Werewolf: XIV Spawn (GAME OVER! Please give feedback)

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

Barkeep,

Do the rules encompass the possibility of RA being revived?

Vince has indeed been offered the chance to revive RA. He must spend both his AP to do so and it will require a successful role. If this is done successfully RA will be immeadiately revived.

[hoopsguy]

Long examination Day Only The doctor may choose to examine any crew member. If the crew member is a survivor, the doctor will learn this. If the crew member is infected, but has not yet become a spawn, the doctor will learn this, and will cure the crew member. If the crew member is a spawn the doctor will have a chance to cure the crew member. There is also a chance that the doctor and/or crew member will die or that the doctor will become infected. 2 AP

Vince, the reason I'm concerned about it is that I have no idea what percentage is associated with 'a chance' in the above quote. And because if you are a spawn, that bringing back RA likely isn't helping our cause. And because the idea of brining him back from his coma has the sound of a fake role.

If I'm sounding paranoid, then I accept that. I desperately want you to still be a survivor. I'm not looking to lynch you because I'm suspicious. I'm just trying to set up scenarios where we all know that you are working for us and not against us.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Vince

Why are you pushing so hard that I might have been converted? I can't help but think your efforts could be better spent elsewhere.

My argument for having suspicion for you is simple. You keep pushing to get my lynched. If I'm not lynched and promoted, I could start scanning (prefereably scanning you). This could be dangerous for you if you are spawn which would be reason enough for you to continue beating a dead horse and pushing for my lynching. At least that is my thinking at this point.

Another idea that I just had would be how would we know you brought raiders_army out of his coma as a survivor? You could re-awake him in a spawn state if you've been converted. Just an idea.

[Poli]

Vote Raiders Army

Too many people drinking water.

[Vince]

Guys, see the above post by Barkeep about whether or not I can bring him out of the coma.

Pennywise -- you have been told multiple times that there are no new conversions after we have taken off. Even if I were spawn, I could not convert Raiders back, since I cured him a few days ago.

[Poli]

I believe you, Vince.

[hoopsguy]

Vince, fwiw I understand why this would be frustrating for you. If you know that you are not spawn, then what I'm saying right now seems like a waste of time. And your actions, up until this point, have been very pro-survivor. Plus there is a pretty good chance that Raiders knows who the other spawn are.

But - there is also a chance he has no idea. He might not have been on the council, so would only have known about Dubbs. His voting pattern on Marc suggests this, as he did not vote until after Dubbs had his vote on the books. It is also possible he was promoted to the spawn council when Marc passed (would suggest there were at least four spawn to start, since that suggests that Marc was original member, not converted on away mission) and has that knowledge.

I don't know which way I would want to have you go if you scan Penny and say he is clean. I like the scenario I laid out earlier for Penny to scan you. I think that if we have two people working on scans, out of twelve remaining people, that we should be able to ID the remaining spawn. But we might be able to save more than twelve if Raiders has info on the other spawn (not a lock, I don't think).

[KWhit]

I don't think we should vote to lynch RA. We can accomplish the same thing by keeping him from drinking water. Let's save our vote for someone else.

[hoopsguy]

Ardent, if you are convinced that Vince is still a survivor then you could make this easier by ordering him to work on Raiders Army. I believe you are still a survivor - I expect someone would have stepped up to claim they were the Miracle Worker if you had been lying at that time.

Day 1 - Ardent on ship (not Away Team), scanned by Vince
Night 1 - spawn attack on Vince
Day 2 - Ardent on ship
Night 2 - no news of spawn attack, Vince attacked in brig
Day 3 - Ardent reveals as miracle worker, participates in Away Team (no chance of spawn)

So for you to be spawn you would either have had to be original spawn, and scanned by Vince, or converted on Night 2. If you and Vince were original spawn, then you guys went through a very elaborate scenario in outing Dubb. I would stand up and applaud at the end of the game if this is the case, but I can't talk myself into believing this. So the only worry about you is in Night 2.

I find it very statistically improbable that you are both spawn. So I would be very comfortable with you ordering Vince to work on Raiders today. More comfortable than I would be with Vince reaching this decision on his own, if that makes sense.

[KWhit]

Also, it seems like an appropriate time to do this:

I am part of the Absolute Trust. I have a connection with some other crew members on board. However, the only one I've been able to identify yet is pennywiseb. He is not a spawn.

