NBC: Heroes

[TRO]

My biggest problem with the episode was the motivation of Sylar. Why would he go from being obsessed with the collection of powers to merely wanting to gain the power of the Presidency so that he could potentially exterminate the remaining Supers? That just seems completely out of character for him and destroys what makes him a great character.

[jeff061]

Maybe there comes a point where he has "enough" and wants to eliminate any potential threats.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Did we ever establish this? If we haven't, it's entirely plausible the Haitian has to know what and who he's trying to block from happening.

Also, it's been like 3-4 months since the encounter in Vegas, but were HRG/Haitian definitely after Nathan because they knew he had powers, or were they after him trying to figure out what he was doing around Linderman?

They were after him. They found him in bed with Nikki. Bennet made a comment something like "We only need him. We've already had her."

[Easy Mac]

I wouldn't think the Haitian could have blocked all of Peter's powers if he had to target his blocking powers. It would be easy to stop Hiro, or Hiro and someone else, but Peter could have had literally hundreds of powers by that time.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Did we ever establish this? If we haven't, it's entirely plausible the Haitian has to know what and who he's trying to block from happening.

Also, it's been like 3-4 months since the encounter in Vegas, but were HRG/Haitian definitely after Nathan because they knew he had powers, or were they after him trying to figure out what he was doing around Linderman?

As I said above, the Haitian blocked Matt's mind reading ability in one episode when he didn't know he was there (Matt and lady cop were tailing HRG and Matt tried to read his mind and was blocked because the Haitian was walking beside HRG).

I think it's probably more likely that the Haitian has a limited range for blocking a Hero's power and Nathan was just outside of it when he flew away in the episode where he got away. If I remember correctly, they pulled up pretty far away from Nathan before he flew away.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by Bee

If I remember correctly, they pulled up pretty far away from Nathan before he flew away.

No, they ran up to Nathan and had him cornered so to speak against the fence. They might have been all of 3 feet away from Nathan when Nathan flew away. Range wasn't an issue.

Maybe the Haitian can use his power when he feels like it, and he figured or hoped that Nathan wasn't going to use his power like that in public so he didn't have his "muting ability" on? Also, the Haitian may have been inadvertantly blocking Matts power when they were tailing HRG because the Haitian was muting Sylars powers at the same time?

[Bee]

Originally Posted by gottimd

No, they ran up to Nathan and had him cornered so to speak against the fence. They might have been all of 3 feet away from Nathan when Nathan flew away. Range wasn't an issue.

Maybe the Haitian can use his power when he feels like it, and he figured or hoped that Nathan wasn't going to use his power like that in public so he didn't have his "muting ability" on? Also, the Haitian may have been inadvertantly blocking Matts power when they were tailing HRG because the Haitian was muting Sylars powers at the same time?

Maybe it's an on/off thing then (sort of like the invisibility of Claude). I think that makes more sense than him having to concentrate on a certain person to block their powers.

[Travis]

So they're chasing Nathan, have him cornered and the Haitian just decides not to have his power "on" for whatever reason? Whether they knew he could fly or not, they obviously knew he had a power and if the guy is cornered and potentially going to lash out however he can, you don't mute him because...

Again, I really dig this show, I just hope moving forward they don't leave quite so much up in the air as they have this season. A lot of it seems to stem from convenience or potentially going with powers that are *too* strong that ends up hooping them later on.

They've also done a fantastic job with the promotion away from the show, the online content/side stuff is great. I think more than a few people will be disappointed to see everything they missed out on (not just the graphic novels) after this season when they go back to check out that content.

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by TRO

My biggest problem with the episode was the motivation of Sylar. Why would he go from being obsessed with the collection of powers to merely wanting to gain the power of the Presidency so that he could potentially exterminate the remaining Supers? That just seems completely out of character for him and destroys what makes him a great character.

