Werewolf XXXIV: Tombstone (GAME OVER - Night 13)

[Fouts]

I can't believe some of you stayed on Gramm after his reveal. Hoops even provided a vote count and left his vote on him. JAIL HOOPS NOW!!!

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

CR, fair enough. I agree with a lot of what you say here.

OK, there are two people in the game who I do not have associated with a role:
#16 Racer
#20 Glengoyne

Have either of these guys shown something that I missed?

No Hoops, at least none that i can see. ido not have an idea of thier roles either.

[Fouts]

I don't trust NTN anymore either. I will be pushing to elect Swaggs tomorrow.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I am curious why anxiety isn't tired even though the rules clearly state if you do your night action 2 nights in a row you come up tired. That puts him at the top of my list for now.

No, actually they do not. Here is what they actually say:

Many, but not all of the roles have night period actions that are to be submitted to me before the night deadline of 9:00am EST. As everyone needs their rest, any player who spends consecutive nights out will be tagged in the morning as Tired. The only exceptions to the night action penalty is the player with the Sheriff job, or if any player in the game has a special role that allows for un-penalized night movement.

Bold part mine.

[hoopsguy]

Fouts, if we had freed Gramm right now you would be yelling at me about freeing a Cowboy.

I get that you don't trust me. It's mutual.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by saldana

the 9:01 vote has been bothering me since it happened...that ploy has been used a number of times during past games to try and make oneself look like they were trying to save someone...personally, i dont see how you dont see the little clock at the bottom of the board when you are typing your post and know that you are too late.

i was playing FOF and came back. i saw peeps talking about gramms reveal so i went and read that. i then posted but it was too late.

ohh and your one of the peeps i dont trust saladana. i might just meet you in the middle of town tomorow

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Gramm, it doesn't sound like Path can verify that you guarded him - his posts indicate that he had no knowledge of your presence.

Catching up -- I doublechecked with Alan -- as far as I know I was asleep all night except when the shots woke me up.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by saldana

ok, i am out until tomorrow night

my suspect list is, in no particular order

cronin
lonestargirl
hoops
bullet

aww dude. Alan can i only duel during the day? or can i do it now?

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Fouts, if we had freed Gramm right now you would be yelling at me about freeing a Cowboy.

I get that you don't trust me. It's mutual.

Not after that reveal I wouldn't have. Gramm screwed up by not giving a reason to save him, but it the guys who were around at the deadline let him die knowing who he was.

hoops, do you have a gun?

[saldana]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

i was playing FOF and came back. i saw peeps talking about gramms reveal so i went and read that. i then posted but it was too late.

ohh and your one of the peeps i dont trust saladana. i might just meet you in the middle of town tomorow

whatever...shooting the banker....that would be a real good use of your ability

[hoopsguy]

Yes, I have a gun.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by saldana

whatever...shooting the banker....that would be a real good use of your ability

as opposed to someone that there is actually evidence against, as opposed to nothing but your self admitted crappy instincts.

[saldana]

dola, yes, i just quoted myself.....i need to go to sleep..

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by saldana

as opposed to someone that there is actually evidence against, as opposed to nothing but your self admitted crappy instincts.

you do have a point

[hoopsguy]

Just curious - why are people suspicious of me but not the other people that are cleared by NTN? This has been confusing me for the last few hours.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Just curious - why are people suspicious of me but not the other people that are cleared by NTN? This has been confusing me for the last few hours.

I can't speak for any of the others, but I am pretty clear on you. I just think you over-thought yourself on the Gramm thing and made a bad decision, and you might exacerbate it further by concentrating in the wrong areas going forward. So I question the judgment, not the allegiance.

That said, I say that knowing I have made plenty of judgment calls in WW games that have turned out completely wrong.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Just curious - why are people suspicious of me but not the other people that are cleared by NTN? This has been confusing me for the last few hours.

1) The way you are playing the game.

2) I don't trust anyone that NTN has cleared.

3) You left your vote on Gramm. In previous games you would have been clamoring to get him freed.

