*World Cup Game Discussion Thread* (SPOILERS)

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

If this was basketball, they would be 8-1 favorites, not 8-1 underdogs. I would have loved a win, too, but we have a great chance to advance, something that I thought was near impossible heading into today.

I wouldn't call it a great chance. Ghana is pretty close to being the best team in the group, and I think Czech Rep will get at least a draw against Italy.

The heart they showed today is a great place to start though. Here's hoping things fall their way

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

One explination I've heard is that Arena probably wanted McBride for defensive set pieces, since McBride is very good at using his head, while Johnson is not distinguished in the same... and as we've seen, the Italians are very good at offensive set pieces.

(again, standard disclaimer, soccer neophyte)

What about subbing for someone like Reyna? He looked like he had nothing left at that point, surely even a second tier MF would have given you more than him in the last ten minutes, right?

[cartman]

I wonder what it is about Italy and playing WC games with a controversial South American referee. Last time around, in 2002, it was Byron Moreno from Ecuador making some questionable calls in the game between Italy and South Korea.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

What about subbing for someone like Reyna? He looked like he had nothing left at that point, surely even a second tier MF would have given you more than him in the last ten minutes, right?

Eh... Reyna is your captain and in the bunker, you want someone with some leadership... and you'd be replacing a MF with a forward when you are looking to bunker down because your squad is tired as all Hell.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Daed - I do not owe Mathis shit. I am personally sick of his contast potshots at the US. I just can not stand people who willd judge a team based on where they live. He will deny it, but it has been documented time and time again on this board. Personally, I can not stand the guy.

Your opinion is disappointing, given what my opinion of you used to be.

In contrast, I have not seen Matthijs taken any potshots on the US team. You dislike his opinions because he does not gush over the US team and its greatness. However, he is critical of just about any and every team as, like me, he is simply a fan of football, regardless of nationalities. In talking to him, he's much harsher on the Dutch team than he is on the US national team.

[ChiMatt]

If this was basketball, they would be 8-1 favorites, not 8-1 underdogs. I would have loved a win, too, but we have a great chance to advance, something that I thought was near impossible heading into today.

I don't get that though. 8-1 is pretty serious underdogs. Before the opening match all of ESPN/ABC's "experts" predicted the US would advance out of pool play. Now we have to feel good about going 0-1-1 barely scoring one goal?

I really like this team and they did show great heart today but sometimes that's just not enough. If they want to be considered a real team the results are just not there.

[sovereignstar]

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Your opinion is disappointing, given what my opinion of you used to be.

In contrast, I have not seen Matthijs taken any potshots on the US team. You dislike his opinions because he does not gush over the US team and its greatness. However, he is critical of just about any and every team as, like me, he is simply a fan of football, regardless of nationalities. In talking to him, he's much harsher on the Dutch team than he is on the US national team.

Whatever. Everyone is entilted to their own opinion.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

The ref took the game out of the Americans hands. They dominated Italy when it was 11v11.

They didn't even dominate Italy when it was 11v10.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ChiMatt

I really like this team and they did show great heart today but sometimes that's just not enough. If they want to be considered a real team the results are just not there.

i agree

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by Critch

They didn't even dominate Italy when it was 11v10.

Seriously, what game were you watching?

The US had all of the chances and the vast majority of possesion, both when it was 11v11 and 11v10.

Sheesh.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Seriously, what game were you watching?

The US had all of the chances and the mvast majority of possesion.

Sheesh.

I was watching the game through unbiased eyes.

[tanglewood]

Excellent game to watch.

Both first half reds were deserved IMHO. De Rossi, blatant elbow. Masteroni was late, two footed and didn't get the ball, in any situation that's a red card. Pope can consider himself a bit unlucky as the foul he got the second yellow for probably wasn't worthy of a booking, but he made plenty of fouls in the first half and was walking on thin ice for a long time so I wasn't suprised he got sent off. The disallowed goal was the correct decision, McBride was clearly interferring with play by standing right infront of Buffon. To be honest, the biggest thing hat struck me with the officiating was how many times Italy were called offside when they were either level, or in some cases clearly on by a distance. I counted 5 breakaways where Toni/Iaquinta/Gillardino were through one-on-one that were incorrectly called back by the linesman.

Player wise, Donovan and Reyna played very well for the US. Oneywu was good nearer the end after a nervous start. The US defending on the goal was simply atrocious, Pope just didn't track Gillardino so god knows what he thought he was supposed to be doing there. That's two goals from crosses he was clearly at fault with, so I'd have dropped him for the next match even if he wasn't suspended. Italy we poor going forward, they created a few chances but really should have put the game away in the second half. Del Piero and Pirlo were getting so much space but just didn't use the ball well enough.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Seriously, what game were you watching?

The US had all of the chances and the vast majority of possesion, both when it was 11v11 and 11v10.

