2012 NFL Offseason thread

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Justin Blackmon arrested for DUI in Oklahoma

Justin Blackmon's blood alcohol was three times limit - NFL.com

Why the long face, Justin?

Oh. You got busted for a DUI? Nevermind.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

And, of course, Vilma walked out of the hearing today.

Jonathan Vilma of New Orleans Saints leaves hearing, calls process unfair - ESPN

Yep, let's not go to the NFL to discuss the case prior to the punishments, let's throw a tantrum when you do get punished, let's sue everyone in sight and let's walk out of the appeals hearing calling the process you approved just last year "unfair". No one will see through your sham attempts at obfuscation! Not at all!

Give the Steelers' players credit. They were the only team that wouldn't approve the CBA simply due to the disciplinary process. At least they had the balls to stand up then and say it wasn't right. But the Saints' players voted for it then, so shut up about it now.

Given that the released evidence last Friday included a blog post and newspaper article written months after the investigation concluded, I'm not sure I'd believe Goodell if he said the sky was blue. Apparently those billions the NFL is making is being used for time travel.

I hope it goes to court just so he has to release what he has and this wasn't him picking an object lesson to make it look like he gives two shits about player safety with a giant class action lawsuit over his head.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Given that the released evidence last Friday included a blog post and newspaper article written months after the investigation concluded, I'm not sure I'd believe Goodell if he said the sky was blue. Apparently those billions the NFL is making is being used for time travel.

I hope it goes to court just so he has to release what he has and this wasn't him picking an object lesson to make it look like he gives two shits about player safety with a giant class action lawsuit over his head.

Just play the Gregg Williams recording over and over, that ought to be plenty of evidence.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Given that the released evidence last Friday included a blog post and newspaper article written months after the investigation concluded, I'm not sure I'd believe Goodell if he said the sky was blue. Apparently those billions the NFL is making is being used for time travel.

I hope it goes to court just so he has to release what he has and this wasn't him picking an object lesson to make it look like he gives two shits about player safety with a giant class action lawsuit over his head.

I fucking hate Goodell. The QB on my team was suspended for 6 games (originally) based on an accusation with not even enough evidence for probable cause whereas other players drive drunk, kill people and don't get as many games. My team had the first player suspended for an action during the play in the last 20 years. It's ok if a Patriots player uses his head purposely like a torpedo, but shit if our guy doesn't sit for a week on a bang-bang play where the hit he put on the QB was legal 1/2 of a second earlier. Goodell is a fuck who I believe doesn't give two shits about the players and is absolutely making a big stink about the bounties to try to sway public opinion in advance of the concussion lawsuits.

That being said, the players haven't cooperated in the least. We know they lied. We know they refused to come to the NFL even after being asked before the punishment was handed down. We know the Saints players ratified the CBA. Now they're walking out of the appeals process less than an hour into the meeting. There hasn't been a Saints player yet who has categorically denied being part of the bounty program. Every denial has been along the lines of "prove that someone got hurt", "prove that someone got paid for injuring someone else", "prove that I put money in the system to get someone hurt", "we were just doing what the coaches told us to do" and so forth. It's all been a semantic dance and a whole lot of bullshit.

Fuck them for making me defend Goodell, but he's in the right here. The NFL doesn't want to reveal all of the evidence because that could hinder cooperation in future investigations. The players know this and that's why they're doing what they're doing rather than going through the system. They regret giving Goodell the power and they want to destroy the system. That's why there's all this semantic bullshit going on. They hope to change the appeals process in the CBA even after signing on to it.

My opinion is that if Vilma does go to court and the NFL has to reveal everything (and I believe they have enough on him), they should ban that fucker for life.

[RedKingGold]

Tell us how you feel. Really, don't hold anything back.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Tell us how you feel. Really, don't hold anything back.

Sorry RKG, I'm just getting rather annoyed with the semantic games these players are playing. If/when they decide to go to court, guys like Loomis, Payton and Williams are going to bury them (never mind the written proof which I believe exists). That's the showdown the NFL is trying to avoid, because if Vitt/Loomis/Payton/Williams have to testify, it will end their careers as no player would play for those guys again. But if they lie, they're out of the league. The NFL doesn't want to totally destroy the careers of these guys (though Williams is probably done in the NFL - expect to see him in college in a couple of years), but that's what is going to happen.

Because the players don't care and so that's the course of action they're undertaking. They believe that the NFL won't bring this to a head and ruin those careers, so they're playing chicken with Goodell on this. I bet if they had shut up and followed the process, all of their suspensions would have been cut in half. But no, they're willing to jeopardize the careers of their current and former bosses on a hunch the NFL will blink first. But the NFL won't - they never have and never will because there's too much money and power at stake.

