The official 2008 MLB thread

[JPhillips]

Supposedly Micah Owings is a part of the Dunn deal. Anyone know if he's as uninspiring as he appears on paper?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Supposedly Micah Owings is a part of the Dunn deal. Anyone know if he's as uninspiring as he appears on paper?

When I saw his name on the list, I wondered if he was one of the players to be named because it just didn't make sense to trade a player like Dunn for next to nothing.

He had a good year last year, I remember. And he hits well, but that's a bit of limited usefulness in a pitcher.

SI

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

When I saw his name on the list, I wondered if he was one of the players to be named because it just didn't make sense to trade a player like Dunn for next to nothing.

He had a good year last year, I remember. And he hits well, but that's a bit of limited usefulness in a pitcher.

SI

14-10 in the fifth inning. In sane. Sox lead 12-2, Texas scores 8 in the fifth, and the Sox have scored two in the bottom of the fifth so far.

[sterlingice]

And now it's tied- fun game to watch on gameday (watching the Olympics on tv)

SI

[mauchow]

15-14 rangers

[BishopMVP]

19-17 final, tying the AL record for combined runs in a game. Youk 2 HR's, Papi 2 HR's (and a borderline 3rd they ruled fan interference). Both Marlon Byrd and Pedroia go 5-6. Pedroia's 5th 4-hit game of the season.

[molson]

The Sox have some issues in the starting rotation...and bullpen.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

The Sox have some issues in the starting rotation...and bullpen.

i dunno - i think their starting rotation has been fine up until wakefield went down.


beckett's W-L doesn't reflect the fact that he's had a strong season (not as dominant as last year, but still strong), Dice-K is virtually unhittable (just doesn't always or often go deep into games), Lester has been phenomenal. Wakefield was pitching very Wakefield-ish before he went down, which is to say "solid #4". Bucholz has been a disaster though(a lot of people saying the blame for that goes on the FO and the organization for altering his delivery and totally fucking him up psychologically). But really he's your #5 guy.

The issue right now is that with your #4 down, and essentially a AAA-guy at #5, you are now forced to throw up 2 AAA-guys everytime through the rotation (since Colon isn't back yet). That's where hopefully the acquisition of Byrd may help out.

On a side-note, I don't understand why anyone would want to change the delivery of a pitcher. It's like fucking with the throwing-motion of a QB. These guys are elite athletes who have been doing things in that particular way since they were young kids - why organizations continue to think that they know better and can change things for the better baffles the fuck out of me.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i dunno - i think their starting rotation has been fine up until wakefield went down.


beckett's W-L doesn't reflect the fact that he's had a strong season (not as dominant as last year, but still strong), Dice-K is virtually unhittable (just doesn't always or often go deep into games), Lester has been phenomenal. Wakefield was pitching very Wakefield-ish before he went down, which is to say "solid #4". Bucholz has been a disaster though(a lot of people saying the blame for that goes on the FO and the organization for altering his delivery and totally fucking him up psychologically). But really he's your #5 guy.

The issue right now is that with your #4 down, and essentially a AAA-guy at #5, you are now forced to throw up 2 AAA-guys everytime through the rotation (since Colon isn't back yet). That's where hopefully the acquisition of Byrd may help out.

On a side-note, I don't understand why anyone would want to change the delivery of a pitcher. It's like fucking with the throwing-motion of a QB. These guys are elite athletes who have been doing things in that particular way since they were young kids - why organizations continue to think that they know better and can change things for the better baffles the fuck out of me.

Lots of reasons, just because it worked growing up doesn't mean it's the "best" answer. I'd also assume in a lot of cases it's either a flaw in the mechanic itself or it's done for a health related reason. Obviously it's not always the best or right answer and there'll be times where it's guys making a decision and just flat our getting it wrong. But it's pretty early to say that Bucholz won't reach his potential and if you want to go to the extreme the other way, the whole process worked out pretty well for Halladay who pretty much reset his entire career when they changed his delivery.

