The OFFICIAL 2008-09 NHL Playoffs Thread

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

Kris Draper is a baby.

Come now. If we're going to be making excuses for things that happened because of the media swarming, the emotions of it all and general chaos of the moment, I think it's also fair to cut Draper a little slack as well.

All in all, it's a tempest in a tea pot.

[Logan]

How was this not an issue for every other Stanley Cup winning captain in the last decade?

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Sportsmanship? That's too bad.

I did not mean it that way, but I do get your point. It isn't really sportsmanship when so many do it out of obligation, is it? We don't know how many do it out of sportsmanship, or because they feel pressure to conform. I don't know what was up with Crosby, I am just questioning this idea that lining up and shaking hands is a display of good sportsmanship.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

Kris Draper is a baby.

I happen to know that Nick Lidstrom has a masterful control of the english language. If it was so bad, and Lidstrom was so upset about it, couldn't he speak for himself and keep his dog locked up? Nick is a future hall of famer, and can handle these kinds of issues on his own.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yeah, I guess I lean this way as well. I will say it's one more drop in the deserved criticism bucket for Sid the Kid, though. Crosby is well known for whining for calls and usually avoiding the rough stuff, still lives with Mario despite making a ton of money, and now for being late to the handshake line after winning the Cup.

IMO, all of this, except the whining crap, which will doubtless continue, is a sign of his age and maturity issues. It will get better as he gets older, but of course, right now, he's still really a kid.

Some guys don't act like this at a young age. Getzlaf comes to mind. Yzerman back in the day. But they're probably more the exception than the rule.

I think Crosby should call Lidstrom and apologize for not going straight to him. That's about all that's needed, IMO. That and hoping Crosby remembers this if he is ever in this same situation again, to handle it better.

I am with you on the phone call. But honestly, if he was with the media, and Lidstrom really thought it was important, skate over to Crosby.

Draper-- I'd like to think had he had a few hours to think about it, he would have worded it differently. But, just like a faceoff, Draper was jumping early.

However, the bolded part...if you are saying rough stuff to mean the "dirty areas" of the ice...I have to question if you watched any of the playoffs. Outside of the first goal in game 1 vs the Caps, none of Crosby's 15 goals was further than 8 feet from the net. He receives and initiates more contact than probably any player in the league.

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

Come on man. It had nothing to do with poor sportsmanship. The guy was swarmed by tons of media and was celebrating with his teammates and coaches. The kid is 21 years old and just won the Stanley Cup. He shook some hands and the NBC idiots kept grabbing him for interviews. Why would he shake hands last year after losing the Cup but this year snub the Red Wings after winning it? Kris Draper is a baby.

[stevew]

The beauty of rum's diatribe is that it could easily serve as a "fill in the blank" mad lib type statement for 90 percent of superstars across major sports.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm not sure I'd really want to shake hands with Crosby. After his Ric Flair imitation against Atlanta back in December, we really don't know where his hands have been.

He's a punk ass little bitch. A talented p.a.l.b., but that doesn't make him any less of one. The only time I really want to see him is if he's lying on the ice bleeding, preferably profusely.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm not sure I'd really want to shake hands with Crosby. After his Ric Flair imitation against Atlanta back in December, we really don't know where his hands have been.

He's a punk ass little bitch. A talented p.a.l.b., but that doesn't make him any less of one. The only time I really want to see him is if he's lying on the ice bleeding, preferably profusely.

No, Jon. Tell us how you really feel.

[chrisj]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

If you watched all the post game, he was the first person grabbed by about 30 media people. Then he was in line. He talked to Franzen for awhile (assume the hit).

If he shook nobodies hand, you have an argument. That isn't the case.

Where was Lidstrom? If he felt so strongly about shaking Crosby's hand, why didn't he circle back around to catch Crosby after he entered the line?

And where was Draper during this too? You have a message you want to get across, go tell him yourself.