[RealDeal]

We have two choices, imo, because we need to get another scanner:

1. We can have Vince try to revive RA. We don't know what the chances will be. If Vince is successful, however, RA may know the identity of one or more of the remaining spawn.

2. We can have Vince scan Penny, and then we kill RA. Penny has a very good chance of becoming a nurse in this case, and after Vince's scan he will be cleared (or he will be cured). In this case, we get Penny as another scanner.

My gut tells me to go for option 2. Barkeep hasn't told us what the chance on the cure RA would be. It feels like a bird in the hand is better than two birds in the bush. I'd rather have the higher percentage chance at knowing I will end up with another scanner.

[hoopsguy]

Penny, can you confirm this as well?

[Vince]

Hoops, you have done a pretty good job of setting me up to be the bad guy. This worries me. Especially because you were attacked last night. It could be an awfully good set-up move...the 'attack' legitimizes you, while I'm now damned if I do, damned if I don't -- I want to bring RA back, but if I fail in my attempt, it sounds like the entire ship is ready to cry for my head. I don't want to out and out accuse you of anything, because you'd be a big loss for the survivors at this point...but I'm concerned.

I think killing RA is a terrible idea -- why not ration him water? He is one person that we are absolutely sure is cured (I thought I was in that camp, but apparently hoops and others are convinced otherwise), and he might even have knowlege about the spawn that we are still fighting to find. Instead of blindly accusing people for less-than-conclusive evidence, we could have a head start pointing us right at someone. Yes, attempting to cure RA does nothing to quell the suspicions of me that are growing at an alarming rate...but I was pretty sure that I had convinced everyone that I am doing everything I can to help the survivors. If it comes down to it, I am perfectly willing to run the risk of a stigma against me because I might fail a roll to save Raiders Army -- I think bringing him around is the best course of action right now.

Like I have mentioned earlier, however -- even if I have been turned, there is at least another spawn out there. We are taking time arguing about how I might be a bad guy, when we know there is at least one other bad guy out there. I don't want to say it's wasted time, because like you mentioned, if I were a bad guy it'd be a really difficult thing to figure out. But I do know my role, and if I had been infected by RA, I would have been happy to scan myself the next day to clean the infection -- I've done it already this game, and I wouldn't have minded doing it again.

I would love to run out your scenario on Pennywisesb -- I want to be cleared again just as much as you all want me to be. I'm not arguing against that course of action because I don't want it to come to pass...I'm arguing against it because I think that it really hinders us in the effort to find other Spawn. If I can bring RA around, we don't NEED to promote Pennywise, and we might even find out the Spawn right off the bat.

[jeff061]

I agree, I'm rather hesitant to revive RA without knowing what the roll is.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Also, it seems like an appropriate time to do this:

I am part of the Absolute Trust. I have a connection with some other crew members on board. However, the only one I've been able to identify yet is pennywiseb. He is not a spawn.

I was going to save this, but since you outed me, I might as well come clean as well. I know that Bek is also part of the absolute trust as well (at least he's the only one I've been able to identify). I didn't know KWit was part of it until he just posted this.

[RealDeal]

There is a very good chance that if the Nurse dies that the medic will become the nurse.

How good is the chance of reviving RA? Is it also "very good"?

[RealDeal]

How do you learn someone is part of absolute trust?

[jeff061]

If we kill off Raider tonight that's one less night we have to lynch a "best guess". We are running out of time. We have 3 more lynch votes remaining, correct? Hacking off 33% doesn't appeal to me that much.

That said, I wish I knew the chances of reviving Raider.

[hoopsguy]

Vince, hopefully I'm alive tomorrow for you (or the nurse, whoever that is) to scan me to quell any fears I might be raising by questioning you. One way or another it sounds like we are both are moving towards escalated suspicion of each other. That doens't help the cause if we are both survivors.

I'm only in favor of rationing water to RA if we:
1.) Decide to try and bring him back today (I think it is a good option, just trying to decide if it is the best option)
2.) Can somehow promote Pennywise without having to kill RA first

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

How do you learn someone is part of absolute trust?

Barkeep has been sending out PMs.

[Passacaglia]

This doesn't seem like the definition of absolute trust at all.

