Werewolf XXVIII: Mad Wizard and the Wolves (Game over Pg45) - Page 33

hoopsguy · 06-06-2006, 07:29 PM

Repost from #1, for wolf victory conditions:

The game will go until the Wizard flees, The Wizard and his henchmen outnumber the remaining Wolves (or a 1v1 basis), or the Wizard and his henchmen are all killed.

Victory Conditions:

Quote:

Complete Victory: Wizard and henchmen killed, Wolf Boss stays alive
Moderate Victory: Wizard Flees, Henchmen killed, Wolf Boss stays alive
Moderate Victory: Wizard and henchmen Killed, Wolf Boss is killed
Light Victory: Wizard Flees, Henchmen Killed, Wolf Boss is Killed

Thoughts:
1.) It doesn't look like the wizard flees until we get the henchmen.
2.) I wonder if the wizard automatically flees when we get the henchmen, or if he has the opportunity to stay and battle longer?
3.) The language here is "Wolf Boss" - not Alpha Wolf specifically. I know I posted on Alpha wolf because it was in my role description (looking for one to guard after seeing one from other pack die) and I believe someone else had introduced the phrase before me on Day 3. But the victory conditions do not explicitly list this role.

hoopsguy · 06-06-2006, 07:29 PM

Dola - bad quote, should have included the line above it as well.

Alan T · 06-06-2006, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Repost from #1, for wolf victory conditions:

The game will go until the Wizard flees, The Wizard and his henchmen outnumber the remaining Wolves (or a 1v1 basis), or the Wizard and his henchmen are all killed.

Victory Conditions:

Thoughts:
1.) It doesn't look like the wizard flees until we get the henchmen.
2.) I wonder if the wizard automatically flees when we get the henchmen, or if he has the opportunity to stay and battle longer?
3.) The language here is "Wolf Boss" - not Alpha Wolf specifically. I know I posted on Alpha wolf because it was in my role description (looking for one to guard after seeing one from other pack die) and I believe someone else had introduced the phrase before me on Day 3. But the victory conditions do not explicitly list this role.

Ok, so I think I see where you are going with this. I guess the question is the term pack alpha used anywhere in the game by fozzie?

Now to be the devil's advocate here, you already said in your role the term pack alpha was used, so if we are to believe you (which it seems we should now), I think that is a Fozzie term officially in this game.

Tyrith · 06-06-2006, 07:38 PM

The wizard can flee as a night according to a Fozzie post on page 1 or 2, but we have to get all the bad guys to win the game regardless.

hoopsguy · 06-06-2006, 07:54 PM

I'm not sure if alpha is an official role, but I suspect it is.

I'm fine with having some uncertainty here if it makes life tougher for the wizards.

st.cronin · 06-06-2006, 07:58 PM

Hoopsguy, can you post a suspect list for me, in some sort of order of suspicion?

Blade6119 · 06-06-2006, 07:58 PM

Tick Tock, someones gonna die

SackAttack · 06-06-2006, 07:59 PM

Blade, you have no equal when it comes to pointing out the inanely obvious.

st.cronin · 06-06-2006, 08:01 PM

"inanely obvious"

I like that.

SirFozzie · 06-06-2006, 08:01 PM

we are in the final hour.

The Law has been set.

st.cronin · 06-06-2006, 08:02 PM

I have the rule, guys - voting rules as normal. So, unless things change, Schmidty's head is on the block.

saldana · 06-06-2006, 08:03 PM

well thats an anti-climax if i ever saw one.

st.cronin · 06-06-2006, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

well thats an anti-climax if i ever saw one.

No kidding. I'm curious to see what, if anything, happens now.

Alan T · 06-06-2006, 08:07 PM

Foz, you remind me of this girl in school long ago. She liked to tease alot.

hoopsguy · 06-06-2006, 08:09 PM

Cronin, here is what I think for the suspect list:

Least trusted - Schmidty/Tyrith
Next level down - AlanT
Middle of the pack - Sack, Coffee
Moving towards trust - Lathum (based on your strong vouch), Saldana
Pretty highly trusted - Barkeep
Almost 100% trusted - Cronin
Complete trust - self

Barkeep was cross-trusted by you and Saldana/Coffee, so that separates him a little bit from the other two in that pseudo-triumvirate.

