The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I guess good time as any to do a retrospective.



#2 is still a work in progress and trending in right direction.

Curious how # 2 is trending in the right direction, because he is shitting on the constitution to declare a made up emergency? Otherwise what has he done?

He did nothing when he controlled all the branches. No new wall construction has been built, only existing reinforcement. He faces opposition not only from the dems, but many people in his own party. The DHS secretary just resigned. Trump is talking about actually bringing illegals into the country and dumping them in sanctuary cities. Should the emergency declaration pass he is facing years of eminent domain lawsuits.

Then there is the thousands of children ripped from their parents arms with no plans to reunite them, and could be years before they do.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Just saw an interview with Yang. Very interesting man. I like what he is selling as well.

But he seems kind of laid back. Does he have the charisma to win an election of this magnitude.

Probably not. I think any progressive candidate is going to have a tough time taking votes from Bernie Sanders, if only because he has such a head start in terms of name recognition and familiarity. As you imply, it would probably take some remarkable charisma for any of the young guns to step out in front, and Yang probably doesn't have it.

In that regard, on some basic level I still am attracted to Cory Booker, strictly because he's the only person who seems to consistently exhibit the appropriate level of anger & frustration that our government deserves. I'd love to see Yang's platform attached to Booker's personality.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Curious how # 2 is trending in the right direction, because he is shitting on the constitution to declare a made up emergency? Otherwise what has he done?

He did nothing when he controlled all the branches. No new wall construction has been built, only existing reinforcement. He faces opposition not only from the dems, but many people in his own party. The DHS secretary just resigned. Trump is talking about actually bringing illegals into the country and dumping them in sanctuary cities. Should the emergency declaration pass he is facing years of eminent domain lawsuits.

Then there is the thousands of children ripped from their parents arms with no plans to reunite them, and could be years before they do.

Where is your anger at the thousands of kids ripped from their parents in the US because their parents committed a crime?

Its a sad situation. But when you do something illegal and kids are involved, the kids suffer.

Come to the USA legally. And I bet your kids arent ripped from your arms.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Where is your anger at the thousands of kids ripped from their parents in the US because their parents committed a crime?

Its a sad situation. But when you do something illegal and kids are involved, the kids suffer.

Come to the USA legally. And I bet your kids arent ripped from your arms.

Wrong.

These people are coming here and seeking asylum, which is completely legal.

Comparing them to Americans who aren't fit to be parents is also apples and oranges. Kids put into the system are closely tracked and every effort is made to return them to their parents when they complete whatever program they are required to. If anything we favor the birth parents too much.

There is zero justification for how that is and was handled, but if you hate the scary brown people coming to rape your daughters it is easy to excuse.

[Lathum]

Dola-

And I have PLENTY of anger towards people who have kids and don't take care of them. Ever been exposed to the foster system? I have.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Where is your anger at the thousands of kids ripped from their parents in the US because their parents committed a crime?

Its a sad situation. But when you do something illegal and kids are involved, the kids suffer.

Come to the USA legally. And I bet your kids arent ripped from your arms.

JFC for the thousandth time, seeking asylum is legal.

[tarcone]

Really? They are seeking asylum? You guys are either ignorant or crazy. They could easily go to an embassy in their country and seek asylum. They dont have to pay some smuggler to sneak them across the border.

You guys are not that blind are you?

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Dola-

And I have PLENTY of anger towards people who have kids and don't take care of them. Ever been exposed to the foster system? I have.

Every day. Its a sad situation and no one should have to go through what those kids do. But when your parents are oing something illegal, the kids suffer.

Fix the system. Quit bitching. All the dems are doing is bitching. Where is their plan?

You come across illegally, and you pay the price, and the kids pay an infinitely worse price.

If I drink and drive with my kid in the car, I lose my kid. Break the law, pay the price.

This asylum crap is just that crap. Those people are not coming across seeking asylum. They are coming across seeking a better life. But there is the right way and the wrong way.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Really? They are seeking asylum? You guys are either ignorant or crazy. They could easily go to an embassy in their country and seek asylum. They dont have to pay some smuggler to sneak them across the border.

You guys are not that blind are you?

Obtaining Asylum in the United States | USCIS

Affirmative Asylum Processing with USCIS

To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum status regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status.

