Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC and others)

[dubb93]

What a huge disappointment.....

[sovereignstar]

There went Fedor's mystique.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Dana's tweet is a smiley face. Love it.

Wow. That's not predictable at all.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

There went Fedor's mystique.

Not really. I mean really...he was bound to lose at some point. The guy was still undefeated for 10 years. He just got caught in a sub by probably the best HW sub-man out there today.

Not like anybody was saying he was unbeatable or anything. Doesn't make any of his past accomplishments any less impressive.

[sovereignstar]

Definitions of mystique on the Web:
an aura of heightened value or interest or meaning surrounding a person or thing
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Not really. I mean really...he was bound to lose at some point. The guy was still undefeated for 10 years. He just got caught in a sub by probably the best HW sub-man out there today.

Not like anybody was saying he was unbeatable or anything. Doesn't make any of his past accomplishments any less impressive.

It's not that he got beat. He got beat in 69 seconds by a guy nobody gave a chance.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Matthean

It's not that he got beat. He got beat in 69 seconds by a guy nobody gave a chance.

a guy with crazy good BJJ skills. A BJJ guy will always have a chance against anybody. Particularly that early in the fight when nobody's slippery enough to get out of a hold.

all the great ones lose. Matt Hughes? GSP? BJ Penn? Uriah Faber.

[PilotMan]

Even Brett Favre, the greatest QB in NFL history, throws an interception that causes his team to lose the chance to win their first Super Bowl in franchise history, so you gotta cut Fedor some slack. He will always have his accomplishments. What we won't have is a chance to go back and make up for all that time that he essentially took off by not fighting in the US.

I mean it was bound to happen sometime. I honestly think that he really isn't cut out for the new age of MMA. Ideally, he would drop 20 pounds and fight at 205. He wouldn't have the speed advantage but his punching power would be devastating.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Even Brett Favre, the greatest QB in NFL history

Are you drunk?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

a guy with crazy good BJJ skills. A BJJ guy will always have a chance against anybody. Particularly that early in the fight when nobody's slippery enough to get out of a hold.

all the great ones lose. Matt Hughes? GSP? BJ Penn? Uriah Faber.

No doubt about it, the thing that is "shocking" about this loss though is that he practically put himself in position to lose. Nobody is unbeatable in MMA, it's just that Fedor knew his opponents skills and made a mistake you don't expect someone of his poise and experience to make.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

No doubt about it, the thing that is "shocking" about this loss though is that he practically put himself in position to lose. Nobody is unbeatable in MMA, it's just that Fedor knew his opponents skills and made a mistake you don't expect someone of his poise and experience to make.

That's very true.

[Carman Bulldog]

This?

No.

This. (and this and this)

By the top ten argument in the first post, Josh Gross' June top 10 heavyweights looks like this. In brackets are victories over other top ten opponents in the past 5 1/2 years (January 2005 and beyond), the date when MMA moved into the modern era.

1. Fedor Emelianenko (None)
2. Brock Lesnar (Mir)
3. Shane Carwin (Mir)
4. Cain Velasquez (Nogueira)
5. Junior dos Santos (Werdum)
6. Frank Mir (Lesnar, Nogueira)
7. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (Werdum)
8. Alistair Overeem (None)
9. Fabricio Werdum (Fedor, Overeem)
10. Antonio Silva (None)

You can call me crazy, but a guy that is 0-1 against top 10 competition in the past 5 1/2 years should not be ranked as the top heavyweight in the world, let alone discussed as being in the top 3 pound for pound fighters. And thankfully, after last night, he probably won't be any longer (although I'm sure there will be plenty who write it off as a fluke).

Let's go back on Fedor's last 10 fights...

• Werdum - We all saw how that went. Did he just get caught? Probably, and I would expect Fedor to win about 8 out of 10 times against Werdum. But still, he made the same mistake that Lesnar made against Mir in their first fight. However, Lesnar had 69 seconds of prior MMA experience before that Mir fight. Can't say the same for Fedor.
• Rogers - was changing tires a few months before the Fedor fight and just started training full time. Post-Fedor, he was dismantled by Overeem
• Arlovski - 0-3 since 2009
• Sylvia - Lost his next fight after Fedor to 48 year old Ray Mercer in 9 seconds. But hey, he did just beat the world's strongest man.
• Hong Man Choi - Well, I guess he's better than Jose Canseco
• Lindland - All 185 pounds of him
• Mark Hunt - Career Record, 5 - 6
• Mark Coleman - 42 years old at the time (and, as we saw, Randy Couture he is not)
• Wagner da Conceicao Martins - For real? The guy lost to Butterbean.
• Crocop - Fedor's last good win, over a guy who at the time was debatably the #2 or #3 heavyweight in the world. Funny how Crocop has actually fought a few legit guys and as such is no longer considered as good as he once was.

