The Trump Presidency – 2016

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

What, you don't still get carded? I have to show mine on every alcohol purchase here -- both retail & dining out -- even thought I'm pretty freakin' clearly past 21.

I usually get carded, especially at the supermarket since I use the self checkout and the person has to come over and approve before I can continue. However, I was not carded the last two times I went to the liquor store.

[BYU 14]

My wife gets carded still, but I don't, unless they are just being nice. I am 53 and she is 48 and looks much younger, so I expect it. But damn, I am sick of always being that dirty old man with a young chippy, while she gets to smile and play the "Black don't crack" line.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Its tyranny to have a state ID? Which you need to do multiple things in life.
IDs are not required, but are recommended. They are easily obtainable. For anyone.
Why is it that big a deal to have one ot vote?
Who will it hurt?

It's your party that threw a tantrum at the idea of a national ID card.

[Easy Mac]

so, I see Trump's staff are still using non-government e-mails.

Can tarcone, mmbf, or Jon let us know why its ok for the gander? or are ganders the lady gooses?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

What, you don't still get carded? I have to show mine on every alcohol purchase here -- both retail & dining out -- even thought I'm pretty freakin' clearly past 21.

I get carded at the grocery store to buy beer or wine, and I think at some chain restaurants that require carding everyone, but usually I don't have to show ID to get booze - even at liquor stores.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

PROPOSITION: "This policy provides no benefit and will make life needlessly more difficulty/troublesome for [distinct group]. Accordingly, it is a bad policy and should be rejected."

RESPONSE: "I reject your argument because I, personally, am not a member of [distinct group]."

Unless and until we stop allowing that to be an acceptable response, public discourse will continue to degrade.

Or

Response: " I am discussing why getting an ID isnt a big deal and you are assuming that the poor dont have a clue why you would need ID."

My Mom was 82 when she died. Still had her license. And she grew up in a state where you didnt need a drivers license. But she knew you needed ID. Just because it was a good idea and a safety issue.

I cant see why a person would walk around with out ID. what if you die? Or get hurt and are unresponsive?
Having ID in todays society is a must have.

[ISiddiqui]

You have got to be shitting me...

Trump's most senior staff use a private email server

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You have got to be shitting me...

Trump's most senior staff use a private email server

But... emails!

Wait, am I doing that right?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

So, is there any reason to believe that any "independent" body or whatever that Trump gets to do an election audit won't turn up "evidence?" This just seems like the next totalitarian step on his list. He's already lied about God knows what, its well within reason to assume they'll create "evidence" to show fraud to drastically purge rolls/change voting rules.

Yes, because you still need local officials to go along with it to produce evidence, as Pat McCrory found out when he tried pulling similar shenanigans in the NC governor's race and found that the Republican dominated, politically-appointed local voting officials were more interested in doing their job competently than partisan shenanigans. Just as their more egregious voting restriction overreaches were slapped down by the courts. There probably are some corrupt local officials, but things are borderline impossible to invent at that level.

Now, as Goodell showed with Deflategate, Trump can just lie about what was found even when the actual report disproves his statements, and people will be more than happy to go along with it as long as it fits their preferred narrative. But I don't think actual commission's will be inventing things in concert with local election officials.

Originally Posted by tarcone

I didnt realize you were Trumps counselor. Because that would really be the only way you know if he is DEEPLY insecure.
Because, I doubt a man who has done what he has is DEEPLY insecure.

I think the hands issue proved it.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

One of the sneaky things in that budget plan I noticed was that SS cuts wouldn't start right away. Obviously they realize they can't cut current benefits because they'd lose those voters. So the cuts start down the road. Basically if you are planning to be on SS in 20 years, you'd be the one getting fucked.

I've assumed since I started paying in to SS 15 years ago that I would definitely not receive all the promised benefits. I've always thought it was more likely they'd increase means testing and retirement age instead of completely throwing the program out, but if you're under 45 and you've been planning to retire comfortably on SS alone you're an idiot.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

This is happening already at the state level. My mother lives in Ohio and was promised healthcare for life as the spouse of a state employee. She stayed home, raised a family, and had basically no income or savings or retirement plan to draw from in her old age. She did what women of her era were expected to do.

And now the state has pulled her healthcare and given her premium support of something like 250 a month. 250 for a woman in her eighties. At the end of the day spending less is more important than honoring promises.