[DaddyTorgo]

fair nuff travis

[Travis]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

fair nuff travis

Heh, don't get me wrong, it's obviously the wrong answer in a lot of cases (especially if they're doing it to fit a mold vs finding a true concern in their current mechanics) as well, but in the end that's why it's important to have a good coaching staff at the major league level and in the minors. Sad to think how many careers have been wrecked because of things like that while obviously others have been greatly enhanced/prolonged due to similar decisions.

[BishopMVP]

I think the bigger problem with Buchholz is they're trying to force him into their idea of an ace where he throws first-pitch fastballs for strikes and uses that to set up his off-speed stuff. It's pretty obvious his change and curveball are his two best pitches and I don't know why they're so opposed to having him lead off hitters with those. The other problem is he isn't a AAA pitcher - he dominates AAA every time he goes down, even when his fastball isn't working because they can't hit his off-speed stuff there and he really won't gain much from going down, but at the same time obviously a pennant race is not when you want him working out the issues at an MLB level. On the plus side, it seemed like Lester had problems just as big for a year+ until about May this year, but he had a knack for getting out of bases-loaded jams and getting strikeouts after getting himself in trouble while Buccholz seems to be very unlucky, both with cheap hits falling in or HR/FB ratio.

The bullpen is partly poor talent or inconsistency and partly poor managing by Francona. He insists on bringing in Delcarmen+Okajima with guys on base when they allow like 80% of inherited runners to score, and last night for example I don't understand why Masterson wasn't in the game 5th/6th inning - he can go 2-3 innings and he's an extreme GB pitcher, yet you're bringing in MDC (who is terrible with guys on) with 2 guys on instead of the guy who might get a DP and who can go more than an inning bridging the gap?

For fans of the draft, the August 15 deadline is days away, and all the overslot signings should be packed in. Rumor has the RS giving 1m+ to 4th/5th round picks Hissey and Westmoreland. Outside shot at signing Alex Meyer or Navery Moore, two 1st-round level pitchers who both are leaning heavily towards college. And, FWIW, PG just started touting Bryce Walker - a freshman in HS not eligible until 2012 - saying he could go #1 overall as a pitcher, catcher or SS and would have been a top 10 pick this year if eligible. It's starting to get like basketball where they rank 11y/o's.

[korme]

Hey, if Micah Owings doesn't work out, we can always turn him into our next corner OF, Rick Ankiel style!

I heard the third and final piece to the puzzle is a catcher (Castillo maybe?), who is good defensively and has the potential to have a little pop in his bat, but will eventually never pan out to be better than replacement level.

Sweet, sounds like Jason LaRue all over again.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Buchholz needs his fastball - when he just throws his offspeed stuff, as good as it is, he gets shelled. He just can't command his fastball. Once he figures out how to do that, he'll be fine.

I'm not denying he needs fastball command, my problem is that based off quotes and pitch selection they seem to be forcing him into the Beckett/Schilling/Lester mode where the pitcher leads off with fastballs and only throws the off-speed stuff later in they count when there are plenty of pitchers who have been successful using primarily off-speed stuff early in the count and using the fastball to keep the hitters off balance. It's an academic debate at this point, as he can't locate his fastball for shit in any count and hitters can sit on the other pitches.

[BishopMVP]

The Richie Sexson experiment didn't last long in NY and somewhat surprisingly Melky is going down too. Remember when the Yankees thought Melky+Ian Kennedy was too much for Santana?

The New York Post reports that the Yankees will demote Melky Cabrera to Triple-A and waive Richie Sexson prior to Friday's game.

According to the newspaper, Brett Gardner and Cody Ransom will be called up from Triple-A to fill their spots on the roster. Cabrera is hitting just .242/.296/.337 in 117 games and Sexson has hit .221/.321/.381 in 96 games overall, including .250/.371/.393 with the Yankees.

And for more evidence why Dusty Baker is terrible

"Aug 14 ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reports Cincinnati Reds SP Aaron Harang has gone 1-6 with an 8.49 ERA in the last 2 1/2 months, and many wonder if his struggles and his forearm injury could be a direct result of manager Dusty Baker using Harang in a relief outing. Harang threw 63 pitches on two days' rest in a May 25 18-inning game and started on three days' rest afterward."

[JPhillips]

Melky would be one of the Reds biggest offensive threats.

