Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[Neon_Chaos]

It's amazing that only 3 faces won in their matches at WM this year.

[Neon_Chaos]

Well, 4, if you count Kane. But we can't, really.

[DeToxRox]

Ric Flair tribute on RAW tonight. JJ Dillon and Tully are at the arena, and Windham and Double A work for the company so expect the 2nd best incarnation of the Horsemen together tonight

[molson]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

so expect the 2nd best incarnation of the Horsemen together tonight

That's not possible if Paul Roma's not in the building.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Let the booing begin (aka Cena opens the show) ... err, maybe not.
(they played Cena's intro then followed it with HHH's)
eh ... maybe not that either, 'cause now it's Orton's music and Orton.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I don't think we're watching the same Cena, because I totally and utterly disagree. Maybe I'm not cool enough, and should spend more time on wrestling messageboards so that I can "learn" what is good and bad. Until then, I'll judge for myself.

I will say one thing: Turning him heel would be a great idea. I think all of the enlightened experts in the crowd booing him would be so confused, that their heads would explode.

The percentage of "smarks" at WWE house shows is tiny. You can't blame it on the message board smarks. I've been to a ton of shows, and I can bet that 99% of them don't go any deeper than wwe.com

Problem is that they pushed him in a way that the fans did not accept. And when they didn't accept his "face rapper" gimmick they booed him. And when they didn't accept his "marine" gimmick they booed him. And then he got more serious and his wrestling skills kept developing ... he does have charisma and does deserve to be a main event player. But the crowd still feels bitter about things and chooses to continue booing him.

Don't hate the fans just because they have an opinion. I'd much rather the crowd have a say as to who they cheer and who they jeer, rather then being mindless sheep that cheer for whoever McMahon says to. Thankfully that's not the case, otherwise Bobby Lashley would be the WWE champ with Great Khalil as the #1 contender.

[JonInMiddleGA]

LMAO, Khali confronts Big Show, crowd follows the obligatory "You can't wrestle" chant with "Show's gonna kill you" (ala Samoa Joe).

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Mota

Don't hate the fans just because they have an opinion. I'd much rather the crowd have a say as to who they cheer and who they jeer, rather then being mindless sheep that cheer for whoever McMahon says to. Thankfully that's not the case, otherwise Bobby Lashley would be the WWE champ with Great Khalil as the #1 contender.

Generally, I agree with you. But in the case of Cena, the whole booing thing really feels like its on the same level as fans still yelling "what?" during interviews. It's something people feel like they're supposed to do, even though they don't know why.

[DeToxRox]

Big Show seems like he'd be cool as hell to go party with.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

But in the case of Cena, the whole booing thing really feels like its on the same level as fans still yelling "what?" during interviews. It's something people feel like they're supposed to do, even though they don't know why.

I tend to agree with this take, based on the anecdotal evidence of never having met a single non-smark who actively disliked Cena.

[DeToxRox]

dola

Cena has become "cool" to boo as has been said above. The guy is as competent in the ring as Rock or Austin in their peak runs in the WWF. He has good Main Event brawls and is amazing as a face in peril. What more can you ask of a guy? The crowd is ALWAYS reacting, whether good or bad. It isn't like they just don't care like what happened during Ortons first title run.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Big Show seems like he'd be cool as hell to go party with.

I really have to hand it to the guy, I think he's developed his non-ring abilities about as much as any worker I can recall watching. Where he is now in terms of acting ability (for lack of a better catch all phrase) versus where he started borders on amazing to me. And by the accounts I've read it's very intentional on his part & the result of no small amount of effort.

[DeToxRox]

LOL!

Santino is fucking amazing.

[CU Tiger]

4-Horsemen
For all of mcMahon's screw ups
They got this right

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm 'bout ready to squall like his daughter did last night.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Either live or on tape, every living NWA World Champion from '81 to '91 has appeared except Sting, Tatsumi Fujinami, and Ron Garvin.

[Rich1033]

Really a great showing for Ric Flair. Perfectly done.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Either live or on tape, every living NWA World Champion from '81 to '91 has appeared except Sting, Tatsumi Fujinami, and Ron Garvin.

Though we did see the Garvin stomp earlier.

Unbelievable segment.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Either live or on tape, every living NWA World Champion from '81 to '91 has appeared except Sting, Tatsumi Fujinami, and Ron Garvin.

That's awesome. I might have to see if they have a west coast feed. Haven't watched wrestling in years, but I can probably count the number of Saturday night shows I missed on channel 17 from 1982 or so to 1990 on one hand.

[molson]

Originally Posted by digamma

That's awesome. I might have to see if they have a west coast feed. Haven't watched wrestling in years, but I can probably count the number of Saturday night shows I missed on channel 17 from 1982 or so to 1990 on one hand.

