WW LXVI: Money Money Money (Game Over!)

[DaddyTorgo]

doesn't the insider protect against a night-kill that day too?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

doesn't the insider protect against a night-kill that day too?

if it does we're in luck and i an liquidate my money tomorrow safely, then you're fre to lynch another rich guy if you still want to.

I didn't see anything about that, so I'm assuming now that I've laid myself bare on your vivisection table that I'm a dead man tonight.

Great vote guys, you had Schmidty as an option and people even said they had MORE reasons to vote for him than for me, but no, schidt votes for me and you al follow a 'suspected cutthroat' like sheep. You dissapoint me =)

Anyway, any other questions?

[Chief Rum]

Render, you will survive tonight because I won the Underworld Connection. There will be no kill tonight--which you know because BK has no doubt told the wolves they have no kill or conversion ability tonight.

You will be lynched tomorrow, of course.

[DaddyTorgo]

aaaah...i must have been getting my wires crossed with the UC and the GI

[Barkeep49]

After last night's carnage, it's nice to wake-up today and find all of your friends are still around.

Today's services:
Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Bodyguard Firm: May choose 1 player to be protected from attacks.
Financial Analyst: Will learn the total money of 1 player. Must be used night 7.

[Alan T]

Vote Render

[Schmidty]

VOTE RENDER

[SnDvls]

Vote RendeR

[DaddyTorgo]

no PM for me so i gather i'm still alive and haven't been converted (that is to say no PM besides the one giving me my financials).

VOTE RENDER

[Alan T]

I guess today is a day for ketchup porn.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I guess today is a day for ketchup porn.

Did someone say ketchup porn!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Did someone say ketchup porn!

oh sweet jesus

[Schmidty]

Maybe they can have a 3-some

[jeheinz72]

That cheating slut!

[RendeR]

Ok so everyone is convinced I'm a wolf, fine... Is there anything that would convince you otherwise? I'm willing to do whatever you ask.


I'll liquidate and turn it all over to one or many of you if you wish.

You make the call.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Render, you will survive tonight because I won the Underworld Connection. There will be no kill tonight--which you know because BK has no doubt told the wolves they have no kill or conversion ability tonight.

You will be lynched tomorrow, of course.

Thats fine, just remember these words when you lynch me and find out I was just another rich guy:


You were all wrong. The wolves played you and you gave schmidty another two days of life.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Ok so everyone is convinced I'm a wolf, fine... Is there anything that would convince you otherwise? I'm willing to do whatever you ask.


I'll liquidate and turn it all over to one or many of you if you wish.

You make the call.

Any of the things I asked for the last 30 hours would have been nice at the time.. however a little late after the fact now that we found you completely lied to us about the majority if not all of them.

[RendeR]

It is kind of annoyging actually. I mean I really had nothing I could have done or said anywhere along the way that would have convinced you guys to trust me.

I was afraid that if I jumped on Schmidty first then you'd assume I was the wolf pushing the play and lynch me anyway. Then he jumped the gun on me and you all joined in. *sigh*

At least I wasn't killed early, screw hoops and his dreams of the longest thread ever =)

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by RendeR

It is kind of annoyging actually. I mean I really had nothing I could have done or said anywhere along the way that would have convinced you guys to trust me.

same thign happend to me....

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Any of the things I asked for the last 30 hours would have been nice at the time.. however a little late after the fact now that we found you completely lied to us about the majority if not all of them.

I lied to stay alive. If I'd told you I had large sums tied up in CD's you'd have lynched me as the money wolf, or I'd have been killed to eliminate those funds and gain the on hand money for themselves.

Do you not see that everything you asked me put me immediately in a no win situatin? I HAD to lie to you based on the information you wanted.

I didn't divulge the government insider because I wanted that to be an uknown for the wolves so they couldn't be sure of who had it, keep them guessing as to who they should push for.

Yeah, I lied to you, but you left me no choice. Talk and die, lie and die later. What would you do?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

same thign happend to me....

Yes but clap, we were right about you

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I lied to stay alive. If I'd told you I had large sums tied up in CD's you'd have lynched me as the money wolf, or I'd have been killed to eliminate those funds and gain the on hand money for themselves.

Do you not see that everything you asked me put me immediately in a no win situatin? I HAD to lie to you based on the information you wanted.

I didn't divulge the government insider because I wanted that to be an uknown for the wolves so they couldn't be sure of who had it, keep them guessing as to who they should push for.