I was thinking the same thing - no Crosby wasn't first in line because we was mobbed by media. It looked like he left the media as soon as he realized he was going to miss the hand shake.

People should get over it.

[Suburban Rhythm]

The more I think about this...Lidstrom avoided Crosby!!! That's right, Nick probably paid off Pierre McGuire to go over to Crosby first, got at the head of the handshake line, and hightailed it out of there before Crosby ever made it back to the line.

I never saw Lemieux or Francis pull that crap in a Pens uniform...but I guess cause they never lost in the Finals.

[Carman Bulldog]

I agree that people need to get over it.

It seems almost as if there are some sour grapes on Detroit's part. In my opinion (and someone questioned why this hasn't been an issue in the past), is that Detroit was extremely fast to lineup and get out of there. Obviously, being in that situation, that is the first thing you want to do. However, most times, teams have had to hang around waiting by their bench or their blueline for a short period while the other team gets the hugging and initial celebration out of the way.

Like I mentioned, that was by far the quickest post final handshake I can ever recall and in my opinion, somewhat unprofessional on the part of the Wings, considering the number of times they have been on the other side of that situation.

The ironic thing about it all is that the last time the Wings did not win the Cup (2007), Chris Chelios skipped the entire handshake against the Ducks, later claiming he was "too emotional". It's funny, but I don't recall Lidstrom or Draper bitching Chelios out in the media for that.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

Come on man. It had nothing to do with poor sportsmanship. The guy was swarmed by tons of media and was celebrating with his teammates and coaches. The kid is 21 years old and just won the Stanley Cup. He shook some hands and the NBC idiots kept grabbing him for interviews. Why would he shake hands last year after losing the Cup but this year snub the Red Wings after winning it? Kris Draper is a baby.

I don't think it was an intentional snub at all........but.....as a captain you have certain responsibilities,Crosby should know that it is his job no matter what happens to be first in line to shake hands with the other team.

It should not take away from the Pens win or from Crosby himself,but hockey is known for codes and this is one of those codes that is always followed.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

I happen to know that Nick Lidstrom has a masterful control of the english language. If it was so bad, and Lidstrom was so upset about it, couldn't he speak for himself and keep his dog locked up? Nick is a future hall of famer, and can handle these kinds of issues on his own.

Lidstrom does not handle things like this in public. He is a lot like Yzerman, a quiet leader on and off the ice. Whether he was bothered by this or not is irrelevant, he would never call out Crosby in public. Not sure why Draper made his comment except that he was probably still angry for losing. It happens and we move on.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

I happen to know that Nick Lidstrom has a masterful control of the english language. If it was so bad, and Lidstrom was so upset about it, couldn't he speak for himself and keep his dog locked up? Nick is a future hall of famer, and can handle these kinds of issues on his own.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Draper acting like a bitch about it (hence me calling him Nick's dog, a female one at that).

[Pumpy Tudors]

To me, this is pretty simple:

You're the captain of a team. You get in the line and shake everybody's hand. I mean, there's a line right there. Get in the line. It's not like you need to skate around and find all 20 players and shake their hands. It's just what you do. If you have a reason not to do it, when you get called out for it, explain yourself. Until Crosby gives an explanation about this, he's been as disrespectful to his opponents as anyone else who doesn't shake a hand in the line. No, he doesn't have to explain anything, but he deserves all the shit he gets until he does explain.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

However, the bolded part...if you are saying rough stuff to mean the "dirty areas" of the ice...I have to question if you watched any of the playoffs. Outside of the first goal in game 1 vs the Caps, none of Crosby's 15 goals was further than 8 feet from the net. He receives and initiates more contact than probably any player in the league.

No, "rough stuff" is fitting, putting in the hits, standing up for your teammates, getting gritty. Crosby can score from anywhere, inside 8 feet or out. Doesn't mean I would him at my back in an alley.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

The beauty of rum's diatribe is that it could easily serve as a "fill in the blank" mad lib type statement for 90 percent of superstars across major sports.