Because he is only collecting the powers to be the most powerful person. He wanted to be special, the only one so once he got to be the President he had his ultimate power and then could just kill everyone.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by gottimd

And another point to this fact, why wouldn't future Hiro deduce that maybe he should teleport back and kill Ted? Or for that fact, travel back in time and kill Sylar before he even starts gathering powers?

when you get the same power as Hiro, i want you to teleport to the time when i got into an eye accident so i don't wind up having bad vision.

what's that? you don't know when/where that happened? gotcha.


see? Hiro isn't all-knowing. hence the timeline he had to construct to be able to know when/where to teleport to. i like that kink in his power, or else he becomes waaay to powerful. cuz if not, he could have teleported back to when Eve ate the fruit and we all would be living in Paradise.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

when you get the same power as Hiro, i want you to teleport to the time when i got into an eye accident so i don't wind up having bad vision.

what's that? you don't know when/where that happened? gotcha.

Maybe I do know.

Well if I didn't, it would be easy to find out. I'd go back in time, by making a guess. I'd go back in time to every hospital or your old neighborhood, and gather information about you slowly. Break into your house as time is frozen and do some research. Sure it will take a long time to find out rather than knowing, but I could find out.

Maybe just for kicks, I'd stay around for your eye injury, and once it happened, I would walk up to you and tell you to cowboy up. And as I walked away to teleport back, I'd throw you a Dean Houston jersey that I had custom made.

[Anthony]

i wonder if 2 Hiro's at once is the limit, or if there can possibly be a scenario where there are literally hundreds of Hiro's, all from a different point in time, all appearing together on the same day. that'd be awesome.

and i thoroughly like Future Peter Petrelli. i didn't notice the bad acting. the face-off between Sylar and Peter was fantastic. overall this episode was my favorite of all time for any show. they really should focus a little more on Future Heroes. and what the show needs is more Hero vs. Villain action. for just a tv show they have some surprisingly nice special effects.

[Izulde]

Interesting episode. The incestuous sexual tension between Claire and Peter was frigging hilarious and it gleefully ran throughout the entire episode.

I found the scenes with Sylar and his mom absolutely fascinating and I think they help explain a lot of how he turned out the way he did.

The ending of the episode could've been better done. I didn't feel a real sense of urgency from anyone and didn't have that "uh oh!" feeling they probably intended.

[Richard Weed]

Claire should've been "What are you doing with these guys Dad?"

[ISiddiqui]

And to think the bomb could have been stopped if Sylar's mom just said it was ok to be a clockmaker . I seriously doubt that Peter is the bomb now, especially since there are 2 eps left and they aren't just going to show him pulsating for 2 episodes.

It looks like it'll be Sylar, which seemed to be the thought of most people in future world, but Peter was the bomb in that timeline. I'm not sure that Hiro messing up killing Sylar would have changed things so much to make Sylar into the bomb.

Though it does seem "The Company" knows what it is doing. And Ma Petrelli, rather than being the head of a rival group, works with Linderman. It seems they are setting Nathan up and realize that Sylar is going to take over Nathan's body eventually. But what reason they are interested in using a hero-bomb over NYC resulting in a culture of fear designed to round up heroes is something that'll probably be revealed in the future.

[Mr. Wednesday]

It seems unlikely to me that they would want Sylar in the White House. I think Linderman's machinations are trying to drive Nathan into the presidency, to have a sympathetic ear in place when the "heroes" are revealed to the world (as well as the fear needed to remain in control).

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

It seems unlikely to me that they would want Sylar in the White House. I think Linderman's machinations are trying to drive Nathan into the presidency, to have a sympathetic ear in place when the "heroes" are revealed to the world (as well as the fear needed to remain in control).

Though it did appear that Ma Petrelli spoke of Nathan making a sacrifice for the cause. And The Company knows so much about the future, you'd think Sylar taking over Nathan's body would come up. If not, you wonder why there was such a gap in their future knowledge?

I'd also think that it'd be easier for the heroes to be looked at sympathetically if one of them didn't destroy NYC.