Sheesh.

And if we're being honest, didn't come that close to scoring. Putting bad refereeing decisions aside, the US is one laughable own goal away from being 0-2 with 0 goals scored.

I think GE, it's time to admit this US side isn't as good as it was made out to be. Lots of players with heart but sub World Class talent, and a couple of talented players with very little heart.

There - I'm officially a Eurosnob

[ChiMatt]

Originally Posted by Critch

They didn't even dominate Italy when it was 11v10.

I agree with this. The only two stretches of the game that Italy controlled were when they went down 11-10 for 10 minutes or so and then the final 15 minutes. The US controlled the rest of the game.

The US had all the momentum when they had the man advantage but did not do anything with it and gave it away. (Or in my opinion had it taken away from them.)

[MrBug708]

GE - You need to lighten up. When it comes to sports, you take things too personally. Sure MIJB isn't too thrilled about US Soccer, but that's his perogative. The same thing happened with Memphis during March Madness. The last thing you want to do is piss off some poor tree somewhere because of a loss of your favorite team(s).

Im not defending MIJB as I think it's expected. He's not a US fan and while I dont think he is unbias, I dont think he is biased either. And Im certainly not defending Daed. as he doesn't like me for whatever reason.

Just saying is all

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by ChiMatt

I don't get that though. 8-1 is pretty serious underdogs. Before the opening match all of ESPN/ABC's "experts" predicted the US would advance out of pool play. Now we have to feel good about going 0-1-1 barely scoring one goal?

I really like this team and they did show great heart today but sometimes that's just not enough. If they want to be considered a real team the results are just not there.

I think the thing is that it is only the US media believed that the team would advance. The rest of the world thought that the US could advance, but were not favourites to do so.

This is one of two groups which were extremely tough (the other being the Argies/Dutch/Ivory Coast/S&M, although the latter have disappointed) - any two of the four could have qualified, but certainly most people outside the US would say more often than not the US would not advance.

And as much as diving, controversial calls, etc may well put potential new US fans off, unrealistic media portrayal will have a far more damaging impact, as these new fans will tune in expecting the US to win, and if they don't will think they have failed to perform.

if the US 'experts' have given an inaccurate projection, today might be seen as a poor result: however, especially given the 2 red cards, it should be seen very much as a point gained, not two points lost.

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by ChiMatt

I don't get that though. 8-1 is pretty serious underdogs. Before the opening match all of ESPN/ABC's "experts" predicted the US would advance out of pool play. Now we have to feel good about going 0-1-1 barely scoring one goal?

I really like this team and they did show great heart today but sometimes that's just not enough. If they want to be considered a real team the results are just not there.

Well, betting lines aren't meant predict the victor, they are meant to put equal money on both sides, and I'm sure a lot of bettors just wanted to go with Italy on reputation alone compared to the US.

But anyway, tieing one of the best teams in the world when down a man for an entire half, I'm going to be happy with that. Obviously the Czech game was crap, and you hope that that was an aberration. When I say that I feel good, I mean that I feel good as compared to when today started. You have to admit that we are in a much better position to advance now than we were last night.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

And if we're being honest, didn't come that close to scoring. Putting bad refereeing decisions aside, the US is one laughable own goal away from being 0-2 with 0 goals scored.

I think GE, it's time to admit this US side isn't as good as it was made out to be. Lots of players with heart but sub World Class talent, and a couple of talented players with very little heart.

There - I'm officially a Eurosnob

shocking...i think i agree. and really WE havn't scored. The scoresheet shows one for us, but no US player has put one in the back of the net, and IMO that is what matters. We were gifted a draw, and actually considering all that happened in that game were quite fortunate to escape the game with the draw intact.

yeah, my irrational belief that this team was going to go places this WC is dead.

[Dunleavy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

One explination I've heard is that Arena probably wanted McBride for defensive set pieces, since McBride is very good at using his head, while Johnson is not distinguished in the same... and as we've seen, the Italians are very good at offensive set pieces.

dont buy it, Johnson would give you so much more. even if Bruce wanted McBride in, that still doesn't explain why he didn't make a sub, a lot of tired players out there. no excuse, i remain incredulous over this, Bruce wears the Dunce Cap on this one.

Indeed. This could very well be "The Match" of the 2006 World Cup that people remember 10-20 years later and is shown on the highlight shows. Instant Classic meaning most memorable in this context, not best played.

only memorable if we make it out of group, otherwise will be overshadowed by the opening 0-3 "step back" loss

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

GE - You need to lighten up. When it comes to sports, you take things too personally. Sure MIJB isn't too thrilled about US Soccer, but that's his perogative. The same thing happened with Memphis during March Madness. The last thing you want to do is piss off some poor tree somewhere because of a loss of your favorite team(s).