Barkeep is more confident in Saldana than Coffee, so he moves up the list a little bit. Coffee is lower because he hasn't been able to play along with the role game with Saldana/Barkeep but he isn't a henchman, per your logic.

The three guys who can't be vouched for up to this point are at the bottom of the list. If no one trusts AlanT's reveal, I place it alongside Tyrith in terms of risk/reward for the lynch - doesn't sound like a role we are screwed if we lose at this point.

st.cronin · 06-06-2006, 08:10 PM

Do you think Tyrith or Schmidty is most likely to be a bad guy?

hoopsguy · 06-06-2006, 08:10 PM

If we want to make a play at the wizard, we could try to set up a tie between people who are not yet trusted. Let AlanT show us his tie-breaker ability, which should be in play with normal rules (right?) ...

st.cronin · 06-06-2006, 08:11 PM

In other words, how much do you trust your list?

SackAttack · 06-06-2006, 08:12 PM

hoops, if you've guarded cronin in the past, and he's been attacked, why isn't he 100% yet?

hoopsguy · 06-06-2006, 08:14 PM

Push comes to shove, I've voted Tyrith for a couple of days now and would probably go that way. I think it would feed in nicely with Blade's "traitor" language from Night 2 as well.

But I've been pretty damn wrong with my "distrust list" all game, so I've been less likely to charge windmills alone as the game has progressed.

st.cronin · 06-06-2006, 08:16 PM

Lathum, what would it take to get you to vote for Tyrith or Schmidty?

hoopsguy · 06-06-2006, 08:16 PM

Sack, I've guarded him twice. I strongly believe he is good, particularly as I was told I drove off an attack on him last night. I haven't seen a game yet that allowed a mechanic to fake out the bodyguard. So Cronin is a 99% for me - for all intents and purposes he is absolute trust for me and I probably should have written it that way.

SackAttack · 06-06-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Sack, I've guarded him twice. I strongly believe he is good, particularly as I was told I drove off an attack on him last night. I haven't seen a game yet that allowed a mechanic to fake out the bodyguard. So Cronin is a 99% for me - for all intents and purposes he is absolute trust for me and I probably should have written it that way.

That's what I would have thought. That's why I was a little surprised to see it at "almost 100%."

I guess you can't rule anything out where Fozzie is concerned.

As far as your windmills, Tyrith is only one vote behind as of the last vote count I see, and both he and Schmidty have yet to vote. Would only require one vote to change from somebody else to Tyrith to support your "windmill charge."

Lathum · 06-06-2006, 08:19 PM

Unvote Lathum

Schmidty · 06-06-2006, 08:20 PM

Do you guys think I would be this stupid if I were not a wolf?

Oh yeah, you probably would.

Alan T · 06-06-2006, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If we want to make a play at the wizard, we could try to set up a tie between people who are not yet trusted. Let AlanT show us his tie-breaker ability, which should be in play with normal rules (right?) ...

Sure, I am up for that if you want. I assume it works if normal rules are in effect. Right now I am on Tyrith, so i can't force a tie by myself. However, I think we need to make sure that if we try this, that it is setup between Schmidty and Tyrith, and get Lathum out of harms way

hoopsguy · 06-06-2006, 08:21 PM

Cronin, I'm interested in seeing what you do with your Lathum vote here.

AlanT, do you know if you have your tie-breaker ability tonight since we are back to playing by normal rules?

Lathum · 06-06-2006, 08:22 PM

OK, I am not really sold on schmidty being a baddie here, there is something about the title of his role that made me think. Right now I am leaning towards voting for schmidty unless he reveals more than just his title.

I am also not sold on the saldana/barkeep/cw thing.

SackAttack · 06-06-2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

Sure, I am up for that if you want. I assume it works if normal rules are in effect. Right now I am on Tyrith, so i can't force a tie by myself. However, I think we need to make sure that if we try this, that it is setup between Schmidty and Tyrith, and get Lathum out of harms way

Who's on Tyrith and who's on Schmidty? Do we have a count that shows that? All I've seen is the number of votes each person has.

st.cronin · 06-06-2006, 08:24 PM

My vote stays on Lathum, but don't worry about that. I'll explain after the deadline.

Schmidty · 06-06-2006, 08:24 PM

By the way, my belated answer to Alan's question: I still don't have a trust list. Everyone's been out to get me since day 2. The only person I half-believe is hoops, and even that is marred with second-guessing myself.

