Werewolf: XIV Spawn (GAME OVER! Please give feedback)

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Post #1001 - Fouts posts list who voted for Schmidty - includes Vince but not Dubb

Thats because Dubb voted for Marc. I went back to make sure. I love how you post good info and manage to slant it the way you see fit.

BTW, saldana changed his vote late from marc to schmidty to cause the tie. Why is he getting a free ride after that move??

[hoopsguy]

Dubb and KWhit have been kind of interesting - check out Post #517, immediately after the Schmidty vote:

I'm clean, I'm pretty sure KWhit is clean, Schmidty seems adament that he is clean but what about Fouts, Passacaglia, and pennywisesb? One of Pennywise or Passacaglia could have been Spawn b/c the general rule(in my experience) is atleast 3 badguys to start. Only 2 attacked Vince, where was the other one?

Keep in mind, the two that attacked Vince in this case was the spawn attack, not the second attack in the brig.

That, coupled with Dubb's cryptic comment in #1095 about KWhit having his back. Just a weird dynamic between those two when reviewing Dubb's posts.

We now know that the Schmidty/MarcV vote was between a spawn/non-spawn. So it makes sense to review that one more time. Of course, I'm putting myself at some risk of scrutiny here since I voted for Schmidty on that day.

[hoopsguy]

Fouts, I prefaced the whole thing by saying I had some of my interpretations in there. In whole, I think you come off looking better than Blade here.

I also include the post numbers so that other people can review it and draw their own conclusions. Having multiple people looking at this type of info should be beneficial, I think. But I'm not inclined to post 100% clinically after I put in significant research time on it. I have opinions as I review the data and I'm going to post them. Just as everyone is entitled to respond to them.

[jeff061]

I'm totally at a loss as to why two spawn voted for Marc in a close vote.

[hoopsguy]

From Post #495

Vote Tally
Marc Vaughan (7) -- Dubb, Lathum, Mr. Wednesday, Mr Bug, pennywisesb, Raiders Army, Schmidty
Schmidty (7) -- Ardent, hoopsguy, jeff, King, KWhit, Saldana, Vince

Neither Fouts nor Blade have a vote on here. But KWhit does cast the vote for the non-spawn versus the spawn.

Dubb knew that he was voting for a spawn here, since he was the Hive Mind. The other two on the council should have known this as well. I find it hard to believe that multiple members of the Council would have voted in this fashion. This only makes sense if they were trying to spread out their numbers. Or if Dubb just threw the vote out there on Marc early and didn't think it would look good to switch it late. Have to go back and look at the voting order here to try and make sense of this.

But I doubt we will find another member of the Council on this list voting for Marc. I think we are likely to find one on the list for Schmidty.

[hoopsguy]

I'm guessing Raiders was not on the spawn council. He didn't know for sure that Dubb was spawn until after his exam.

Raiders pointed out that he was looking at important people during his doctors visits. And clearing them. But instead of trying to help us identify spawn, he was looking for his companions. He would have been able to key future votes off of Dubb after ID'ing him.

[Fouts]

FWIW, when I posted my evidence regarding Vince's vote for Schmidty, I was under the impression he was the tying vote. That was incorrect as Barkeep didn't list them in order. The last two votes were jeff and saldana to tie it up.

[hoopsguy]

Of course, this makes it less likely that the attack on Vince in the brig was coordinated. Unless Dubb was able to issue a conditional order such as:

"I'll join an attack on the doctor if Raiders attacks him"

Thoughts?

[jeff061]

I thought the Marc vote was going way to easy, and there was a little less of a "fuck it" air around the people who voted Schmidty. So I switched.

[jeff061]

Maybe they both sent an unconditional order to attack.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

From Post #495

Vote Tally
Marc Vaughan (7) -- Dubb, Lathum, Mr. Wednesday, Mr Bug, pennywisesb, Raiders Army, Schmidty
Schmidty (7) -- Ardent, hoopsguy, jeff, King, KWhit, Saldana, Vince

Neither Fouts nor Blade have a vote on here. But KWhit does cast the vote for the non-spawn versus the spawn.