[RealDeal]

All the absolute trust people should come forward and give the names of any other members of the group they know of. This is valuable info, and no one should be sitting on it at this point of the game.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

This doesn't seem like the definition of absolute trust at all.

True, but the definition of the trust is very vague, and evidently no one from the trust has become a spawn.


Rule:
Absolute Trust If anyone in an Absolute Trust group has left the group (by becoming Spawnling or Spawn), the other group members will be informed of it.

[Passacaglia]

Hmm, so you think that Barkeep is sending out PMs since people are whiney about not knowing their secret role?

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

This doesn't seem like the definition of absolute trust at all.

What do you mean?

BTW, as absolute trust, Bek, KWit, and I would know if any one of us was converted. So, basically, you all can be rest assured that we are all survivors. But I would welcome that scan today because I think its very important to have two people with the ability to scan.

At this point, my circle of trust includes: Bek (who's never here), Kwit, and myself. I want to believe Vince, but I'm getting really annoyed with his ideas of voting me off to be honest.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Hmm, so you think that Barkeep is sending out PMs since people are whiney about not knowing their secret role?

No. They came before that.

[hoopsguy]

So I'm trying to figure out what my secret role is at this point by reviewing what has been revealed:
1.) Slayer? Would Barkeep have kept this one hidden this far into game? Doubtful.
2.) Empathic - only if MrWednesday is lying. Think this is very doubtful. MrW used this ability to help nail the Hive Mind.
3.) Gut Feeling - already claimed by Blade. Have never gotten 2-4 votes throughout a day to test this
4.) Incorruptible - not if Blade is to be believed, as I did not vote for him and he said that one of the people who voted for him was Incorruptible
5.) Light sleeper - based on the attack on me last night, it was indicated that I do not possess this ability
6.) Miracle worker - already used by Ardent
7.) Vigilante - only if Jeff is lying
8.) Duplicant - only if RealDeal was lying, and his actions do not suggest this was the case. Again, this role was used to help nail Dubb
9.) Absolute Trust - have not received any PM on this

So it appears I have no secret role forthcoming, if everyone is telling the truth about their role. Since everyone has a secret role, this should not be the case. Or unless I'm part of an Absolute Trust and have yet to be informed of this.

Barkeep, are there duplicates of any of the Secret Roles outside of Absolute Trust? Or is each of them unique?

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

All the absolute trust people should come forward and give the names of any other members of the group they know of. This is valuable info, and no one should be sitting on it at this point of the game.

If we could have sat on this longer, and waited until our numbers were less, the percentages of finding out who was spawn and who wasn't would have gone up. At this point, I know of the three I listed and I'm hesitant to think there are any more involved. It would be nice if Bek would come forward and say which one of us he know's as being part of the trust as well.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

I want to believe Vince, but I'm getting really annoyed with his ideas of voting me off to be honest.

That's why I came forward. Vince is pretty trustworthy right now, IMO, and he has thrown some suspician your way. So I wanted to try to quell that if possible.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Barkeep, are there duplicates of any of the Secret Roles outside of Absolute Trust? Or is each of them unique?

All survivor secret roles may have duplicates and all players have a secret role.

[Vince]

I've been throwing suspicion at pennywise for days, KWhit

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Vince

I've been throwing suspicion at pennywise for days, KWhit

I know, but it didn't seem like anyone was listening to you.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Vince

I've been throwing suspicion at pennywise for days, KWhit

I understand what KWit was doing. I wasn't going to out anyone until one of us came close to being voted off. You kept throwing suspicion my way, but no one ever jumped on the bandwagon so I wasn't in any immediate danger. I wanted to try to save our roles until we could get the # of people lower because then our odds of taking down a spawn with our lynch votes would go up.

[jeff061]

Well I think the outing of the trust right now is good. Should help for rationing and of course increases our odds of voting correctly.

We need to pick someone to vote off tonight. It seems Lathum is now the current hot pick...

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I know, but it didn't seem like anyone was listening to you.

I was listening...I just didn't know what to do about it!

[Vince]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I know, but it didn't seem like anyone was listening to you.

That seems to be the case often in these games. I need to get better at subtle hints, I guess? Because the overt ones (ie "I think pennywisesb is spawn, so I vote pennywise") get completely missed often.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Vince

That seems to be the case often in these games. I need to get better at subtle hints, I guess? Because the overt ones (ie "I think pennywisesb is spawn, so I vote pennywise") get completely missed often.