That's why I'm so annoyed. I don't believe they're not guilty for one second and I firmly believe that they're trying to make this a power play. If someone was innocent, don't you think they'd have flown to NYC when Goodell was working on this to talk about it? Even just to say, "Hey, Roger, I wasn't involved in anything that rewarded injuries"? No, their tactic all along has been to stonewall and obfuscate - which is a dead giveaway regarding their involvement.

[Julio Riddols]

After watching Fujita work real hard to remember the script when he talked with the media, I tend to agree on his guilt.

[Julio Riddols]

I also pretty heartily disagree that this is going to cost these guys much in the way of future job opportunities or their ability to provide for their families. What is going to cost them is their being seen as litigious liars.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

It's ok if a Patriots player uses his head purposely like a torpedo

Well, he did get a big fine and was cut.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Well, he did get a big fine and was cut.

And what of the one with the sweet SNF gig?

[oykib]

I still have a problem with a system that finds its way to give an equal punishment to the most culpable player and the head coach. How Vilma is getting twice as much time as the GM also bothers me.

This like in "A Few Good Men" if the two enlisted guys wound up with the same punishment as Jack Nicholson and Kiefer Sutherland.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by oykib

I still have a problem with a system that finds its way to give an equal punishment to the most culpable player and the head coach. How Vilma is getting twice as much time as the GM also bothers me.

This like in "A Few Good Men" if the two enlisted guys wound up with the same punishment as Jack Nicholson and Kiefer Sutherland.

He's getting the same time as the coach and less time than the assistant coach. So your beef is that Loomis didn't get the same amount of time as all of those guys?

[Blackadar]

From Peter King this morning:

• The testimony from disgraced defensive coordinator Gregg Williams to the league, in which he said he knew the program "was rolling the dice with player safety and someone could have been maimed."
• The charge, from what the league said was a handwritten note from a Saints defensive coach, that the defense pledged $35,000 for a defender to knock Brett Favre out of the January 2010 NFC Championship Game -- including a $5,000 pledge to the kitty from current Saints interim coach Joe Vitt. (Vitt denies the charge.)
• The three sources the NFL claims to have who told league investigators linebacker Jonathan Vilma spurred the bounty on Favre by offering $10,000 himself during a night-before-the-game motivational speech by, as one of the sources said, "raising his hands, each of which held stacks of bills, that he had two 'five-stacks,''' to give to the player who knocked Favre from the game.
• The NFL Films-recorded quote from defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove, as first reported by SI in March, with Hargrove saying to defensive teammate Bobby McCray, "Give me my money,'' after Vitt told the team that Favre was out of the game with a leg injury. (Favre did return to the game without missing a play, but that wasn't apparent when Hargrove made his declaration to McCray.)
• The PowerPoint slide collected from a sweep of the Saints' computer system, from the night before the Saints' playoff loss at Seattle in January 2011, complete with a picture of TV bounty hunter Duane "Dog'' Chapman, that said, "Now is the time to do our job ... collect bounty $$$! No apologies! Let's go hunting!''
• The unending stream of evidence from Saints computers, which is going to create some very strange bedfellows inside the Saints' football facility ... seeing that the two-year sweep of the all Saints' e-mails and computer-generated PowerPoints was OK'd by owner Tom Benson, who helped seal the case against the four suspended players and three coaches and general manager Mickey Loomis by allowing forensics experts to search for incriminating electronic evidence against his employees.
• The ledger sheet from an October 2009 game that showed safety Roman Harper due $1,000 for a "cart-off'' of Giants running back Brandon Jacobs in the second quarter, forcing Jacobs to leave the field for several plays.

"Overwhelming evidence,'' White called what the league showed reporters in a 75-minute presentation.

Specious evidence, the attorney for Vilma said in the morning, when lawyer Peter Ginsberg and Vilma walked out of the proceedings. "There is no evidence, because there was no bounty system,'' he said.

Now does anyone believe the statement I've bolded? That Sean Payton, Joe Vitt, Micky Loomis, Tom Benson and Gregg Williams would just take their punishments without issue if there "was no bounty system". It's beyond belief.

[Thomkal]

Gregg Williams said the bounty program existed did he not? That's what bugs me about these players trying to deny it even existed when the guy who created it said it did exist.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Gregg Williams said the bounty program existed did he not? That's what bugs me about these players trying to deny it even existed when the guy who created it said it did exist.

Yep. And the guy took a possible lifetime suspension for it. He wouldn't do that if there was no bounty system.

[SirFozzie]

Yeah, the playrs are hoping to create a public outcry to get someone in to be an appeal from Goodell, but they have backed a losing horse here

Lord knows that I was on the players side during the strike, but man, you're denying the sky is blue here guys,. You've lost. Move on.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

From Peter King this morning:



Now does anyone believe the statement I've bolded? That Sean Payton, Joe Vitt, Micky Loomis, Tom Benson and Gregg Williams would just take their punishments without issue if there "was no bounty system". It's beyond belief.