4) You have a gun.

That enough?

[path12]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I think 1503 makes it rather clear Anxiety has been lying to us in some fashion. I'm guessing he hasn't really been playing dressup nearly as much as he's claimed.

I think 1503 is a hugely important post.

[Fouts]

Oh, and the biggest reason. You were at the scene of a crime without a good reason.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I personally think this is a bad play. What if the bad guys have a duke role and duke BK? Why limit our options by only tossing in one suspect? Why remove BK's ability to use his role? Why deny a bodyguard the opporuntity to kill a abd guy by protecting an obvious target?

Anxiety's post that Gramm was refering to.

[hoopsguy]

Fouts - do you think NTN is a Cowboy? Why do you expect he is issuing trust lists based on his visits? Help me understand your perceptions of his play.

On Gramm - I thought there was a strong chance he was bluffing, based on the fact that I had seen both Bullet and Chubby outside last night. I believe I know both of their roles and both of them would potentially lend themselves towards bodyguard.

Fouts - do you have a gun?

[Chief Rum]

[quote=hoopsguy;1272810]On Gramm - I thought there was a strong chance he was bluffing, based on the fact that I had seen both Bullet and Chubby outside last night. I believe I know both of their roles and both of them would potentially lend themselves towards bodyguard.[quote]

So if, as it appears, Gramm was indeed the bodyguard, what do you now make of those two? Or do you think there are multiple bodygaurds?

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Fouts - do you think NTN is a Cowboy? Why do you expect he is issuing trust lists based on his visits? Help me understand your perceptions of his play.

On Gramm - I thought there was a strong chance he was bluffing, based on the fact that I had seen both Bullet and Chubby outside last night. I believe I know both of their roles and both of them would potentially lend themselves towards bodyguard.

Fouts - do you have a gun?

No idea on NTN. I do know that he locked up the bodyguard. He is clearing people by visiting them? Who has cleared NTN? The only person I trust is Swaggs.

School teachers don't have guns. I am completely harmless, and have no reason to be out at night. If you see me out after dark, shoot me.

[hoopsguy]

Also on Gram, one of us was in the room talking to Gramm trying to get information and trying to make a good decision. You showed up ten minutes after results go up and once again mount an attack.

[hoopsguy]

Fouts, do you believe that I was the shooter last night?

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Fouts, do you believe that I was the shooter last night?

No idea. I was sleeping.

Do you think asking direct questions will clear you of suspicion?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

On Gramm - I thought there was a strong chance he was bluffing, based on the fact that I had seen both Bullet and Chubby outside last night. I believe I know both of their roles and both of them would potentially lend themselves towards bodyguard.

So if, as it appears, Gramm was indeed the bodyguard, what do you now make of those two? Or do you think there are multiple bodygaurds?

Whoops, did it again. I have re-posted to make the quote clearer.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Also on Gram, one of us was in the room talking to Gramm trying to get information and trying to make a good decision. You showed up ten minutes after results go up and once again mount an attack.

Yeah, I got a database error from the site, then left the computer. When I got back it was too late.

[Alan T]

Due to questions from various people the past few days, I have added the following section to the rules in post #1. Please note this is not a change in game play but simply a clarification on issues that have been brought up a few times already for public knowledge.

Player's items and posessions:

The only item in this game of special note in any PMs is guns. There will be other items mentioned during the play of the game that people will be said to have. In cases where those items are mentioned, continuity will be kept through all people who may know about or have seen such items. In addition, all players are assumed to have personal spending money for drinks/dinner as well as a small knife. The ability to use spending money or your knifes in ways other than dictated by the story will be stated in any role that could possibly have such abilities.

When a player dies, their posessions go to relatives or the town and for game purposes disappear completely unless specifically deemed special due to some role or circumstance.

