Console Discussion/E3/Tokyo Game Show Thread

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Not sure where you're getting your information. The human eye can discern the difference between the two on a 32" up to 6 feet away. If you go up to a 50" TV, the distance is 10 feet. I know I have little trouble telling the difference on my 55" TV in my bedroom when playing games. With that said, this isn't the real problem here. This discussion continues to come up because the real problem is that the Xbox One is underpowered and overpriced. The rest of the conversation is just nitpicking to draw attention away from the real problem.

Regardless, here's the chart if anyone feels like discussing this side topic further.

I refuse to argue with you. That popular chart is biased and was pushed by a YTV manufacturer to sell bigger TVs. There was a Cal Berkely study done in 09...exhaustive.

Where am I getting my info? Reminder I used to won a home tech company. We sold and installed over 1,100 Theater Rooms.

I was Sony's number one private retailer in NA for TV sets for 3 years running.

If we want to have a e-dick measuring contest I will win on this subject (maybe on no other on the planet, but I guarantee you on the subject of picture quality, home theater design, set up etc..I take/took a lot of pride and the results spoke for themselves.) But its irrelevant.

If you want to start tearing the science apart go ahead. Then find out how many LED monitors on the market actually deliver a tested 1080p (Ill give you a hint you can count them on 1 hand)

Sure you have eagle eyes.
Ive heard it 1,000 times.

Then you walk someone into a totally dark room show them a 1080p at factory setting and an optimized adjusted 480..half couldnt guess which was which. At 720...

You know what. Why the hell am I typing this.

You win.

PS4 IS THE GREATEST.
X1 is a shitty paper weight.

We all get it.

with that I will not return to this thread and the first person in my history of the internet goes on the ignore list

[DaddyTorgo]

Didn't CU Tiger have a home theater business? Thinking he knows what he's talking about...

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Not sure where you're getting your information. The human eye can discern the difference between the two on a 32" up to 6 feet away. If you go up to a 50" TV, the distance is 10 feet. I know I have little trouble telling the difference on my 55" TV in my bedroom when playing games. With that said, this isn't the real problem here. This discussion continues to come up because the real problem is that the Xbox One is underpowered and overpriced. The rest of the conversation is just nitpicking to draw attention away from the real problem.

Regardless, here's the chart if anyone feels like discussing this side topic further.

As usual, your trollish self comes out, bravo sir, bravo.

You have no idea what you're talking about because all you can ever do is cut and paste after you google a subject.

CU, stay in the thread and ignore this guy.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I refuse to argue with you. That popular chart is biased and was pushed by a YTV manufacturer to sell bigger TVs. There was a Cal Berkely study done in 09...exhaustive.

Where am I getting my info? Reminder I used to won a home tech company. We sold and installed over 1,100 Theater Rooms.

I was Sony's number one private retailer in NA for TV sets for 3 years running.

If we want to have a e-dick measuring contest I will win on this subject (maybe on no other on the planet, but I guarantee you on the subject of picture quality, home theater design, set up etc..I take/took a lot of pride and the results spoke for themselves.) But its irrelevant.

If you want to start tearing the science apart go ahead. Then find out how many LED monitors on the market actually deliver a tested 1080p (Ill give you a hint you can count them on 1 hand)

Sure you have eagle eyes.
Ive heard it 1,000 times.

Then you walk someone into a totally dark room show them a 1080p at factory setting and an optimized adjusted 480..half couldnt guess which was which. At 720...

You know what. Why the hell am I typing this.

You win.

PS4 IS THE GREATEST.
X1 is a shitty paper weight.

We all get it.

with that I will not return to this thread and the first person in my history of the internet goes on the ignore list

You could have saved all this post and just posted the source of the bias information. I'm going to assume it's out there somewhere.

While this post is wonderfully informative, as I noted, this is still a console discussion thread and the crux of the discussion still remains. If the Xbox One had the horsepower to produce game parity in resolution and fps, we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's not even a controversial statement.