I don't want to lie: I AM NOT GOING TO MAKE UP SOME FAKE "TRUST LIST" O SAVE MY ASS. IT"S STUPID.

Yes, I'm tipsy. It's been a long day.

hoopsguy · 06-06-2006, 08:24 PM

Lathum, working through the Saldana/BK/CW deal - do you call BS on the whole thing or are you singling out a specific player?

Alan T · 06-06-2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Cronin, I'm interested in seeing what you do with your Lathum vote here.

AlanT, do you know if you have your tie-breaker ability tonight since we are back to playing by normal rules?

I was told in PM that there were some things that even my luck couldn't protect me from, and assumed that meant after yesterday my role was not intact anymore. I was told if the law was restored, then I would get my ability back. I assumed all day that meant if we did something to return the game to normal voting rules (by killing the wizard or who knows what). Maybe it just meant this. I have to admit that before Cronin said earlier that the rules could still be normal, I did not believe that. My impression that the rules would change all together.

If I had to guess, then my tiebreaker is in effect as long as the voting rules are normal. (Fozzie said earlier in the thread that normal roles would count in this case I believe)...

Lathum · 06-06-2006, 08:25 PM

VOTE SCHMIDTY

subject to change if details of his role match up with my theory.

Schmidty · 06-06-2006, 08:25 PM

That should be:

"I don't want to lie: I AM NOT GOING TO MAKE UP SOME FAKE "TRUST LIST" TO SAVE MY ASS. IT'S STUPID."

My bad.

Lathum · 06-06-2006, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Lathum, working through the Saldana/BK/CW deal - do you call BS on the whole thing or are you singling out a specific player?

I'm not calling BS it just seems odd that 3 people would be "linkled" like that somehow and to be honest with you I can't even remember how the trio came to be. I need to go back and sift through the posts but I think for now it is a mute point.

Schmidty · 06-06-2006, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

VOTE SCHMIDTY

subject to change if details of his role match up with my theory.

You chose poorly.

It's probably my own fault. I've played like crap this game, and I'm kind of embarrased..

I'm not allowed to specifically quote my role, but the gist (?) of it is that I don't have any powers unless the Alpha dies. If he does, I am basically him in regard to his role's abilities. I don't know who the Alpha is (I asked) and I don't know what his powers are.

That's it.

I'm really sorry wolves.

st.cronin · 06-06-2006, 08:29 PM

Coffee interests me, as a potential wizard. Right now we (probably) have 1 henchman and 1 wizard left.

saldana · 06-06-2006, 08:33 PM

coffee interests me as well, and will probably get my vote tomorrow unless something changes....he has been totally unable to pick up on what barkeep and i found rather easy to see in each others posts, and he hasnt posted anything that hasnt been a basic rephrase of something i have already said.

SackAttack · 06-06-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Coffee interests me, as a potential wizard. Right now we (probably) have 1 henchman and 1 wizard left.

I would agree. My only thought is, let's say Schmidty is being truthful about being the Beta wolf and what it means to the power dynamic.

Do the humans have a similar role? Is that role filled by the one presumptive henchman, or is there another we're overlooking?

Or is that just a dynamic intended to help the wolves, since the "villagers" haven't done so well in the games I've followed of late?

st.cronin · 06-06-2006, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I would agree. My only thought is, let's say Schmidty is being truthful about being the Beta wolf and what it means to the power dynamic.

Do the humans have a similar role? Is that role filled by the one presumptive henchman, or is there another we're overlooking?

Or is that just a dynamic intended to help the wolves, since the "villagers" haven't done so well in the games I've followed of late?

Even if there is, what difference does it make?

hoopsguy · 06-06-2006, 08:38 PM

Someone have a vote count?

st.cronin · 06-06-2006, 08:38 PM

dola

I mean in terms of our voting logic, either today or tomorrow.

SackAttack · 06-06-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Even if there is, what difference does it make?

It doesn't. But it's something to consider that I certainly hadn't thought about, and there's always the possibility that it might play into the saldana/CW/BK thing.

hoopsguy · 06-06-2006, 08:42 PM

If we don't feel like we are in end game mode, then I would suggest weighing the risk/reward strategies with AlanT and Tyrith against Schmidty.

Neither of those guys is the alpha wolf, unless they have been incredibly cagey about it up to this point.