Yeah, I lied to you, but you left me no choice. Talk and die, lie and die later. What would you do?

Just because this day has been fairly boring, I'll respond even though I can guess what your responses will be.

I believe fully there are times for a villager to lie to hide certain things.. (Seer roles, etc).. but in the case where you were there, if you were truly good, all you had to do was tell the truth. The reason I guessed correctly about you was mainly because Schmidty didn't necessarily provide exact numbers, but he told us what he had done, and then it only took a little effort on my part to go back and compare those numbers with what he should have and they ended up fairly accurately.

With you, it was fairly obvious you were lying about something, as the hidden buffer money that was unaccountable for was in some mysterious CD that you didn't tell us any information about. Honestly, in that situation, there was no reason as a villager to lie, and you did multiple times.

As far as I am aware only five people have been asked to do some form of accounting this game to the extent you were requested to.. Of those 5, Hoops and I told the truth, and it helped us survive. Schmidty apparently told the truth as best we can tell, and he got off the hook yesterday. You and Claphasma lied, see the direct result here?

[RendeR]

Umm, i hate to destroy your logic train here alan, but, umm...hoops is dead

hence my choice to keep my affairs private. When I get lynched and you're all shown that I am in FACT a rich guy, I hope you feel like the fools you are =) You allowed a suspected wolf, a wolf who gave you what you asked for, wether his numbers were real of utterly fictional (GASP a wolf lying to gain trust?) and then followed him on a lynching train of a good guy.

Yes I understand al you see is a player admiting to have lied to you, tough siht =) yer still wrong unfortunately for me it will require my elimination to prove it. Then you can scramble to try and win this game because after wasting these two days the wolves are damn close to a winning scenario.

[DaddyTorgo]

uhhh we didn't waste the days render. if you'd told us you had the government insider maybe things might have gone down differently. we might have chosen to lynch schmidty first. but no...you concealed that from us too.

and "so the wolves didn't know who had it" is a pretty lame reason for not revealing it any point leading up to the attempt to bankrupt you.

you know what, i'm willing to concede that we might be wrong about you. i don't think that we are, but we might be. but that's the nature of the game. you can't get personally upset about it...it's just a game

[RendeR]

I'm not getting personally upset about it, I'm simply stating it as simply as I can. nothing personal there, just me being me.

And again, i said this before, if I had come clean with the government insider pickup 2 things would have happened, A I'd get night killed or B you'd all have lynchedme for being the "money wolf" so that argment of yours is crap. There were at least two posts stating that people assumed the government insider went to a wolf so i was screwed if i came out with it.

Think about it a bit.

[The Jackal]

vote render

[Mr. Wednesday]

RendeR, if you're not a cutthroat, I'd strongly recommend spreading some of your money around.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Well, I have to go out, and with nothing forthcoming, I'm sticking with my vote from yesterday. I will probably not be here around deadline.

VOTE RendeR

[Chief Rum]

If you were a villager, you would have moved your money around by now.

VOTE RENDER

[Chief Rum]

Just checking the time against my computer clock.

[Chief Rum]

Good, looks like no funny business.

[Barkeep49]

There's no real debate or discussion. You know who you have to make penurious. And so with a laserlike efficiency you go about your business of bankrupting Render. Only you discover, afterwards (of course!) that he was rich.

Winning bids:
Bodyguard 41500
Financial Analyst 91123
Friend at the Bank 1000

[DaddyTorgo]

well...ouch? that sucks.

[Chief Rum]

Very disappointing. We all bear responsibility. That said, I think Alan was right that Render needed to be more forthcoming, so this is partly on him, too.

I still think Schmidty is a good target.

BTW, some people have lots of money in the bank, and some have no money. No real middle ground. Interesting, read into it what you will. One player in particular has a whole crapload of money.

Personally, I think we can vote End Game tonight still, although I am less certain with having won the Underworld Conection last night and losing Render's cash. Also, if that one particular person (with all the cash) was converted, we could have issues. So probably too risky.

Who won the seer last night, and how come he hasn't come out and said what he found? Right now, I have to guess the wolves won that.

[Barkeep49]

Couple of notes:
1. I'm hoping to sleep in tomorrow so the deadline is back an hour, though if you have the orders in early there's a good chance I'll be up early because
2. I've been suffering some real sleep problems over the past few weeks and the sleep deprivation is making it increasingly hard to function. So please double check the facts and figures I do because mistakes are quite possibly going to creep in. I apologize in advance for any that may occur.

