NBC: Heroes

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

So which timeline were they working on in this episode? Future Hiro seemed to be of the impression that he stabbed Sylar, only the bomb still went off. So the Future Hiro that former Hiro ran into didn't belong in that timeline?

From my gathering:
In the original timeline, Hiro stabs Sylar, but because Sylar killed Claire, it didn't matter. So Hiro then teleports back to warn Peter to save the cheerleader, then teleports to the future to admire his work. Except nothing changed and the bomb still went off, but what happened to the Hiro that would have existed in that time line? He couldn't have been killed, because he would have had to teleport back in time in the original bomb timeline, in which he would have stabbed Sylar, but Sylar lived to explode. Perhaps someone else can flesh out the timeline for me so that it makes sense.

Yeah, a LOT of questions arise about what in the Hell is going on in what timeline. If Claire is still alive, that means Sylar can't regenerate. That probably means in the new timeline Hiro doesn't stab Sylar. But past Hiro goes back so he can stab Sylar and stop what happened in this episode from happening (the new new timeline?).

So in the original timeline, Sylar is stabbed, but it doesn't matter because he absorbed Claire's power. And Sylar becomes the bomb (also means Peter doesn't meet Claire, so he can't heal scars). When future Hiro goes back and warns Peter, Peter saves the cheerleader, and then Peter becomes the bomb (but if Peter never meets Claire how in the Hell does he survive being the bomb?)... but NYC still goes up in flames. Present Hiro goes back and is supposed to stab Sylar and kill him... but that still leaves the question of Peter being the bomb.

ARGH!!

I'm sure I did something wrong up there.. feel free to point it out.

[Celeval]

But in the original timeline - the one where Peter never met Claire, so has the scar - Claire isn't dead. That's not the timeline where Sylar took Claire.

We're leaving out Linderman. He's the only other one we know of with healing powers - and he's in favor of things happening as is (the Linderman something-or-other was the name of the act that was mentioned in the news broadcast about the 200 families being taken). He could have kept Sylar alive.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

but if Peter never meets Claire how in the Hell does he survive being the bomb?

I think Peter would survive the bomb regardless - when Ted started to go nuclear, and Claire stopped him... she had to heal to get back. Ted looked pretty normal when we saw him next in lockdown with Parkman and Bennett. I'm guessing Ted/Peter as Ted can live through the radiation.

[Swaggs]

I thought that episode was very well done.

They did more in an hour, minus commercials, than most motion pictures do in 1.5-2 hours.

Peter's acting is almost laughable at times. He is half badass, half unintentional comedy.

[Celeval]

I'm looking forward to each episode of this show more than any other I've watched, I think.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yeah, a LOT of questions arise about what in the Hell is going on in what timeline. If Claire is still alive, that means Sylar can't regenerate. That probably means in the new timeline Hiro doesn't stab Sylar. But past Hiro goes back so he can stab Sylar and stop what happened in this episode from happening (the new new timeline?).

But he's going to stab Sylar only because he has Isaac's new comic, which he only just got. Up until now, he hadn't received that, so he didn't know that he was going to (and needed to) stab Sylar.

So in the original timeline, Sylar is stabbed, but it doesn't matter because he absorbed Claire's power.

In the original-original timeline, Sylar had absorbed Claire's power, and there's really not much more that we're aware of beyond that — remember that future-Hiro still believed that Sylar had blown up, whereas Peter had revealed that it was a cover story.

And Sylar becomes the bomb (also means Peter doesn't meet Claire, so he can't heal scars).

If I had to guess at why Peter has the scar, it involves the Haitian, not Claire's powers — remember, she was still alive, so this should already be the timeline where Peter saved her.

Present Hiro goes back and is supposed to stab Sylar and kill him... but that still leaves the question of Peter being the bomb.

Yup.