Im not defending MIJB as I think it's expected. He's not a US fan and while I dont think he is unbias, I dont think he is biased either. And Im certainly not defending Daed. as he doesn't like me for whatever reason.

Just saying is all

Fan of the USA? No, I got my own country.
Rooting for them to beat other teams? Hell yes, for the fourth consecutive World Cup.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

only memorable if we make it out of group, otherwise will be overshadowed by the opening 0-3 "step back" loss

I think he meant by the whole world, not just from a US perspective.

From a neutral point of view, the game had everything, red cards, disallowed goal, own goal, controversy, tremendous effort - definitely a match to remember

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Lots of players with heart but sub World Class talent, and a couple of talented players with very little heart.

I think that's true for the most part, but I think McBride and Reyna have talent and heart. Beasley, OTOH... talent undoubtably, but lacks heart.

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

only memorable if we make it out of group, otherwise will be overshadowed by the opening 0-3 "step back" loss

I wasn't aware that the US fans were the only ones who'd look back and remember the 2006 World Cup.

[Dunleavy]

Originally Posted by ChiMatt

I don't get that though. 8-1 is pretty serious underdogs.

8-1 is for a win, i think it was 3-1 for draw. ends up being around 40-45% that they dont lose.

note: just betting lines

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

dont buy it, Johnson would give you so much more. even if Bruce wanted McBride in, that still doesn't explain why he didn't make a sub, a lot of tired players out there. no excuse, i remain incredulous over this, Bruce wears the Dunce Cap on this one.

I agree, when there's space and tiring players, a striker with pace could have found gaps. Maybe they were thinking McBride had the strength to be an outlet and hold up the ball, but he didn't seem to do that either.

I'd like to see Johnson play in the last game, would be worth taking a chance. McBride has been poor in the EPL recently (1 goal this year), so maybe the long years and the age are catching up with him.

[ISiddiqui]

In addition to the 'sub McBride' camp... what happens if a player gets injured? 10 v 8 would have easily led to a goal. I'm sure Arena was taking that into account.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

He's not a US fan and while I dont think he is unbias, I dont think he is biased either.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think that's true for the most part, but I think McBride and Reyna have talent and heart. Beasley, OTOH... talent undoubtably, but lacks heart.

Reyna definitely - I think he would make any national squad. Really impressed with him the past season at Man City, and in the WC so far. McBride - god Arena needs to give him somebody to play up front with. Johnson's game could complement his really nicely and give McBride the space he needs, but at the moment he's just a sitting duck. Lot's of huff and puff but nothing to show for it.

The other talented one who doesn't have much heart IMO is Donovan. He has good moments but for every good moment there are two lazy WTF moments. He just doesn't seem to want it enough and I think his time in Germany and his attitude towards not wanting to play in a league where he can't dominate backs that up.

[Dunleavy]

I wasn't aware that the US fans were the only ones who'd look back and remember the 2006 World Cup.

i dont see this as being the best/remerable game of the entire tournament (wait and see some of the knockout games). some neutrals will remember the 1-1, some the 0-3

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

It makes sense in my head..

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

i dont see this as being the best/remerable game of the entire tournament (wait and see some of the knockout games). some neutrals will remember the 1-1, some the 0-3

I dont think this was even the best match today. Ghana/Czech gets that award in my mind.

SI

[RendeR]

Holy shit people....5 hours and you add 11 freaking PAGES!

Good job by the US today, showed heart, showed promise. Too bad that ref destroyed what could have been a truly amazing match.

Lets hope we thrash Ghana and teh Czech's continue to disintigrate.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

i dont see this as being the best/remerable game of the entire tournament (wait and see some of the knockout games). some neutrals will remember the 1-1, some the 0-3

Look at everything that happened in this game. As someone said earlier, the Swedish commentators were saying (paraphrasing): what's next, a helicopter falls on the pitch?

This was one of those games with everything you could possibly think of. People remember those type of games. Perhaps we'll have a back and forth QF or SF games, but this game will be remembered for a while.

[Dunleavy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

In addition to the 'sub McBride' camp... what happens if a player gets injured? 10 v 8 would have easily led to a goal. I'm sure Arena was taking that into account.

i suppose, granted the Italians had the man advantage but they made their last sub on the 61st. it's a chance you have to take, by the 80th or 85th play the ace in the whole

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

GE - You need to lighten up. When it comes to sports, you take things too personally. Sure MIJB isn't too thrilled about US Soccer, but that's his perogative. The same thing happened with Memphis during March Madness. The last thing you want to do is piss off some poor tree somewhere because of a loss of your favorite team(s).

Im not defending MIJB as I think it's expected. He's not a US fan and while I dont think he is unbias, I dont think he is biased either. And Im certainly not defending Daed. as he doesn't like me for whatever reason.

Just saying is all

Hmm, I find myself agreeing with a Bruin, what has the world come to? I also agree with Daedalus.