RAW airs on tape 9-11 on the west coast, so you have plenty of time to check it out.

[VPI97]

I haven't paid a lot of attention to wrestling for a while, but I had to tune in tonight to see Flair...can someone tell me the connection between him and a few of the guys that came out though? Specifically, Batista, Cena & Jericho....recent angles? or just backstage friends?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

4-Horsemen
For all of mcMahon's screw ups
They got this right

Agreed, very nice send off for the Nature Boy.......Made me feel old though.

The only guy missing was Dusty Rhodes.

[molson]

Originally Posted by VPI97

I haven't paid a lot of attention to wrestling for a while, but I had to tune in tonight to see Flair...can someone tell me the connection between him and a few of the guys that came out though? Specifically, Batista, Cena & Jericho....recent angles? or just backstage friends?

Batista: A member of the "evolution" stable, a modern knock-off of the four horseman than included Flair, Batista, Orton, and HHH. In storylines, Flair has remained an occasional mentor of Batista.

Cena: The theme was "people wanting to say thank you", so it made sense for the current biggest star in the WWE to do so. One thing I like about Cena is his ability to pull that spot off without making the moment about him.

Y2J: Not sure. That was the one that seemed off. I guess the WWE just wanted to make him seem like a big star.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by molson

Batista: A member of the "evolution" stable, a modern knock-off of the four horseman than included Flair, Batista, Orton, and HHH. In storylines, Flair has remained an occasional mentor of Batista.

Cena: The theme was "people wanting to say thank you", so it made sense for the current biggest star in the WWE to do so. One thing I like about Cena is his ability to pull that spot off without making the moment about him.

Y2J: Not sure. That was the one that seemed off. I guess the WWE just wanted to make him seem like a big star.

I forget what exactly it is with Y2J but there is a personal relationship there,

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Batista: A member of the "evolution" stable, a modern knock-off of the four horseman than included Flair, Batista, Orton, and HHH. In storylines, Flair has remained an occasional mentor of Batista.

Flair also made mention of Batista over the weekend, saying something to the effect that now that he (Flair) is on the straight & narrow that he lives vicariously through Batista.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Probably lost in all the different great sights & scenes during the Flair tribute was Randy Orton standing off to the side of the front row of guys who came down to ringside, wiping away tears. I don't think we were supposed to see him there (since it was so completely out of kayfabe) but I'm glad I noticed it. Kind of gives me hope that he's matured over the past couple of years.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by molson

Y2J: Not sure. That was the one that seemed off. I guess the WWE just wanted to make him seem like a big star.

Considering Jericho had been working with Flair for a good decade or so, I think that there's a personal relationship there.

[Neon_Chaos]

"I'm sorry... I love you."

Match of the night, and, IMHO, made the entire evening worth the money.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

dola

Cena has become "cool" to boo as has been said above. The guy is as competent in the ring as Rock or Austin in their peak runs in the WWF. He has good Main Event brawls and is amazing as a face in peril. What more can you ask of a guy? The crowd is ALWAYS reacting, whether good or bad. It isn't like they just don't care like what happened during Ortons first title run.

I personally think that the fan resentment on Cena started when he jumped from Smackdown to RAW in 2005. Cena had a great title chase against JBL in 2005, and won the title on Wrestlemania, he was completely over with the fans and was definitely a fan favorite.

The problem with him jumping to RAW was that he suddenly was put into an environment where there were two or three legit Title contenders in the brand. He was the big fish on Smackdown, but on Raw, there was a lot of competition. It didn't help that he held on to the title until January of 2006. For a face to hold on to that title for that long with a lot of contenders was unprecedented, not since Hogan's time. They tried to recapture that Hogan run and failed miserably.

Most smarky fans started turning against him and rooting for Triple H and Edge. Afterall, the best thing in wrestling is all about the Title chase. Most of the fans who grew up to Austin and Rock aren't conditioned to watch a face champion thwart challenge after challenge. He usually gets screwed out of the title, or turns heel, or something. He doesn't remain a face and hold on to the title for that long. (Austin and The Rock's title reigns were about 3 to 5 months each, and they always were screwed out of the title (Austin) or turned heel (Rock)).

See how the fans reacted when Edge screwed Cena out of the title in his match against RVD. That's what he needed more of.