Edit: Modified sentence for spelling error. Should read: Please not this is not a change

[hoopsguy]

Fouts, I'm asking direct questions to try and understand your laser-like focus on me. Chubby did this a couple of games ago and I didn't believe he was my enemy, just wrong. I'm not cutting you quite as much slack because we have played a bunch of games together. And I think you are going with the "best defense is a good offense" approach here.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I would imagine people will object mightily to this, and it won't matter, but I will put it out anyway. I would ask for the townsfolk to ask ntn to release me. I can't do any good from in here. If you're going to kill me, then lynch me and be done with it. If not, release me and allow me to use my skills to help track down the cowboys.

At least now that is pretty much out in the open as to what I am and what I do, I can openly make my approaches and try to find the bad guys or information that we could use to help build larger CoT.

Forgot to reply to this. I would object about your being freed. If you can do what you say you can do, then you should be afraid of being attacked by cowboys. You, obviously, fear no cowboy.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Fouts, I'm asking direct questions to try and understand your laser-like focus on me. Chubby did this a couple of games ago and I didn't believe he was my enemy, just wrong. I'm not cutting you quite as much slack because we have played a bunch of games together. And I think you are going with the "best defense is a good offense" approach here.

Well it appears nobody is going with me on you. I have no direct evidence of your being bad. You are playing a strange game. Hinting at have some ability that will disappear when the cowboys get you at night, or at the end of a noose (like Gramm).

As far as "best defense is a good offense", I have nothing to defend against. Show me something that makes me look guilty. I have done nothing this game but grill people who act suspicious. If that is a sign of a bad guy, then lock me up.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

well, Shoot! Sorry Folks. I am up for any suggestions on who to Jail tonight. My plan now is as it was to release one and put one in.

I'm not all caught up but I'm ok with you jailing anybody, pretty much. You're the only guy I have real trust in, and by extension, your COT.

[Fouts]

C'mon people, give some opinions.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'm not all caught up but I'm ok with you jailing anybody, pretty much. You're the only guy I have real trust in, and by extension, your COT.

Not even swaggs?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Forgot to reply to this. I would object about your being freed. If you can do what you say you can do, then you should be afraid of being attacked by cowboys. You, obviously, fear no cowboy.

I knew you would. You usually leap to the worst possible conclusion about me for some reason.

I fear the cowboys and their choice of many targets than I do being one of the one or two options for a lynch.

I have said a number of times that my skills are limited and only work on certain people. Now, if the cowboys are all particularly libidinous, then, yes, I suppose I will be a goner. But I doubt they are.

Even given they would know about my skill, they would still likely target Swaggs, ntn (when he wasn't a sheriff), Anxiety, Chubby and Spleen before me, and hoops, st. cronin, Barkeep and Lathum would probably be targeted as well for either their outspoken style or veteran status before they got to me.

Now, if I discover something and announce it to the village, I would probably jump up on their target list, but I don't think I would be anywhere near an automatic.

So, yes, I fear the lynch much more than I do the cowboys right now, as you would imagine.

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Fouts, I'm asking direct questions to try and understand your laser-like focus on me. Chubby did this a couple of games ago and I didn't believe he was my enemy, just wrong. I'm not cutting you quite as much slack because we have played a bunch of games together. And I think you are going with the "best defense is a good offense" approach here.

Hoops, I have no idea about Fouts like I have no idea about virtually anyone in this game. But I want to just point out that if I assume that like myself, Fouts has what amounts to a plain vanilla role, the only thing we can really do is try and mount a good offense against just about everyone in turn.

Could he be a cowboy? Sure. So could I, and so could you. But for those of us without roles, aggressive questioning is the only weapon we have -- whether it ends up putting us in a noose or at the wrong end of a gun sooner or later.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Fouts

As far as "best defense is a good offense", I have nothing to defend against. Show me something that makes me look guilty. I have done nothing this game but grill people who act suspicious. If that is a sign of a bad guy, then lock me up.

How about throwing around a whole bunch of weighty accusations with little proof? Somehow showing up just in time to miss saving Gramm (very convenient)? Disappearing/saying little for days now, despite being a veteran, but now you're all over the place?