That's some smoking-gun style evidence right there. Fuck all these players/coaches/executives. Kick them out for good.

[molson]

Sometimes you can win and trick everyone into thinking you're innocent just by attacking the process. I think that's the strategy here.

So few people are willing to just accept responsibility for mistakes, despite how much everyone respects them when they do. Even if you have a viable defense strategy, even if you have the lawyers, if even if you CAN fight it, for god's sake you don't always have to. Be a man.

[RomaGoth]

Hmmm. There was a time when I had respect for professional athletes (at least some of them). I actually believed that Drew Brees was intelligent. But after this ridiculous statement, I have my doubts.

Yes, getting paid to hurt other players is most definitely similar to finding nuclear weapons in a 3rd world country.

Why can't these guys just shut the fuck up already. Drew Brees, you sir are an idiot.

[jeff061]

What you don't remember when Saddam and baghdad bob all admitted to there being WMDs?

[Julio Riddols]

And then the top Iraqi suicide bombers involved all got suspended between 3 weeks and a year without bombs?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

And then the top Iraqi suicide bombers involved all got suspended between 3 weeks and a year without bombs?

Yep, although I would guess Bin Laden got the worse end of the deal in that suspension train...

[AlexB]

I would have thought the top suicide bombers couldn't have been suspended, only the rubbish ones?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

I would have thought the top suicide bombers couldn't have been suspended, only the rubbish ones?

Jonathan Vilma hates you.

[Logan]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter

Suspended DT Anthony Hargrove claims the audio released Monday of him saying, "Bobby, give me my money," was not his voice.

Good luck with that.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Logan

Good luck with that.

Nah, those weren't my lips that were moving!

NFL Videos: NFL reveals video evidence of Saints' 'bounty' program

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hargrove ain't exactly known as a brain surgeon

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Hargrove ain't exactly known as a brain surgeon

Actually....

School of Medicine at New Orleans



Foreground from left to right: Eric Knott, Zevie Davis,
Anthony Hargrove, Monica Ertel and Kris Sheets

[oykib]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

From Peter King this morning:



Now does anyone believe the statement I've bolded? That Sean Payton, Joe Vitt, Micky Loomis, Tom Benson and Gregg Williams would just take their punishments without issue if there "was no bounty system". It's beyond belief.

No. My problem is that any of the coaches/executives knew about the program, that their punishments should me more severe. The most severe punishments have to be at the top of the food chain. Either Payton or Loomis could have stopped the bounty system with a few words. Any player has to go against his coach, his organization and probably damage his teammates to stop it. He should have the courage to do it anyway. But you're asking a hell of a lot more from him.

There is also the secondary point that a top coach has a 30-40 year career in football. A top player has a 10-15 year career. A year for Payton is like two or three for Vilma.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Actually....

School of Medicine at New Orleans


Foreground from left to right: Eric Knott, Zevie Davis,
Anthony Hargrove, Monica Ertel and Kris Sheets

I can only assume he's there visiting friends (having been AI at Tech after one good season & then heading off to the NFL).

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by oykib

A top player has a 10-15 year career.

Unless they go into coaching...

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Actually....

School of Medicine at New Orleans



Foreground from left to right: Eric Knott, Zevie Davis,
Anthony Hargrove, Monica Ertel and Kris Sheets

Well hello Monica Ertel.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Well hello Monica Ertel.

+1

[RomaGoth]

You're welcome for the next Hot or Not!

[oykib]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Unless they go into coaching...

That's a totally different career.

I see this as something akin to being given an unlawful order in the military. The soldier has the right and duty to refuse. If he's caught, he gets punished. However, modern societies have realized that the lion's share of the blame for soldiers carrying out unlawful orders lies with the superior that gave those instructions.

One could see Vilma as the sergeant in this scenario. He has more responsibility than the players beneath him. But he received those orders from those who bear more responsibility still. I suppose one could make the argument that Loomis is so far removed that even though he's ultimately responsible for the team, he had no intimate knowledge of what was going on. But Payton had have known. There's no way any player that participated should get more severe sanctions, or even as severe.

[Scoobz0202]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Hmmm. There was a time when I had respect for professional athletes (at least some of them). I actually believed that Drew Brees was intelligent. But after this ridiculous statement , I have my doubts.

Yes, getting paid to hurt other players is most definitely similar to finding nuclear weapons in a 3rd world country. :confuse:
Why can't these guys just shut the fuck up already. Drew Brees, you sir are an idiot.