Yes, I had to leave for class and we hadn't starting voting yet (post #338). I thought we would do as the first day and not vote anyone for lynching until more info came in.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

That, coupled with Dubb's cryptic comment in #1095 about KWhit having his back. Just a weird dynamic between those two when reviewing Dubb's posts.

I don't think we can take much from this. I think dubb was trying to win 'till the end, and wanted us to think about going after KWhit next. If anything, this makes me less suspicious of KWhit.

[hoopsguy]

Order of votes on Marc:
Post #383 - Jeff
Post #385 - Saldana
Post #387 - SnDvls
Post #412 - MrW
Post #418 - MrBug (unvoted Pennywise)
Post #426 - Schmidty
Post #439 - Dubb (?????) 90 minutes before, deciding 7th vote at the time. Schmidty had two votes at this time
Post #447 Lathum
Post #459 - Raiders
Post #460 - KWhit votes for Schmidty
Post #478 - Saldana casts final vote (switch from MarcV to Schmidty), 11 minutes before deadline, just five minutes after Jeff switches

If interested, I can pull the order of votes on Schmidty up as well. I've tried to provide some context in here for when votes took place for Schmidty that were interesting to me.

FWIW, I voted for Schmidty in Post #445. I thought I was 2nd to vote for him but was in fact 3rd as I had missed Vince's vote for him. Tally was 7-3 MarcV vs Schmidty at that point.

[RealDeal]

Part of what has made this challenging is how the spawn have acted so far. Between voting for MV and attacking Vince in the brig, I can't decide if they're too smart for me or too dumb for me.

[jeff061]

Yeah, three nights and it doesn't seem like the spawn have accomplished anything yet, other than being fairly well hidden now.

[RealDeal]

Dola,

Here's what I do know: the single most important role other than Vince right now is probably Blade's. As long as he can put me, pass, AE and Vince in the brig together, Vince is safe, unless AE was somehow converted between his first scan and the time we lifted off, which I think is doubtful since it appears that Vince was attakced both nights.

That means we can put Vince in the brig and know he will be safe, and as long as he is safe, he gets a scan every day cycle. The scan is as good, even better, in fact than a lynching because we don't lose good guys on them.

So Blade has to be the next scan, and Blade needs to put the same four of us in the brig every day until the end. Also, it probably would pay to have someone guard the brig to keep it from being damaged.

[hoopsguy]

Pass, I'll start putting a case together against KWhit since Jeff doesn't seem interested in doing it. I'm not saying that KWhit is guilty - I don't know. But I think that he is either a boy scout or an original member of spawn council. I don't think he was an Away Team convert or something like that.

Consider this similar to the scenario I concocted in Village of the Damned about how Coffee Warlord might be a werewolf. That was the night before the wolves killed me. And Eagles/Coffee ended up winning that game. That was pretty annoying

[hoopsguy]

I'm guessing that if they can't get the doctor and can't convert then they are content to let us die of thirst. Of course, I think that makes more sense if there are only a couple left. If they have any real numbers then I think they would try to go after us and the facilities a little more aggressively.

I really wish I had some feel for how many are left. That hole in my knowledge is making it considerably tougher to try and project how I would play as a spawn in their position. If you can't define their position, it is hard to think like them.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

Dola,

Here's what I do know: the single most important role other than Vince right now is probably Blade's. As long as he can put me, pass, AE and Vince in the brig together, Vince is safe, unless AE was somehow converted between his first scan and the time we lifted off, which I think is doubtful since it appears that Vince was attakced both nights.

That means we can put Vince in the brig and know he will be safe, and as long as he is safe, he gets a scan every day cycle. The scan is as good, even better, in fact than a lynching because we don't lose good guys on them.