[Izulde]

To rescue this thread, if I can find it, is the $449.98 for PS4 plus NBA 2K14 in-store only special at Gamestop they have running right now a good deal? Not sure if it's any console or if it's limited to a certain size.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

On a 50" screen the human eye can not discern the difference between 720 and 1080p at a distance greater than 4' an a 70" the distance is closer to 7'.

7' away from a 70" screen is going to strain your eyes over a long time I'd think.

This data is accurate for static or dynamic equal images...where there *could* be a difference is how the GPU processes and whether details are left out of blurred.

Cool data to note, CU. I suppose it depends on how sensitive somone is to these things. I definitely see a noticable difference.

Then again im always 2 feet in front of my 32 inch. Lol.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Izulde

To rescue this thread, if I can find it, is the $449.98 for PS4 plus NBA 2K14 in-store only special at Gamestop they have running right now a good deal?

You're getting about $10 off the regular price ($399.99+$59.99).

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

While this post is wonderfully informative, as I noted, this is still a console discussion thread and the crux of the discussion still remains. If the Xbox One had the horsepower to produce game parity in resolution and fps, we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's not even a controversial statement.

We also wouldn't be having this discussion, but you constantly say the same thing over and over again, without adding anything to it. The Xbox One definitely has the horsepower to run games at 1080p/60fps, for you to try and assert otherwise is just a ignorant fanboy argument. Otherwise Forza 5 wouldn't be able to do just that.

A big part of the reason that the developers are struggling with it is due to difficulties using the faster eSRAM video memory cache on the Xbox One. An upcoming SDK update is supposed to make it easier to use.

Xbox One: 1080p “comfortably� with SDK update, says Rebellion - Developer Tech

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by cartman

We also wouldn't be having this discussion, but you constantly say the same thing over and over again, without adding anything to it. The Xbox One definitely has the horsepower to run games at 1080p/60fps, for you to try and assert otherwise is just a ignorant fanboy argument. Otherwise Forza 5 wouldn't be able to do just that.

A big part of the reason that the developers are struggling with it is due to difficulties using the faster eSRAM video memory cache on the Xbox One. An upcoming SDK update is supposed to make it easier to use.

Xbox One: 1080p “comfortably� with SDK update, says Rebellion - Developer Tech

Like the article mentions, it's actually the PS4's advantage in memory size that allows it to run 1080p. Hopefully the new SDK offsets the lesser/faster memory in the XBox One to give everyone the same experience across all platforms on multi-platform titles.

The Forza devs had to do optimizations to go to 1080p. As he does say that everyone is basically using 100% of the box, regardless of resolution.

Forza Dev: Everyone is Using 100% of The Xbox One's Power | The Escapist

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

You're getting about $10 off the regular price ($399.99+$59.99).

Thanks. Not a big savings then so I'll just keep waiting.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Like the article mentions, it's actually the PS4's advantage in memory size that allows it to run 1080p. Hopefully the new SDK offsets the lesser/faster memory in the XBox One to give everyone the same experience across all platforms on multi-platform titles.

The Forza devs had to do optimizations to go to 1080p. As he does say that everyone is basically using 100% of the box, regardless of resolution.

Forza Dev: Everyone is Using 100% of The Xbox One's Power | The Escapist

Yeah, it's a very good point. They did in fact bump Forza 5 all the way up to 1080p and I'm pretty sure it's 60 fps most of the time. However, as you mention, they made sacrifices to reach that point. The crowd surrounding the track is a perfect example. The before screen shot below is from the E3 demo. The after shot is the retail version of the game. They basically went from fully rendered crowds in the demo to flat characters that we've seen in games for at least 10 years. Nobody wants to see that in 1080p.

[cartman]

Thank you for once again adding absolutely nothing to the discussion, except increasing your post count. I guess you enjoy the sound of one hand clapping, as you seem to want to monopolize any discussion. Maybe Gran Turismo should focus less on what spectators look like and more on getting some actual AI for the drivers.

