaccuracies and wrong-headedness of his pacifism. |
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07-15-2012, 07:07 PM | #17457 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Low class. I can get this being done to Bill but to the victim is pretty sad.
Protests as Clinton holds meetings in Egypt - CNN.com Quote:
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07-15-2012, 07:26 PM | #17458 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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That's pretty tame compared to how Egypt typically treats women.
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07-15-2012, 07:37 PM | #17459 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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Kindof surprised Karl Rove was orchestrating rallies over in the Middle East. Good of him to get out of the house every once in a while
Also, Egypt knows or cares who Bill Clinton was doing? That's two Presidents ago. I'm pretty sure Sarcozy was having an affair or two but I don't remember their names. I'm not even sure I knew their names. I didn't think people in other parts of the world knew or cared. SI
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Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" Last edited by sterlingice : 07-15-2012 at 07:39 PM. |
07-15-2012, 08:34 PM | #17460 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Satellite of Love
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Quote:
I guess 1998 finally made it to Egypt? |
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07-15-2012, 08:37 PM | #17461 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Lisboa, ME
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My God are they going to hate Limp Bizkit.
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07-15-2012, 08:53 PM | #17462 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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Gotta ask: was that the first awful pop culture thing that came to mind or did you go through a few and settle on Limp Bizkit as the worst? SI
__________________
Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" |
07-15-2012, 08:54 PM | #17463 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Lisboa, ME
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Quote:
It was the first.
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07-15-2012, 10:07 PM | #17464 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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Quote:
Are you sure you're American? If you were, you would know that everyone cares about us. |
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07-15-2012, 10:29 PM | #17465 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bryson Shitty, NC
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Recklessly enthused, stubbornly amused. FUCK EA
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07-16-2012, 08:34 AM | #17466 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Nothing new, same stuff that we have been debating on. Just another POV.
Five Obamacare Myths - NYTimes.com Quote:
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07-16-2012, 08:38 AM | #17467 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Not sure if this was better here or in the official Zombie Apocalypse thread. Its great how its all things zombie now.
The myth of the 'Zombie Economy' - Jul. 16, 2012 Quote:
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07-16-2012, 09:05 AM | #17468 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Its likely Romney-Pawlenty per NY Times ...
Pawlenty Looked at as Romney Running Mate - NYTimes.com Quote:
Last edited by Edward64 : 07-16-2012 at 09:06 AM. |
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07-16-2012, 09:36 AM | #17469 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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On paper, Pawlenty is very qualified. He's a logical pick in a lot of ways. But he looks like this:
I think that you might get a Dan Quayle/John Kerry effect here. The fact that you are not a goober does not matter much to the American Public if you look like a goober. And Pawlenty looks like a goober. And he has a goober name. Not his fault. I have nothing against the guy. But what does he bring to the table? Personally, I think that Romney should pick Governor Susana Martinez. Give us someone to be excited about. Also, if Team Romney is going to drop the VP pick now, that means that they are running scared from the Bain information that's come out. I'm still doubtful that the Bain thing has legs, but I'm not on the inside, so maybe I am missing something. |
07-16-2012, 10:06 AM | #17470 |
College Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
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If Pawlenty hadn't finished behind Bachmann in a straw poll and dropped out, he probably should have been the Republican nominee in the first place.
Romney's running from Bain, he can't talk about being governor because of RomneyCare, which leaves him the 2002 Olympics? He's just a poor choice when you want to repeal health care and dealing with an economy still struggling back from being tanked by financiers. |
07-16-2012, 10:13 AM | #17471 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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VPs generally don't make any difference, so Pawlenty is as good as anybody.
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07-16-2012, 10:33 AM | #17472 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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He's probably as good of a safe pick as Romney can make. He won't upstage him, he is pretty well-vetted (essentially ran for president for 2-years and was a governor for 8-years), he is Midwestern(ish), no ties to the Bush administration and is pretty qualified to be one heartbeat away.
I understand if they don't pick Portman (tied to Bush), but I think he has been a much better surrogate as far as attacking Obama with teeth. Pawlenty is a little too flimsy (or, as albion put it: a goober) to be the attack dog. I think Pawlenty was pretty unpopular in Minnesota in the last poll that I saw, as well. Watching the Republican ticket come together, you have to think that Jeb Bush would really love to give his brother a good, swift kick in the ass. |
07-16-2012, 11:03 AM | #17473 |
College Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
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Jeb Bush should probably fake his death and get a new name like he doesn't have DirectTV if he wants to run for president.
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07-16-2012, 11:13 AM | #17474 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
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Jeb Bush's future was pretty much determined when he lost in 1994 to Lawton Chiles, while his brother beat Ann Richards at the same time. If Jeb had won in 94, then I think he would've been the one to run in 2000.
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07-16-2012, 12:27 PM | #17475 |
Torchbearer
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: On Lake Harriet
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07-16-2012, 01:01 PM | #17476 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
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07-16-2012, 06:34 PM | #17477 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego
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Found Romney's VP: Cat has been mayor of Alaska town for 15 years | The Sideshow - Yahoo! News
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07-16-2012, 07:12 PM | #17478 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bryson Shitty, NC
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If it can happen with Palin...