And yes, using Harang as he did was incredibly stupid, but that game was a tornado of stupid. I really liked when he subbed out Dunn after he'd gone 2-4 with a HR and a walk. At least he had the sense to let Corey Patterson go 0 for 8. (It was almost enough to make me cry when I realized that even after his 0 for 8, Patterson had a higher average than he has now.)

[stevew]

The pirates finally got a deal done with bore sss and their number one pick. 6 million on a mInor league deal. Far off of the 10m deal that was rumored. This process is friggin stupid tho as I'm sure the pirates would have been happy with that deal on june 2. Instead boras wastes 2 months development time.

[Bearcat729]

Dodgers reportedly will get Maddux in trade with Padres

ESPN.com news services

Updated: August 18, 2008, 10:09 PM ET

The Dodgers addressed their offense for the stretch run by acquiring Manny Ramirez. Now it looks like they've done something about the pitching staff.

On The Move Again?

For the second time in three seasons, it looks like Greg Maddux isn't going to end the season where he started it. That would make Maddux the only pitcher to be traded twice in midseason after reaching 300-plus wins.

Traded With 300-Plus Wins 2006 2008
Traded By Cubs Padres
Traded To Dodgers Dodgers
Wins At Time 327 353
W-L with L.A. 6-3* ??
*Made postseason



The Los Angeles Times reported on Monday night that the team had agreed to the terms of a deal with the Padres for veteran right-hander Greg Maddux. Citing an anonymous person close to the deal, the newspaper did not know who San Diego would receive in return.

According to ESPN.com's Jayson Stark, no deal has been reached, but conversations are ongoing. Dodgers spokesman Josh Rawitch and general manager Ned Colletti would not confirm the deal to the Times either.

Maddux has a 3.99 ERA this season but is only 6-9 for a Padres team that has languished in last place in the weak NL West. The Dodgers moved into a first-place tie with the Diamondbacks in the division on Sunday.

Los Angeles had a need for another starter, however, after putting right-hander Brad Penny on the disabled list last week.

This would be Maddux's second stint with the Dodgers. The Cubs traded him to Los Angeles at the trade deadline in 2006 and he went 6-3 in the regular season for the Dodgers. Los Angeles lost to the Mets in the divisional series.

The Dodgers completed a trade for Ramirez with the Red Sox on Aug. 1, and he has batted .421 with six homers and 21 RBIs for Los Angeles.

[lighthousekeeper]

So Maddux passed through waivers?! Or do I just not understand how things work?

[SackAttack]

Well:

a) Maddux has a no-trade clause, which he would only waive for a contending team on the West Coast. Thus,
b) any team who would place a claim, other than the Dodgers, would be doing so solely to block a move, and
c) Until yesterday, three teams in the NL East, three in the Central, and the Diamondbacks were all lower on the waiver priority list than the Dodgers were, and thus could not have blocked the Dodgers' waiver claim.

Depending on when the waiver claim was executed, none of the potential playoff teams in the NL could have blocked the Dodgers, as the weakness of the NL West worked in their favor in terms of being both competitive for the division AND trailing the rest of the contenders, record-wise.

Perfect storm.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Well:

a) Maddux has a no-trade clause, which he would only waive for a contending team on the West Coast. Thus,
b) any team who would place a claim, other than the Dodgers, would be doing so solely to block a move, and
c) Until yesterday, three teams in the NL East, three in the Central, and the Diamondbacks were all lower on the waiver priority list than the Dodgers were, and thus could not have blocked the Dodgers' waiver claim.

Depending on when the waiver claim was executed, none of the potential playoff teams in the NL could have blocked the Dodgers, as the weakness of the NL West worked in their favor in terms of being both competitive for the division AND trailing the rest of the contenders, record-wise.

Perfect storm.

makes sense. i didn't consider how piss-poor those nl west playoff contender's records are. at first i thought a team like the phillies or yankees should have blocked, but even they have better records than the dodgers.

[lighthousekeeper]

so of course the diamondbacks or dodgers will win the ws this year.

[miami_fan]

Am I reading the stats right? C.C. Sabathia has taken over the NL lead for complete games already?

[miami_fan]

I am not a Braves fan but my goodness, this streak has been absolutely BRUTAL!