Fans will always love the chase, and will eventually turn against any face champion if he holds a title for that long. Unfortunately, Cena hasn't recovered from that "hate" stigma because during the past year someone else has a better case as a face chasing the title (HHH) and the heel champion doesn't really face as much of a challenge since Cena's beaten him time and again before succumbing to an injury. (Orton)

I doubt that the 'E cares much about how the fans react to Cena, since his reactions are always money (the boos aren't XPac heat, and the cheers aren't all just babyface pops)

Despite the major improvements to his repertoire, mic skills, and in-ring psychology, I do think that Cena's entire gimmick is getting stale. He's either been the unbeatable face champ, or the guy chasing after the weak heel. Personally, I think that Cena needs a solid heel turn (which, in my opinion, would be the best choice if they weren't pushing Orton already), or to stay out of the title picture for a while until a legitimate, bad-ass, you can't beat me on your best day, "the fans are all clamoring for me to lose this belt because they want to see you win" type of heel shows up (a heel HHH circa 2004 or JBL circa 2005).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I think that Cena needs a solid heel turn

The other problem with that right now is that he's headed off to work on a new movie, and I don't believe they're going to handicap that project by having it star a heel (as Rock pointed out, they're having enough trouble already )

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The other problem with that right now is that he's headed off to work on a new movie, and I don't believe they're going to handicap that project by having it star a heel (as Rock pointed out, they're having enough trouble already )

That's true.

But who would want to watch John Cena in a movie anyway?



























Of course, I watched the Marine.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Of course, I watched the Marine.

Lord that movie sucked....of course, I watched it too.

CENA: IT'S MY WIFE!!!

CENA: THEY'VE GOT MY WIFE!!

CENA: I'VE GOT TO GET MY WIFE!!

ME: Zzzzzzz

...and what the hell was the bit with the guy and his 'rock candy'? Did Vince McMahon write that script?

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

But who would want to watch John Cena in a movie anyway? [/size]

My wife.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Lord that movie sucked....of course, I watched it too.

CENA: IT'S MY WIFE!!!

CENA: THEY'VE GOT MY WIFE!!

CENA: I'VE GOT TO GET MY WIFE!!

ME: Zzzzzzz

...and what the hell was the bit with the guy and his 'rock candy'? Did Vince McMahon write that script?

And it was 70% of John Cena running.

And of course, Terminator jokes.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Former WCW wrestler Hardbody Harrison sentenced to life in prison for running a prostitution ring.

Former pro-wrestler Harrison "Hardbody" Norris Jr. was sentenced Tuesday to life in prison, one of the harshest punishments ever handed down in a U.S. human trafficking case.

A jury convicted Norris, 42, on 24 counts in November, including forced labor, sex trafficking, peonage, aggravated sexual assault, witness tampering and obstruction. Norris targeted women who were homeless, addicted to drugs or in trouble with the law, luring them into his two Cartersville homes with the promise of a pro wrestling career. Instead, prosecutors say, he whipped them into shape for commercial sex.

U.S. District Judge Jack Camp said that although Norris' victims "weren't tied, chained or kept in the basement," he controlled them through psychological means. "Quite frankly," Camp said, "you seem to have a better understanding of psychology than most psychologists I've known."

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Former WCW wrestler Hardbody Harrison sentenced to life in prison for running a prostitution ring.

Former pro-wrestler Harrison "Hardbody" Norris Jr. was sentenced Tuesday to life in prison, one of the harshest punishments ever handed down in a U.S. human trafficking case.

A jury convicted Norris, 42, on 24 counts in November, including forced labor, sex trafficking, peonage, aggravated sexual assault, witness tampering and obstruction. Norris targeted women who were homeless, addicted to drugs or in trouble with the law, luring them into his two Cartersville homes with the promise of a pro wrestling career. Instead, prosecutors say, he whipped them into shape for commercial sex.

U.S. District Judge Jack Camp said that although Norris' victims "weren't tied, chained or kept in the basement," he controlled them through psychological means. "Quite frankly," Camp said, "you seem to have a better understanding of psychology than most psychologists I've known."

What a great word.
That is all.

[molson]

Check out the ridiculous overrun rating for RAW.

9:00 - 3.87
9:15 - 3.71
9:30 - 3.76
9:45 - 3.75
10:00 - 3.94
10:15 - 3.97
10:30 - 3.87
10:45 - 3.99
Overrun - 4.70

What a home run of a segment.

[Maple Leafs]

This could be interesting...

Originally Posted by Dave Meltzer

Fox 5 in Atlanta tonight had as one of its lead stories, an item about a man who moved into a home he had just purchased from a WWE wrestler (whose name was not identified in the story).

He found who shoe boxes filled with steroids and Growth Hormone in a crawl space in the wall along with a copy of the wrestlers current contract and a memo regarding changes in te dress code.

They announced they weren't releasing the name of the wrestler who just moved until they spoke with him first.

[Fidatelo]

How does a guy forget his stash like that? Maybe this wrestler needs to smoke some weed and become a little more paranoid...

[JonInMiddleGA]

The wrestler involved is being identified as Mike Knox, and based upon a dress code memo found inside one of the boxes, the stash appears to have been placed there sometime in 2004 (prior to the implementation of the wellness policy).
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/15815942/detail.html

[Maple Leafs]

That sort of name was pretty much the best case scenario for the WWE.