You have my permission to clip and save.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

The ironic thing about it all is that the last time the Wings did not win the Cup (2007), Chris Chelios skipped the entire handshake against the Ducks, later claiming he was "too emotional". It's funny, but I don't recall Lidstrom or Draper bitching Chelios out in the media for that.

I don't recall even the Ducks really complaining much about that. Although that's probably because no one on the team really wanted to shake that fuckhead's hand anyway.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

No, "rough stuff" is fitting, putting in the hits, standing up for your teammates, getting gritty. Crosby can score from anywhere, inside 8 feet or out. Doesn't mean I would him at my back in an alley.

Again, I'll respectfully disagree. Watch him below the goal line. He initiates the contact. He grinds. He is, IMO, the closest thing to Forsberg in the league right now.

[Dr. Sak]

I refuse to get into any argument where I would defend Crosby.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I refuse to get into any argument where I would defend Crosby.

Please do it. Just one sentence, even. I need a new signature.

[Dr. Sak]

I'm afraid my keyboard would light on fire.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You have my permission to clip and save.

Yeah, I guess I lean this way as well. I will say it's one more drop in the deserved criticism bucket for Chief Rum, though. Chief is well known for whining to mods and usually avoiding the rough stuff, still lives in his parents basement making no money, and now for being late to thread criticizing the handshake line after winning the Cup.

IMO, all of this, except the whining crap, which will doubtless continue, is a sign of his age and maturity issues. It will get better as he gets older, but of course, right now, he's still really a kid.

Some guys don't act like this at a young age. Honolulu_Blue comes to mind. Maple Leafs back in the day. But they're probably more the exception than the rule.

I think Chief Rum should call Suburban Rhythm and apologize for not going straight to him. That's about all that's needed, IMO. That and hoping Chief remembers this if he is ever in this same situation again, to handle it better.



SI

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I refuse to get into any argument where I would defend Crosby.

This itself might be enough for me to feel vindicated...but please, go on.



Sak, are you coming into town for the parade tomorrow?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Yeah, I guess I lean this way as well. I will say it's one more drop in the deserved criticism bucket for Chief Rum, though. Chief is well known for whining to mods and usually avoiding the rough stuff, still lives in his parents basement making no money, and now for being late to thread criticizing the handshake line after winning the Cup.

IMO, all of this, except the whining crap, which will doubtless continue, is a sign of his age and maturity issues. It will get better as he gets older, but of course, right now, he's still really a kid.

Some guys don't act like this at a young age. Honolulu_Blue comes to mind. Maple Leafs back in the day. But they're probably more the exception than the rule.

I think Chief Rum should call Suburban Rhythm and apologize for not going straight to him. That's about all that's needed, IMO. That and hoping Chief remembers this if he is ever in this same situation again, to handle it better.



SI

You want to be my Draper?

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

This itself might be enough for me to feel vindicated...but please, go on.



Sak, are you coming into town for the parade tomorrow?

I would rather attend the Steelers parade. So no way in hell would I be downtown tomorrow.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Draper acting like a bitch about it (hence me calling him Nick's dog, a female one at that).

How is he "acting like a bitch about it", as you say? Because he made a comment about it?

In any case, he is a bitch with four stanley cup rings.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Again, I'll respectfully disagree. Watch him below the goal line. He initiates the contact. He grinds. He is, IMO, the closest thing to Forsberg in the league right now.

No disrespect SR, as I generally like your posts. But this one is a bit over the top. I hate Forsberg but he did play physical. I have yet to see Sid get near someone on the opposing team unless he has his stick out in front of him first.

Just calling it how I see it.

[RomaGoth]

Anybody see this article about Lidstrom?

Lidstrom admits having surgery during playoffs; Datsyuk quiet about injury | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Anybody see this article about Lidstrom?