[Doug5984]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Though it did appear that Ma Petrelli spoke of Nathan making a sacrifice for the cause. And The Company knows so much about the future, you'd think Sylar taking over Nathan's body would come up. If not, you wonder why there was such a gap in their future knowledge?

I'd also think that it'd be easier for the heroes to be looked at sympathetically if one of them didn't destroy NYC.

I took the sacrifice to mean allowing the bomb to go off.

I haven't posted in this thread before, but I've been addicted to the show for quite some time now and I really enjoyed tonights episode. I really like what they did with Sylar- even though the snow globe scene was just really strange.

If I didn't know Peter was Claire's uncle I'd say they were trying to set up a relationship between the two.

I'm going to be out of town next monday, but will do whatever I can to be around a TV...The show is just that good.

[Mr. Wednesday]

At a guess, they want to build a strong brother-sister relationship between Peter and Claire.

The Linderman group shouldn't have any knowledge of the future beyond that painted by Isaac (and any other previous seers). I don't think he ever identified Sylar in the White House, although one of the paintings might have been ambiguous about it. I'd guess the Linderman group is arrogant enough to think they can control Sylar, and the dystopia was/is what ensued/ensues when they were/are wrong.

[gottimd]

Gottimd's thoughts on the Season Finale....

Spoiler

I think both Peter and Sylar are the bomb, but only Sylar is the actual bomb. My thought is, is that Sylar will somehow kill Candice (shapeshifter) after molly identifies where the boogey man is. The company will send Candice to lure Sylar somewhere but Candice will probably change into his mother not knowing that she is dead, which will tip Sylar off, and he will kill her. I am then thinking Sylar will have one more confrontation with Peter and it will come to a draw and both will leave the fight wounded and beat. Sylar will then decide that the only way to defeat Peter is to have the public on his side, and somehow shift into Peter and blow up. This is why Peter believes he blows up, because in his dreams he is seeing Sylar as Peter blowing up, and also fits the reason why Sylar knows that he kills alot of people.

[jeff061]

I thought it was interesting that the girl doesn't take the shapes of others, but actually has the ability to control what people see. Did I miss that in a earlier episode or was that a new revelation?

Edit: Or was that a different girl altogether?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Gottimd's thoughts on the Season Finale....

Spoiler

I think both Peter and Sylar are the bomb, but only Sylar is the actual bomb. My thought is, is that Sylar will somehow kill Candice (shapeshifter) after molly identifies where the boogey man is. The company will send Candice to lure Sylar somewhere but Candice will probably change into his mother not knowing that she is dead, which will tip Sylar off, and he will kill her. I am then thinking Sylar will have one more confrontation with Peter and it will come to a draw and both will leave the fight wounded and beat. Sylar will then decide that the only way to defeat Peter is to have the public on his side, and somehow shift into Peter and blow up. This is why Peter believes he blows up, because in his dreams he is seeing Sylar as Peter blowing up, and also fits the reason why Sylar knows that he kills alot of people.

I can see that happening. Very nice.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I thought it was interesting that the girl doesn't take the shapes of others, but actually has the ability to control what people see. Did I miss that in a earlier episode or was that a new revelation?

Edit: Or was that a different girl altogether?

Candace has the power of illusion. She is able to take the form of other people and change her surroundings to complete the illusion.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I can see that happening. Very nice.

Thanks! Complete guess but I could see it panning out that way.

Can someone please verify this, Ted can get to bomb like status and burn/destory everything around him and survive, correct? Didn't he do that to Bennets House?

Not a spoiler, just a question about last nights episode....

Spoiler

How did Sylar unfreeze time when Hiro came in, can someone explain that?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Thanks! Complete guess but I could see it panning out that way.

Can someone please verify this, Ted can get to bomb like status and burn/destory everything around him and survive, correct? Didn't he do that to Bennets House?

Not a spoiler, just a question about last nights episode....

Spoiler

How did Sylar unfreeze time when Hiro came in, can someone explain that?