You must apply for asylum within one year of the date of their last arrival in the United States, unless you can show:

Changed circumstances that materially affect your eligibility for asylum or extraordinary circumstances relating to the delay in filing
You filed within a reasonable amount of time given those circumstances.
You may apply for affirmative asylum by submitting Form I-589, Application for Asylum and for Withholding of Removal, to USCIS. See Form I 589, Application for Asylum and for Withholding of Removal for instructions on how to file for asylum.

If your case is not approved and you do not have a legal immigration status, we will issue a Form I-862, Notice to Appear, and forward (or refer) your case to an Immigration Judge at the Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR). The Immigration Judge conducts a ‘de novo’ hearing of the case. This means that the judge conducts a new hearing and issues a decision that is independent of the decision made by USCIS. If we do not have jurisdiction over your case, the Asylum Office will issue an I-863, Notice of Referral to Immigration Judge, for an asylum-only hearing. See ‘Defensive Asylum Processing With EOIR’ below if this situation applies to you.

Affirmative asylum applicants are rarely detained by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). You may live in the United States while your application is pending before USCIS. If you are found ineligible, you can remain in the United States while your application is pending with the Immigration Judge. Most asylum applicants are not authorized to work.

Please see the Affirmative Asylum Process for step-by-step information.

[tarcone]

Asylum has two basic requirements. First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution in their home country.[4] Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group.[5]

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Every day. Its a sad situation and no one should have to go through what those kids do. But when your parents are oing something illegal, the kids suffer.

Fix the system. Quit bitching. All the dems are doing is bitching. Where is their plan?

You come across illegally, and you pay the price, and the kids pay an infinitely worse price.

If I drink and drive with my kid in the car, I lose my kid. Break the law, pay the price.

This asylum crap is just that crap. Those people are not coming across seeking asylum. They are coming across seeking a better life. But there is the right way and the wrong way.

Comparing these two things are the perfect illustration of just how far people will go to defend this morally bankrupt administration. The two aren't even remotely related, but if it justifies your hatred of the brown people by all means, whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

JFC for the thousandth time, seeking asylum is legal.

Let's work out the scenarios.

1) They apply for asylum outside of the US. Agree this is legal
2) They enter the US legally and apply for asylum inside the US. Agree this is legal
3) They enter the US illegally and apply for asylum. I guess applying for asylum is still legal but are they illegal/broken law already when they apply? I think the answer is yes but can be persuaded by others more knowledgeable with the nuances

You may apply for asylum if you are at a port of entry or in the United States. You may apply for asylum regardless of your immigration status and within one year of your arrival to the United States.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Comparing these two things are the perfect illustration of just how far people will go to defend this morally bankrupt administration. The two aren't even remotely related, but if it justifies your hatred of the brown people by all means, whatever helps you sleep at night.

And calling others names must make you feel warm and fuzzy. Stop with the race card. It is old and tired. You know nothing about me.

Grow up and bring a real argument. Your lack of maturity is frightening and explains your liberal bias.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by tarcone

And calling others names must make you feel warm and fuzzy. Stop with the race card. It is old and tired. You know nothing about me.

Grow up and bring a real argument. Your lack of maturity is frightening and explains your liberal bias.

Originally Posted by tarcone

Really? They are seeking asylum? You guys are either ignorant or crazy. They could easily go to an embassy in their country and seek asylum. They dont have to pay some smuggler to sneak them across the border.

You guys are not that blind are you?

Originally Posted by tarcone

Every day. Its a sad situation and no one should have to go through what those kids do. But when your parents are oing something illegal, the kids suffer.

Fix the system. Quit bitching. All the dems are doing is bitching. Where is their plan?

You come across illegally, and you pay the price, and the kids pay an infinitely worse price.

If I drink and drive with my kid in the car, I lose my kid. Break the law, pay the price.

This asylum crap is just that crap. Those people are not coming across seeking asylum. They are coming across seeking a better life. But there is the right way and the wrong way.

Sure, dude. Sure.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Curious how # 2 is trending in the right direction, because he is shitting on the constitution to declare a made up emergency? Otherwise what has he done?