So Blade has to be the next scan, and Blade needs to put the same four of us in the brig every day until the end. Also, it probably would pay to have someone guard the brig to keep it from being damaged.

FYI, you want pass in there from now on and not Mr. W?

[Passacaglia]

Well, hoops, I think you were right about there being more than one spawn -- does that help?

[Passacaglia]

Wow, there are two non-players reading this thread.

[hoopsguy]

Yep, but I would play it totally different if I was one of two spawn left in the game - and we could PM each other - versus being one of three on council and knowing who the other two are that are out there beyond the council.

All in all, this has been a fun game to work through up to this point.

[Barkeep49]

BTW I'm back and have at least 100+ more posts to go to catch up.

[Poli]

Here's the summary. I'm the captain.

[RealDeal]

No, Blade. Keep the same lineup you've been using. Mr. W is fine, also. I trust him and Vince was safe last night. Don't change anything.

[Barkeep49]

I left with the deadline being an absolute deadline. While this might have been different had I been around, I was not, and as the board was clearly up at the time of the vote, I am sticking to that announcement.

The crew has executed someone twice, and twice they have executed a Spawn. However, you would never know it from the moral today. Fear runs rampant through-out the crew. When Vince takes Schmidity into his office for a few hours. Schmidity emerges, having made far less noise than the Captain.

As he hears the call of the gallows, Blade posts what he thinks might be his last list of people placed in protective custody: Vince, Realdeal, Mr W, and Ardent.

In the end the crew hems and haws. At the last moment the crew seems to remember the bloodlust it felt the last two days and decides that a kill, any kill, is better then nothing. However, they just can't work up enough fervor and people begin to disperse to try to go to bed. Penny tries to fire things back up, but too many people have already left the area for anyone to feel like there should be a killing today. And so there is no execution today.

Final Tally:
Blade (5) -- Fouts, jeff, Kwhit, mrbug, sndvls
Fouts (3) -- hoops, realdeal, saldana

[Bek]

thats no good...where does this leave us now?

[hoopsguy]

With an extra mouth to drink water. Seriously, it leaves us with a lot of time for good discussion before the next cycle.

[Barkeep49]

Ok to answer a few questions:

Blade has indeed been trying to find out if he could spy. With my time limitations today I had not had time to give him a response, but the answer is that only the security crewmen and security chief may spy.

Which brings me to my next point. Spy and protect are very limited actions. There has been some public and private grumbling about this. Grumbling is fair enough. Spying will tell you the night actions of the person you are spying on. That is it. However, it does so with 100% accuracy (no dice roll done) and so if the right person is followed around it will result in a damaging action report. Protect, likewise, is just protection. The person you are protecting might not want to be protected and can lose your "cover", perhaps without you even knowing it, and preform night actions.

As for why you can't see your attacker, this too has recieved a few grumblings. The in-game answer is because the Spawn have psychic powers which can shroud your memory. The out of game answer is that it balances things better. Don't forget that this game has many more times the bodyguards of any other spawn game and even in THOSE games typically the bodyguard doesn't find out who the attackers are if the defense is successful.

Finally for the 5 of your who don't know your secret roles, as I write this post, I'm sorry. This number will likely continue to go down and if anyone dies before finding out their secret role, I will gladly tell them posthumously.

I think that answers all of the questions for me today.

Night actions are due by MONDAY at 9 AM

[Bek]

What is the water supply at anyways...never thought about having that extra mouth that needs water...damn we really screwed up tonight

[Poli]

Ahem. I ordered Vince to drug Blade.

[Barkeep49]

Oh yes. Please do not post my PMs. While 95% of them are unique (thus preventing a situation like in Peregrine's game), they are written for your eyes only.

[Poli]

Well, drug Blade then.

[Blade6119]

i can say this, i was just told my private role, and its the one where i find out the secret rule of someone who voted for me...i dont know who, but one of the 5 who voted for me is uncorruptible...