[saldana]

who the hell is mike knox

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by saldana

who the hell is mike knox

Made his debut on ECW in June 06 as Kelly Kelly's boyfriend & had a fruitless mini-feud with CM Punk. Was sent back to developmental in Spring '07 and returned to ECW in Fall '07, and has basically been around .500 in meaningless midcard matches since then, most recently splitting a pair vs Stevie Richards with a win for Knox on April 1st.

[molson]

Originally Posted by saldana

who the hell is mike knox

HBK hilariously wondered the same thing at the '06 Survivor Series:

(Watch 1:10 to 1:35)

[DeToxRox]

This is written by Tracy Smothers ex-wife ..


When I decided to end my four year relationship with Tracy Smothers I ordered a three month supply of all his medications before I took him off my insurance.
I also made sure he would have the COBRA forms to be able to extend his insurance.

After I moved out of our home I left all his things in a storage closet in the back of our townhouse for his friend to pick up for him. His friend did that but Tracy has not bothered to go get anything from him.
That means he has none of his medications or the paperwork that he needed to extend his insurance.

I found out yesterday that Tracy has not taken his medicine in close to a month.
He is taking borrowed blood pressure pills and what he called nerve pills. He is still getting drunk every Monday and smoking pot daily.

I know for a fact that he has been having mini strokes since early Christmas morning.
It's happened to him in the ring and when he has been driving to shows.
He told me himself that he had one over a week ago and in the car on Saturday.
They are getting more frequent because he is off his seizure medication.

He has brain damage and post concusssion syndrome to the point where his neurologists told him that he should have gotten out of the ring ten years ago.

Anyone who steps into the ring with him is now taking their life in their own hands.
Any promoter who would consider booking him for a show is insane unless they want to see him die in their ring.

When Tracy is off his medications he is delusional, irrational, and has violent blackouts as well as the seizures and mini strokes.

Without his mediciations he will be the next Chris Benoit!

I got out because I refuse to wind up like Nancy.

If anyone sees him in public or at a show please encourage him to go get his medications that I have already paid for.
His friend has them waiting for him here in Nashville.

I am curently writing a book on dealing with his insanity. I just hope he lives until it is ready to go to press.
It will be a miracle if he survives much longer.

For more information about that please visit my website at http://www.reneepayne.com

I plan on donating most of the profits from the book to the
Nancy and Daniel Benoit Foundation for Abused Women and Children in Atlanta.

I'm not posting this to be mean or spiteful. I am trying to save his life!

Please feel free to repost this information on as many websites as possible.
Tracy has given his life to the wrestling business and now has absolutely nothing to show for it in return.
If anyone cares about saving his life please get him to start taking his medication and get out of the ring for good.

The wrestling business does not need the stigma of yet another untimely death.

Thank You!

Renee Payne

[saldana]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Made his debut on ECW in June 06 as Kelly Kelly's boyfriend & had a fruitless mini-feud with CM Punk. Was sent back to developmental in Spring '07 and returned to ECW in Fall '07, and has basically been around .500 in meaningless midcard matches since then, most recently splitting a pair vs Stevie Richards with a win for Knox on April 1st.

can you tell i dont watch ECW?

[DeToxRox]

LOL .. Spoiler for SD on Friday from PWI..

Smackdown opened with Great Khali coming out with his Indian dancers. Big Show comes out and Khali welcomes him with gifts, including a goat, a chicken and fine scotch. Big Show proceeds to knockout Khali with one punch. "It was truly one of the worst in ring segments of all time."

[JonInMiddleGA]

Nice little senton off the top of the cage by Curry Man onto Creed & Devine to open TNA Lockdown.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Lethal retains with assists from SoCal Val and Sonjay Dutt, escaping through the door while Devine was still climbing down the cage.

So the inevitable Dutt heel turn will continue to play out slowly I guess.

edit: Roxxi wins the Queen of the Cage over Angelina Love. Very short brawl portion to get into the ring, fairly short match too.

edit 2 & 3 & 4: What a shock (not) -- Super Eric wins the tag team handcuff match after being beaten down by Rhodes & Rellik backstage ... Gail & ODB win over Kong & Saeed, after Kong clobbered her partner accidentally ... Sharmell pins Banks after she accidentally slapped the taste out of Roode's mouth. Booker recovers from being tossed face first into the cage in time to celebrate. (whoopedy f'n do)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Team Cage wins the Lethal Lockdown as Rhino gores Storm, who had just laid out Morgan with a beer bottle. Spot of the match was on top of the cage, where AJ & Cage both came off a ladder through a table. Probably wasn't as spectacular a spot as they were hoping for in the end but the setup for it was pretty impressive to see (not to mention f'n nuts).

Most impressive thing about the match? The fact that they avoided taking the obvious route & having someone turn.