Im on my phone right now so i cant source this, but i recall Brees saying something in the past that had me questioning his intelligence. I could be wrong though. I think he is fairly conservative so it may have just been a personal belief that i disagreed with.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by oykib

One could see Vilma as the sergeant in this scenario. He has more responsibility than the players beneath him. But he received those orders from those who bear more responsibility still. I suppose one could make the argument that Loomis is so far removed that even though he's ultimately responsible for the team, he had no intimate knowledge of what was going on. But Payton had have known. There's no way any player that participated should get more severe sanctions, or even as severe.

I think Vilma is a bit of a special case. His "I'll give $10K to whoever knocks Favre out" bit is like the Lieutenant saying "clear that village, I know there are civilians in there" and then the Sergeant (Vilma in your case) saying "let's just frag the whole place". That immediately ups his culpability in the whole thing.

And let's not forget that the primary driver, Williams, did in fact get a higher punishment. Vilma is being punished like the Captain who refused to stop the Lieutenant, not the Lieutenant in your analogy.

[Arles]

Interesting blog on ESPN.com about the Hargrove situation:

Hargrove alleges game-changing error - NFC North Blog - ESPN

Go ahead and watch for yourself. You can see Hargrove's face at the right of the screen, and it appears he is speaking to defensive end Bobby McCray, who is not in the picture. You can see Hargrove say, "Bobby," but then he is obscured.

Hargrove wouldn't say who uttered the words, "give me my money." In the frame, you can see defensive tackle Remi Ayodele lean over to defensive lineman Will Smith and say something, but his back is to the camera.

Hargrove implied he will take measures to prove it was another player's voice, presumably through voice recognition software, and added: "I stake my life on the fact that it is not me."

If, in fact, someone other than Hargrove said those words, then the league would have made two important mistakes in claiming the video as evidence against Hargrove. As we discussed Monday night, it doesn't make sense that he would have sought bounty payment for a hit on Favre by two other players (McCray and Ayodele). Hargrove was called in the second quarter for unnecessary roughness after a hit on Favre, but no injury was recorded.

Further, it adds to the list of questionable evidence against Hargrove that already includes a mischaracterized declaration and a heavily disputed assertion that he told a member of the Vikings about the bounty program.

Hargrove said Tuesday he has been the victim of a "sophisticated mugging" and added: "This, in my mind, brings everything into question. Everything."

The video is here:
NFL Videos: NFL reveals video evidence of Saints' 'bounty' program

The clip in question is at the 4:30 mark. Seifert makes an interesting point. If you look at the context, it could very well be that Hargrove talking to Bobby McCray in a different conversation. But the "pay me my money" is actually coming from Remi Ayodele to Will Smith. This makes a little more sense as Hargrove wasn't even involved in the hit that hurt Favre - Ayodele was. It would be weird for a guy not involved in the play to come off the field and say "Pay me my money" right after it. We'll see how the league responds, but it seems like Ayodele should be the one suspended for this comment and not Hargrove if you look at the context.

[mckerney]

Percy Harvin is asking to be traded, sadly I can't say I blame him.

[Julio Riddols]

Cleveland and St. Louis have to be very interested in that.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Percy Harvin is asking to be traded, sadly I can't say I blame him.

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Cleveland and St. Louis have to be very interested in that.

I was going to say the NY Jets!

[Lathum]

San Francisco 49ers' Brandon Jacobs refills Joseph Armento's piggy bank - ESPN New York

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

San Francisco 49ers' Brandon Jacobs refills Joseph Armento's piggy bank - ESPN New York

Yep - we were already lauding him over in the "thread for athletes who do nice things" thread.

Class move by Jacobs.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Ummmm....no thanks

Terrell Owens says he is being extorted over graphic photos | SI Tracking Blog – Tracking MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, and NCAA On Twitter

[Logan]

Isn't Owens completely broke?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

Isn't Owens completely broke?

I bet he's "celebrity/athlete broke" - "broke" for purposes of bankruptcy filings and taxes, but somehow managing to have some cash and nice stuff around still.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by molson

I bet he's "celebrity/athlete broke" - "broke" for purposes of bankruptcy filings and taxes, but somehow managing to have some cash and nice stuff around still.

I don't know. While I don't recall everything from it, his interview in GQ a few months back was pretty sad.

[RomaGoth]

Lions sign coach Jim Schwartz to multi-year contract extension.

[stevew]

It's pretty crazy how you can more or less equate professional athletes with lottery winners in regards to being broke.

[Julio Riddols]

Yeah, it seems a little crazy how easy it sounds to not fall into that trap. You get a big ass signing bonus on your most recent deal, so why not get yourself a nice home to live in in a place you wouldn't mind being for the long term, then putting a big chunk of the remaining funds somewhere safe where it can grow? Use the rest to rent a nice house in the current city you play for, and that's that.

But then, I guess thinking about the situation and actually being in it might be a different story all together. I don't know how I would react to having a shit ton of money dumped in my lap, but I do know how I would like to react.