I have yet to hear from someone who, while racing in Forza, pauses the game and then comments on what the crowd looks like.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Does anyone know whether you can system link/lan two Xbox One's together?

I used to do it all of the time with Xbox 360's, but can't seem to find any relevant info for Xbones.

Thanks.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Does anyone know whether you can system link/lan two Xbox One's together?

I used to do it all of the time with Xbox 360's, but can't seem to find any relevant info for Xbones.

Thanks.

Nope. Both Sony and Microsoft dropped the 'system link' feature from the next gens.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by cartman

Nope. Both Sony and Microsoft dropped the 'system link' feature from the next gens.

That's what I feared.

Disappointing, but not too surprising I guess.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Thank you for once again adding absolutely nothing to the discussion, except increasing your post count. I guess you enjoy the sound of one hand clapping, as you seem to want to monopolize any discussion. Maybe Gran Turismo should focus less on what spectators look like and more on getting some actual AI for the drivers.

I have yet to hear from someone who, while racing in Forza, pauses the game and then comments on what the crowd looks like.

Listen, I understand you're a big fan of MS products and I can appreciate that. I'm obviously a big fan of PS products. All of that aside, there is a huge shift in the market occurring right before our eyes and it is significant. If current trends continue, we're going to have a worldwide market breakdown greater than the 60/40 in favor of Sony that I originally predicted. There's a lot of things that happen when you have a dominant player like that and most MS fans should be well-aware of the benefits from the last generation.

-Most development occurs on the dominant platform and is ported down to other platforms.
-Multiplayer gamers gravitate to the consoles with the bigger installed base to get more competition.
-Lower sales mean you have to create incentives quicker, reducing profit at the start of your life cycle when costs start to drop.
-Exclusives become more expensive for the lower installed base because the publisher expect lower sales than they would get on the dominant console, so they have to pay more for that exclusivity than the dominant console would.
-Developers gravitate to the larger installed base for obvious reasons.

Early sales are key to a console. Look at the last generation as an example. The PS3 did basically pull even of late, but the winner in the end was the 360 because their early launch and sales along with terrible PR for the PS3 put MS in the driver's seat for most of the generation. They unquestionably had all of the above benefits over the past 7-8 years. Sony is now in a position to reap those benefits.

Interestingly enough, today is the one year anniversary of the announcement of the PS4. It's amazing to look back one year ago and see the comments and general perception of all brands and consoles compared to where we are now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

MS announces new media remote.

Xbox Live's Major Nelson » The Xbox One Media Remote :

[cartman]

Got it. So when Microsoft jumped out to the big lead over Sony last generation, it was nothing to worry about, but now that Sony has the lead, it is a fundamental shift in the market. I guess Microsoft should just pack up shop now that they only have the 2nd fastest selling console of all time. Of all those points you mentioned, it didn't seem to make a lick of difference last gen. Both Sony and Microsoft got great exclusives, and no developers stopped making products for either.

And it is hilarious that you continually exclude the Wii, because if you do include it, your points fall apart rapidly.

And, we get that you are a fan of Sony products. But is it really necessary for you to have over 300 more posts than the next person in a thread of over 1500 posts?

[BillJasper]

I love my PS4, but when playing around with demos of both systems they are pretty much indistinguishable. If Microsoft can get to $399 (without cutting features), it'll be a race.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by cartman

And it is hilarious that you continually exclude the Wii, because if you do include it, your points fall apart rapidly.

First, second, third? If you're going to forget one, it's easy to forget one on the top. Even if it was only the 5th best selling console ever (4th in North America).

But you can always pretend it's a mistake or scope shrink it, claiming "best selling HD system" when the quality of it being HD is irrelevant to the conversation.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

First, second, third? If you're going to forget one, it's easy to forget one on the top. Even if it was only the 5th best selling console ever (4th in North America).

But you can always pretend it's a mistake or scope shrink it, claiming "best selling HD system" when the quality of it being HD is irrelevant to the conversation.