Lidstrom admits having surgery during playoffs; Datsyuk quiet about injury | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press

So maybe Lidstrom didn't have the balls to shake Crosby's hand?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

No disrespect SR, as I generally like your posts. But this one is a bit over the top. I hate Forsberg but he did play physical. I have yet to see Sid get near someone on the opposing team unless he has his stick out in front of him first.

Just calling it how I see it.

Same as with Chief, I'll respectfully disagree again. I have to question how much of the playoffs you watched, or hell, the last 3 seasons, if you don't think he's physical.

Are you talking being physical after the whistle, and getting his stick up?

I am talking during the play...Crosby is one of the best in the league behind the net. He nearly always comes out of there when it's a 50/50 puck, and initiates contact.

I know that's not as cool as as Ovechkin flying around like an idiot and hoping to run someone, but it's way more productive.

I will give you that he's not exactly like Forsberg-- Crosby is a superior goal scorer to Forsberg.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

How is he "acting like a bitch about it", as you say? Because he made a comment about it?

Was he complaining to the media about it? You tell me. Why do your talking through the press? Wait until the NHLPA gets together and talk to him about it. I doubt that he couldn't find a way to get in touch with Crosby if it really meant a lot to him. Instead, he thought he would snipe through the media (obviously the way real men handle these situations, apparently).

In any case, he is a bitch with four stanley cup rings.

Apparently having 4 cup rings doesn't make as much difference as we might have thought.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Was he complaining to the media about it? You tell me. Why do your talking through the press? Wait until the NHLPA gets together and talk to him about it. I doubt that he couldn't find a way to get in touch with Crosby if it really meant a lot to him. Instead, he thought he would snipe through the media (obviously the way real men handle these situations, apparently).



Apparently having 4 cup rings doesn't make as much difference as we might have thought.

I guess you win.

[Tekneek]

Also, it seems quite hypocritical to complain about a lack of sportsmanship by whining to the press, doesn't it? Would a real sportsman complain about others, or just take care of his own business?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Also, it seems quite hypocritical to complain about a lack of sportsmanship by whining to the press, doesn't it? Would a real sportsman complain about others, or just take care of his own business?

Yeah you are right. Crosby never whines about anything. Like I said, I guess you win.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Same as with Chief, I'll respectfully disagree again. I have to question how much of the playoffs you watched, or hell, the last 3 seasons, if you don't think he's physical.

Are you talking being physical after the whistle, and getting his stick up?

I am talking during the play...Crosby is one of the best in the league behind the net. He nearly always comes out of there when it's a 50/50 puck, and initiates contact.

I know that's not as cool as as Ovechkin flying around like an idiot and hoping to run someone, but it's way more productive.

I will give you that he's not exactly like Forsberg-- Crosby is a superior goal scorer to Forsberg.

Hitting. Fighting. Doing the dirty work--on both ends of the ice. Gutting it through injuries, like in the third period of Cup clinching games for instance. As RomaGoth said, get near someone on the opposing team without his stick in front of him.

Being physical is more than playing within eight feet of the goal. Physical doesn't stop at your blueline, and doesn't disappear behind the goal lines, nor does it go away when the other team has the puck.

It's fine to respectfully disagree with us, but don't then, drop the "I have to question if you're watching the playoffs" line, because that is questioning a lot of things you can't assume, including some things that we might construe as being insulting to us. It is possible to watch the same playoffs and come to different conclusions, you know. I would respectfully accept that if I were you, and not do anything except agree to disagree.

[chrisj]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Yeah you are right. Crosby never whines about anything. Like I said, I guess you win.

I don't follow the Eastern Conference much - but does Crosby really whine more than any other NHL player, or do we just notice it more since the camera is always on him?

It's an honest question - I see any number of NHL players who are always off complaining to the refs...

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Yeah you are right. Crosby never whines about anything. Like I said, I guess you win.

I wasn't talking about Crosby. I was talking about Draper. I thought you knew who I was talking about, but apparently not.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Was he complaining to the media about it? You tell me. Why do your talking through the press? Wait until the NHLPA gets together and talk to him about it. I doubt that he couldn't find a way to get in touch with Crosby if it really meant a lot to him. Instead, he thought he would snipe through the media (obviously the way real men handle these situations, apparently).