I will grant you many of the stuff Trump says is made up. However, 11M+ illegal/unauthorized or approx. 3+% of the population is not an "emergency"? Maybe not in an immediate sense but com'on.

What has he done? Definitely brought more awareness and making us confront the problem - the good and bad instead of political kicking the can down the road. Can he do more? Absolutely, I would want a holistic immigration reform in addition to the Wall.

No new wall construction has been built, only existing reinforcement.

I don't know what this proves other than the Dems/Reps have been effective so far in preventing it. There's no doubt he wants to build it if he can find a way.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Stop with the race card. It is old and tired.

I agree its just race baiting. I contend all things held equal that if it was white folks from south of the border it would be the same thing.

No one here championing the poor yellow folks across the ocean or poor black folks from Africa. No equal opportunity for them.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Sure, dude. Sure.

I did not call anyone a name. I suggested they may be those things, but did not directly call them a name.


The oldest trick in the dems book is to call someone racist. When, in fact, the democratic party is extremely racist. What party makes promises to the poor and disenfranchised in the big cities and then does nothing to help them? Why do they lie to those people and hold them down and blame the big bad GOp for their lot in life. Yet do nothing to help them?

Yes, the democratic party is extremely racist.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Sure, dude. Sure.

exactly.

He is comparing migrants seeking asylum from unfathomable conditions with shitty American parents, then using that comparison to justify the inhumane separation of children from their parents, with no organization or plans for how to reunite them.

Yet I'm bringing no argument.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I will grant you many of the stuff Trump says is made up. However, 11M+ illegal/unauthorized or approx. 3+% of the population is not an "emergency"? Maybe not in an immediate sense but com'on.

What has he done? Definitely brought more awareness and making us confront the problem - the good and bad instead of political kicking the can down the road. Can he do more? Absolutely, I would want a holistic immigration reform in addition to the Wall.



I don't know what this proves other than the Dems/Reps have been effective so far in preventing it. There's no doubt he wants to build it if he can find a way.

He is failing in epic fashion on his biggest campaign promise, how exactly is that heading in the right direction?

Immigration is at a 20 year low, how is that an emergency? Not to mention we NEED those people. Lazy Mericans aint workin the farms or washing the dishes.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I agree its just race baiting. I contend all things held equal that if it was white folks from south of the border it would be the same thing.

.

You keep telling yourself that.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

exactly.

He is comparing migrants seeking asylum from unfathomable conditions with shitty American parents, then using that comparison to justify the inhumane separation of children from their parents, with no organization or plans for how to reunite them.

Yet I'm bringing no argument.

Folks, to be fair, you guys are focusing not really focusing on his argument. Most people will agree that what happened to the kids was shameful, I don't see Tarcone advocating it.

Originally Posted by tarcone

Every day. Its a sad situation and no one should have to go through what those kids do. But when your parents are oing something illegal, the kids suffer.

Fix the system. Quit bitching. All the dems are doing is bitching. Where is their plan?

You come across illegally, and you pay the price, and the kids pay an infinitely worse price.

If I drink and drive with my kid in the car, I lose my kid. Break the law, pay the price.

This asylum crap is just that crap. Those people are not coming across seeking asylum. They are coming across seeking a better life. But there is the right way and the wrong way.

So what is the Democrats plan?

Do you disagree that the asylum play is a scam for most?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You keep telling yourself that.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

Let me know when you are advocating for same for the yellow and black folks in other countries, many who are in just as desperate straits if not even more so.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Folks, to be fair, you guys are focusing not really focusing on his argument. Most people will agree that what happened to the kids was shameful, I don't see Tarcone advocating it.

Originally Posted by tarcone

Where is your anger at the thousands of kids ripped from their parents in the US because their parents committed a crime?

Its a sad situation. But when you do something illegal and kids are involved, the kids suffer.

Come to the USA legally. And I bet your kids arent ripped from your arms.

This looks a lot to me like advocating it

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You keep telling yourself that.

Wow. What happened to you that you are that dug in on this? Why is it that when we want to protect our nation we are racist.

i agree that if it was a bunch of whites crossing illegally I would be just as against it. But that doesnt fit your narrative, so you dismiss it.

I could care less who enters LEGALLY. Let these central americans go to the nearest embassy and apply for asylum. Im all for it.