SI

Not at all. The Wii was a fine console, but Nintendo isn't a player this generation. They have made MS's problems look minor in comparison. No one even talks about Nintendo right now in regards to consoles.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Not at all. The Wii was a fine console, but Nintendo isn't a player this generation. They have made MS's problems look minor in comparison. No one even talks about Nintendo right now in regards to consoles.

But when the Wii U was released, they sold a ton of consoles initially. So I think it would be premature to crown a winner when we're not even six months into the race.

I say this as an owner of a PS4.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

No one I don't even talks about Nintendo right now in regards to consoles.

Fix'd

[sterlingice]

In the interest of completeness, I forgot another technique in my post above. You can always change the subject. For instance, when you're asked a question about the previous generation, you can talk about the current one. I think you get bonus points if you make sure to dish out a backhanded complement but I'm not really an expert.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

But when the Wii U was released, they sold a ton of consoles initially. So I think it would be premature to crown a winner when we're not even six months into the race.

I say this as an owner of a PS4.

So you're of the opinion that the early sales of the Wii U and the PS4 are comparable?

FWIW.....the PS4 will pass the Wii U in worldwide sales in the next month or so despite the head start.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I love my PS4, but when playing around with demos of both systems they are pretty much indistinguishable. If Microsoft can get to $399 (without cutting features), it'll be a race.

The boldfaced clarification was needed. There's no way they can cut it to $400 with the Kinect and lose $80/console.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The boldfaced clarification was needed. There's no way they can cut it to $400 with the Kinect and lose $80/console.

I don't know honestly. They will pick up some savings as manufacturing improves and Microsoft has really deep pockets.

Depends on whether or not Microsoft thinks they can make it up on the software side.

The worst thing Sony can do at this point is think they've won the race.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I don't know honestly. They will pick up some savings as manufacturing improves and Microsoft has really deep pockets.

Depends on whether or not Microsoft thinks they can make it up on the software side.

The worst thing Sony can do at this point is think they've won the race.

The problem is that I'm sure MS didn't budget going into catch-up mode anywhere near this quickly. Just because you have those deep pockets doesn't mean you want to dive into them. Cartman's earlier point regarding sales also brings up another quandry. They do have the second fastest launch in history. Do they ride the wave and be comfortable with that or do they make moves to try to reel in the PS4 because they know what problems face a console that gets behind early in the life cycle?

I don't think we've seen any indication that Sony thinks they've won the race. If anything, they're pressing their advantage harder as they head into the Japan release in two days. Sony management still has the sour taste in their mouth from last generation's failures. They don't want to return to that anytime soon.

[jbergey22]

Sony is another online hackjob away from seeing their momentum stopped cold. I am fairly certain the majority havent even made up their mind of which console they are going with this round as we havent seen much to separate the two at this point.

The sales figures we do have are likely the diehards that were going to buy the way they did no matter what.

[stevew]

There is no upside to engaging in this debate.

[jeff061]

Winner of this debate directly impacts the long term enjoyment and stability of my chosen platform.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

The sales figures we do have are likely the diehards that were going to buy the way they did no matter what.

Exactly. By the time this is over both companies will have sold in excess of 70 million consoles each and there will be a ton of great games for both of them.

Whichever way someone goes, they are going to get a great console with so many games they won't have the time to play them all.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Winner of this debate directly impacts the long term enjoyment and stability of my chosen platform.

how the ai

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by stevew

There is no upside to engaging in this debate.

But where else are we going to be able to get the insights of such an industry expert?

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Whichever way someone goes, they are going to get a great console with so many games they won't have the time to play them all.

You talking about consoles or Steam?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You talking about consoles or Steam?

I'm talking about the consoles, but it would apply to Steam as well.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Rumors on Amazon's new console. If the part about a $300 price point is true, this thing is dead in the water.

Amazon’s Android console to launch this year priced below $300 | VG247

Sony's UK boss says shortages will continue through April.

PS4 will remain in limited supply until April, says Sony - VideoGamer.com

Sony introducing VR headset to the public next month.