Successfully killing Sylar wins the post-bomb world, but it's not clear that they actually stop the bomb.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, and Linderman still has a part to play in all this... there's more than one way for Sylar to survive something that would otherwise kill him, and at some point along the way he had taken over the shapeshifting power.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

same thing happened to me, fucking Global's got it all right, fucking bunch of morons cutting off the shows even though they present it an hour earlier to make room for 24 at 9. I was recording off NBC and yet they found a way to put their stupid feed over it. arrrggg, damn they piss me off!

/end rant

FM

ditto!!!

[kingfc22]

I like how those paintings from last episode came into play. So Nathan did reach office, but Sylar killed him and took his place thus the two versions of the same painting.

[gottimd]

Not that it is all that important, but I guess Parkman was lured to help Nathan in the future by being promised that his son (Matthew jr according to the kids painting) was kept alive and free with his mother, Janice.

Still wouldn't understand why the Haitian would continue to help the government? To hide?

Spoiler

So Sylar killed Nathan at some point, and also the shapeshifter chick and god knows who else, to get in the office and create a bill to exterminate all of the other heroes so that he was the most powerful person ever. Sounds kind of like Emperor Palpatine. Who is this Molly girl that can stop Sylar? I know she is the girl that Parkman and that detective chick saved from Sylar earlier in the season. Did her parents have the freezing ability?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

I like how those paintings from last episode came into play. So Nathan did reach office, but Sylar killed him and took his place thus the two versions of the same painting.

This disappointed me. This was the first time I was able to derive what was really going to happen in the next episode from the previews. Having Nathan say "I am the most special person in the world" to Claire in the previews was a dead give away that he was really Sylar. So, there wasn't a big wow moment for me.

I don't think they are going to stop the bomb.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Dola, and Linderman still has a part to play in all this... there's more than one way for Sylar to survive something that would otherwise kill him, and at some point along the way he had taken over the shapeshifting power.

Or that scar on Peters face. Maybe he suffered a huge blow at some point (because the Haitian was around) and Hiro grabbed him and teleported somewhere. Maybe to Linderman who heals him?

Back to Hiro stabbing Sylar, so when he stabbed Sylar, sylar regenerated? Why at that point didn't Sylar kill Hiro?

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I don't think they are going to stop the bomb.

And another point to this fact, why wouldn't future Hiro deduce that maybe he should teleport back and kill Ted? Or for that fact, travel back in time and kill Sylar before he even starts gathering powers?

[Draft Dodger]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

man, people on this show travel FAST. Mohinder goes from DC to NY in milliseconds. Parkman goes from NY to Texas and back while Hiro is getting interrogated. it's AMAZING.

[Izulde]

What a fun, fun episode.

And the montage scene of Future Hiro, Ando, and Peter invading the facility while Nathan gives his speech at the memorial sight was positively brilliant. It reminded me of the baptismal montage scene in The Godfather in some ways.

I had a "Whoa!" moment at Sylar being Nathan. I didn't expect that at all.

[Swaggs]

It is interesting that many of the heroes have died at one point or another. Isaac, Simone, Nathan, Hiro, Ando, Claire, D.L., Micah, the Haitian, Candace, and Eden have all died at one point or another.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Back to Hiro stabbing Sylar, so when he stabbed Sylar, sylar regenerated? Why at that point didn't Sylar kill Hiro?

At this point, I don't think he has stabbed Sylar.

[BrianD]

So in the original timeline, Sylar killed Claire and was able to survive the Hiro stabbing. In the revised timeline Claire was saved but for some reason Hiro didn't stab Sylar? Is that right?

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

At this point, I don't think he has stabbed Sylar.

Correct. But Future Hiro said he stabbed Sylar and regenerated and that is when Future Hiro figured out that they had to Save Claire to save the world. By saving Claire, Sylar wouldn't have those powers and would've died when Future Hiro stabs him.

That being said, when Future Hiro stabbed him and he regenerated, how did he not kill Future Hiro at that moment?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Correct. But Future Hiro said he stabbed Sylar and regenerated and that is when Future Hiro figured out that they had to Save Claire to save the world. By saving Claire, Sylar wouldn't have those powers and would've died when Future Hiro stabs him.