Before this, Fedor was the man. But that was still the tail end of the dark ages of MMA where one dimensional fighters were successful. Let's not forget that along with Fedor, Nogueira and Crocop were considered the big three at the time. Those two were both very one dimensional fighters at the time, and in fact, their overall skills have improved quite a bit since then.

The other thing to keep in mind is that in three total fights against Nog and Crocop (I won't count the NC with Nog), Fedor failed to finish either man. Personally, I consider Nog a better overall fighter today than back then, although admittedly his style has taken a toll on him. A large part of his improvment though is who he trains with. The level of training today in MMA was unheard of five years ago. Fighters improve by training with and fighting against top level competition, and Fedor has done neither. I just don't see Red Devil as being anywhere near the same level of a Team Nogueira, AKA, ATT, Xtreme Couture, or Greg Jackson's.

Everyone loses. However, in this instance one of the best fighters in the world was somehow able to not only sustain but further build his reputation by beating scrubs when in actuality, he would have lost long ago if he had faced any other top tier fighters. Even more impressive than his win streak is how he was able to sustain being ranked as the top heavyweight in the world for as long as he did, after facing the level of competition he faced.

I don't hate Fedor. In fact, I quite enjoy many of his fights. I still remember (and likely always will) where I was while watching the Kevin Randleman fight live, thinking that Randleman had just killed Fedor, only to have Fedor sweep him and get the armbar. There aren't many (if any) bad Fedor fights.

But I do dislike the many Fedor fanboys and media elitists who somehow fail to recognize that his expiration date as the top heavyweight and P4P fighter in the world expired LOOOOONG ago. And I hate the fact that he has ducked the top competition, whether he's to blame for it or not. Hopefully this loss knocks him down to his rightful place (where he should have been long ago) somewhere in the middle of the heavyweight top 10 rankings.

And hey, we can always look forward to Fedor bouncing back with a win against another ex-UFC champ such as Ricco Rodriguez or Josh Barnett. Not to mention, Kimbo Slice is always available as well.

[sovereignstar]

get over yourself

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

get over yourself

u mad

[sovereignstar]

Who's retarded enough to use the Top 10 list of June of this month when looking back on someone's fights over the past 5 1/2 years? I originally stopped reading his post after the this, this, this, this, and this crap. Then I went on and had to stop after I see the current Top 10 list.

PS - June 28th minus 5.5 years = December 28th 2004, fruitcake. Might as well give Fedor that one important Top 10 win that'd equal him with Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez, dos Santos, and Big Nog.

[dervack]

I don't know about the top ten list part of the post, but it's really hard to dispute what Fedor's last 10 fights look like. Sure, at the time we thought that Arlovski was a good challenge for Fedor and hindsight shows that Arlovski's better days are behind him. But the rest of those fights, IMO, is a collective meh, including the now 300+ pound Sylvia.

[k0ruptr]

Originally Posted by dervack

I don't know about the top ten list part of the post, but it's really hard to dispute what Fedor's last 10 fights look like. Sure, at the time we thought that Arlovski was a good challenge for Fedor and hindsight shows that Arlovski's better days are behind him. But the rest of those fights, IMO, is a collective meh, including the now 300+ pound Sylvia.

Exactly, his last 10 fights are awful. In fact, I'd say that there are a few heavyweight fighters out there that could go 9-1 against that group. quite a few in fact.

[sovereignstar]

If Fedor's last 10 look meh, then what does Brock's career record of 4 fights look like? That Top 10 is as much about hype than anything else.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Even Brett Favre, the greatest QB in NFL history, throws an interception that causes his team to lose the chance to win their first Super Bowl in franchise history, so you gotta cut Fedor some slack. He will always have his accomplishments.

sarcasmmmmmmmmmmm.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

sarcasmmmmmmmmmmm.

Didn't notice that in the tone of your voice, sorry...

[DaddyTorgo]

well said

Pat Miletich: I watched in amazement as Fedor was submitted by Fabricio Werdum. My heart sank not for Fedor but for the reality of perfection that is not attainable in the sport of MMA. All experienced fighters know you’re going to lose if you’re fighting world-class opponents, but Fedor was different.

I remember when he came on the scene in the Rings organization. My fighters and I were competing there during the dark years of the UFC. Nobody even noticed Fedor at first, but that soon changed. He was wrecking name fighters standing up and on the ground. I found it puzzling how this guy, short and average looking, was able to beat guys like Ricardo Arona.

We all know what followed, as Fedor would go on to mow through great fighters in their prime in the Pride organization.

Today on all the forums, Twitter and Facebook, people are saying they knew he wasn't the best fighter in the world. Really? All I can say is, he wasn't (Saturday) night.

Fabricio Werdum was insistent in his interview that Fedor is the best in the world. I respect Fabricio for saying this. This shows true class from a true world-class fighter, and Werdum is a true fighter. What Fedor said was something only a man like he could say. Fedor said, "A man that does not fall, does not stand up.”