[JonInMiddleGA]

re: the Braves

Here's the lead from the game story in today's edition of the AJC

St. Louis — A thesaurus is as useful as a media guide for covering the Braves these days. One needs a variety of words to describe the repeated debacles.

[BishopMVP]

Rays finally lose last night, on a shambolic play by the most hated man in baseball, AJ Pierzynski. Lunges with an elbow at a fielder during a run-down, gets called interference by the umps. Even worse, the commentators congratulate AJ on a good baserunning play. Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | MLB.com: Multimedia

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Even worse, the commentators congratulate AJ on a good baserunning play.

Let me guess, Hawk Harrelson? Worst announcer in baseball.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Rays finally lose last night, on a shambolic play by the most hated man in baseball, AJ Pierzynski. Lunges with an elbow at a fielder during a run-down, gets called interference by the umps. Even worse, the commentators congratulate AJ on a good baserunning play. Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | MLB.com: Multimedia

pussy move

[Young Drachma]

Tampa Bay is gonna move. No way that experiment is gonna last another decade. Especially if they can find a way to string together a few more winning seasons. It'll be like I've mapped in all of my dynasties. Especially after the Marlins get their new ballpark.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Tampa Bay is gonna move. No way that experiment is gonna last another decade. Especially if they can find a way to string together a few more winning seasons. It'll be like I've mapped in all of my dynasties. Especially after the Marlins get their new ballpark.

They drew 12,678 yesterday (30.7% of capacity). Maybe they should move before the season's over.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by stevew

The pirates finally got a deal done with bore sss and their number one pick. 6 million on a mInor league deal. Far off of the 10m deal that was rumored. This process is friggin stupid tho as I'm sure the pirates would have been happy with that deal on june 2. Instead boras wastes 2 months development time.

Hold that thought.

[stevew]

Yeah. You must have missed my tirade on the matter.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yeah. You must have missed my tirade on the matter.

I figure if I'm not the person being pinged in the thread title, I shouldn't be reading the thread.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

I figure if I'm not the person being pinged in the thread title, I shouldn't be reading the thread.

Ah, of course. Because steve figured Scott Boras would happen along and decided to start a thread for him to read. Good thinking, steve.

[Radii]

I assume that at this point all us Cubs fans are just terrified to post anything in this thread, or anywhere else, for fear that things might start to go wrong?

[Neuqua]

Originally Posted by Radii

I assume that at this point all us Cubs fans are just terrified to post anything in this thread, or anywhere else, for fear that things might start to go wrong?

shut UP!

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Ah, of course. Because steve figured Scott Boras would happen along and decided to start a thread for him to read. Good thinking, steve.

:shrug: I stop reading at the word "ping". I also tend to ignore the "Alright boyz" posts because anyone who would use the word "boyz" in a thread title is likely an imbecile whose opinions are merely the ravings of a slack-jawed rube. Internet memes don't HAVE to be followed.

[JPhillips]

More Dusty Baker goodness I saw on RedReporter.

2008 Reds

Caught stealing + Picked off = 59
Stolen bases = 74

Worst. Manager. Ever.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

:shrug: I stop reading at the word "ping". I also tend to ignore the "Alright boyz" posts because anyone who would use the word "boyz" in a thread title is likely an imbecile whose opinions are merely the ravings of a slack-jawed rube. Internet memes don't HAVE to be followed.

Message board snob.

Does The New Yorker have a message board? You should post over there.

[Logan]

Carlos Beltran cranks a bomb of a grand slam, down a run in the top of the 9th. All runners reached with 2 outs.

[Lathum]

monster hit with the phillies going down today?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by molson

They drew 12,678 yesterday (30.7% of capacity). Maybe they should move before the season's over.

Hell the Expos did better than that when they were winning. Geez. That said, you couldn't pick a better situation to get a team moved. Awful stadium, team on the rise in a market that could care less and would rather root for the Yankees and Red Sox.

Maybe make them play home games there once series a year for the next decade or something and let Portland or Northern Jersey get a team and be done with it.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by molson

Message board snob.

Does The New Yorker have a message board? You should post over there.

I checked; if they've got one it doesn't appear to be linked from their index page. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Luckily for y'all, I don't post much over here either.