But as you can see, the USA does not have to let anyone in. And letting millions in puts more stress on our already crappy social system.

But I guess im racist. I cant wait until you demand that I pay reparations to blacks because I am white. Even though I had nothing to do with slavery.
Or I give my house to native americans because we stole their land.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

He is failing in epic fashion on his biggest campaign promise, how exactly is that heading in the right direction?

I answered it best way I know how (might have more ideas but watching GOT rerun right now).

What has he done? Definitely brought more awareness and making us confront the problem - the good and bad instead of political kicking the can down the road. Can he do more? Absolutely, I would want a holistic immigration reform in addition to the Wall.

Originally Posted by Lathum

Immigration is at a 20 year low, how is that an emergency? Not to mention we NEED those people. Lazy Mericans aint workin the farms or washing the dishes.

11M, 3% of pop.

Yes, we need legal guest workers working on the farms, washing dishes, building houses etc. Yes, Trump had an opportunity to fix it (his way) in the first 2 years. Yes, Obama had the same opportunity in his first 2 years. Unfortunately, both didn't think they wanted to spend the political capital then.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

This looks a lot to me like advocating it

Don't see it but I'll let him answer (may be surprised).

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Do you disagree that the asylum play is a scam for most?

It doesn't matter in terms of legality. Coming to a port of entry and requesting asylum is legal. The family separation policy effects those families. The people that are held until an immigration judge hears the case are primarily the asylum cases. It was those people that had their kids taken and shipped all over the country, some of which are still separated from their parents/families.

tarcone is equating asylum seekers at a point of entry with border crossers outside of a port of entry, and legally they aren't at all the same thing.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Lathum

This looks a lot to me like advocating it

Nope. Not at all. But you do something illegal and you pay the price. I would prefer that these people do it the right way. Why sneak across a border dragging your kids that have no idea what is happening.

Guess what is going to happen? You lose your kids. Sad. Play by the rules and good things happen. Dont play by the rules and bad things happen.

[JPhillips]

As for the Dem plan, I expect this would still garner a lot of support, but the GOP would continue to oppose it.



And Trump could have had this in 2018, but the whole goal is reduced legal immigration, so he said no.

WASHINGTON — A broad bipartisan group of senators reached agreement Wednesday on a narrow rewrite of the nation’s immigration laws that would bolster border security and resolve the fate of the so-called Dreamers, even as President Trump suggested he would veto any plan that does not adhere to his harder-line approach.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Folks, to be fair, you guys are focusing not really focusing on his argument. Most people will agree that what happened to the kids was shameful, I don't see Tarcone advocating it.



So what is the Democrats plan?

Do you disagree that the asylum play is a scam for most?

The dems plan seems to be call out Trump and scare people. Like all their other plans.

I dont think most are seeking asylum. I think they are looking for a better life. I think the dems are using asylum as a way to lie to the masses and get people to believe them.

I dont htink asylum is truly what is happening here.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by tarcone

The dems plan seems to be call out Trump and scare people. Like all their other plans.

I dont think most are seeking asylum. I think they are looking for a better life. I think the dems are using asylum as a way to lie to the masses and get people to believe them.

I dont htink asylum is truly what is happening here.

Right. Because you are there.

It is laughable to say the dems are trying to scare people when literally the only thing that was on FOX news for weeks leading up to the election was the "caravan" headed here. The one that mysteriously disappeared the day after election day.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

It doesn't matter in terms of legality. Coming to a port of entry and requesting asylum is legal. The family separation policy effects those families. The people that are held until an immigration judge hears the case are primarily the asylum cases. It was those people that had their kids taken and shipped all over the country, some of which are still separated from their parents/families.

tarcone is equating asylum seekers at a point of entry with border crossers outside of a port of entry, and legally they aren't at all the same thing.

Let me ask the question in a different way - do you agree that most applying for asylum will not fit the below requirements but apply anyway?

Asylum has two basic requirements. First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution in their home country.[4] Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I could care less who enters LEGALLY. Let these central americans go to the nearest embassy and apply for asylum. Im all for it.

Why are you deliberately ignoring the evidence that you can only apply for asylum in the U.S.?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Let me ask the question in a different way - do you agree that most applying for asylum will not fit the below requirements but apply anyway?