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Bek

What is the water supply at anyways...never thought about having that extra mouth that needs water...damn we really screwed up tonight

Before going to sleep Bek goes to the water plant and checks the supply level. It is at 6.25 units. Current rate of consumption is 4.5 units a day with 1.5 new units being added for a current net loss of 3 units per day.

[hoopsguy]

Pass, in post #1202 you say that Saldana is definitely clean. Why? Jeff, you second this thought in post #1206. Again, why?

[hoopsguy]

Dola -- If there is no galleymaster, or the galleymaster does not send in a list for water distribution, water is given out randomly.

That is from post #1247. I'm hoping that our security personnel will consider hanging out with me to try and prevent this from happening. My night actions will always be either sleep or guard the water.

Did Schmidty ever get a phaser after he was cleared by Vince? Did Fouts ever get a phaser?

[Schmidty]

As far as I know, I still don't have a phaser, and have no idea what I should do tonight because of it.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Sorry about not getting in a vote today... I checked in around 2 pm EST and everything was still in flux, so I was sure a vote would be premature. I was then unable to check in again until well after votes were due, thanks to getting things packed up. The good news is, I should be around a bit on Monday, and I'll make every effort to be able to cast an informed vote.

[hoopsguy]

OK, here is my best effort to paint KWhit as evil. Going through 1500 posts like this takes forever

This is also the first game I've played with KWhit - is this his first werewolf game? For those who have played with him before, is he playing in a manner consistent with other games?


Post #148 - leads an away team with Dubb and the privates. Cackling all the way that he and scienist are on all of these, no way that we are getting water. Maybe 50/50 that Marc is spawn at this point (maybe converted by 10% away team rule)

Post #181 - Dubbs says there are two logical people to get water. Kwhit, since he is leading mission to get water (huh?) and me since I protect water at night. Very possibly a lack of understanding early in game about mechanics, but another instance where the Hive Mind connects with KWhit

Full disclosure post - #192 Dubbs re-iterates that I should be armed with a phaser

Post #219 - KWhit suspicious of Bek (no action) and RealDeal (not ordering action). At this time RealDeal appears to be solid based on backing of Vince.

Post #317 - KWhit suspicious of three newcomers on mission - Fouts, Schmidty, and me. I know I'm not spawn (obviously everyone else does not know and must draw own conclusions). We know from Vince today that Schmidty is not spawn. Fouts? Don't know one way or the other yet

Post #319 - Dubb points out that KWhit and Marc accompany him on all Away Teams, are equally valid candidates to scan. This post does not help an argument of KWhit as council spawn

Post #321/322 - KWhit and Dubb discuss exhaustion as possible reason for bad haul of water on Away Team #2

Post #460 - votes for Schmidty, total is something like 9-4 MarcV/Schmidty at this point. Trying to save a spawn? Trying to split votes from Dubb? Not sure of motivation, but it is a late vote (26 mins before deadline). Certainly not shaping the voting process ...

Post #461 - welcomes an exam at this point - this changes later

Post #517 - Dubb says KWhit is clean

Post #535 - Tells spawn not to come after him at night. Always amusing talking to the enemy when you are the enemy

Post #537 - Tells us to guard engine room and water supply. But spawn are not attacking there, they are attacking Vince in the Brig (what did the Queen do on this evening?)