That being said, when Future Hiro stabbed him and he regenerated, how did he not kill Future Hiro at that moment?

Maybe Future Hiro teleported away...?

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Maybe Future Hiro teleported away...?

So with all of those powers, you would think Sylar would be able to sustain a sword wound pretty fast and reheal without much time at all. Even if it took a second, couldn't he do something to Hiro to keep him there in that short time (ie Freeze him?). Peters head healed up quite fast when Sylar attempted to slice it open in the episode 2 weeks ago.

I guess for him to teleport away makes him seem like such a sissy. He stabs him and immediately teleported away without seeing/waiting to find out if he did in fact kill him.

[gottimd]

And another question, why doesn't the company think the Haitian can stop Sylar? Can't the Haitian render Sylar powerless and then you can just kill shoot him or chop him up into little sylar bits and incinerate him?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by gottimd

And another question, why doesn't the company think the Haitian can stop Sylar? Can't the Haitian render Sylar powerless and then you can just kill shoot him or chop him up into little sylar bits and incinerate him?

Where was this mentioned, I missed it.The Haitian stopped Sylar's powers when they first got him in the original timeline...

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by gottimd

So with all of those powers, you would think Sylar would be able to sustain a sword wound pretty fast and reheal without much time at all. Even if it took a second, couldn't he do something to Hiro to keep him there in that short time (ie Freeze him?). Peters head healed up quite fast when Sylar attempted to slice it open in the episode 2 weeks ago.

I guess for him to teleport away makes him seem like such a sissy. He stabs him and immediately teleported away without seeing/waiting to find out if he did in fact kill him.

I don't know lol. I can imagine Sylar just laughing after being stabbed, not realizing what Hiro's power is. Hiro sees that Sylar isn't dying, and then teleports away.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Where was this mentioned, I missed it.The Haitian stopped Sylar's powers when they first got him in the original timeline...

Spoiler

In the previews for next week, the Company (Eric Roberts character) is saying, "Here is molly, the ONLY one who can stop Sylar".

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I don't know lol. I can imagine Sylar just laughing after being stabbed, not realizing what Hiro's power is. Hiro sees that Sylar isn't dying, and then teleports away.

It will also be interesting to see how Hiro can get that close to stab Sylar. I mean other than teleporting and I guess being trained as an expert swordsman (I think hiro mentioned something about that yesterday), how does he sneak up to someone like Sylar who has exceptional hearing, can fly (first time we saw him didnt he fly?), and telekenesis. Sounds nearly impossible, like bullseyeing womp rats in a T-16.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Correct. But Future Hiro said he stabbed Sylar and regenerated and that is when Future Hiro figured out that they had to Save Claire to save the world. By saving Claire, Sylar wouldn't have those powers and would've died when Future Hiro stabs him.

That being said, when Future Hiro stabbed him and he regenerated, how did he not kill Future Hiro at that moment?

And what I wonder is why, if Claire is saved, that Hiro doesn't stab Sylar does he does in the original-original timeline (as it seems he does do)? What about saving Claire means that Hiro doesn't want to kill Sylar?

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

If I had to guess at why Peter has the scar, it involves the Haitian, not Claire's powers — remember, she was still alive, so this should already be the timeline where Peter saved her.

Yes, but even then, you'd think Peter, if he had the healing power, could heal the scar later on. Unless he wanted to keep it... I dunno.


Also, one thing I don't understand is in the altered future, D.L. is apparently still alive (Bennet is protecting him), so how does Sylar have the reach through doors power?

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Also, one thing I don't understand is in the altered future, D.L. is apparently still alive (Bennet is protecting him), so how does Sylar have the reach through doors power?

D.L. isn't alive. Peter was telling Jessica that D.L., Nikki and Micah are all dead. I don't remember Bennet saying he hid him anywhere.