This is something that I am wondering about as well. The only thing I can come up with is that he didn't go totally nuclear at the Bennett house. Unless, the person with the nuclear power doesn't die when they go nuclear.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

The Linderman group shouldn't have any knowledge of the future beyond that painted by Isaac (and any other previous seers). I don't think he ever identified Sylar in the White House, although one of the paintings might have been ambiguous about it. I'd guess the Linderman group is arrogant enough to think they can control Sylar, and the dystopia was/is what ensued/ensues when they were/are wrong.

That's my reading of it. The Company thinks they can control Sylar once he takes the reigns... or at least use his goals of eliminating other Heroes. Remember the "Linderman Act" is intended for all Heroes to register with the government, so I don't think Linderman is for the nice Heroes and humans to live together in peace idea. I think its far more sinister than that.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Gottimd's thoughts on the Season Finale....

Spoiler

I think both Peter and Sylar are the bomb, but only Sylar is the actual bomb. My thought is, is that Sylar will somehow kill Candice (shapeshifter) after molly identifies where the boogey man is. The company will send Candice to lure Sylar somewhere but Candice will probably change into his mother not knowing that she is dead, which will tip Sylar off, and he will kill her. I am then thinking Sylar will have one more confrontation with Peter and it will come to a draw and both will leave the fight wounded and beat. Sylar will then decide that the only way to defeat Peter is to have the public on his side, and somehow shift into Peter and blow up. This is why Peter believes he blows up, because in his dreams he is seeing Sylar as Peter blowing up, and also fits the reason why Sylar knows that he kills alot of people.

Spoiler

The only issue is that Sylar hasn't got Claire's power, so doing so would destroy him... unless Linderman can heal someone who is in many different pieces spread out over the ruins of NY

[Richard Weed]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Thanks! Complete guess but I could see it panning out that way.

Can someone please verify this, Ted can get to bomb like status and burn/destory everything around him and survive, correct? Didn't he do that to Bennets House?

Not a spoiler, just a question about last nights episode....

Spoiler

How did Sylar unfreeze time when Hiro came in, can someone explain that?

I don't think Sylar unfroze time. I think Hiro unfroze it at the last instant. Didn't he say that he couldn't kill Sylar?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Not a spoiler, just a question about last nights episode....

Spoiler

How did Sylar unfreeze time when Hiro came in, can someone explain that?

Since this already happened in the episode, I won't use spoiler tags:

Sylar DID NOT unfreeze time. As Hiro says to Ando afterwards, he just couldn't do it. Hiro lost focus.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Spoiler

The only issue is that Sylar hasn't got Claire's power, so doing so would destroy him... unless Linderman can heal someone who is in many different pieces spread out over the ruins of NY

Spoiler

you are assuming that Ted/Sylar will die if he explodes everything around him. We don't know that for sure. He has incinerated many things thus far and comes out of it perfectly fine.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by Richard Weed

I don't think Sylar unfroze time. I think Hiro unfroze it at the last instant. Didn't he say that he couldn't kill Sylar?

Well if he unfroze time, why didn't the mother continue to fall, she stayed in place, only Sylar moved.

[Richard Weed]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Well if he unfroze time, why didn't the mother continue to fall, she stayed in place, only Sylar moved.

Good point. Maybe Sylar kept her there with his telekinesis?

On an entirely different note, I thought it was hilarious when they showed a picture of Gabriel as a boy and he had those black thick eyebrows. Heh.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Sylar DID NOT unfreeze time. As Hiro says to Ando afterwards, he just couldn't do it. Hiro lost focus.

So doesn't this play onto the previous discussion in the thread about the Haitian. Powers are based on focus? Everything else remained frozen in the scene except for Sylar, Hiro and Ando. The funny thing about it is, wasn't Sylar his main focus? Why would everything else remain frozen if his main focus was unfrozen.

[Celeval]

It could have been a slow loss of focus...? I chalk that up to dramatic license.

[gottimd]

Another theory I have is that Hiro, after being ashamed of not being able to accomplish his goal, goes way back to Ancient times and trains as a Samurai, thus creating the legend of the Kensei (or whatever the person with the swords name is). Would that cause some sort of time rift though?