I am sure Lidstrom and Crosby will talk, possibly later this week at the NHL awards.

Knowing he would have no opportunity to see Crosby at the awards ceremony, Draper had to get his in now.

Anyway, here is the CBC feed of the final minutes of the game followed by the on ice celebration and handshakes.

YouTube - Final Seconds Penguins/Red Wings Stanley Cup Final, Handshakes & Conn Smythe Trophy HNiC 6/12/2009

At 5:09, you see Hal Gill as the last player in the Pens line, at that point, reaching Lidstrom.

At 5:40, more guys lining up (Fleury, Satan) shaking hands with Lidstrom.

6:05 Hossa and Talbot shake hands, looks like the end of both lines.

6:15, Crosby is skating over to the line. 6:25, Franzen and Crosby meet, Zetterberg in line behind Franzen.

Here is the NBC feed-

(complete with Pittsburgh's Mike Lange's call-- it's no "Lord Stanley, Lord Stanley, bring me the brandy!", but it will do)

YouTube - 2009 Stanley Cup Finals - Penguins @ Red Wings (Game 7, 06/12/2009) (Part 2)

3:54 you can see Lidstrom leaving the ice.
4:27, Crosby shaking hands with Babcock.

Should Crosby have been in the line? Sure. But "he waited and waited"? Get a grip.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

I wasn't talking about Crosby. I was talking about Draper. I thought you knew who I was talking about, but apparently not.

I was comparing the whining done by Crosby against the whining done by Draper. Yeah, I did know who you were talking about.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I was comparing the whining done by Crosby against the whining done by Draper. Yeah, I did know who you were talking about.

Ok, but not sure I see the relevance. None of my points really had anything to do with Crosby.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Regardless of whether Draper brought it up to the media or not, shouldn't Crosby have been in that line? Or does it not matter?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Regardless of whether Draper brought it up to the media or not, shouldn't Crosby have been in that line? Or does it not matter?

You know, Max Talbot was in that line. You know why?

Because that's what superstars do.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You know, Max Talbot was in that line. You know why?

Because that's what superstars do.

Max Talbot is a superstar.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Max Talbot is a superstar.

Did I not just say this?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Did I not just say this?

You did, but it needs to be repeated so everyone knows that Max Talbot is a superstar.

Max Talbot is a superstar.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

You did, but it needs to be repeated so everyone knows that Max Talbot is a superstar.

Max Talbot is a superstar.

Do you know what would happen if Max Talbot and Colin White ever met in an on-ice hit?

That's right, hole in the Universe.

Why? Because that's what happens with superstars (and pure evil).

[Carman Bulldog]

Those video's confirm my original suspicions that some Wings were early lining up and getting out of there. Almost exactly 1:30 after the game was over (and that's final buzzer), Lidstrom was lined up looking to get out of there.

Respect is a two way street and those Detroit veterans displayed a major lack of it with their hurry up and leave attitude. Obviously nobody wants to stick around while the other team celebrates, but it's your job to wait it out and allow the other team a short opportunity to embrace, especially a young team winning it's first cup.

Kudo's to the Penguin players who recognized that the Wings were lined up quick and got out there to shake hands. Kudos also to the Wings players that stuck around that extra minute.

If anyone is to blame for this situation though, it's the guys such as Draper and Lidstrom, who should both know better, and Crosby said pretty much the same.

Crosby also suggested that perhaps Lidstrom did not wait that long before the leaving the ice, recalling that, "I didn't feel like waiting around, either" when the Penguins lost the Stanley Cup to the Red Wings in 2008.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Regardless of whether Draper brought it up to the media or not, shouldn't Crosby have been in that line? Or does it not matter?

Probably. However, we know from the past that players have skipped that and it is nothing that is "required." And to clarify, Crosby didn't skip it. He was just late.