Is the reason why Hiro doesn't go back to, lets say Sylars birth, and kill sylar, will that alter the future too much? Essentially he only wants to go back to warn others of impending disasters and try to stop them without killing someone if he doesn't have to? Wouldn't he have gone back and said "Kill Sylar...Save the World."

[BrianD]

Killing Sylar around the time of his birth could change things way too much. Maybe Mohindar (sp?) is important so having Sylar kill his father was necessary. Having Sylar chasing after Claire also gave Peter some necessary healing powers. Going back too far in time could have messed up an unknown number of things.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Killing Sylar around the time of his birth could change things way too much. Maybe Mohindar (sp?) is important so having Sylar kill his father was necessary. Having Sylar chasing after Claire also gave Peter some necessary healing powers. Going back too far in time could have messed up an unknown number of things.

So he shouldn't go back in time and kill Adam and Eve?

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by gottimd

So he shouldn't go back in time and kill Adam and Eve?

I'd venture this would be a bad idea yeah, but the snake though...

FM

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by gottimd

It will also be interesting to see how Hiro can get that close to stab Sylar. I mean other than teleporting and I guess being trained as an expert swordsman (I think hiro mentioned something about that yesterday), how does he sneak up to someone like Sylar who has exceptional hearing, can fly (first time we saw him didnt he fly?), and telekenesis. Sounds nearly impossible, like bullseyeing womp rats in a T-16.

Sylar can only fly in the future because he took that from Nathan, since he is mimicing him. We can also assume that Sylar was able to mimic someone then the girl that was helping the company that could do that is dead in the future too.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by dangarion

Sylar can only fly in the future because he took that from Nathan, since he is mimicing him. We can also assume that Sylar was able to mimic someone then the girl that was helping the company that could do that is dead in the future too.

I understand that, but I am talking the first time we saw Sylar in the alley, when Parkman and Clea Duvall (whatever her characters name is) chased him in a dark alley. This was before we even saw Sylars face. Didn't they shoot at him, they thought they got him and he got up and flew away?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by gottimd

I understand that, but I am talking the first time we saw Sylar in the alley, when Parkman and Clea Duvall (whatever her characters name is) chased him in a dark alley. This was before we even saw Sylars face. Didn't they shoot at him, they thought they got him and he got up and flew away?

It was never determined how he got away.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Celeval

I'm looking forward to each episode of this show more than any other I've watched, I think.

Me too. Glad I didn't watch the previews last week. I didn't realize Nathan was really Sylar until I heard that line in the episode as it was happening. That was one of the most enjoyable hours of TV I've ever experienced on network TV.

[cmgdodgers]

Originally Posted by gottimd

It will also be interesting to see how Hiro can get that close to stab Sylar. I mean other than teleporting and I guess being trained as an expert swordsman (I think hiro mentioned something about that yesterday), how does he sneak up to someone like Sylar who has exceptional hearing, can fly (first time we saw him didnt he fly?), and telekenesis. Sounds nearly impossible, like bullseyeing womp rats in a T-16.

Unless I'm missing something I would assume Hiro could stop time, walk up to Sylar and stab him, then walk away.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by cmgdodgers

Unless I'm missing something I would assume Hiro could stop time, walk up to Sylar and stab him, then walk away.

You'd hope that he'd not just stab him, but cut off his head and burn it.

I mean, they still have all the Jason movies in this universe right? Or can Sylar regrow his head like the alien in MIB?

[Honolulu_Blue]

A small quibble on an otherwise great (though slightly confusing) episode. Hiro, Ando, and Peter's assault on the Homeland Security base was very Matrix-esque. I liked it, especially with the voice over. The only thing that was sort of odd was that all of the Homeland Security guys were armed with assault rifles, but never fired a shot. Instead, you saw them just standing around in a circle waiting to attack Hiro hand-to-hand or running down the hallway to attack Peter, again hand-to-hand. Were their rifles jammed or something?

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Were their rifles jammed or something?