LMAO.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Well I think the outing of the trust right now is good. Should help for rationing and of course increases our odds of voting correctly.

That was part of my thinking too. We need to be smart about rationing, so the more information we have the better.

[Vince]

Well, I have to go to work soon. I'll probably leave in about 15 minutes. I'll be gone all day, as I have luxury box tix to the Giants game tonight.

[RealDeal]

Should Vince go on and scan someone then?

[Poli]

I'm keeping my vote for Raiders Army. We absolutely have to vote someone out. I am more than willing to change this vote should something come to light.

[jeff061]

I'd think so.

[hoopsguy]

Who do you trust? I've got four categories for my analysis, but they are not weighted within these categories (#1 high is not necessarily trusted more than #3 high, for example)

Absolute
1.) Hoopsguy - I know I've been a survivor from the outset and remain so now.

High
1.) Ardent - arguments made above. Also cast tie-breaker vote to hang a spawn on Day 1.
2.) RealDeal - contributed to taking down Dubb, never at risk on Away Teams
3.) MrWednesday - contributed to taking down Dubb, never at risk on Away Teams
4.) Vince - actions have been pro-survivor all the way
5.) Raiders Army - I believe that Raiders can be cured, is not somehow a lurking spawn
6.) Jeff - some correlation between him and Fouts in terms of vigilante/spy activities. No one has called him out on Vigilante role, which was revealed post-LiftOff
7.) Schmidty - cleared by Vince
8.) Passacaglia - cleared by RealDeal

Medium
1.) KWhit - never scanned, two chances to have been converted on Away Teams, not exactly taking chances with his voting up to this point. Higher trust level if the Absolute Trust people all clear each other.
2.) Saldana - cast very late vote to tie Schmidty with MarcV. Not much info to work with up to this point.
3.) Bek - inactive, but invoked in the Absolute Trust. Why is he exhausted today?
4.) Pennywise - was in brig with Vince when he was attacked by 2-3 spawn. Vouched for by KWhit in Absolute Trust
5.) Fouts - had some information on Jeff that seems consistent with a spy role. But also went after Vince hard during Dubb vote.

Low
1.) Lathum - not using his interrogation option, inactive throughout the game
2.) MrBug - inactive, not much info to work with.
3.) SnDvls - I worry that he did not arm Fouts/Schmidty on the night that I was attacked when phasers only help with defense, not with offense (unless I'm missing somethinig in the rules)
4.) Blade - went after Vince hard, his story about secret role blocks two different ones for me when I don't have a known role at this point

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I'm keeping my vote for Raiders Army. We absolutely have to vote someone out. I am more than willing to change this vote should something come to light.

This does us no good except waste a vote. We are better off randomly picking someone not in the trust. He's not getting water so he does no negative effect on us.

[RealDeal]

Just scan someone who hasnt been cleared and doesn't claim to be in the circle of trust: bug, sndlvs, lathum, blade, fouts and hoops are in that group. Probably some others too.

[Vince]

Well, I have to go get showered and such, so I just sent in my day action.

I have bit the bullet, and decided to attempt to bring RA out of his coma. With all the suspicion around me, this probably isn't the greatest move -- but I truly believe it is the correct course of action.

We'll see what happens -- I probably won't be able to let you guys know about my results, though Barkeep's description should tell you all you'd need to know.

[hoopsguy]

We definitely need Vince to scan someone before he leaves.

Enjoy the game. I'm missing Cubs tonight (bleachers) because I'm home sick.

[RealDeal]

Originally Posted by Vince

Well, I have to go get showered and such, so I just sent in my day action.

I have bit the bullet, and decided to attempt to bring RA out of his coma. With all the suspicion around me, this probably isn't the greatest move -- but I truly believe it is the correct course of action.

We'll see what happens -- I probably won't be able to let you guys know about my results, though Barkeep's description should tell you all you'd need to know.

uck

[jeff061]

We just need to keep in mind I cleared Fouts claim that he was spying, which I can think he can do as Spawn. Not sure why he'd want to though.

Your list sums up my views pretty well though. Even If I put you somewhere between low and medium .

[pennywisesb]

We really NEED to vote someone off today. I'm curious why Lathum hasn't used his ability.