[RendeR]

Somehow 'I told you so' never really helps in werewolf


Good luck good guys, yer gonna need it now.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Very disappointing. We all bear responsibility. That said, I think Alan was right that Render needed to be more forthcoming, so this is partly on him, too.

I still think Schmidty is a good target.

BTW, some people have lots of money in the bank, and some have no money. No real middle ground. Interesting, read into it what you will. One player in particular has a whole crapload of money.

Personally, I think we can vote End Game tonight still, although I am less certain with having won the Underworld Conection last night and losing Render's cash. Also, if that one particular person (with all the cash) was converted, we could have issues. So probably too risky.

Who won the seer last night, and how come he hasn't come out and said what he found? Right now, I have to guess the wolves won that.

Schimdty is going to be my target at this point.

I have not been converted, and I did not begin as a cutthroat. I am pure-rich.

Chief - can you be more specific about how much "a whole crapload" is? Like say within 25k of it or something...to give that person an idea of who you are talking about, and so that we can all evaluate if the amount of money they have is impossible?

[SnDvls]

well that just sucks

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Very disappointing. We all bear responsibility. That said, I think Alan was right that Render needed to be more forthcoming, so this is partly on him, too.

I still think Schmidty is a good target.

BTW, some people have lots of money in the bank, and some have no money. No real middle ground. Interesting, read into it what you will. One player in particular has a whole crapload of money.

Personally, I think we can vote End Game tonight still, although I am less certain with having won the Underworld Conection last night and losing Render's cash. Also, if that one particular person (with all the cash) was converted, we could have issues. So probably too risky.

Who won the seer last night, and how come he hasn't come out and said what he found? Right now, I have to guess the wolves won that.

I assume that you won the friend at the bank.. What I would think is important to do is the people whom seem to have either an oddly high amount or oddly low amount of money in the bank, try to work your way through the amounts that they -should- have at this point and see if any really stick out as off. At this point, after 7 days someone who has been active and hasn't won any services should have 130-150k somewhere so having alot of money in the bank doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot right now...

After all of our previous discussions where we cleared up the whole issue regarding money in the bank being available, I would be pretty uneasy about someone who should have alot of money in the bank that doesn't have much.. or likewise the opposite, someone who has won a few services having more than they should. Factor in any inheritences they have won, and if anyone still stands out like a sore thumb to you, I think at this point you should bring them forward for us...

My gut feeling still tells me that I just don't think Schmidty is a wolf.. but at this point if he isn't a wolf, then I was obviously wrong about someone coming in to today.. So any help you can provide probably is worth it at this point.


And for the love of all that is Holy, if you are a villager and are being questioned about finances, please don't lie.. just tell us the truth so you don't trip your own self up and look guilty.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Schimdty is going to be my target at this point.

I have not been converted, and I did not begin as a cutthroat. I am pure-rich.

Chief - can you be more specific about how much "a whole crapload" is? Like say within 25k of it or something...to give that person an idea of who you are talking about, and so that we can all evaluate if the amount of money they have is impossible?

Remember my bid yesterday for the Underground Connection? This guy could have topped it with his bank cash.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I assume that you won the friend at the bank.. What I would think is important to do is the people whom seem to have either an oddly high amount or oddly low amount of money in the bank, try to work your way through the amounts that they -should- have at this point and see if any really stick out as off. At this point, after 7 days someone who has been active and hasn't won any services should have 130-150k somewhere so having alot of money in the bank doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot right now...

After all of our previous discussions where we cleared up the whole issue regarding money in the bank being available, I would be pretty uneasy about someone who should have alot of money in the bank that doesn't have much.. or likewise the opposite, someone who has won a few services having more than they should. Factor in any inheritences they have won, and if anyone still stands out like a sore thumb to you, I think at this point you should bring them forward for us...

My gut feeling still tells me that I just don't think Schmidty is a wolf.. but at this point if he isn't a wolf, then I was obviously wrong about someone coming in to today.. So any help you can provide probably is worth it at this point.


And for the love of all that is Holy, if you are a villager and are being questioned about finances, please don't lie.. just tell us the truth so you don't trip your own self up and look guilty.

I'll take a look and see what I come up with, although without access to CD/on hand money totals and guesswork on service spending, it will be a guess at best. Someone will really have to stand out.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Remember my bid yesterday for the Underground Connection? This guy could have topped it with his bank cash.