[gottimd]

Another thing, now that Sylar knows the asian guy can teleport, won't he be after him now? How is Hiro going to fix that sword? Teleport somewhere and get another one?

If being a hero is hereditary, wouldn't that mean Hiro's father (Takei) or his mother had a power? Why aren't they concerned or at least a bit curious about their own lineages and maybe finding out what their parents abilities were, if it is truly hereditary (I think mohinder keeps mentioning this fact)?

Once Hiro finds out what Peters ability is, do you think they could teleport to the future, get Peter close to Future Sylar, grab all of his powers, teleport back in the past and fight him? The show is starting to open up some holes in its plot/theories and I hope they don't leave too much to be answered as the seasons progress.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by gottimd

If being a hero is hereditary, wouldn't that mean Hiro's father (Takei) or his mother had a power? Why aren't they concerned or at least a bit curious about their own lineages and maybe finding out what their parents abilities were, if it is truly hereditary (I think mohinder keeps mentioning this fact)?

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure this is addressed in detail next week.

Even bigger

Spoiler

Takei does have a power, and supposedly will be one of the main focuses of next season.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Another thing, now that Sylar knows the asian guy can teleport, won't he be after him now? How is Hiro going to fix that sword? Teleport somewhere and get another one?

From the "Next week on Heroes":

Spoiler

It appears that Hiro's father comes at Hiro with a samurai sword. Hiro may take that one as his own

Once Hiro finds out what Peters ability is, do you think they could teleport to the future, get Peter close to Future Sylar, grab all of his powers, teleport back in the past and fight him? The show is starting to open up some holes in its plot/theories and I hope they don't leave too much to be answered as the seasons progress.

Spoiler

Rumor has it that this story line will be wrapped up THIS season. And future seasons will involve a different cast... with perhaps some cameos from this cast... and a different problem

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Since this already happened in the episode, I won't use spoiler tags:

Sylar DID NOT unfreeze time. As Hiro says to Ando afterwards, he just couldn't do it. Hiro lost focus.

Exactly. Hiro's "flaw" is his conscience. If he didn't have that flaw, I think his power would be very unbalancing and it also makes him my favorite character.

I really enjoyed the Sylar backstory and the delving into the psychology of the character some more. Another highly entertaining episode last night.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Once Hiro finds out what Peters ability is, do you think they could teleport to the future, get Peter close to Future Sylar, grab all of his powers, teleport back in the past and fight him? The show is starting to open up some holes in its plot/theories and I hope they don't leave too much to be answered as the seasons progress.

I don't think that Hiro has that level of control over the "where/when" in his teleporting yet. Plus, it seems like that was what the "future hiro" was trying to do with the cheerleader line.

I think the bigger point here is that Sylar isn't the only "bad guy". Linderman, Ma Patrelli, Nathan and others have a lot vested in this bomb. If Sylar got killed off early on, I'm guessing they would just switch tactics and try another hero/situation to get a similar level of destruction. I'm guessing that's what Hiro learned in the future and that's why he knew they had to stop Sylar once the "linderman plan" was rolling - not years before.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

That's my reading of it. The Company thinks they can control Sylar once he takes the reigns...

Given what Linderman is and some of the key features of his organization, I have a hard time believing that he'd want Sylar in a position of power. My read on Linderman is that he's pro-mutant, and is trying to manipulate events to get a post-revelation situation... one where he has a sympathetic mutant (Nathan) in the White House. While it's possible that they expect Sylar to stand in for Nathan, I'm not as certain whether that squares with the organization's goals... and as conniving as Mrs. Petrelli has been, there's no reason to think that she has anything other than her son in mind.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Arles

I think the bigger point here is that Sylar isn't the only "bad guy". Linderman, Ma Patrelli, Nathan and others have a lot vested in this bomb. If Sylar got killed off early on, I'm guessing they would just switch tactics and try another hero/situation to get a similar level of destruction.