Sony set to reveal PS4 virtual reality headset at GDC 2014 | News | TechRadar

And PS4 launched in Japan just a few minutes ago.

[markprior22]

Was looking for some info on the latest PS4 firmware update and ran across this statement in an article by The Christian Post.

Like the PS3, the PS4 has a Blu-ray drive that can also play DVDs and is backwards compatible with PS3 games, and eventually will be able to play PS and PS2 titles, according to Sony.

I didn't think the PS4 was bw compatible with PS3 games.

[Kodos]

It's not.

[Neon_Chaos]

Nope, not natively. The PS4 architecture is different from PS3.

Yoshida did talk about the possibility of emulation and cloud solutions.

Backwards Compatibility - PlayStation 4 Wiki Guide - IGN

The PS Now obviously represents the cloud.

There is always the possibility for the PS4 to run legacy games via emulation in the future. The Ps4 bluray drive can read PS3 discs.

[Ryan S]

Xbox One gets a $50 price cut plus a packaged game in the UK. It will be interesting to see if there is a response from Sony.

Microsoft announces first Xbox One price cut - and throws in Titanfall for free • News • Xbox One • Eurogamer.net

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

Xbox One gets a $50 price cut plus a packaged game in the UK. It will be interesting to see if there is a response from Sony.

Microsoft announces first Xbox One price cut - and throws in Titanfall for free • News • Xbox One • Eurogamer.net

The package is available in North America as well for $499. Obviously, it's a clear indication from MS that they are seeing the same sales trends being reported throughout the world. There's no reason to do this otherwise. Couple other things.

-It should be clarified that this is not a packaged game. It's an X1 with a download code for Titanfall. Obviously a cost savings there for MS. In addition, the code cannot be resold to resellers.

-The deal was needed far more in Europe. Not only did they add the game, but they dropped the price down. They had more leeway to do that in Europe where the console in US dollars is still over $650.

-You'll note that, much like the FIFA deal overseas, this is a limited quantity deal. They'll shoot a few hundred thousand of these into the wild and they'll create a temporary demand, but it's clear that they're not planning on continuing to keep download codes included for too long.

Overall, it's a step in the right direction that allows them a bit of time to figure out how to deal with the bigger problems with the system.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Ouch. This is why you don't cut a system price so early. Irritates the early adopters and encourages them to wait longer in future generations because they assume the cuts will come sooner rather than later.

Xbox One UK price cut is a middle finger to early adopters | VG247

[jeff061]

I guess, but if you are an early adopter this is what happens. If I take an early plunge on anything(not just consoles) it's with the expectation that there may be issues yet to be ironed out and that I'm likely paying a premium.

[jbergey22]

Agree, pretty much expected.

I buy Out of the Park Baseball every year knowing it will be half price during the All Star break because I want it early so I can play it early.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I guess, but if you are an early adopter this is what happens. If I take an early plunge on anything(not just consoles) it's with the expectation that there may be issues yet to be ironed out and that I'm likely paying a premium.

Exactly..

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I guess, but if you are an early adopter this is what happens. If I take an early plunge on anything(not just consoles) it's with the expectation that there may be issues yet to be ironed out and that I'm likely paying a premium.

Yes, but it doesn't normally happen after three months. It's usually a minimum of a year, if not longer. Not only that, but I'm sure most believe that further price cuts are coming sooner rather than later and they may hold off even further assuming that a $399 X1 will be here by the holidays. Outside of Titanfall, it's not like there's a lot of must haves between now and the fall. In addition, most would have to assume that a price cut for the PS4 wouldn't be far behind. It may make some move on the console, but I think for the most part, it will only induce more waiting.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I guess, but if you are an early adopter this is what happens. If I take an early plunge on anything(not just consoles) it's with the expectation that there may be issues yet to be ironed out and that I'm likely paying a premium.

But why be reasonable about it when it can be used as an opportunity to talk about how shitty Microsoft is?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by mckerney

But why be reasonable about it when it can be used as an opportunity to talk about how shitty Microsoft is?