Back on topic, I see that Eric Hosmer has been pulled out of his Pioneer League game at the commissioner's request. It's looking more and more as though MLB and the MLBPA are going to play hardball with one another over this, which has got to suck for KC fans. If Hosmer's deal is nullified, either he's going to go back into next year's draft or someone's going to outbid KC for his services. I wish Scott Boras DID post here so that JiMG could hope for him to get hit by a bus.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Tampa Bay is gonna move. No way that experiment is gonna last another decade. Especially if they can find a way to string together a few more winning seasons. It'll be like I've mapped in all of my dynasties. Especially after the Marlins get their new ballpark.

Except they're building a new ballpark, and it looks amazing and/or ridiculous. I don't know if the demographics of the area (City of the Living Dead and people having prior allegiances) work for having an MLB team, but they will have one of the best locations for a stadium if the deal holds up.


In other news, I don't understand how the Rays keep winning. I understand they're a very good team, but it just seems like they're coming from behind in the 8th or 9th to win every other night. And great news for Sox fans, as Beckett's elbow checked out and he doesn't need surgery (side note - what is it about Dr. James Andrews? Is he really that much better than any shoulder/arm surgeon in the US or what?) And Michael Bowden, yet another top prospect for the Sox gets the start tonight due to the injury situations. Kind of surprising, as he's only 21 and it was thought he wouldn't be ready until next year, but with the revolving door at SP he's gotta be better than Charlie Zink. His stuff isn't as good as Buchholz's, but he does have better command and he can pitch from the stretch.

EDIT - Oh wow, all 5'7 160 of Dustin Pedroia is now our cleanup hitter. What was that about injuries Mike1409?

[Buccaneer]

Please tell me that monstrosity over the field is retractable.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Please tell me that monstrosity over the field is retractable.

Of course not. It's the rocket engine.

[Logan]

The Marlins' Cody Ross is pissed and empties the benches because he got hit by a 2-2 fastball in the 2nd inning. Fucking loser.

edit: Hahahahaha and then Pelfrey picks him off.

[Mike1409]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Except they're building a new ballpark, and it looks amazing and/or ridiculous. I don't know if the demographics of the area (City of the Living Dead and people having prior allegiances) work for having an MLB team, but they will have one of the best locations for a stadium if the deal holds up.


In other news, I don't understand how the Rays keep winning. I understand they're a very good team, but it just seems like they're coming from behind in the 8th or 9th to win every other night. And great news for Sox fans, as Beckett's elbow checked out and he doesn't need surgery (side note - what is it about Dr. James Andrews? Is he really that much better than any shoulder/arm surgeon in the US or what?) And Michael Bowden, yet another top prospect for the Sox gets the start tonight due to the injury situations. Kind of surprising, as he's only 21 and it was thought he wouldn't be ready until next year, but with the revolving door at SP he's gotta be better than Charlie Zink. His stuff isn't as good as Buchholz's, but he does have better command and he can pitch from the stretch.

EDIT - Oh wow, all 5'7 160 of Dustin Pedroia is now our cleanup hitter. What was that about injuries Mike1409?

I guess it worked!

We had Ben Zobrist hitting cleanup one game a week or so ago.

The stadium deal has been pulled. It was a beautiful design with a retractable sail. A lot of the older residents don't want a new stadium 8 blocks from a supposedly good stadium, even though it was 10 years old before a baseball team played there.

If a new stadium gets built in St. Pete it will more than likely be built in the northern part for a little easier access from Tampa but without the waterfront view.

[sterlingice]

Actually, I kindof like the design if it works.

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

lol at the delusional unnamed yankee quoted in Paul Heyman's 8/29 article about why the yankees are done.

But perhaps no one is a greater enigma than Cano. The dropoff is so severe and significant that one Yankee said, "Just look at [Red Sox second baseman Dustin] Pedroia, and the year he's having. The difference between him and Cano is the difference between the teams. Pedroia doesn't have one-quarter the talent of Cano, but he's outplaying him by a mile.''

I think that's so ludicrous that I don't even need to bother to lay out a bunch of stats to disprove it. It's laugh-out-loud funny.