I feel bad for individuals caught up in it, but many state and local governments have been drastically over promising for decades and it makes the federal numbers look positively rosy in comparison. Massachusetts was giving 80% of the top 3 years income after as little as 20 years in certain fields (the MBTA was the most notorious offender). Detroit's the most prominent municipality to file for bankruptcy, but it's not just declining rust belt areas - there are a plethora of California jurisdictions that had to file, even Orange County. Your mother sounds like someone the system should be there for, but with advances in life expectancy & quality of life there is way too high a ratio of retirees to workers to sustain the high benefits (and way too many able bodied workers retiring when they could still contribute, and even being forced into early retirement at various times to solve short term budget problems.)

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

That's what I'm saying, surely rolling all of this into one service would greatly reduce government redundancy, and may actually save the government money. Think of how this could help track down tax cheats, welfare cheats, any number of people who are trying to game the system.

Originally Posted by cuervo72

What if you're getting a new ID? My aunt recently had to transfer her license to PA, from CA. She initially couldn't complete the process because PA found that GA (where she lived before CA) never canceled her license there, and until that got done PA couldn't do anything. She eventually got her license (btw, current license wasn't good enough, she needed her SS card too), but she spent an entire day there (possibly more - I can't find the post, but I think she had visited once and found out about the GA snafu, then had to go back again later).

My other aunt is in her 50s and just got her license. Not sure what she used as ID prior to that.

I don't want to do it for voting ID reasons, but I think there's a lot of sense in standardizing ID's. It's insane that my flimsy SS card with no picture is considered better proof in some instances than a driver's license. (Luckily I have a passport to skip all the SS card/birth certificate BS.) Maybe you could even tie it in with census's - you could apply anytime, but also when they do their census every 10 years they proactively registered people as well. That eliminates the "how could a bed ridden person with 3 jobs and no transportation ever get one" argument (btw, I don't think major cities are the place it's hard to get an ID, it's poor rural areas.)

We're trending towards a national ID card anyways, why not just go for it. If you want to opt out for separatist/anarchist reasons, go for it, but even as a fairly libertarian person (sorry for mentioning it Larry!) I have no problem saying that person shouldn't have a say in how our government is run.

Originally Posted by thesloppy

You don't need photo ID to fly, fwiw.

This doesn't sound right at all, but a perusal of the DHS website says you can verify your identity other ways? Have you actually done this or is it just theoretical (makes sense to have some option for a traveler who loses their ID)? But also with the emphasis on REAL ID being implemented soon I can't imagine it's an easy process.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

What, you don't still get carded? I have to show mine on every alcohol purchase here -- both retail & dining out -- even thought I'm pretty freakin' clearly past 21.

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Yeah, at some point a couple years ago Portland slipped into "every body gets carded every time" territory as well.

Massachusetts was much more strict than North Carolina has been, but even there different businesses had different standards, from "card under 30" to "just card everyone to prevent putting this 18 year old clerk from putting our company at liability". Hippie central Northampton also passed a town ordinance requiring stores to ID on EVERY tobacco purchase. I worked at a liquor store and we'd be able to sell alcohol elderly people but had to deny them tobacco. It was odd. (They also banned plastic bags. And the town of Concord banned the sale of bottled water - except on Patriots Day. Liberal do gooders come up with some fun regulations.)

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Serious question for everyone: how often do you use your ID in situations where a poor person wouldn't need to?

I use my driver's license...

--to drive, only if I get pulled over, of course
--to get on airplanes
--at Will Call when I buy tickets online to a sporting event or concert
--as identification when I recently bought a house
--at some places when I pay by credit card

What are the reasons an ID would be needed for a carless person who doesn't have a credit card and can't afford to fly, attend sporting events, or buy a house? I'm sure there are some; I'm just coming up blank right now.

I'm not sure one is needed, but it sure seems hard to be a productive member of society without one. I suppose elderly retiree is a good example, but they're presumably still tied in to the Social Security system. I guess you could do so living in a really rural area (or being Amish) and either working on a farm or doing web based contracting.

[tarcone]

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

But... emails!

Wait, am I doing that right?

Are people not allowed to use private email servers?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I cant see why a person would walk around with out ID. what if you die? Or get hurt and are unresponsive?

I go running, biking, kayaking a lot and find it annoying to even have keys in my pocket or on my waistband. Is that a good enough reason, or should I be getting my license/health card wet and risk losing it all the time?

[lungs]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I cant see why a person would walk around with out ID. what if you die? Or get hurt and are unresponsive?
Having ID in todays society is a must have.

I dunno, I was in a car accident recently and left unresponsive. They figured out who I was.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You have got to be shitting me...

Trump's most senior staff use a private email server

In a probably futile attempt to apply reason...