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Recklessly enthused, stubbornly amused. FUCK EA
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07-16-2012, 08:15 PM | #17479 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
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Quote:
To get back to the meat of this discussion, I think it's very widely acknowledged nowadays that the USSR didn't have anywhere near the military capability they tried to suggest, and indeed that a major cause of their downfall was ridiculously high military spending in trying to keep their antiquated military anywhere near up to U.S. standards. How much the U.S. and UK realized that is more than I can speak to, but I think it's certainly hyperbole to suggest that the USSR could have easily taken over Europe if U.S. forces were removed. Certainly it would have been much easier, but I think the idea of U.S. stationing in Europe had more to do with a deterrent to keep the USSR from slowly advancing out of E. Europe, not preventing some inevitable and easy conquest. |
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07-16-2012, 09:14 PM | #17480 | |||
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
There military was quite formidable from 1945-1970 (at least), especially when compared to what was left of the armies of Europe immediately following the aftermath of WWII (the Germans were defeated and shattered, the French had been occupied for 4 or 5 years and dismantled and never returned to their former power, the Italians were, of course, laughable as usual when it came to defense. While those countries healed, they never formed a military even remotely close to what the Soviets had. Not to mention the nuclear stockpiles that still exist today. While their conventional abilities did dwindle over time, the threat of nukes still more than made up for it. You are absolutely right though that their communist economy had no chance to compete long-term with our capitalist economy. They were forced to spend way too much of the GDP on defense and it sunk them. I have no idea what the %'s were but the communists got the boot when they couldn't provide basic services to the populace anymore. Quote:
I don't see that as hyperbole. I think the reality is that, at best, it wasn't something we wanted to prove. I mean, how do we walk away chest-bumping because "...the Russian offensive stalled 650km past Paris...but hey they didn't get to Madrid!!!" Quote:
The big concern was that the Soviets might take over Europe and then hold it hostage with nukes. Remember, the Soviets were still just a little bit pissed at Europe for initiating the death of some 30-50 million Russians. Think about that for a minute. They had a lot of motivation to say, "Fuck it." The reason that they held off after WWII was because the US/UK/France and the USSR were allies and "the west" controled West Germany...the Russians didn't want to stop at Berlin, remember they past Berlin, they only stopped when they ran into western troops and had to. Once we became adversaries, it was the threat of nukes that kept the Soviets at bay. |
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07-16-2012, 11:14 PM | #17481 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I don't really think Romney is as bad as Obama portrays him but I am glad to see Obama on the offensive. Bain and lack of tax returns are going to plague Romney. Romney will need to redirect back to economy somehow.
President Obama attacks Mitt Romney’s jobs plan - The Washington Post Quote:
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07-16-2012, 11:20 PM | #17482 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
I do believe without US troops, equipment and/or deterrent, the USSR would have walked over the other NATO forces in mainland Europe. |
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07-17-2012, 07:13 AM | #17483 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cary, NC
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Will one candidate or the other please stand up and tell me what's good about you rather than what's wrong with the other guy?
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07-17-2012, 07:35 AM | #17484 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Interesting. I thought the rebels were on the ropes ... and now they are in Damascus?
BBC News - Syria conflict: 'Fresh clashes rock Damascus' Quote:
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07-17-2012, 07:59 AM | #17485 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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07-17-2012, 08:49 AM | #17486 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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Quote:
Thats not how you win elections. You gotta tell people whats wrong and point at eh other guy and say he's to blame for it and make them afraid of it. Haven't you ever seen "The American President"? |
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07-17-2012, 09:18 AM | #17487 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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More pundits. If Bill Kristol says he should do it, he should do it.
Eugene Robinson: Romney’s problem of his own making - The Washington Post Quote:
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07-17-2012, 09:23 AM | #17488 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cary, NC
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My favorite movie about a President is My Fellow Americans (1996) - IMDb.
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07-17-2012, 10:16 AM | #17489 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Appleton, WI
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Can anyone explain to me why so many conservatives are coming out publicly and suggesting that Romney release more tax returns, and be more forthcoming about Bain? Doing this publicly can only hurt their candidate's credibility. Keeping these suggestions within the party would seem to make more sense. Is there a play here that I am not seeing? Are they somehow trying to discredit Romney so someone else can be put on the ballot? Are moderate Republicans finally taking a stand against the conservative members of their party? This just seems like such a bad strategy move that there must be a different strategy involved.
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07-17-2012, 10:25 AM | #17490 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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Quote:
My guess is that the returns don't show anything bad. So they are trying to collapse the whole Bain argument into "He should release the returns." Then he does, and there's nothing there. |
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07-17-2012, 10:41 AM | #17491 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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If Romney were politically brilliant, he'd release the tax returns a week from Friday (the 27th), which, in addition to being a Friday, is also the day of the Opening Ceremoney of the Olympics.
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07-17-2012, 10:49 AM | #17492 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
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Quote:
So, based on his campaign, he'll probably choose his Vice President that day? |
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07-17-2012, 10:55 AM | #17493 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
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Quote:
I think you're giving him too much credit. If there was nothing in there, he would've released them during the GOP primary. I don't think there's anything illegal in there, but probably enough to counter his own argument that the rich are taxed too much.
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Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner Last edited by larrymcg421 : 07-17-2012 at 10:56 AM. |
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07-17-2012, 11:42 AM | #17494 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Agreed. Likely nothing illegal but probably some embarrassing grey area with tax avoidance etc. which will be difficult for him to explain/justify to the common person. |
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07-17-2012, 01:57 PM | #17495 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Satellite of Love
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Quote:
Decaf, you pussy. |
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07-17-2012, 02:12 PM | #17496 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dayton, OH
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"Hail to the Chief
he's the chief and he needs hailing."
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07-17-2012, 07:29 PM | #17497 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Lisboa, ME
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07-17-2012, 07:37 PM | #17498 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Bain killed Romney in his 1994 Senate run. How can he not have an answer to these attacks after almost twenty years?
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07-17-2012, 09:05 PM | #17499 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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After breaking Batman's back, Romney is small potatoes... wait, wrong Bain?
SI
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Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" |
07-17-2012, 09:08 PM | #17500 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
I see you've fallen for the devious liberal conspiracy. Rush Limbaugh: Batman's 'Bane' Similar To 'Bain Capital' - Business Insider |
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