If Schmidty is to be believed, the opposition will have to get through both the alpha and him before they can take out this role. And they are probably going to want to get Cronin at some point as well.

I don't think they number more than three at this point in the game, given that we got one last night so I don't think we are in an end-game scenario here.

Just something to mull over - if people are pretty damn confident on Schmidty being a human and that his reveal is BS then please disregard this. It is only intended as advice for someone flipping a coin between equal candidates as I am at the moment.

Lathum · 06-06-2006, 08:43 PM

UNVOTE SCHMIDTY

he gave me what I needed.

SackAttack · 06-06-2006, 08:43 PM

I have to go. Running way late for an appointment.

With my uncertainty on Schmidty, I'm going to leave my vote as is.

Good luck, guys. Get us a human.

st.cronin · 06-06-2006, 08:44 PM

hoopsguy, last vote right now is on Schmidty, plus he leads in actual votes

Lathum · 06-06-2006, 08:45 PM

VOTE TYRITH

he is my next best choice

hoopsguy · 06-06-2006, 08:47 PM

Cronin, do you have the full vote list? I'm compiling it in parallel with this but would rather spend time talking votes than collecting this at the moment if you already have this and can cut/paste it in here.

06-06-2006, 07:58 PM	#1606
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Hoopsguy, can you post a suspect list for me, in some sort of order of suspicion? __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

06-06-2006, 07:58 PM	#1607
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	Tick Tock, someones gonna die __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

06-06-2006, 08:01 PM	#1609
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	"inanely obvious" I like that. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

06-06-2006, 08:01 PM	#1610
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	we are in the final hour. The Law has been set. __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

06-06-2006, 08:02 PM	#1611
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I have the rule, guys - voting rules as normal. So, unless things change, Schmidty's head is on the block. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

06-06-2006, 07:29 PM	#1602
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Dola - bad quote, should have included the line above it as well.

06-06-2006, 07:38 PM	#1604
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	The wizard can flee as a night according to a Fozzie post on page 1 or 2, but we have to get all the bad guys to win the game regardless.

06-06-2006, 07:54 PM	#1605
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I'm not sure if alpha is an official role, but I suspect it is. I'm fine with having some uncertainty here if it makes life tougher for the wizards.

06-06-2006, 07:59 PM	#1608
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	Blade, you have no equal when it comes to pointing out the inanely obvious.

06-06-2006, 08:03 PM	#1612
saldana Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bethlehem, Pa	well thats an anti-climax if i ever saw one.

06-06-2006, 08:07 PM	#1614
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Foz, you remind me of this girl in school long ago. She liked to tease alot.

06-06-2006, 08:09 PM	#1615
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Cronin, here is what I think for the suspect list: Least trusted - Schmidty/Tyrith Next level down - AlanT Middle of the pack - Sack, Coffee Moving towards trust - Lathum (based on your strong vouch), Saldana Pretty highly trusted - Barkeep Almost 100% trusted - Cronin Complete trust - self Barkeep was cross-trusted by you and Saldana/Coffee, so that separates him a little bit from the other two in that pseudo-triumvirate. Barkeep is more confident in Saldana than Coffee, so he moves up the list a little bit. Coffee is lower because he hasn't been able to play along with the role game with Saldana/Barkeep but he isn't a henchman, per your logic. The three guys who can't be vouched for up to this point are at the bottom of the list. If no one trusts AlanT's reveal, I place it alongside Tyrith in terms of risk/reward for the lynch - doesn't sound like a role we are screwed if we lose at this point.

06-06-2006, 08:10 PM	#1616
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Do you think Tyrith or Schmidty is most likely to be a bad guy? __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

06-06-2006, 08:10 PM	#1617
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	If we want to make a play at the wizard, we could try to set up a tie between people who are not yet trusted. Let AlanT show us his tie-breaker ability, which should be in play with normal rules (right?) ...

06-06-2006, 08:11 PM	#1618
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	In other words, how much do you trust your list? __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

06-06-2006, 08:12 PM	#1619
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	hoops, if you've guarded cronin in the past, and he's been attacked, why isn't he 100% yet?

06-06-2006, 08:14 PM	#1620
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Push comes to shove, I've voted Tyrith for a couple of days now and would probably go that way. I think it would feed in nicely with Blade's "traitor" language from Night 2 as well. But I've been pretty damn wrong with my "distrust list" all game, so I've been less likely to charge windmills alone as the game has progressed.