It seems to me there is as much to suspect you here as you have against hoops.

[path12]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'm not all caught up but I'm ok with you jailing anybody, pretty much. You're the only guy I have real trust in, and by extension, your COT.

Suck-up.

[hoopsguy]

Chief, at this point it would be very convenient for us to have multiple bodyguards. I don't think Bullet is or else he would not have had much reason to come in at 8:01 with an unvote for Gramm.

Chubby, I'm not as sure but I'm going to go back and look at his account of last night. Obviously if he was a bodyguard he wasn't guarding GE last night, but what if he was guarding someone in the same area? There are aspects of his information that do not quite gel with conventional bodyguard.

I'm not 100% sure it is a good idea discussing stuff like this out in the open, but it has been pointed out that I'm not doing enough analysis this game. I have been, but I've been avoiding posting roles and my vibe on what they do so as not to alert the Cowboys. And it has not been fun for me playing a relatively quiet game, even though I've been near the top of posts the whole way.

Not meant as a beef about the game concept, which I think is terrific. Just an observation about the approach I've taken - it hasn't been all that much fun or terribly effective, based on today.

[Barkeep49]

Fouts -- I think I've been pretty clear that I have faith in NTN. While NTN has faith in hoops then I have faith in hoops and so I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by path12

Hoops, I have no idea about Fouts like I have no idea about virtually anyone in this game. But I want to just point out that if I assume that like myself, Fouts has what amounts to a plain vanilla role, the only thing we can really do is try and mount a good offense against just about everyone in turn.

Could he be a cowboy? Sure. So could I, and so could you. But for those of us without roles, aggressive questioning is the only weapon we have -- whether it ends up putting us in a noose or at the wrong end of a gun sooner or later.

Bingo. I think hoops knows this already though. He is hoping I slip up and cause some suspicion for myself.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I fear the cowboys and their choice of many targets than I do being one of the one or two options for a lynch.

Reading back, this didn't make sense. Here is how it should have read.

I fear the cowboys and their choice of many targets less than I do being one of the one or two options for a lynch.

I really need to proofread myself more in WW threads.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Fouts -- I think I've been pretty clear that I have faith in NTN. While NTN has faith in hoops then I have faith in hoops and so I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

Fair enough. I'll head back to the school house and see how things play out.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Fouts

No idea on NTN. I do know that he locked up the bodyguard. He is clearing people by visiting them? Who has cleared NTN? The only person I trust is Swaggs.

School teachers don't have guns. I am completely harmless, and have no reason to be out at night. If you see me out after dark, shoot me.

Yes I locked up the bodyguard. I went out on a limb following my gut and made a command decision. It was the wrong one. Of the 5 folks who gave Jailing Suggestions yesterday Chief Rum had 3 so he was locked up.

Now on to my clearing and being cleared. Every person that I have eithe seen or attempted to see in the Furtherence of my role has cleared me. I had thought of each of the people I talked to with a good deal of trust before I went to see them. That will continue to be my plan.

[hoopsguy]

Path, you know I understand the idea of pushing on a player in-game to see what you find. And I go through this more games than not, based on playing style, reputation, and whatever else you want to throw in there.

I don't have a problem with being questioned. I will respond to questions - no matter what side of the game I'm on, good or bad. I think it is safe to assume that I will NEVER play the quiet wolf role.

That said, you have played games where we have been wolves together. I would like to think that my persona is fairly consistent from game to game. If I'm playing out of character, there just might be a reason that I'm doing so that doesn't involve me looking to shoot people at night.

[Lathum]

so who does NTN jail tonight?

[ntndeacon]

Good Question Lathum. I don't know yet. it will only be one person Though. So Hopefully I get this one right.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Good Question Lathum. I don't know yet. it will only be one person Though. So Hopefully I get this one right.

one person because you are releasing someone?

[hoopsguy]

Path, I'm going to crash in a few. If you want to continue our conversation I'll stick for another 5-10 minutes. If not, hopefully tomorrow brings some positive results.