Good point.

I wonder what the range is on the Haitians power? They said since he is on the top floor he would essentially render them useless when they get up there. Does he have to see the person with power to "mute" their power? And like HB said, if Hiro can take out all of those guys with rifles, why would he care about taking the elevator and facing all of the guards with guns with parkman, why not just slice and dice like he did downstairs?

Can anyone explain why the Haitian can't essentially stop Sylar? Instead of Hiro risking his life getting so close, why can't the haitian just be in the general vicinity of Sylar and then everyone, including bums off the street just beat him to death?

Spoiler

I wonder what Molly Parkers power are. I read somewhere that it may be the power of magnification, like she amplifies your powers, but not sure how that would help be the key in destroying Sylar. I still don't understand why the Haitian can't kill Sylar?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Good point.

I wonder what the range is on the Haitians power? They said since he is on the top floor he would essentially render them useless when they get up there. Does he have to see the person with power to "mute" their power? And like HB said, if Hiro can take out all of those guys with rifles, why would he care about taking the elevator and facing all of the guards with guns with parkman, why not just slice and dice like he did downstairs?

Can anyone explain why the Haitian can't essentially stop Sylar? Instead of Hiro risking his life getting so close, why can't the haitian just be in the general vicinity of Sylar and then everyone, including bums off the street just beat him to death?

That really does raise a good point. I was always under (the apparently mistaken) impression that the Hatian's powers only blocked mental powers. That is clearly wrong. It would seem that if the Hatian ever got near Sylar that Sylar's powers would be cancelled out. It seems like a pretty effective way of dealing with him.

Additionally, if the Hatian had ever been close enough to affect Sylar's powers during his 5 year reign as President Nathan Petrelli, wouldn't that have cancelled Sylar's shape-shifting abilities and revealed him for who he really was?

That last part is wild speculation, but the Hatian's role didn't seem to be all that well explained. Well, he seems to be in league with Mrs. Petrelli, so I assume that he would work for her "son" when he became president.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

That really does raise a good point. I was always under (the apparently mistaken) impression that the Hatian's powers only blocked mental powers. That is clearly wrong. It would seem that if the Hatian ever got near Sylar that Sylar's powers would be cancelled out. It seems like a pretty effective way of dealing with him.

Additionally, if the Hatian had ever been close enough to affect Sylar's powers during his 5 year reign as President Nathan Petrelli, wouldn't that have cancelled Sylar's shape-shifting abilities and revealed him for who he really was?

That last part is wild speculation, but the Hatian's role didn't seem to be all that well explained. Well, he seems to be in league with Mrs. Petrelli, so I assume that he would work for her "son" when he became president.

Could be the Haitian has to direct his powers towards someone?

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by Celeval

Could be the Haitian has to direct his powers towards someone?

Wouldn't that mean he can only direct it towards one person? Or are you saying he has to see them, whether it be a group of people all in one spot or just one person?

In any case, it still doesn't explain why the Haitian isn't used to kill sylar. He was used by Bennet when they had him under their control so the company must know the Haitian can "silence" Sylar.

[MikeVic]

In the future, it looked like the Haitian was working for Nathan, Mrs. Petrelli, etc. In the "past" or current timeline, it seems like the Haitian sided more with Bennett.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

In the future, it looked like the Haitian was working for Nathan....

Which is weird because wouldn't he "unmask" Nathan as Sylar whenver the two were near eachother, as someone already mentioned.

[Bee]

I'm pretty sure the Haitian doesn't have to see someone or concentrate to use his powers. In earlier episodes he blocked Matt from reading HRG's mind while out in the hallway during an interrogation (no line of sight) and also at one point when Matt was in a car following HRG when they didn't know he was around he still couldn't read his mind because of the Haitian (so I assume he wasn't concentrating to block Matt's powers since he didn't know he was there).