06-06-2006, 08:16 PM	#1621
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Lathum, what would it take to get you to vote for Tyrith or Schmidty? __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

06-06-2006, 08:16 PM	#1622
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Sack, I've guarded him twice. I strongly believe he is good, particularly as I was told I drove off an attack on him last night. I haven't seen a game yet that allowed a mechanic to fake out the bodyguard. So Cronin is a 99% for me - for all intents and purposes he is absolute trust for me and I probably should have written it that way.

06-06-2006, 08:19 PM	#1624
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Unvote Lathum

06-06-2006, 08:20 PM	#1625
Schmidty Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Early, TX	Do you guys think I would be this stupid if I were not a wolf? Oh yeah, you probably would. __________________ Just beat the devil out of it!!! - Bob Ross

06-06-2006, 08:21 PM	#1627
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Cronin, I'm interested in seeing what you do with your Lathum vote here. AlanT, do you know if you have your tie-breaker ability tonight since we are back to playing by normal rules?

06-06-2006, 08:22 PM	#1628
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	OK, I am not really sold on schmidty being a baddie here, there is something about the title of his role that made me think. Right now I am leaning towards voting for schmidty unless he reveals more than just his title. I am also not sold on the saldana/barkeep/cw thing.

06-06-2006, 08:24 PM	#1630
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	My vote stays on Lathum, but don't worry about that. I'll explain after the deadline. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

06-06-2006, 08:24 PM	#1631
Schmidty Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Early, TX	By the way, my belated answer to Alan's question: I still don't have a trust list. Everyone's been out to get me since day 2. The only person I half-believe is hoops, and even that is marred with second-guessing myself. I don't want to lie: I AM NOT GOING TO MAKE UP SOME FAKE "TRUST LIST" O SAVE MY ASS. IT"S STUPID. Yes, I'm tipsy. It's been a long day. __________________ Just beat the devil out of it!!! - Bob Ross

06-06-2006, 08:24 PM	#1632
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Lathum, working through the Saldana/BK/CW deal - do you call BS on the whole thing or are you singling out a specific player?

06-06-2006, 08:25 PM	#1634
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	VOTE SCHMIDTY subject to change if details of his role match up with my theory.

06-06-2006, 08:25 PM	#1635
Schmidty Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Early, TX	That should be: "I don't want to lie: I AM NOT GOING TO MAKE UP SOME FAKE "TRUST LIST" TO SAVE MY ASS. IT'S STUPID." My bad. __________________ Just beat the devil out of it!!! - Bob Ross

06-06-2006, 08:29 PM	#1638
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Coffee interests me, as a potential wizard. Right now we (probably) have 1 henchman and 1 wizard left. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

06-06-2006, 08:33 PM	#1639
saldana Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bethlehem, Pa	coffee interests me as well, and will probably get my vote tomorrow unless something changes....he has been totally unable to pick up on what barkeep and i found rather easy to see in each others posts, and he hasnt posted anything that hasnt been a basic rephrase of something i have already said.

06-06-2006, 08:38 PM	#1642
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Someone have a vote count?

06-06-2006, 08:38 PM	#1643
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	dola I mean in terms of our voting logic, either today or tomorrow. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

06-06-2006, 08:42 PM	#1645
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	If we don't feel like we are in end game mode, then I would suggest weighing the risk/reward strategies with AlanT and Tyrith against Schmidty. Neither of those guys is the alpha wolf, unless they have been incredibly cagey about it up to this point. If Schmidty is to be believed, the opposition will have to get through both the alpha and him before they can take out this role. And they are probably going to want to get Cronin at some point as well. I don't think they number more than three at this point in the game, given that we got one last night so I don't think we are in an end-game scenario here. Just something to mull over - if people are pretty damn confident on Schmidty being a human and that his reveal is BS then please disregard this. It is only intended as advice for someone flipping a coin between equal candidates as I am at the moment.

06-06-2006, 08:43 PM	#1646
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	UNVOTE SCHMIDTY he gave me what I needed.

06-06-2006, 08:43 PM	#1647
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	I have to go. Running way late for an appointment. With my uncertainty on Schmidty, I'm going to leave my vote as is. Good luck, guys. Get us a human.