I'm not sure that Sylar has ever been principally involved in the explosion. His reaction to the revelation that he might be would tend to reinforce that impression.

I'm guessing that's what Hiro learned in the future and that's why he knew they had to stop Sylar once the "linderman plan" was rolling - not years before.

Hiro "learned" that Sylar had been the exploding man in the future, but that wasn't actually true, it was just the cover story. Although we found out that Sylar-as-Nathan was at the heart of the future dystopia, neither of the characters who were going back saw that. I still think that the Sylar problem must be dealt with to secure the future, but is independent of the bomb itself, except to the extent that Sylar himself "switches sides" and attempts to stop it.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

My read on Linderman is that he's pro-mutant, and is trying to manipulate events to get a post-revelation situation... one where he has a sympathetic mutant (Nathan) in the White House.

From what I gather from Lindermans back story, I tend to agree with you on that. I think Linderman is more of a Professor Xavier type of character, and wants what is best for Humanity.

The thing I am struggling with as well is Ma Petrelli. Didn't Linderman kill her Husband? Or was that some sort of set up, because one would think if Linderman killed her husband she wouldn't be working with him, that is unless of course, Pa Petrelli was supposed to be the "one", and killed himself?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I thought it was interesting that the girl doesn't take the shapes of others, but actually has the ability to control what people see. Did I miss that in a earlier episode or was that a new revelation?

Up until this point, it had always played like she was a shapeshifter. This was the first time we saw the full extent of her capabilities.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Up until this point, it had always played like she was a shapeshifter. This was the first time we saw the full extent of her capabilities.

Another reason why I think her character needs to go. That is way too powerful to be able to bend other things around you even if you are not near her. She was in the shower (why didn't they pan to her then! ) and all the hallways changed shape in Micah's eyes.

Well then why can't she, once she learns her power even more (or Sylar), make it look like the whole city was incinerated?

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Another reason why I think her character needs to go. That is way too powerful to be able to bend other things around you even if you are not near her. She was in the shower (why didn't they pan to her then! ) and all the hallways changed shape in Micah's eyes.

Well then why can't she, once she learns her power even more (or Sylar), make it look like the whole city was incinerated?

Well, it could very well be that her abilities depend on the strength of the mind she's trying to influence. A little kid alone and frightened may be more easily deceived by her illusions (not to mention he was her sole focus for her abilities during her babysitting). I don't think she'd have the power to fool everybody the world over that New York was destroyed. Perhaps she (or Sylar, if you will) could do it momentarily, but the destruction of a city is a rather permanent thing. To what end would anyone profit from an illusion of a city's destruction only to restore it at some later point?

[Swaggs]

Kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, but I wonder if Hiro ages when he spends time in different times. For example, it appears that he went back and spent several months with Charlie (the waitress), but the entire time he was gone took less than a day in the "real" timeline, as Ando waited in the restaurant for him.

[Swaggs]

Also, any theories on why Linderman needs Micah? What type of machine does he need control over?

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm guessing (as someone else already pointed out) that he needs him to rig the election.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Given what Linderman is and some of the key features of his organization, I have a hard time believing that he'd want Sylar in a position of power. My read on Linderman is that he's pro-mutant, and is trying to manipulate events to get a post-revelation situation... one where he has a sympathetic mutant (Nathan) in the White House. While it's possible that they expect Sylar to stand in for Nathan, I'm not as certain whether that squares with the organization's goals... and as conniving as Mrs. Petrelli has been, there's no reason to think that she has anything other than her son in mind.

Based on the Linderman Act and the fact he wants to blow up NYC using a mutant, I doubt it. I don't see Linderman as some pro-mutant guy who is just trying to get a sympathetic mutant in the main position. It'd be easier to do so without having a mutant blow up NYC and then pass a law requiring mutants register.

The fear generated after such an attack would be directed towards the mutants, no doubt. Why subject them to such fear if he wanted to help them? Much easier for folks to accept mutants if they didn't blow up a city of 8 million to smithereens.