[Travis]

I would still go with the Haitian only being able to block mental powers (as he didn't stop Nathan from flying away earlier this season). That could have been by choice (if he can control it to that extent). I don't know if it's been stated exactly how the shapeshifting/mirage power works, whether it's mental or somehow physical, but just another point that will be glossed over and likely never really answered. The one thing I'm noticing more and more is that the writers came up with some cool powers, but perhaps didn't realize at the time just how powerful they were making some of these guys and how hard it would be to have storylines that you couldn't plow a truck through because of their capabilities.

The good part being that if the show wasn't any good, people wouldn't even bother analyzing it enough to discuss them all, but I'm hoping that in season two that they cut these way down.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Which is weird because wouldn't he "unmask" Nathan as Sylar whenver the two were near eachother, as someone already mentioned.

I think he may have to actively use his powers though to block the powers of others and if he was working for Nathan why would he or anyone else suspect that Nathan was really Sylar? Even if they knew Sylar killed the girl and took her power they would have to first believe that Sylar didn't die in the explosion and second that they couldn't trust anyone because anyone could be Sylar.

The more its used the less I like the fact that they brought in the shapeshifting character. Its just far too convienient for them to use to explain any twist in the story. That's probably been the only thing about the show I haven't liked yet.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Travis

I would still go with the Haitian only being able to block mental powers (as he didn't stop Nathan from flying away earlier this season). That could have been by choice (if he can control it to that extent). I don't know if it's been stated exactly how the shapeshifting/mirage power works, whether it's mental or somehow physical, but just another point that will be glossed over and likely never really answered. The one thing I'm noticing more and more is that the writers came up with some cool powers, but perhaps didn't realize at the time just how powerful they were making some of these guys and how hard it would be to have storylines that you couldn't plow a truck through because of their capabilities.

The good part being that if the show wasn't any good, people wouldn't even bother analyzing it enough to discuss them all, but I'm hoping that in season two that they cut these way down.

The way I would guess the Hatian's powers work are that he does have to "focus" his muting powers on people to have them work. There is a range to his ability, but when he concentrates on those within his range (even if he can't see them), then he can cancel out their powers.

For example, Parkman tells the Hatian that Hiro and Peter are coming, so he sort of focuses on them and once they are within range... no powers. Same with Parkman in the interrogation room. It also explains how Nathan got away from him and Bennet in Vegas. The Hatian appears to be working for Mrs. Petrelli, so it's possible that he purposely allowed Nathan to escape by not focusing to cancel his powers.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

The way I would guess the Hatian's powers work are that he does have to "focus" his muting powers on people to have them work. There is a range to his ability, but when he concentrates on those within his range (even if he can't see them), then he can cancel out their powers.

For example, Parkman tells the Hatian that Hiro and Peter are coming, so he sort of focuses on them and once they are within range... no powers. Same with Parkman in the interrogation room. It also explains how Nathan got away from him and Bennet in Vegas. The Hatian appears to be working for Mrs. Petrelli, so it's possible that he purposely allowed Nathan to escape by not focusing to cancel his powers.

To hit a different hole then, wouldn't HRG have realized something was up at that point? I know they really didn't ever deal with the fallout of HRG's figuring out that the Haitian wasn't always following his instructions (not wiping Claire), but one has to assume that HRG would know what the Haitian can do, and obviously he doesn't have to know what another person's power is to cancel it, yet they knew Nathan had powers, why would the Haitian not have his own power active in that situation.

If that is the case, we should have at least gotten a bit of a teaser of HRG giving the Haitian a bit of lecture or at least wondering why the Haitian wouldn't have been doing his job.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Travis

one has to assume that HRG would know what the Haitian can do, and obviously he doesn't have to know what another person's power is to cancel it,

Did we ever establish this? If we haven't, it's entirely plausible the Haitian has to know what and who he's trying to block from happening.

Also, it's been like 3-4 months since the encounter in Vegas, but were HRG/Haitian definitely after Nathan because they knew he had powers, or were they after him trying to figure out what he was doing around Linderman?