I just wonder who out of all those who are so critical of this man will stand in front of him when he stands back up?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

well said

Nice article.....Shows the respect Fedor has from the ones that count the most, his peers.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yep. More so than us fans they realize that they're all inches away from a similar loss and people trashing their accomplishments.

[PilotMan]

Tomorrow we will see how one big main event and a number of unspectacular fights will carry a huge PPV event. Hopefully, it's not a total dud. Of course, I will be watching if at all possible. I am excited to see Lesnar back in the cage.

[BYU 14]

I think Lesnar could be in jeopardy. Carwin is a guy that has the strength to nullify Brock's takedowns if he is careful and the power to hurt him. Both are fairly quick for big men, though Carwin is a bit more polished in his standup.

If Lesnar had not been out of action for over a year I would give him a solid edge, but cage rust may be the wild card in this one. It will definitely be an intriguing fight.

[PilotMan]

I don't think that Leben is that much of an underdog honestly. Akiyama's standup didn't look that hot against Belcher. Leben is hungry and the fight means much more to him than it does to Akiyama. Except if he (Akiyama) loses that is.

Sosynkski v. Bonnar is meaningless IMO. A good fight hopefully, but the result will see the loser get canned in all likelihood.

As for Lesnar, you have every reason to be right. Carwin is big and quick, has more experience in the cage. Certainly knows how to finish his fights, and hits like a brick. Lesnar's chin really hasn't been tested that much, and I suspect that it isn't that great (he took a couple of shots from Couture that seemed to hurt him and Carwin is much better there.) Still, I would like to see him back in good form. He is from the same general area that I am, and I like his midwestern farmboy attitude towards it all.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Nonsense. We'll see a hyped main event where the guy who took a year off due to illness will blow up too soon and get knocked out. We'll see Akiyama overlook Leben and maybe even see the upset there. Sosynkski v Bonner should be a solid bout and Sotiropolous v Pellegrino will be one of the best, most exciting ground fights UFC has seen.

I stick to my earlier post about what could happen, but just watched an interview with Couture, who spent time in Lesnar's camp and he said he was leaner and being in shape was not an issue. Stated he was impressed with what he saw. Lesnar won't run out of gas, if he loses it will be because Carwin is sharper and catches him.

If Lesnar gets it to the ground and is patient he should win as I don't think he will make the same mistake he did in his first fight with Mir. Carwin is underrated as far as subs go, but Brock is a much better wrestler and should control him and win, if he doesn't leave an arm exposed.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Sosynkski v. Bonnar is meaningless IMO. A good fight hopefully, but the result will see the loser get canned in all likelihood.

Dana has often said Bonnar has a contract for life - be interesting to see if this remains true if he loses to Sosynzski

[DeToxRox]

Gerald Harris won tonight via KO with a slam. Can't wait to see that.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Dana has often said Bonnar has a contract for life - be interesting to see if this remains true if he loses to Sosynzski

Sounds like he will get a job within UFC but not fighting.

[EagleFan]

Predictions on tonight?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Predictions on tonight?

Lytle, Stetropolois, Bonnar (Probably not but he is going to come out both guns blazing), Sexyama and Carwin.

I feel confident on exactly zero of those picks.

[DeToxRox]

Schuab with another impressive win tonight. I don't know how he'll work vs the big boys but he can throw hands.

[PilotMan]

Lytle, Sortiopolis, Soscyinsky, Leben, and Lesnar.

[CU Tiger]

chilling with some thomas creek red ale and rj rockers patriot plus...two local sc brews an a PPV...what a ay to be an American

[EagleFan]

Is Lesner going to be too rusty?

[TLK]

Brown, Sotiropoulos, Soszynski, Sexyama and Carwin

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Gerald Harris won tonight via KO with a slam. Can't wait to see that.

Saw that on Spike. He impressed me even more by what he did after the slam.

[Recoil]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Saw that on Spike. He impressed me even more by what he did after the slam.

That was brutal what he did to Norman Smiley.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Recoil

That was brutal what he did to Norman Smiley.

Well fucking played. I thought the same thing. I was waiting for a Smiley Spank.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Saw that on Spike. He impressed me even more by what he did after the slam.

Yes, agreed.

Though if it was Bisping, I say go for it.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Yes, agreed.

Though if it was Bisping, I say go for it.

lol

+1

[CU Tiger]

That was a mighty slow stop.....

[k0ruptr]

Stephen Bonnar showed a lot of guts and balls in that fight. props to him

[PilotMan]

He almost always does, he just looks like ass in the cage. The guy is all guts. I think that's what makes him such a popular fighter.

[CU Tiger]

showed a mighty lucky knee if you ask me....he was out a couple times but then that fight was allowed to roll a bit long I thought.

[JS19]

Just got home, debating if I wanna drop the $50 just to see the Lesnar/Carwin fight. If I don't, it's gonna be the greatest fight ever and I miss it. If I do, it's gonna suck ass and I'll be pissed for wasting $50.

[PilotMan]

Sweet finish there, that was cool.