Originally Posted by Newsweek Article

Making use of separate political email accounts at the White House is not illegal. In fact, they serve a purpose by allowing staff to divide political conversations (say, arranging for the president to support a congressional re-election campaign) from actual White House work. Commingling politics and state business violates the Hatch Act, which restricts many executive branch employees from engaging in political activity on government time.

It’s not clear whether or how Trump staffers are using the RNC email addresses.

[JPhillips]

I expect they're using them exactly as the Bush admin folks did, as a way to do business with no traces left behind.

[JPhillips]

dola

The thing missing in the ID discussion is the fact that there isn't a good faith intention to make sure IDs are accessible for everyone. The whole point is to restrict voting. It's clear in the lack of evidence. It's clear in the added regulations written into these bills. It's clear in the statements made by supporters/authors of these bills.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

In a probably futile attempt to apply reason...

That's what I got out of it.

[molson]

You're not required to cancel all of your existing email accounts when you start working for the government.

I imagine most significant republicans have RNC email accounts, just like most significant Democrats, including those in the Obama administration, have DNC email accounts. But you're not supposed to conduct official government business through those accounts, or through private servers. The mere fact that they exist doesn't mean much.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I go running, biking, kayaking a lot and find it annoying to even have keys in my pocket or on my waistband. Is that a good enough reason, or should I be getting my license/health card wet and risk losing it all the time?

I do the same but keep keys/ID/credit cards in the pocket of my water bottle.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Are people not allowed to use private email servers?

I believe we went through an election where a bunch of people said no you aren't.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I believe we went through an election where a bunch of people said no you aren't.

No, we went through an election where a bunch of people said you can't conduct federal government business on one.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Having ID in todays society is a must have.

Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly. - The Washington Post

A federal court in Texas found that 608,470 registered voters don’t have the forms of identification that the state now requires for voting.

Across the country, about 11 percent of Americans do not have government-issued photo identification

A recent voter-ID study by political scientists at the University of California at San Diego analyzed turnout in elections between 2008 and 2012 and found “substantial drops in turnout for minorities under strict voter ID laws.”

Three courts have in fact struck down the voter-ID law in Texas

In 2012, a federal court in Washington concluded that the burden of obtaining a state voter-ID certificate would weigh disproportionately on minorities living in poverty, with many having to travel as much as 200 to 250 miles round trip.

“That law will almost certainly have retrogressive effect: it imposes strict, unforgiving burdens on the poor, and racial minorities in Texas are disproportionately likely to live in poverty,” wrote David S. Tatel, a judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, in the panel’s 56-page opinion.

There are a few anecdotes in that article about specific older folks who have expired forms of ID that aren't accepted and were unable to get a voter ID without legal help and paying fees of $250+ due to birth certificate issues, but studies and appeals court findings hopefully carry more weight than any anecdote so I quoted those instead.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I believe we went through an election where a bunch of people said no you aren't.

Yeah that's not true. There is enough legit stuff to be upset about without going after shitty headlines like this one if there isn't actually a legit legal issue here.

[ISiddiqui]

Never said they were doing anything wrong. But the hypocrisy is rich. And especially after the Administration has asserted that there isn't going to be any further investigations into Clinton, it seems obvious that the entire thing was a smokescreen.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

dola

The thing missing in the ID discussion is the fact that there isn't a good faith intention to make sure IDs are accessible for everyone. The whole point is to restrict voting. It's clear in the lack of evidence. It's clear in the added regulations written into these bills. It's clear in the statements made by supporters/authors of these bills.

There was an attempt at making IDs for everyone and Republicans fought against it.

[molson]

Ya, a lot of European countries have voter ID laws, but usually those are in countries were IDs are automatically issued to everyone. I get how that idea might have been scary a while ago, but in 2017, maybe it's time to just submit to technology and to the concept that we're all connected and a part of this country. Compulsory state and/or federal ID cards would probably make a lot of government functions and services a lot more efficient and inexpensive to run.

[ISiddiqui]

I would definitely support a universal ID paid for by the government which would then have to be used to vote. It can be issued to everyone at 16 then renewed at 18 and every 5-10 years after? With digital pictures that maybe can be taken in multiple government offices for no charge, you wouldn't have to worry about going to an office that may be 50 miles away at renewal as well.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[bronconick]

The problem with a national ID for voting is that voting and elections are run at the state level. The only thing the feds really have involved is the Constitution selecting the date.

[Easy Mac]

So what minority groups are left for him to go after in the next few hours? He's gone after hispanics, he's gone after Muslims, he's gone after blacks. Has he said anything about the LGBTs or disabled lately.