[Easy Mac]

But who was going to outlet it to the ace in the whole? Beasley didn't care. Reyna couldn't make a 5 yard pass. Donovan was dead. An outlet from the back and Johnson's best chance is if someone misses a header. He won't outjump them, so long kicks from Keller are pointless to push the ball forward. He would have been stranded, and he's a less surefooted defender.

[Dunleavy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Look at everything that happened in this game. As someone said earlier, the Swedish commentators were saying (paraphrasing): what's next, a helicopter falls on the pitch?

This was one of those games with everything you could possibly think of. People remember those type of games. Perhaps we'll have a back and forth QF or SF games, but this game will be remembered for a while.

i'm not trying to minimize the game, so forgive me for that. the game as a stand alone will be remember, but what happens thursday will make even greater, or something like this...US fan "remeber when we drew against Italy with only 9 men"...neutral "wasn't that the only point you got that tournament"

[ISiddiqui]

Actually, I know it would have pissed Beasley off more, but taking Beasley off wouldn't have been so bad after the 80th .

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

i'm not trying to minimize the game, so forgive me for that. the game as a stand alone will be remember, but what happens thursday will make even greater, or something like this...US fan "remeber when we drew against Italy with only 9 men"...neutral "wasn't that the only point you got that tournament"

Why are you just looking at this from the perspective of a US fan? I'm talking about what the world remembers as exciting and fun games.

[Karim]

I really wish this team had shown up against the Czech Republic.

[Critch]

Interesting stat from today is that the US didn't have a single shot on target over the 90 mins.

My cat has fallen asleep on the tv remote so I have to read stuff like this instead of turn over the tv and move on.

[Cringer]

I loved this game. I gave the U.S. no chance at even a draw against Italy after the game on Monday versus the Czechs.

This team played a million times better (though I am far from the best judge of that). I will remember this game for a long time personally, and though it is not a win I am proud of the U.S. team for the fight they showed.

I understand the 'own goal' by Italy was our only score, but I don't look at this 'own goal' as a complete fluke either. The U.S. was puttinga lot of pressure on the Italians, and I kind of see it as a forced error due to tis pressure. Maybe it's not the correct way to look at it, but I kind of see it that way. Hey, I'm a homer ok?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Cringer

I loved this game. I gave the U.S. no chance at even a draw against Italy after the game on Monday versus the Czechs.

This team played a million times better (though I am far from the best judge of that). I will remember this game for a long time personally, and though it is not a win I am proud of the U.S. team for the fight they showed.

I understand the 'own goal' by Italy was our only score, but I don't look at this 'own goal' as a complete fluke either. The U.S. was puttinga lot of pressure on the Italians, and I kind of see it as a forced error due to tis pressure. Maybe it's not the correct way to look at it, but I kind of see it that way. Hey, I'm a homer ok?

pride and 50 cents will buy you a candybar.

results are all that matters, and close only matters in horseshoes and hand-grenades.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

and getting a result via an own-goal is like kissing your sister

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

dola

and getting a result via an own-goal is like kissing your sister

Did you see the US celebration after the own-goal? non-existent

[Critch]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Did you see the US celebration after the own-goal? non-existent

I noticed that. I was watching with foreign langauge commentary so I wasn't sure if it was a goal the response was so muted and the Italians seemed to be laughing.

Better get ready to cheer on Australia when they play Brazil tomorrow. 2nd place in the US group plays first in that group, so Brazil losing would be good for the US.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Who could imagine that with your comments eariler in the thread?

Ummm my comments that your consiracy theories and your being blind to the facts because of your ultra homerism paints me as an England fan? Fans of ANY country can see that you have no clue in hell what you are talking about.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

pride and 50 cents will buy you a candybar.

results are all that matters, and close only matters in horseshoes and hand-grenades.

Being 0-2 would be done, being 0-1-1 still gives the U.S. a chance.

And as I maybe didn't make clear enough, I am not exactly an expert here. My enjoyment of football/soccer is pretty new, so I am still picking up on a lot of the goods/bads/that kind of stuff. I watched some of the last few WCs, but never really got too much into it. My kid playing soccer in the fall for the first time, alongwith a couple Houston games this year have reall gotten me into it though, for good. Paying this much attention to an international competition is pretty new to me.

Trust me, I was disappointed in not getting a win. With the first 10 minutes of the game gone I really started to believe the U.S. could win. Big picture though, I am happy there is a chance to move on still, even if it has to be against Brazil. I understand guys with more knowledge can sit and pick on this and that, give me a couple more WCs and maybe I will be right along with them.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by Critch

I was watching the game through unbiased eyes.

In Golden Eagle's eyes the only unbiased fan is a USA fan.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

In Golden Eagle's eyes the only unbiased fan is a USA fan.

And he suspects 90% of them are undercover euro-snobs too.