I have no idea, but even if that's true, coming and requesting asylum is legal.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Why are you deliberately ignoring the evidence that you can only apply for asylum in the U.S.?

An embassy in a foreign country is considered territory of said country. This is why Assange lived in the ecaudorian embassy for 5 years in London.

Im sure the USA has an embassy in Mexico and the Central American countries.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Right. Because you are there.

It is laughable to say the dems are trying to scare people when literally the only thing that was on FOX news for weeks leading up to the election was the "caravan" headed here. The one that mysteriously disappeared the day after election day.

Just like you are there. Do not discount what I say when you are in the same boat.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by tarcone

An embassy in a foreign country is considered territory of said country. This is why Assange lived in the ecudarian embassy for 5 years in London.

Im sure the USA has an embassy in Mexico and the Central American countries.

No, immigrants cannot apply for asylum at U.S. embassies or consulates abroad | PolitiFact

Going to a U.S. embassy or consulate does not count as being physically present in the United States for purposes of the asylum statute, said Deborah Anker, a clinical professor of law, founder and director of the Harvard Immigration and Refugee Clinical Program at Harvard Law School.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

As for the Dem plan, I expect this would still garner a lot of support, but the GOP would continue to oppose it.

So what did the Dems do with the plan, was there a bill proposed or just words to placate the disappointment that was Obama in 2008-2010?

Is there a somewhat unified Dem plan now?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Just like you are there. Do not discount what I say when you are in the same boat.

Except I am not questioning the legitimacy of the asylum seekers the way you are.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

No, immigrants cannot apply for asylum at U.S. embassies or consulates abroad | PolitiFact

I think the distinction is that folks can apply for refugee status outside of the country vs asylum.

Maybe they should do that?

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Except I am not questioning the legitimacy of the asylum seekers the way you are.

No, you are saying they are all seeking asylum. I do not believe this at all.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I have no idea, but even if that's true, coming and requesting asylum is legal.

Respectfully, your refusal to answer a simple question is telling.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Edward64

So what did the Dems do with the plan, was there a bill proposed or just words to placate the disappointment that was Obama in 2008-2010?

Is there a somewhat unified Dem plan now?

In both 2006 and 2013 a bipartisan group of 60 Senators passed an immigration reform bill that the GOP House refused to consider. There have been several opportunities over the past 15 years to pass a compromise bill that almost certainly had majority support in the House, but each time the GOP says no and refuses a vote.

That's because enough GOPers don't want a compromise, they want restrictions on legal immigration.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Respectfully, your refusal to answer a simple question is telling.

I'm not at the border. I'm not hearing evidence. Sure, some are and some aren't. Regardless,

REQUESTING ASYLUM AT A US PORT OF ENTRY IS NOT ILLEGAL

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by tarcone

No, you are saying they are all seeking asylum. I do not believe this at all.

Show me where I said all.

I'll wait.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by tarcone

No, you are saying they are all seeking asylum. I do not believe this at all.

To be fair, I do believe many would fall under asylum, but agree with you, its a scam for the majority.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Wrong.

These people are coming here and seeking asylum, which is completely legal.

Comparing them to Americans who aren't fit to be parents is also apples and oranges. Kids put into the system are closely tracked and every effort is made to return them to their parents when they complete whatever program they are required to. If anything we favor the birth parents too much.

There is zero justification for how that is and was handled, but if you hate the scary brown people coming to rape your daughters it is easy to excuse.

Was this you?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Was this you?

You need to work on your reading comprehension.

No where in that do I say ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE COMING HERE

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by tarcone

No, you are saying they are all seeking asylum. I do not believe this at all.

But the family separation policy targeted asylum seekers as well as those that crossed outside of a point of entry. You aren't willing to accept that some people that did nothing illegal had their children taken from them.

And crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor. What other misdemeanor results in your kids being shipped a thousand miles a way?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'm not at the border. I'm not hearing evidence. Sure, some are and some aren't. Regardless,

REQUESTING ASYLUM AT A US POST OF ENTRY IS NOT ILLEGAL

There are plenty of other opinions you have offered that do not rise to this stated level of rigor.

I'm not stating its illegal of apply for asylum.