[Easy Mac]

So he wants this probed because of something Bernhard Langer said... of course a German spurs the downfall of our society.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Never said they were doing anything wrong. But the hypocrisy is rich. And especially after the Administration has asserted that there isn't going to be any further investigations into Clinton, it seems obvious that the entire thing was a smokescreen.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Clinton illegally used a private server for government business. Nothing in the article above suggests that the same is happening. The hypocrisy on this issue is your own invention.

[ISiddiqui]

Trump consistently attacked Clinton for her private email server simply because there might be something salacious. Remember his constant 'what happened to the 30,000 email' attacks? And conflating the DNC leaks of Podesta's (not a governmental employee) emails with Clinton's?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I believe we went through an election where a bunch of people said no you aren't.

Are you being obtuse on purpose?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I expect they're using them exactly as the Bush admin folks did, as a way to do business with no traces left behind.

Hahahahahaha.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by bronconick

The problem with a national ID for voting is that voting and elections are run at the state level. The only thing the feds really have involved is the Constitution selecting the date.

All voter ID laws allow for the use of a military ID as a form of identification. Something that is given out on the federal level. I have not seen a single elected official complain about this so I don't think that excuse will work.

[NobodyHere]

I gotta give GreenPeace an "A" for effort

Spoiled for size

Spoiler

But I don't know what this accomplishes.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Trump consistently attacked Clinton for her private email server simply because there might be something salacious. Remember his constant 'what happened to the 30,000 email' attacks? And conflating the DNC leaks of Podesta's (not a governmental employee) emails with Clinton's?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

The freaking FBI director said Clinton definitely behaved in an illegal manner and a regular citizen would be in jail for her actions.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Hahahahahaha.

Since 22 million emails were deleted, I guess we'll never know.

[JPhillips]

"Reimbursed in some form from whatever deal we make."

So whatever comes out of the NAFTA renegotiation will be called the payment for the wall?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

The freaking FBI director said Clinton definitely behaved in an illegal manner and a regular citizen would be in jail for her actions.

Except he never said that or anything close to that (hint: even 'extremely careless' doesn't mean illegal).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

The freaking FBI director said Clinton definitely behaved in an illegal manner and a regular citizen would be in jail for her actions.

No he did not.

[CrescentMoonie]

That's right, it was disciplinary sanction. It was also negligence due to lack of sophistication. None of that was even hinted at with the article cited above.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

No he did not.

Not did his statement less than two weeks before the election have any impact on voters.

[RainMaker]

I actually think he's mentally ill. Not even joking. He's talking about his appearance at the CIA.

[AlexB]

Most of the time with Trump I think that he's clearly unhinged, and that the US have lost all moral high ground to laugh at other countries with crazy leaders. Then I think in fact these other countries must be laughing even harder as the US actually voted for their crazy leader!

And yet he does say some things that I agree with, or are exagerrated things that I agree with, and I start to doubt myself...

Then you see something like the above, if that's even real, and you wonder if he's just shit-storming for the hell of it...

[jbergey22]

Someone needs to take Trumps pen away from him for awhile so he can have some time to think of the consequences of his actions thus far.

Too much too fast IMO.

[SirFozzie]

That could be a Trump endgame. Do everything via executive order, and then "see? I told you I could do it, it was easy" then resign and blame everything running aground on congress and the courts ruining his perfect plans.

[larrymcg421]

Is that Peyton's first Superbowl win or his second Superbowl win?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by AlexB

Most of the time with Trump I think that he's clearly unhinged, and that the US have lost all moral high ground to laugh at other countries with crazy leaders. Then I think in fact these other countries must be laughing even harder as the US actually voted for their crazy leader!

And yet he does say some things that I agree with, or are exagerrated things that I agree with, and I start to doubt myself...

Then you see something like the above, if that's even real, and you wonder if he's just shit-storming for the hell of it...

Same here. Like sometimes he articulates on an issue like the H1B visas and you're like maybe he's got good ideas and is just an over-the-top personality.

But read the transcript of the interview. He spends like 5 minutes talking about some ovation he got at the CIA. He insinuates that Obama won in 2008 because the election was rigged. Goes on and on about the inauguration attendance. Talks about committing war crimes and breaking international law. Says we should steal resources from sovereign allies. I honestly think he is mentally ill.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trans...ry?id=45047602

[bbgunn]

This is what I don't get. He graduated from Wharton at Penn, top of his class, right? Is that what a Penn education gets you?