That sounds like alot of money, I hope it is someone that we can trust at this point. Do you think he has a suspicious amount of money in the bank? If so, perhaps we should look into them a bit if you think it is wise.

As for my money, you can see the little amount I have is mostly the inheritence from Tyrith. I have an additional 30k to that in a CD right now so the little money that I have left is kept safe from the wolves if they thought about attacking me tonight, and all should pass to my beneficiary. Chief, right now I think you're probably the most trusted person left, so having friend of the bank, I think we're going to need to rely on your opinion on some of the people you find suspicious.

I still don't know if I really think Schmidty is the last wolf from the start, but at this point I've run dry after Pass and Clap.

[DaddyTorgo]

is there a point where we should just all reveal our cash and where it is and whatever, and trust that the #'s are on our side and we may be able to trip up a cutthroat and catch them in a lie or something?

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Remember my bid yesterday for the Underground Connection? This guy could have topped it with his bank cash.

$ 140 K

is what you bid on the underworld correct?

whomever has that kind of money lying around is rolling in the money right now.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

is there a point where we should just all reveal our cash and where it is and whatever, and trust that the #'s are on our side and we may be able to trip up a cutthroat and catch them in a lie or something?

I'd be willing to consider this during the day time.. Do you think this is a great idea at night while they are choosing their next target?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

is there a point where we should just all reveal our cash and where it is and whatever, and trust that the #'s are on our side and we may be able to trip up a cutthroat and catch them in a lie or something?

Hmm, interesting idea. It would give the wolves clear targets.

My question would be, if people have a lot of people on hand right now, do the wolves get first crack at them before their finance requests are dealt with?

For instance, let's say Schmidty is a Rich and has $50,000 from a matured CD. He wants to move it into the Bank so it will be safe from the wolves. But we reveal numbers tonight and he's the wolves' best target. Does BK honor Schmidty's funds-shifting request first or the wolves' kill request?

The answer to that question (especially at night) might be key to whether to try DT's strategy (now or at all). Has anyone already asked this? Is BK still around?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

$ 140 K

is what you bid on the underworld correct?

whomever has that kind of money lying around is rolling in the money right now.

Yes, on the dot.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Hmm, interesting idea. It would give the wolves clear targets.

My question would be, if people have a lot of people on hand right now, do the wolves get first crack at them before their finance requests are dealt with?

For instance, let's say Schmidty is a Rich and has $50,000 from a matured CD. He wants to move it into the Bank so it will be safe from the wolves. But we reveal numbers tonight and he's the wolves' best target. Does BK honor Schmidty's funds-shifting request first or the wolves' kill request?

The answer to that question (especially at night) might be key to whether to try DT's strategy (now or at all). Has anyone already asked this? Is BK still around?

What did Hoops end up saying about whether or not he got the 15k from the vote of someone who he was the beneficiary for? I don't remember if he said he got it or the wolves did.. I think that answer would answer this question for us. If Hoops got that 15k , then the money was transfered to bank/CD before wolf kill.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

That sounds like alot of money, I hope it is someone that we can trust at this point. Do you think he has a suspicious amount of money in the bank? If so, perhaps we should look into them a bit if you think it is wise.

As for my money, you can see the little amount I have is mostly the inheritence from Tyrith. I have an additional 30k to that in a CD right now so the little money that I have left is kept safe from the wolves if they thought about attacking me tonight, and all should pass to my beneficiary. Chief, right now I think you're probably the most trusted person left, so having friend of the bank, I think we're going to need to rely on your opinion on some of the people you find suspicious.

I still don't know if I really think Schmidty is the last wolf from the start, but at this point I've run dry after Pass and Clap.

I will see what I can come up with, but it might be something I can't get out soon (but over the next couple hours). So you guys might end up discussing it tomorrow after I leave. But I'll see what I can do.

I would have to crunch the numbers to determine if it's suspicious. But at this point, someone who has not spent much on services and hit every vote could theoretically get up to that amount and more by now, I believe. This person is high on our trust lists, I believe (he is on mine, anyway).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

What did Hoops end up saying about whether or not he got the 15k from the vote of someone who he was the beneficiary for? I don't remember if he said he got it or the wolves did.. I think that answer would answer this question for us. If Hoops got that 15k , then the money was transfered to bank/CD before wolf kill.

That was Lathum on Day One, I believe. And, yes, for hoops to have gotten it, Lathum would have had to have had that $15K in the bank. And he could only have put it in that night (having just received it).