Post #582 - KWhit happy to be examined unless someone else comes forward about being attacked (if spawn, he knows there will be people in brig that are suspects later on this day)

Post #605 - argues for the big away team mission. Tough to criticize this, but if he is spawn then he knows he can bring multiple targets along to sabotage with less chance of them being targeted

Post #805 - plants idea that Vince could have been infected, also a spawn

Post #813 - very possible for Dubb to be spawn, also suspicious of Vince

Post #817 - cautiously going along with consensus opinions at the time

Post #841 - continuing to ask questions about Vince. Remember, spawn know what happened and would want to protect Dubb here by generating FUD

Post #844 - keeping Penny in the conversation with Dubb/Vince. About four hours before voting, still plenty of time to save Dubb

Post #853 - Dubb as conversion target (not Hive)

Post #872 - Dubb = spawn explains problem with away missions. Has nothing to do with KWhit faking the planning on them

Post #880 - Dubb makes great points, but we want to trust doc

Post #881 - out/AFK (makes sense, end of work day)

Post #1093 - KWhit puts a vote on Dubb five minutes before deadline, no way to save him at that point

Post #1095 - Dubb, knows he is dead, says in response to KWhit 'Way to have my back, the truth will catch up to you and King sooner or later'. King is not spawn - does he want to call out two non-spawn here? Perhaps he is trying to put focus on King here, which is where many of us were headed? Who knows, but this needs to be evaluated. Spawn did not kill King, vigilante did per evidence today.

Post #1150 - Kwhit asks to protect water and him. Water was threatened that night.

Post #1231 - KWhit thinks there may have been other reasons that Fouts seemed spawn-like

Post #1262 - KWhit asks for Schmidty scan. Consistent with group, but good for spawn when a non-spawn is scanned

Post #1269 - KWhit has Penny high on list of trusted crewmates. But Vince still does not trust him (attacked by 2 or 3 in brig?)

Post #1297 - KWhit, responding to questions from Jeff (Fozziephobia), says 'I'm as clean as they get'

Post #1316 - KWhit says that he does not trust Saldana, but trusts Schmidty (before afternoon scan)

Post #1323 - RealDeal is OK, again does not trust Saldana

Post #1334 - scanning him is a wasted scan. Only Jeff suspects, no reasons given

Post #1403 - KWhit wonders why Pass thinks Saldana is clean (re-post of Fouts question)

Post #1417 - doesn't know who to vote for, but we need to kill someone

Post #1420 - leaning towards Saldana, may need to join a bandwagon to ensure kill

Post #1426 - KWhit is again saying he is protected tonight, don't come after him

Post #1442 - wants a lynching tonight (makes a lot of sense)

Post #1451 - votes Blade with two minutes left, but not enough votes to matter.

Post #1472 - hate to lose warden (Blade) on semi-random vote. Just wanted us to get someone today

[Mr. Wednesday]

I recall playing with KWhit in the first mafia game, as he, MrBug, and I were in one of the families. I have no idea how he usually plays, though, because he got killed in the first night.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I killed King.

[Vince]

It's been said a bunch of times already, but we really need to lynch someone every day, if only to conserve water for those of us left. There are plenty of other reasons, but you guys all know how important this is.

My availability may be spotty over the weekend -- I have a UCSB Alumni event tomorrow afternoon, work tomorrow night, and then being quite drunk while watching football all day Sunday I'll be on when I can, no doubt, it just might not be much (how's that been different from all week, Vince? Shut up, smartass ).

[Raiders Army]

Wake me up before you go go.

[hoopsguy]

I've got a few commitments this weekend as well, so there will be some large blocks of time where I'm not around.

[Passacaglia]

Hey guys -- sorry about that. I think the post is a very short one, but I spied on saldana. He didn't leave his room -- that's enough for me to believe he's not spawn. I don't know what the spawn did, but it had to be something.

Night actions are due in half an hour, correct?

[Passacaglia]

Never mind, I see they're due Monday morning.

[Poli]

I have no problem with Kwhit being examined.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I have no problem with Kwhit being examined.

I do, examine me...otherwise ill be defending myself all day

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Pass, in post #1202 you say that Saldana is definitely clean. Why? Jeff, you second this thought in post #1206. Again, why?

Early in the morning following King's death he seemed to think the Spawn killed King, and when I went over his posts the night I was deciding to kill I came away with the impression that he was clean.